Dillards 37: Tweeting like a Jackass

[VelociRapture]

1 hour ago, busdrivingmom said:

A problem is the Duggars do not live in the real world. They do not work with people who are gay, transgendered, different faiths, atheists, etc.   And they do not know how to show respect even if you dont agree.   Im more concerned at work about people doing their job than how they live outside of work (minus any criminal activities).  Didnt Jesus say love others as I have commanded (paraphrasing here)?

I just want to point out that the term "transgendered" shouldn't be used as the transgender community doesn't like it. They prefer the terms "transgender person/people" or "transgender."

(I don't want to single you out or make you feel badly - I've noticed a few people doing it too. Your's was just the most recent one I saw. I know a lot of the terminology can be a bit confusing for a lot of people and I just wanted to offer a gentle correction to help out.  )

[HarleyQuinn]

1 hour ago, singsingsing said:

Michelle's full sister is a lesbian. 

I read this as "Michelle's sister is a full lesbian" and I was about to ask wtf that was supposed to mean.

[Jilli]

I shouldn't have gone and read Dericks tweets. He's so backwards it's uncomfortable to me. If you use the wrong name and or pronouns to anyone, you aren't godly, you're an asshole.

[Palimpsest]

2 hours ago, Destiny said:

Honestly, a lot of the things that he says that you lot are considering weird are very common fundie / evangelical things. The spiritual warfare bits? Very normal. He's not having a mental breakdown, he's just fundie.

This.  With a bit of emphasis on the fundie / evangelical.  I'm nor sure why people are so shocked.  I understand disgusted, but I'm not sure why people are surprised.  

What Derick is saying is (sadly) commonplace, as are Ben's attacks against Catholics and Jeremy's attacks against gays.

A quick shoutout to @SilverBeach here.  Thanks for holding the line, my friend.

I do think we need to be very careful to distinguish between Extreme Fundamentalist Christian, Misguided Evangelical Christian, and decent people who look at the New Testament and follow Christ.  Let us not label all Christians as the bad guys.

I'm now an atheist, but I like what Jesus had to say in the NT.  He was a compassionate and understanding sort of guy.

Extreme Fundies (read Duggars, Dillards, Sewalds, and Vuolos) kinda forget that NT stuff.  It is so inconvenient if you want to be hateful.

[Million Children For Jesus]

22 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

I just want to point out that the term "transgendered" shouldn't be used as the transgender community doesn't like it. They prefer the terms "transgender person/people" or "transgender."

(I don't want to single you out or make you feel badly - I've noticed a few people doing it too. Your's was just the most recent one I saw. I know a lot of the terminology can be a bit confusing for a lot of people and I just wanted to offer a gentle correction to help out.  )

My child is a transgender person, and earlier I wrote transgendered. I hesitated because it sounded wrong, but my kids weren't home for me to ask. It's not like this is a new thing for me, it has been years, but learning the correct language takes time, mistakes are made, and old habits die hard. I know. I suck. It certainly isn't intentionally malicious.

I remember training my parents to stop calling Asians, "Oriental." I hate that I'm on the old end of the stick exasperating the young folk with my wrong words. My kids actually made a set of flash cards for me. I had no idea there were so many words related to gender and sexual orientation.

Despite my limited vocabulary, when talking to other parents of transgender kids, I never had a hard time or any acceptance issues, whereas a lot of them did. It really didn't phase me, except some safety concerns, and collectively as a family, we have had almost zero social fallout. 

Things like Trump winning and Derick's tweet are wake up calls that millions of people don't accept, and even hate, my family. Really, for no reason. We literally haven't done anything to provoke or offend any of them. My child is not possessed by demons or whatever invisible forces Derick thinks he's fighting. FFS, it's so ridiculous. 

[apandaaries]

51 minutes ago, Million Children For Jesus said:

I remember training my parents to stop calling Asians, "Oriental." I hate that I'm on the old end of the stick exasperating the young folk with my wrong words. My kids actually made a set of flash cards for me. I had no idea there were so many words related to gender and sexual orientation.

I love this.  And you're right: it can be a bewildering array of new terms and information.  Twenty years ago, I had an idea that there were androgen-insensitive people (thanks, biology class!), but no real comprehension about what life was like for them.  Intersex wasn't even in my vocabulary.  

But I started to learn and just keep trying! It's an ongoing process. I love that you are making this effort for your child and for others.  It is so important.  Dreck's post just reminds us how hateful and UGLY ignorance is.  It's so much better to try to learn about others, rather than condemn and judge from a distance. 

