Turpins 2- California Torture House (Graphic content discussed)

[Lillybee]

Perhaps when and if the children feel comfortable enough to talk, we may find out the extent of their abuse. I have a feeling that what we know now is only the tip of the iceberg.

[iweartanktops]

3 hours ago, Maggie Mae said:

I'm just impressed you can stand reading Websleuths! It's so confusing to navigate and all the signatures drive me batty. I tried to follow a missing family in my area there and it was so disappointing when the thread would blow up with "Prayers!" So much false hope that something actually happened in the case. 

I use Tapatalk. Don't have to deal with the signatures, or whatever else. I've never even used the classic site. 

[HarryPotterFan]

Finally caught up. I’ve been keeping up with this tragedy while getting through these pages.

On the topic of one of the older Turpin survivor’s former classmates...wouldn’t a teacher have reported a child who was chronically filthy and under fed? That’s one thing that really struck me about his story about her. Or maybe the teacher did report it, and that’s why the kids were pulled from school. Maybe monsters realized that if their kids have contact with other kids and adults, they’ll realize the way they are treated is unacceptable and adults will say something. Who knows.

On 1/19/2018 at 9:13 AM, Howl said:

Some news reports indicated that some of the kids were in such bad shape that it was feared they could go into shock and die as they were being give IV nutrients and hydration.  I have to wonder if any children DID die and it was never reported. 

I saw one reference to the fact that the parents were hoarders.  Several years ago I posted some information on parallels between animal hoarders and child hoarders.  Many animal hoarders retain animals in absolutely horrible conditions, but somehow think they are doing the right thing for the animals. 

I can't right now, but later today I'll try to find those links. 

I’ve been wondering if the kids/kidults are even thinner now then they were in those vow renewal photos. It’s scary to think about. There’s the way too thin those kids were in those photos, and maybe people who see them can justify it somehow and not see that the kids are starved - like maybe people like the Elvis impersonator thought it was genetic or they all had fast metabolism (which is pure speculation). Then there’s the thin you see that scares you to your very core. The haunting type of thin, where you know something is incredibly wrong. Like seeing photos from concentration camps. Or in that time in high school when other girls on the cross country team and I noticed in the locker room another girl was so thin it scared the crap out of us. We asked the team captain to talk to the coach for us, because we knew she needed help. I mean the kids/kidults are clearly starved in those photos...

On 1/20/2018 at 12:23 AM, FecundFundieFundus said:

Engineers are frequently a bunch of weirdos, yeah. Usually very nice weirdos who will happily chat with you, play pedantic, complicated board games, teach your kids how to play MtG, etc. Not that I'm biased

My brother is an engineer, so yes, engineers are weirdos.

[Sideways]

9 hours ago, JillyO said:

Thank you!! These people have committed heinous crimes, so maybe focus on that. I really don't understand why their apprently completely consensual sex life should be of any relevance to the public.

That info bomb on their sex life is actually relevant, wouldn't you think?  While DT and LT were off swinging somewhere in Alabama, they left their children HOME ALONE.  At least 11 kids, fending for themselves, perhaps shackled during that time :(.  

Also this departure from their religious upbringing, and the introduction of alcohol and extramarital sex in their lives, may have had other sordid ramifications for their children.  Did Louise become an alcoholic?  Did some of the children have fetal alcohol syndrome?   Did this experimentation with sexuality lead DT and LT to sexually abuse the kids?   It's all more brush strokes added to this hideous canvas.

[Beermeet]

@upkacrane

I second what @FilleMondaine said.  I may skip over wall o' texts about things that don't interest me much but never when a fellow FJ member shares their pain or their story.  Because I do care and I honor your words you felt safe sharing with us.  If it brings the poster some relief to write it, I'm genuinely happy for you.  

[nausicaa]

4 hours ago, Maggie Mae said:

I'm just impressed you can stand reading Websleuths! It's so confusing to navigate and all the signatures drive me batty. I tried to follow a missing family in my area there and it was so disappointing when the thread would blow up with "Prayers!" So much false hope that something actually happened in the case. 

