Dillards 37: Tweeting like a Jackass

[Destiny]

Can I just say:

1) I love this conversation and 2) it makes me happy to think about how much it would piss Derick off to see it.

 

 

 

[SayWhat]

In regards to the word queer,  my Welch Great Grandfather, (may he rest in peace)  emigrated from Wales when he was a teenager way back in 1907.  He used the expression  "There’s not so queer as folk"   to him it meant all people are strange or it takes all kinds.  

[FloraDoraDolly]

48 minutes ago, Rachel333 said:

I know about the history of reclaiming certain words, and for me and a lot of the other people I know who don't like "queer," we feel like the way it's currently used is a lot different than how it was first reclaimed (which was in a different culture--the AIDS epidemic was still going on, for one thing). It's less the word itself and more what it has come to mean. But again, I'm totally fine with other people calling themselves "queer" if that's what fits them best, I just don't like having it applied to me without my permission.

Edit: I'll add that I'm also just not a fan of reclaiming words in general, including misogynistic slurs like "bitch" and "slut." I just feel like it's counterproductive. But of course others feel differently and that's fine too! This is an issue you'll find in any community where different members feel differently about whether slurs are okay to use or not. 

I don't object to people using that word to describe themselves or, as I said upthread, if they're using it among friends. I mean, that's their business. What I object to is when organizations such as GLAAD use it as an umbrella term for the whole community, even though a significant portion of that community objects to the term, does NOT want it applied to them, have said so on numerous occasions, and are told to sit down and shut up about it.

[Bad Wolf]

1 hour ago, SayWhat said:

In regards to the word queer,  my Welch Great Grandfather, (may he rest in peace)  emigrated from Wales when he was a teenager way back in 1907.  He used the expression  "There’s not so queer as folk"   to him it meant all people are strange or it takes all kinds.  

 "There's nowt so queer as folks". Also, "All the world's a little queer save thee and me...And even thee a little." I grew up when queer just meant strange. Meanings change, so the best I can do is try to keep up, so I don't accidentally offend anyone. In my lifetime we've gone from negro to colored to black to African american. Thanks FJ for educating me.

[Cheetah]

One of my kids is currently identifying as agender and/or demi-female (which was explained to me as 'don't really feel like one or the other but use the female pronouns).  Kid was going as they/them, which seems to be what other similar kids that age are doing.  Kid is bio male and I'm trying to get the pronouns right but not always succeeding.  (Along those lines... we've always grouped our younger 2, same-bio-sex kids as 'the boys' as in "boys, come empty the dishwasher" and "boys, it's time for school", etc, and that's a hard habit to break.  Luckily said kid has a name that has a gender-neutral nickname (like Chris but it isn't that).  

I think I'm too old for this, though... I find it relatively easy to be supportive of the kids who have identified as the opposite of their bio sex from early days.  But as someone who grew up in the 80s when women were fighting to be taken seriously in the workforce, and men were looked down on for earning less than their spouses or for staying home with the kids, it feels like we went from saying, "okay, the 'woman' bucket covers a very wide range of experiences and the 'man' bucket also covers a very wide range" to saying, "no, actually 'woman' is fairly narrow and 'man' is fairly narrow and then if you don't fit in either bucket, you are in this 3rd bucket of gender-fluid.  

 

[bethover89]

I think the key is to respect the labels people have connected with and choose to identify with. A lot of younger people who are questioning their sexuality or are non-binary for example seem to find the term queer to be really empowering, which is great!  I do think it is important to consider context and personal preferences before referring to someone else with that term because of its history. Like anything else, if you aren't sure how someone feels , ask!

[HurricaneBells]

23 hours ago, calimojo said:

 for the record, I think there are many people who still get confused in what pronouns to use for people who are transgendered.  My mom, who is one of the most liberal women I have ever known, honestly thought that it was 'proper' to call someone by their 'born sex' until they had surgery.  I don't think she even realized that some people who are transgendered don't end up having the reassignment surgery.  She is almost 80, and just hasn't encountered anyone who is transgendered ( to her knowledge).  When my daughter explained more about it to her, she was mortified that she had been doing it wrong.  Now, I don't think this is Derick's situation, but who knows,  He might be much more sheltered than we expected despite his college degree) 

As long as you arent hurting anyone else then you should do you the way you like and be proud of it. I have no desire to hurt, offend or degenerate others but old folks are not always going to get the terminology right most of the time. I hope its enough that you are loved and supported through your choices.