[Henk12]

I'm just now catching up and I am all fired up. Derdick is so hateful. He's like what, 27? And he's making shitty comments about a teen girl? Sounds like he needs a damn job to focus on. He has too much time on his hands.   I hope none of his kids are gay or transgender. It breaks my heart to think of any kid being born into a family that would disown them for being gay or transgender. 

Also why is it bad to say someone is transgendered but okay to say they are transgender? I am still learning.

[Rachel333]

1 hour ago, Palimpsest said:

I'm now an atheist, but I like what Jesus had to say in the NT.  He was a compassionate and understanding sort of guy.

A compassionate and understanding sort of guy who introduced the concept of Hell, condemned entire cities to Hell for not listening to him, said all the OT rules should still be followed, said disobedient kids should be killed, said he came to tear families apart, condoned beating slaves, and said he "came not to bring peace, but a sword."

Seriously, I'll stop after this, but I just think the "liberal Jesus" in favor these days ignores a lot of what the Bible actually says. You can't complain about fundies not taking the nice parts of the NT testament seriously while also ignoring the unpleasant parts.

But really, this is just based on the Bible character and I don't think anyone really knows what Jesus was like. I doubt the Bible is an accurate portrayal of the real guy and for all I know he might have been a really great person whose actual words were twisted for various political ends.

(This reminds me of a book I really like, Lamb: The Gospel According to Biff, Christ's Childhood Pal, by Christopher Moore. Fundies would be horrified, but it's actually a really sweet, respectful portrayal of Jesus despite the book's irreverence.)

And to say something nice about the Bible, there are parts I really like. Some of the Psalms are really beautiful and I love Ecclesiastes, and as for the NT, Galatians 3:28 was one of my favorite verses, and it is quite applicable for this topic:

Quote

There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

 

[Million Children For Jesus]

16 minutes ago, Henk12 said:

why is it bad to say someone is transgendered but okay to say they are transgender? I am still learning.

Idk, but tr*nny is like the n-word. Transgender people can use it, but nobody else can. It's super offensive. Even if you are transgender, you have to have both understanding of the social culture and mastery of the language to use it for comedic value correctly. Not for amateurs. 

Also, pronouns. You have to get them right. There is really never an appropriate time to misgender. Not even to be funny. It's not funny. Derick knew exactly what he was doing when he misgendered Jazz. It was absolutely an intentional low blow. 

[Rachel333]

I would love to see the Duggars go to a church like Cathedral of Hope in Dallas, which has over 4,000 members and is considered the largest church with a primarily LGBT membership. I want them to see thousands of LGBT Christians worshipping with the same passion they do. I don't think they would ever agree to it, but if there's even the slightest chance please make it happen, TLC!

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

1 hour ago, Henk12 said:

Also why is it bad to say someone is transgendered but okay to say they are transgender? I am still learning.

I can't be sure if this is everyone's reasoning, but my understanding is that "transgender" is a noun, so it indicates a state of being. "Transgendered" is a verb, so it shows an action, maybe even a change. Which gets too close to saying that being a transgender person is a choice.

"Well, he used to be normal, but now he's transgendered!"

I'm going to do a quick search. If I find an article or blog post that explains it better, I'll add a link. 

ETA--This article from Time magazine looks like a good overview of the topic. (It talks about adjective vs. noun, not noun vs. verb. I guess I need to review my grammar!  )

GLAAD's website has a more extensive list of terms and discusses which are preferred and which are offensive to most LGBTQ people.

[Greendoor]

3 hours ago, epic fail said:

read 1984 (George Orwell) recently. Speculating about what might make Derick more hateful at some times vs others reminded me of Julias theory in the book: the party uses sexual frustration to channel it into mania and hate.

So how long is the "boy born bodycall ban"? (I would have used sex but who can resist an alliteration, right ?) 

I guess we have at least another week of crazy ramblings coming our way:)

40 days if a boy is bon, 80 if a girl.

 

[Million Children For Jesus]

@WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? That's a good article.

I wouldn't say I got Latinoed. My gay friends didn't get gayed. Transgender is an adjective, not a verb. It's not something that happened to a person. It's a description, like blond, tall, etc., e.g. a tall person, a transgender person. Not a talled person. Makes sense.

I just talked to my oldest (longest running) and oldest (in years) transgender friend, Dave, who is probably close to 70 years old. I met Dave when I was in 3rd grade. He is my friend's mom. I asked him about the word transgendered and he said he still uses that term, that the old timers still use it, and that he didn't know it was getting phased out, but that he doesn't follow the PC media anyway. Haha. I love Dave. 

The article also mentions that transgender should not be used as a noun. e.g. A priest, a rabbi, and a transgender walk in a bar. It would be a priest, a rabbi, and a trans person. Or, a priest, a rabbi, and a transgender person. An adjective.