I only go there when I'm really obsessed with something. The signatures are pretty obnoxious, and I'm not quite sure who they think they are helping with those pastel manifestos. 

[stabbycat]

17 minutes ago, Sideways said:

That info bomb on their sex life is actually relevant, wouldn't you think?  While DT and LT were off swinging somewhere in Alabama, they left their children HOME ALONE.  At least 11 kids, fending for themselves, perhaps shackled during that time :(.  

Also this departure from their religious upbringing, and the introduction of alcohol and extramarital sex in their lives, may have had other sordid ramifications for their children.  Did Louise become an alcoholic?  Did some of the children have fetal alcohol syndrome?   Did this experimentation with sexuality lead DT and LT to sexually abuse the kids?   It's all more brush strokes added to this hideous canvas.

I can't remember where I read it (maybe it was something LT's sister said), but they were acting like they were going away soon. I just wonder how or if they were fed during the last trip, because one of the neighbors who checked out their old house said there were locks on everything.

 

Edit: found the link on them leaving... maybe they knew the cops were coming? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5283091/Turpins-said-leaving-town-hours-arrest.html

[SilverBeach]

4 hours ago, lilith said:

Not particularly holy or righteous, I just find the designations cringey. We are all adults here, we can all see that atrocious acts have been committed, we don’t need to take it upon ourselves to use language to exclude the perpetrators from the human race. The tragedy is that humans do commit these acts.

You often see this in comments on other child abuse cases - “I refuse to call her a mother, she doesn’t deserve that title”. Mother isn’t an earned title, it’s a statement of biological function or, in the case of adoption or step parents, legal designation. We might like to think that mothers don’t hurt their children, but they do and we can’t hide from that by manipulating language.

Its just something I feel strongly about.

And I appreciate that you feel strongly about it, I just don't share your sentiment. I don't think it's manipulating language to not address a horrific person by an honorific title.  And even if it is, so what?  Look, we know these monsters are human, which is precisely what makes these acts perpetrated upon the innocent so hard to bear.  I wish my words could exclude them from the human race, but  my words don't have that kind of power.  Nobody is hiding from anything.  Nothing cringey at all here to me, I find the reactions of myself and others understandable and not something to be criticized. 

[EmCatlyn]

8 hours ago, Curious said:

Welcome back @EmCatlyn!

I doubt the parents can make money off their "story."  There are laws that prevent people who have been convicted from making money off their crimes.   The kids, on the other hand, could probably make some decent money with a book, but who knows if any of them have the cognitive ability to do something like that

I hope they can all recover to the point where they are happy and can live as independent lives as possible.

I know that they can’t legally profit from telling the story of the abuse (or their version that it wasn’t abuse) if convicted, but I worry that they could find ways to profit from their notoriety (or at least Louise could).  Maybe not.  

[Crazy Enough to Join]

My personal theory is that unlike the classic abusive male patriarch situations that FJers study every day, M2 was actually the initiator of abuse in the Turpin household. Now of course both parents are depraved or they would have called the cops on their spouse. But my theory is that the abuse was all M2's idea. This torture case has been "weird" since the beginning and not matched the classic Ariel Castro holding those 3 girls captive style cases. My theory is that this case is different because, unlike the Ariel Castro style cases we've been discussing, it's been a female perpetrator rather than a male perpetrator dreaming up the depravity. Even the abuse pictures on their FB are very "female" oriented. I'm genderstereotyping here, but normally women are more into the everyone dresses up for a vow renewal, or family photos at Disney, or expecting a new sibling pics. Ariel Castro sure wouldn't have included cutesy vow renewals in his abuse portfolio. I think with how our culture talks about doting moms, it's hard for our culture to even entertain the notion of a female perpetrator being the leader.

[BlackSheep]

1 hour ago, stabbycat said:

I can't remember where I read it (maybe it was something LT's sister said), but they were acting like they were going away soon. I just wonder how or if they were fed during the last trip, because one of the neighbors who checked out their old house said there were locks on everything.