[Rachel333]

3 hours ago, SayWhat said:

In regards to the word queer,  my Welch Great Grandfather, (may he rest in peace)  emigrated from Wales when he was a teenager way back in 1907.  He used the expression  "There’s not so queer as folk"   to him it meant all people are strange or it takes all kinds.  

Yep, that's what inspired the title of a fairly successful tv show about gay men, first in the UK and then in the US.

(I've heard rumors that Queer As Folk might be coming back too, since remakes are all the rage nowadays and The L Word has been confirmed to be coming back.)

[DuggarsandDragons]

Regarding the word "queer": I am bisexual, and in my mid 20s. Most of my peers who are not heterosexual or comfortable identifying as their birth sex call themselves queer. I do not, as my family used it often as a pejorative regarding gay men or lesbians out of disgust. I associate that word with negativity in my personal experience. However, it seems to be The Word the LGBTQ community uses these days, and even my local LGBTQ bookstore and community center are starting to change their names to "queer." I know the history of the word and do not hate on or discourage others from using it themselves, though. I just feel like it erases those of us who do not feel comfortable reclaiming it, or those of us who prefer the words from the acronym that best describe our orientations.

(Sorry for popping up randomly, but I have feelings about this! Normally I'm in lurk-mode...)

[CarrotCake]

To be honest, the pronoun-thing can also be very difficult sometimes.

A girl I know from school is now a man but I haven't seen him since his transistion. I do still have a lot of mutual friends and when we talk about him I still find it very difficult to refer to him as a male simply because in my head he is still the girl from school. Maybe if I meet with him now it will be easier but my mind keeps on making mistakes.

Even now, while typing this I keep on wanting to refer to him as 'her'.

[MadeItOut]

12 hours ago, Daisy0322 said:

Okay I'm sorry if I come off ignorant or if i word this badly but  that's why I'm asking ...I just need clarification basically because the more I try to understand the more confused I get and I just want to feel confident I'm not offending...my husband has a cousin that Identifys as gender fluid. His cousin likes to be referred to as "M" and doesn't like she/he type pronouns because from my understanding M identitys with both in different ways. One of my questions is How do I address formal envelopes? Also, what's the best way to talk about M in a conversation because I feel like using M's name over and over again ends up sounding awkward and condescending. We've asked M before and M's parents but we never felt like we got an answer we understood and we feel bad if we keep not understanding.

I have a couple of friends in similar situations. I just use initial and last name to address anything. HTH

6 hours ago, SayWhat said:

In regards to the word queer,  my Welch Great Grandfather, (may he rest in peace)  emigrated from Wales when he was a teenager way back in 1907.  He used the expression  "There’s not so queer as folk"   to him it meant all people are strange or it takes all kinds.  

My grandparents on the Yorkshire & Dales side would've said that a lot when we were small too. Lovely memory. 

22 minutes ago, CarrotCake said:

To be honest, the pronoun-thing can also be very difficult sometimes.

A girl I know from school is now a man but I haven't seen him since his transistion. I do still have a lot of mutual friends and when we talk about him I still find it very difficult to refer to him as a male simply because in my head he is still the girl from school. Maybe if I meet with him now it will be easier but my mind keeps on making mistakes.

Even now, while typing this I keep on wanting to refer to him as 'her'.

If it gives you any reassurance, I felt the same way meeting my now girl friend after her transition. I met her in the earlier part of her transition when she was already going by her very female name, but  as she put it 'the old bod just hasn't caught up'. After her final surgery I didn't manage to see her for several months until we had an event together. For a little tiny moment it was odd - kind of like when you see someone for the first time and they've made a drastic hair change so that you have that moment of 'Is that ...?' and then it was just like old times and we were chatting away, working. She just looked a lot more fabulous - somehow more at home in her skin.

[JordynDarby5]

14 hours ago, singsingsing said:

I'm not convinced that Jill or any of the other Duggars are disappointed in Derick in any way, shape, or form. I know to a lot of people on FJ Derick 'looked good on paper' back in the day and now they've become disillusioned with him, but most of you aren't fundies. The stuff Derick tweets is just basic fundie stuff that the Duggars all agree with. They believe being 'persecuted' by the world is a sign that they're doing something right. FJers might be appalled by Derick, but the Duggars are probably high-fiving him and patting him on the back. 

They do not see this as making them look bad or foolish. They is what they believe, and what thousands of their supporters also believe. I do think that Jim Bob and the rest of the Duggars care about making money, but I still think that their religion is ultimately more important to them. I think if anything Jim Bob is probably proud of his son-in-law.