I hear adjectives used to describe ethnicities, physical characteristics, and sexual orientation used as nouns all the time, especially with my actor friends when they discuss casting. Now that I'm thinking about it, it is kindof crass. 

[FloraDoraDolly]

3 hours ago, Million Children For Jesus said:

My child is a transgender person, and earlier I wrote transgendered. I hesitated because it sounded wrong, but my kids weren't home for me to ask. It's not like this is a new thing for me, it has been years, but learning the correct language takes time, mistakes are made, and old habits die hard. I know. I suck. It certainly isn't intentionally malicious.

Jenny Boylan (a famous transgender author and activist) described HERSELF as "transgendered" in one of her early books. This book came out in the early 2000s, so it's not as if it's really, really old. She changed the terminology for later editions of the book. You can read more about it in the link below. 

http://www.myhusbandbetty.com/2015/07/13/about-transgendered-some-history-grammar/

[Rachel333]

The acceptable terminology changes so fast. A few years ago you were supposed to write "trans*" with an asterisk to be inclusive, and now you're not supposed to do that. You're supposed to write "trans woman" but "transwoman" is considered offensive. (The reasoning is that with the space "trans" because an adjective like any other--"thin woman," "short woman," etc.) It used to be that "transsexual" was the most common term, and some trans people still prefer it, but others don't like it.

Most nice people are understanding of someone who wants to say the right thing but messes up just because they don't know better.

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

@FloraDoraDolly, that was a helpful article. Thank you for linking to it.  I liked this part:

Quote

So, if you would, don’t automatically judge the author of a work that uses this term. It has fallen out of fashion but it’s still in an awful lot of literature by people who were (1) trans themselves, and (2) trans positive. When people use it now it’s often because they’ve seen it elsewhere; it takes time for bad usages to work their way out of the lexicon, just as it takes a long time for some words to work their way in.

Jenny Boylan also has a good analogy about the development of language, just after that quote.

[calimojo]

Has there been a picture of Jill outside of the house yet?  I feel like every picture has shown her sitting in that chair in her room but none show her up and about.  I do still wonder why this has been handled so differently.  I know we have covered that topic ad nauseum but I still do wonder. 

[Rachel333]

I hate to rehash this subject at all, but I was looking through the responses to Derick's tweet, and I did want to say that this is one situation where I think the "not all Christians" response was warranted. (And for what it's worth, even I will correct people who generalize Christianity like this.)

And in fairness to the orange person there, if they had just started the statement with "Fundamentalist" it would be pretty accurate!

[ChickenettiLuvr]

Just wanted to give a huge Thank You to all here at FJ. To say that the discussions have opened my mind, broadened my horizons, and initiated deeper thinking - would be an understatement. My world has been very small the last several years due to serious health issues. FJ was my guilty secret pleasure during some dark days.

I'm choosing to post now, in this particular thread, for one reason. You helped me become aware of transgender issues. So when a former friend and co-worker contacted me recently, I was glad to hear from her. Her vacay photos had me puzzled, though, as her preschool aged child I'd known was MIA. Thanks to FJ, I was able to respond appropriately when she said her child A was now transgendered(?) and is now known as B. 

Without you all, I might have inadvertently said the wrong thing and been unintentionally hurtful. 

So - not all of us who identify as Christian wish to be close minded or judgmental. (Still doesn't excuse those who are.)

 

[MarblesMom]

5 hours ago, Million Children For Jesus said:

I remember training my parents to stop calling Asians, "Oriental."

OMG OMG yes.  Or calling people of Italian descent "EYEtalians" or worse.

I have been interrogated by the Mr MM's elder generation on my ancestry ad nauseum... being asked "But WHAT are you?" and when "human" wasn't the right answer, telling them my family is the OG from the Mayflower ALMOST shut them up.  They still talk, though.

[Fluffy14]

I have been doing some reading....Jesus was not referring to an actual fundy hell, but a place called Gehenna where they threw the dead bodies and and garbage and stuff....at least that is what I remember. Here is a link. 

http://margmowczko.com/paul-james-jesus-hell-gehenna/

The sword was not an actual sword it is a figure of speech....anyhooooo happy reading. 

[VelociRapture]

34 minutes ago, ChickenettiLuvr said:

Just wanted to give a huge Thank You to all here at FJ. To say that the discussions have opened my mind, broadened my horizons, and initiated deeper thinking - would be an understatement. My world has been very small the last several years due to serious health issues. FJ was my guilty secret pleasure during some dark days.