Edit: found the link on them leaving... maybe they knew the cops were coming? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5283091/Turpins-said-leaving-town-hours-arrest.html

I believe that it’s not a coincidence that they said goodbye to a friend before moving, and the very next day a daughter escaped to get help. There was speculation (here? in a news story?) that something specific may have spurred the daughter to act on that particular day, after planning for so long.

We know that previously they had moved away suddenly, leaving everything behind, according to people who bought their previous homes. The media has reported that photos were left behind - a photo of a bed with a rope on it at one house and an envelope full of photos of the kids at another house. Who moves and doesn’t take family photos with them? Deranged, abusive hoarders with financial problems who are in a big ol’ hurry, that’s who. It’s possible that the kids didn’t know until the last minute that they were moving. But maybe this time, the kids caught on and suddenly, the time to act was now.

Eventually we’ll know for sure. For now, that’s what my gut is telling me.

[Coy Koi]

20 minutes ago, Crazy Enough to Join said:

My personal theory is that unlike the classic abusive male patriarch situations that FJers study every day, M2 was actually the initiator of abuse in the Turpin household. Now of course both parents are depraved or they would have called the cops on their spouse. But my theory is that the abuse was all M2's idea.

He's the one being charged with molesting one of his daughters. I'm guessing that part was his idea.

[EmCatlyn]

8 hours ago, Imrlgoddess said:

...Being that there are so many of them at varying ages...what are the chances that one or more has the propensity to be this level abuser themselves?  I sincerely hope that with the amount of professional help they are receiving, that chance is slim.   ...

I am more concerned that they will be susceptible to being abused again than that they will become abusers.  I don’t think any of them is going to be unfortunate enough to fall in the power of another torturer, but I could see them being bullied, humiliated, being taken advantage of, etc.  They don’t know “normal.”  They probably don’t trust easily, but they also seem to have been conditioned to compliance.  

Every time I hear how “relieved” the kids are, and how nice and polite and so forth they are, I wonder what they are really thinking and feeling.  Yes, I am sure they are relieved not to be hungry and tortured, but I would be surprised if they are all comfortable in their new surroundings and unafraid of the future.

They have so much to learn, so much to heal from.  Not finding romantic love and living all their lives with siblings may happen to a few of them, but that would be better than ending up married to a bully or being taken advantage by people who want to cash in on their story etc.

It is very sad that most of them will have some problems all their lives, but we can hope that they will get help so that they can function and experience happiness in spite of what their parents did to them.

[Beermeet]

11 minutes ago, BlackSheep said:

I believe that it’s not a coincidence that they said goodbye to a friend before moving, and the very next day a daughter escaped to get help. There was speculation (here? in a news story?) that something specific may have spurred the daughter to act on that particular day, after planning for so long.

We know that previously they had moved away suddenly, leaving everything behind, according to people who bought their previous homes. The media has reported that photos were left behind - a photo of a bed with a rope on it at one house and an envelope full of photos of the kids at another house. Who moves and doesn’t take family photos with them? Deranged, abusive hoarders with financial problems who are in a big ol’ hurry, that’s who. It’s possible that the kids didn’t know until the last minute that they were moving. But maybe this time, the kids caught on and suddenly, the time to act was now.

Eventually we’ll know for sure. For now, that’s what my gut is telling me.

I keep trying to guess where they were going.   Were they leaving just the two of them and were going to leave the kids tied up to die?  Or, all of them to who knows where?  I can't imagine the monsters getting all those near death kids into a van and moving them.  Maybe the two acted because they were about to be tied and left with no chance.  I suppose we will found out that detail, because it seems important to the story.

[EmCatlyn]

8 hours ago, justoneoftwo said:

About them having separate lawyers . ..  do we know her lawyer is being paid?  Many states have law firms on call for when the public defender's office has a conflict (i.e. there are two defendants).  They also may not really have been given much choice about having two different lawyers.  Most lawyers I know would insist that they couldn't represent both parties in this type of case.

Basically, her lawyer may also be a public defender, just from the conflicts list.  I wouldn't read much into the separate lawyers or one appearing to be not free unless we know it is the case.