Neither am I. While I want to believe that their disappointed because from my view he what he did was horrible. But these are the same people who do not understand why they lost their original show or why so many people were outraged at them.  If they did they would have done things differently during their interview after the first Joshgate. They don't have the awareness that most people have to know what makes them look bad. They don't think like normal people or have much of an understanding what normal people think. Normal people with a successful show wouldn't be making  robocalls and accusing other groups of being molesters when their own son is one. Normal people wouldn't go on TV after that was blown and insisted that getting no help and doing nothing but sending  their son to work on  Hobby Lobby was the exact correct thing to do. Normal people know what that all would do to their fan base. They certainly wouldn't shoot off their mouths if they were lucky enough to get another show. But the Duggars aren't normal and neither is Derrick. Although he looked normal in the beginning, he's shown himself to be every bit like the family he married into. He often posts things and scripture without the awareness of how many could apply to him.  He insults Jazz and expected everyone to think how awesome he was. He probably  got that from his fundie world. But I do think he was surprised that that the normal world was upset. Or else he wouldn't have half assed that "apology" or whatever that second text  was.

[Palindrome]

39 minutes ago, JordynDarby5 said:

 Although he looked normal in the beginning, he's shown himself to be every bit like the family he married into.

It makes me sick to think of them all sat in the compound, congratulating themselves on being above people like Jazz; never allowing themselves to see that the people they spend so much of their time demeaning and dehumanising have more kindness, bravery and tolerance in their little fingers than these egotistical fake missionaries could ever hope to attain in a lifetime. Get off your pedestal, Derick.

[coexist]

On 8/4/2017 at 0:38 PM, Jelly Roll said:

I do not understand the point of tossing out bible verses. They are old and ambiguous and any number of meanings can be assigned to them by the individual reader. He obviously has a point he's trying to make with each bible-related quote - just say it plain. He comes off as an erratic lunatic.

 

I felt he was low-key tying the quotes back to his beliefs about gender identity: You feel in your heart or mind you're transgender? Don't trust your heart. You "just know" this is your true nature? Forget your nature; be more like Jesus. Transgender people (who don't exist because being trans is a myth) aren't my enemy, the dark cosmic force of evil that has clouded their hearts and minds is my enemy! 

Bleh. Back to lurkdom I go!

Edit: just meant to reply, not quote you. Also, this same interpretation was already touched on by another person further in the thread but I wasn't there yet. Sorry for the repeat when you'd all moved on!

[Queen]

17 hours ago, Snarkle Motion said:

My understanding is that it is like the n-word as it's been reclaimed. Should someone who does not identify as queer avoid the word? Unless a person specifically identifies and asks to be referred to as queer? 

I use queer all the time, partly since it's an easy, simple way to refer to us LGBTQIA people without leaving out anyone. The acronym is getting longer so saying queer is just faster. (Also, some people identify as the word&label queer.) But then again, I'm not a native English speaker, I've never heard the word outside of rainbow circles. I will of course never use the term on someone who doesn't like it! 

Many of the rainbow community's words are reclaimed ones. I myself hate the Swedish slang for lesbian, "flata", since it's a word that sounds so masculine and aggressive (to me). I don't want to be called that. I have an easier time with "dyke", although I don't like it either  But if people use it about themselves, it's fine! For people outside of the community, it's often best to use terms with more neutral or positive connotations (like lesbian, gay, homosexual (maybe), bisexual, pansexual, trans, transgender, intersex, asexual etc.)  Just my opinion. 

[Queen]

Also, the same word is always going to have different meanings for different people. I wish I could give you an easy guide on what words to use, but I'm just one member of a pretty large, worldwide community. We are of every gender and every age, in every culture and country, of every skin color and religion, of every socio economic class and every profession. I think the key is to just try to show respect and be willing to learn and re-learn. Love 

[VeryNikeSeamstress]

1 hour ago, Queen said:

I use queer all the time, partly since it's an easy, simple way to refer to us LGBTQIA people without leaving out anyone. The acronym is getting longer so saying queer is just faster. (Also, some people identify as the word&label queer.) But then again, I'm not a native English speaker, I've never heard the word outside of rainbow circles. I will of course never use the term on someone who doesn't like it!

I have a straight ally friend who affectionately says 'LGBTQLMNOP... People' because she can't keep up with the acronyms changes, doesn't want to leave anybody out, and would prefer not to say queer.

[BeccaGrim]

Can I just say this is the best title for a topic ever. I love it. Made me laugh. 