I'm choosing to post now, in this particular thread, for one reason. You helped me become aware of transgender issues. So when a former friend and co-worker contacted me recently, I was glad to hear from her. Her vacay photos had me puzzled, though, as her preschool aged child I'd known was MIA. Thanks to FJ, I was able to respond appropriately when she said her child A was now transgendered(?) and is now known as B. 

Without you all, I might have inadvertently said the wrong thing and been unintentionally hurtful. 

So - not all of us who identify as Christian wish to be close minded or judgmental. (Still doesn't excuse those who are.)

 

I'm glad to hear the forum has helped you. And I certainly don't doubt there are many good hearted Christians looking to learn and grow. I'm glad there seem to be so many of them here. 

And I mentioned this above, but the transgender community really prefers that people avoid using the term "transgendered." Its better to use either "transgender," "transgender person/people," "trans woman/man/girl/boy." Another poster explained better, but the general thought behind it is that "transgendered" is a verb and implies there was a choice involved - which isn't the case as transgender people are born that way.

(And I hope I didn't make you feel badly or anything by explaining. I know the terms change very quickly and can be pretty confusing, especially for those who are relatively new to it all.  )

[Rachel333]

22 minutes ago, Fluffy14 said:

I have been doing some reading....Jesus was not referring to an actual fundy hell, but a place called Gehenna where they threw the dead bodies and and garbage and stuff....at least that is what I remember. Here is a link. 

http://margmowczko.com/paul-james-jesus-hell-gehenna/

The sword was not an actual sword it is a figure of speech....anyhooooo happy reading. 

Obviously the sword was not literal... I don't think anyone pictures Jesus literally carrying a sword! It's just an easy word to contrast with "peace."

The history of Hell is pretty interesting. I don't think a lot of fundies realize that it wasn't really in the Old Testament! Whatever you call it, though, Jesus's teachings are where the modern idea of Hell comes from, and he was the one to frequently reference "fire." I know about the Gehenna reference, which is an interesting one, but it's far from the only time Jesus talked about Hell. Jesus told the story of Lazarus (not the undead guy, a different Lazarus!) being tormented in the flames and not being able to be comforted.

At any rate, the teachings about Hell in the Bible definitely aren't as consistent as fundies seem to think--for one thing, it's not exactly clear that Gehenna, Hades, and the Lake of Fire are all the same place--and a lot of Christians don't believe in it at all. Really though, with enough mental gymnastics you can pretty much get any interpretation you want out the of the Bible, whether it's good or whether you want an excuse to be nasty to people.

[doubleT]

1 hour ago, calimojo said:

Has there been a picture of Jill outside of the house yet?  I feel like every picture has shown her sitting in that chair in her room but none show her up and about.  I do still wonder why this has been handled so differently.  I know we have covered that topic ad nauseum but I still do wonder. 

Yes,  there was a picture shared of her in a car posing with a open pizza box that contained a couple slices of pizza. 

[calimojo]

I saw that picture, but I am not convinced that was taken after the birth.  Her face was fuller in that picture and I wonder if it was taken before she went into labor, but it just got posted later.  We know that they often don't post pictures in order of how things happened. 

I think Jill had a really traumatic birth.  I am not speculating that she has been left with permanent issues, or a hysterectomy or anything.  But she does seem to not be moving around much.  I wonder if she might be having issues with a separated symphysis pubis.   This can happen with a large baby, and if poor little Samuel was wedged in the birth canal for a long time that puts pressure on that part of the pelvis.  The symphysis pubis is where the two sides of the pelvic join together in the front.  They meet there and have a pad of cartilage between them.  During pregnancy the pelvis widens a bit as a result of one of the hormones of pregnancy.  Many women will experience some aches and pains over this pubic 'bone' area during the later stages of pregnancy as the baby settles down into the pelvis and puts some pressure on it. 

Sometimes during late pregnancy and more often during labor that symphysis will separate and can end up being quite painful.  It will eventually heal itself, but if it is bad enough it can make walking very uncomfortable for a weeks after delivery.  ( for all you expectant moms, don't worry, it doesn't actually happen very often). 

Just the lack of seeing any evidence that Jill is moving much makes me wonder if she might just really be having a slower recovery for some  reason.  Most new moms, even C section moms are able to move about and be pretty active soon after delivery.  But seeing Jill in that same chair with different t-shirts on, makes me think she is not moving very far from her bedroom. 

I wish her a full recovery.  I don't wish any permanent effect on her fertility, such as a hysterectomy.  I do hope that she and Derick will have very honest and informed discussions about their family size.  Not only because Jill has hard pregnancies and deliveries, but because I think they are not really well suited to have a large number of children for many other reasons that have been discussed a million times on here.  And because if they are still committed to returning to a mission field,  the practicality of toting around a litter of children is going to be very hard on them.