Thanks for addressing this.  I don’t know much about how criminal law works in spite of being a Law and Order fan from way back.    I would have thought if both lawyers were provided by the state (or would that be county) the news would not have identified L’s lawyer as her attorney and D’s lawyer as the public defender.  But what you say makes sense.

I am sort of wondering if one of them will turn witness against the other to get a better deal (and if the DA would make such a deal).  It would be interesting if they were ready to throw each other to the wolves and even more interesting if they actually showed “loyalty” of some sort to each other.  But I would prefer it if we could just put them in prison for life with a minimum amount of drama and publicity.  

 

 

[Rachel333]

People love stories of terrible mothers. As soon as this story broke I saw people saying that they think this was all the mother's fault or that they think the mother is more guilty because she had to go against her maternal instinct. I don't think there's any reason to think that right now, though.

I might have missed this being discussed, but according to this article one of the girls had run away before.

Quote

It has since emerged that the couple moved to California in 2011, from the Texan city Rio Vista, where they lived in a four bedroom house on a 36 acre property. 

They lived there from 2000 until the house was foreclosed 11 years later. 

Neighbour Ricky Vinyard said he walked through a double-wide trailer on the property, which the family is believed to have moved into after trashing the main house which he said was "waist-deep in filth". 

"There were dead dogs and cats in there," he told the Los Angeles Times. 

He added that he found two Chihuahuas on the property which had survived by eating waste from discarded soiled nappies heaped in the family's Ford F-150 truck.

"It seemed like that's all they ate," he said, adding that the living room in the main house that had been fashioned into a makeshift classroom and was covered in faeces and excrement. 

"Everything had locks on it: The closet had locks, the toy chest, the refrigerator," he added."There were no beds, just mattresses. There wasn't a place in that house that wasn't filthy."

Mr Vinyard also said that the Turpins kept the lights on and the blinds drawn at all hours at the home, adding that one Christmas they bought eight new children's bicycles but left them outside, unused, until they became sun bleached.

It has also emerged that after the family arrived in 2000, one of the older girls tried to escape but was eventually returned by a local resident. 

A deputy was called to the house in 2001 when the Turpins' then four-year-old daughter was bitten in the face by the family dog, which led to the girl receiving stitches in hospital and the dog being taken to a veterinarian to be put down, according to police reports.

Mr Vinyard's uncle also called the sheriff when three pigs belonging to the Turpins got loose in 2002, but Mr Vinyard said that he and his wife decided not to alert authorities about their suspicions of abuse. 

"We discussed it and we didn't want to have repercussions with them," Mr Vinyard said, citing that he would often see David Turpin in his driveway shooting cans with a pistol, aiming towards the road. I feel really guilty we didn't."

 

[ViolaSebastian]

31 minutes ago, Coy Koi said:

He's the one being charged with molesting one of his daughters. I'm guessing that part was his idea.

I'm inclined to believe he was the mastermind, although I don't discount her role in it, nor am I absolving her of responsibility. However, a man who, at 24, impregnates a 16-year-old girl, suggests to me that there is significant predatory behavior on his part. 

[Crazy Enough to Join]

34 minutes ago, Coy Koi said:

He's the one being charged with molesting one of his daughters. I'm guessing that part was his idea.

Definitely. But only once charge so far? Many of the other cases of this extreme torture that were instigated by males (again genderstereotyping here) involved enormous amounts of rape. Pardon my callousness toward molestation, (molestation is unforgiveable, of course), but it almost seems like an afterthought in the case. Like hey let's torture all 12 children for 30 years almost to the point of death, then randomly once I'll just molest one kid.

4 minutes ago, ViolaSebastian said:

I'm inclined to believe he was the mastermind, although I don't discount her role in it, nor am I absolving her of responsibility. However, a man who, at 24, impregnates a 16-year-old girl, suggests to me that there is significant predatory behavior on his part. 

Yeah all the news anchors seem to be assuming that to. Though wouldn't it be horrifyingly fascinating if she actually was the mastermind? It's interesting that the main abuse form seems to be starvation and she was denied food as a child I read somewhere. And everyone who met M1 as a youth said he had a quieter personality, engineer type. Of course, no matter who was the instigator imo they both deserve the maximum punishment. What kind of monster lets their spouse do that to their kids?