3 hours ago, Palindrome said:

It makes me sick to think of them all sat in the compound, congratulating themselves on being above people like Jazz; never allowing themselves to see that the people they spend so much of their time demeaning and dehumanising have more kindness, bravery and tolerance in their little fingers than these egotistical fake missionaries could ever hope to attain in a lifetime. Get off your pedestal, Derick.

Very very well put. I teared up reading it. 

[Carm_88]

11 hours ago, SayWhat said:

In regards to the word queer,  my Welch Great Grandfather, (may he rest in peace)  emigrated from Wales when he was a teenager way back in 1907.  He used the expression  "There’s not so queer as folk"   to him it meant all people are strange or it takes all kinds.  

That's still in use here as well. Queer as meaning strange or different. Of course, as stated meanings of words change and one should always think before they speak. Willing to learn what is wrong and why you are wrong is a big part of this world. You're not always going to be in the know on everything, so it's best to keep an open mind. I'm liking this thread drift because it's teaching me many things.  

[BeccaGrim]

On 8/3/2017 at 2:18 PM, mstee said:

He seems miserable. Jill seems miserable. Their marriage seems to be miserable as well. He should focus his energy into things that are in his control and make up his daily life. Leave the negativity off twitter and focus on Jill and their kids and making a living outside of tv. The joke is really on him about "reality tv not being reality". The Duggars have built their empire on secrets and lies. 

He married a girl he barely knew because her father set them up.  She has no schooling except what was given to her over the dining room table.  She probably has little to say for herself other than to repeat the lines that were drilled into her year after year after year. He went to college and while the whole thing might have seemed romantic when it was happening. "You're from Arkansas but I met you in Nepal." with TLC footing the bill and following them around with cameras, he's now tied himself (in his mind for life) to this woman.  Maybe he thinks the only thing left for him is to use his sort of pulpit to be heard.  And he's got to drink the hate Kool-Aid of his father in law because if he doesn't what is the point of tying himself to this nasty life. 

I feel sorry for Derrick. He is a sad looking man on a track to nowhere. And I feel bad for Jill because she thought this was what her life had to be. And now the two boys....Sigh. 

[Bajovane]

Regarding pronouns - yeah, it can be hard to remember.  I have two friends who came out within the past year or two.  One was a total surprise to me and I still have trouble remembering to say he/him.  The other friend I have always viewed as a male (born female) due to how he was - dress, attitude, etc) so when he came out and started the transition - it was really easy.

It's ok if you slip up now and then, that is only natural, especially if you've known the person their whole lives.  It is important to remember to correct yourself as soon as you realize it.

Now it looks like Jeremy has joined the fray.  Ugh.  http://www.inquisitr.com/4411859/jinger-duggars-husband-jeremy-vuolo-shares-quote-from-anti-lgbtq-author-in-wake-of-derick-dillard-scandal/

[Four is Enough]

I am sort of laughing abut the whole "pronouns" thing. See, I grew up in the era when "Ms." came to being.. You know, Not Miss, Not Mrs, Not Dr, etc.. but simply an adult woman who doesn't want you to know if she's married or not. As in, none of your business.

In my circles, it met with tremendous opposition, as people wanted the status quo to remain the same. "It was good enough for your mother, it should be good enough for YOU!" 

There was also confusion... "how do you Pronounce that" "MIZ"

 

Just as there is now. This new terminology seems to be even more complex (and this is my opinion!!) as people seem to be choosing prefixes, titles, and pronouns out of the ether that make sense only to them or to a small group of people.

Without malice, and with some amusement, because I've been through something much smaller but similar, I will be watching, and wishing the community luck in their endeavors to drag the rest of the population into compliance.

[Denim Jumper]

How long until the Duggars bust out a pregnancy announcement to distract from the negative press, lol?

[Buzzard]

7 minutes ago, Denim Jumper said:

How long until the Duggars bust out a pregnancy announcement to distract from the negative press, lol?

Probably more blabbering about adoption

[seraaa]

14 hours ago, SayWhat said:

In regards to the word queer,  my Welch Great Grandfather, (may he rest in peace)  emigrated from Wales when he was a teenager way back in 1907.  He used the expression  "There’s not so queer as folk"   to him it meant all people are strange or it takes all kinds.  

I think Russell T Davies -another Welsh man, coincidentally - was playing on that idiom (and 'queer' meaning odd or strange) when he named the TV show Queer as Folk. Wiki tells me it was 1999 (!) when it first aired on UK TV.