[Crazy Enough to Join]

36 minutes ago, Beermeet said:

I keep trying to guess where they were going.   Were they leaving just the two of them and were going to leave the kids tied up to die?  Or, all of them to who knows where?  I can't imagine the monsters getting all those near death kids into a van and moving them.  Maybe the two acted because they were about to be tied and left with no chance.  I suppose we will found out that detail, because it seems important to the story.

Perhaps M1 and M2 were planning on committing suicide together after killing all the children? Or maybe just killing all the children (except the baby) and moving to a new state? If those children were as close to death as the hospital employees said, I kind of doubt their torturers intended to keep them alive for much longer. Murder is the logical conclusion to that kind of torture.

[EmCatlyn]

I don’t think we can possibly know which one of the Turpin parents was “the dominant one” based on the little we know.  I am not even sure that there had to be a “dominant” one.   It is entirely possible that one of them took the lead in some things and the other one took the lead in others.   We see this in sane marriages, why not insane ones?  But really, we can’t know, and in the end it doesn’t matter.  What they did, they did together.

Regarding D having impregnated L when she was 16, as far as we know she wasn’t pregnant when they married or for a while after.  But that doesn’t mean anything.   He could still have “seduced” her and not gotten her pregnant, or she could have “seduced” him and not become pregnant.  

As for the sexual molestation charges, so far it doesn’t seem that sexual perversion was a major part of the abuse of these kids.  But we know that the children are badly traumatized and that they may not even know how to articulate what has happened to them.  We may hear a lot more eventually, or it may turn out that the one count of lewd behavior with a minor was incidental to what D really enjoyed, tying up or spanking a kid.  

Either way, it would tell us nothing about who was the “dominant” personality in the marriage.  

 

[Kayleigh83]

49 minutes ago, Crazy Enough to Join said:

Perhaps M1 and M2 were planning on committing suicide together after killing all the children? Or maybe just killing all the children (except the baby) and moving to a new state? If those children were as close to death as the hospital employees said, I kind of doubt their torturers intended to keep them alive for much longer. Murder is the logical conclusion to that kind of torture.

My instinct is also this, that they may have intended to “start over” elsewhere with the youngest child who seems to have been favoured, not starved by at all by police accounts. Maybe they meant to poison the older 12 or leave them to die.... it wouldn’t be out of character for M1 and M2. It would fit with other speculations on here about Louise’s obsession with being a young bride - starting a new life elsewhere, now having only one little toddler? Pure speculation on my part of course, but your mind goes wild when you’re confronted with a case like this. It defies understanding and a lot of what we’re left with is just trying to grapple to understand or make some sense of it. Fucking horrifying.

[ViolaSebastian]

3 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

Regarding D having impregnated L when she was 16, as far as we know she wasn’t pregnant when they married or for a while after.  But that doesn’t mean anything.   He could still have “seduced” her and not gotten her pregnant, or she could have “seduced” him and not become pregnant.  

I stand corrected. Still, I maintain that a person that age marrying a sixteen-year-old is unusual and creepy, at best. 

[Sideways]

4 hours ago, ViolaSebastian said:

I'm inclined to believe he was the mastermind, although I don't discount her role in it, nor am I absolving her of responsibility. However, a man who, at 24, impregnates a 16-year-old girl, suggests to me that there is significant predatory behavior on his part. 

Unless there was another Turpin we don't know about who older than the 29 year old, Louise would have been 20 when she gave birth to the eldest girl (Jennifer), who was 82 lbs when rescued.

[Liza]

There is a group on Facebook that is calling the Turpin story fake news.  They are homeschoolers who are afraid, no doubt, that there willl be more checks and balances because of this case.  I certainly hope so.  

[elliha]

Because I am used to kilos over pounds it wasn't until now that I typed in 82 pounds into the converter and... wow, that is tiny. My heart breaks for them. My five year old weighs about 50 pounds and she is FIVE.