Dillards 37: Tweeting like a Jackass

[Henk12]

19 hours ago, Million Children For Jesus said:

Idk, but tr*nny is like the n-word. Transgender people can use it, but nobody else can. It's super offensive. Even if you are transgender, you have to have both understanding of the social culture and mastery of the language to use it for comedic value correctly. Not for amateurs. 

Also, pronouns. You have to get them right. There is really never an appropriate time to misgender. Not even to be funny. It's not funny. Derick knew exactly what he was doing when he misgendered Jazz. It was absolutely an intentional low blow. 

Oh I know tr*nny is horribly offensive and to always use the correct pronouns. I'm constantly correcting my parents about that kind of thing. Derick was definitely trying to be nasty to Jazz and that makes me sick. 

@WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?

That makes sense! Thank you!

[Rachel333]

51 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

 

@Snarkle MotionI would avoid using the term "queer" unless the person you're speaking with is ok with being referred to as such. This is speaking from an American POV though - and as others said it may vary based off geography and culture. The best practice would likely be to ask the person what term they prefer best and to simply use that one with them moving forward.  

I agree, I think it's best to wait until you know how that person refers to themselves.

That goes to other LGBT people too! I had a trans woman once call me and a few other lesbians "a bunch of dykes" and I really didn't appreciate that.

[Fluffy14]

Sing sing sing. I agree with you in their views as persecution all the way. But I can't imagine they like the negative press. Why else would they start posting a million baby pictures right after controversy?  EverytIme   something bad happens, it's quick put up a cute picture!

[Bad Wolf]

Maybe there's a problem with the lawsuit, and Derick is concerned he won't have enough money to get back to SCA.

[Snowless]

I was just reading an article about this story on a site called LGBTQ Nation, which included Jazz's response, and I found this gem in the article's comments section, which shows there may still be some hope in comments sections everywhere.

 

Quote

God created variation for the purpose of rooting out those who are incapable of loving their neighbors as themselves. Thanks for stepping out of your closet Derick. I hope you realize what you just did.

I am not a practitioner of religion myself, but I just wanted to say that he truly must have no heart if his faith makes him think it is okay to marginalize those that his Bible claims to look down on and deprive those people of the dignity and respect they deserve.  The fact that people in the LGBTQ community are more susceptible to bullying, self-harm, and suicide means nothing to him.  The fact that people like Jazz Jennings are working their asses off to give a voice to a community that people still think is okay to marginalize, a community that our own President now doesn't want in the military (that Derick's side of the aisle claims to support; the military, I mean) means nothing to him.  The fact that our LGBTQ citizens have had multiple court rulings saying that, in fact, they are entitled to inalienable rights and equal protection under our laws means nothing to him.  The fact that his own Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ said to "Love your neighbor as you love yourself" means nothing to him.  The words that his own Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ said in Matthew 7:3 in His Sermon on the Mount, "And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye?" means nothing to him.

It saddens me when people allow their religion to rob them of their ability to care about and have compassion for people who are not like them or not like how their holy books dictate they should be.  I am totally Team Jazz here.  She did nothing wrong.  Jazz has so much more compassion and dignity than any Duggar or Duggar-in-law and does not deserve any of the hate she's getting.  Jazz and the rest of the transgender community deserve so much more dignity and respect than the world is showing them right now.

[Daisy0322]

Okay I'm sorry if I come off ignorant or if i word this badly but  that's why I'm asking ...I just need clarification basically because the more I try to understand the more confused I get and I just want to feel confident I'm not offending...my husband has a cousin that Identifys as gender fluid. His cousin likes to be referred to as "M" and doesn't like she/he type pronouns because from my understanding M identitys with both in different ways. One of my questions is How do I address formal envelopes? Also, what's the best way to talk about M in a conversation because I feel like using M's name over and over again ends up sounding awkward and condescending. We've asked M before and M's parents but we never felt like we got an answer we understood and we feel bad if we keep not understanding.

[Jinder Roles]

@Daisy0322 I also know an M who is non- binary. The best thing to do is ask for M's preferred pronouns. May seem intimidating but it's much better than misgendering. However there is a rule that if pronouns aren't known, you refer to the person as they/them/theirs until otherwise notified.

[candygirl200413]

Ditto with @Jinder Roles. Always ask what their preferred pronouns. I remember reading once that if they use they as their pronoun, you can address formal things like mx. (instead of mrs. or mr.).

[Daisy0322]

32 minutes ago, Jinder Roles said:

@Daisy0322 I also know an M who is non- binary. The best thing to do is ask for M's preferred pronouns. May seem intimidating but it's much better than misgendering. However there is a rule that if pronouns aren't known, you refer to the person as they/them/theirs until otherwise notified.

M just doesn't like using any gender related pronouns so I wasn't sure if there was a non gender related one we could use? 

5 minutes ago, candygirl200413 said:

Ditto with @Jinder Roles. Always ask what their preferred pronouns. I remember reading once that if they use they as their pronoun, you can address formal things like mx. (instead of mrs. or mr.).

Oh okay! That makes sense thank you  

[Coconut Flan]

In that situation, which we have with the in-laws, I use Kelly.  I've never heard a gender reference from mama or anyone.  I address envelopes with no prefix simply Kelly Williams.  No one has whispered about doing it wrong yet.  We've found ways to word sentences such that we don't use pronouns for Kelly which is a nice sexually ambiguous name.  Mama did that one right with a different m/f name.  So far neither grandkid has asked if "Kelly" is a boy or a girl.  Nor have they asked about why Sam and Harry are close friends. It seems they are growing up simply accepting.   Not real names.

[Beermeet]

It's definitely best to ask at the right time.

 Also, if you are binary or transitioning, help us out.  Let us know, we're on your side.  Not all clearly,  ( nobody owes everyone an explaination),but when friends/family/ co-workers/random person you are chatting with (that is not hostile or belittling  to you) seems unsure or trying to figure out how to address you, kindly let us know.  Best to get it out of the way, yeah?  Idk, I appreciate when it happens.  I don't want to feel weird and I don't want you to feel weird.

Just like when I help someone how to pronounce my last name or if they shorten my first on their own and I don't like to be addressed like that.  It's not my name.  

[Lillybee]

One of my favorite authors, Madge Piercy, in her book, Woman on the Edge of Time, used "per as a pronoun which was genderless.

[Million Children For Jesus]

The LGBTQIA kids here (at my house) use queer in a campy way, especially when they're getting dressed to go out. I hear a lot of, "OMG I'm so queer," "you're so queer," "how queer am I?" and occasionally I get, "OMG mom/(insert my name) you're such a queer." I'm not actually queer, it's just a compliment that lets me know I'm included in their group. I love it! I never intentionally try to do things deemed queer just to fit in, but when I inadvertently do something, and I get the big shouts of being queer, it's just so much fun. All of my kids are a ton of fun and I get told almost every day how lucky I am to have such good kids.

Anyway, I was taken aback when I first heard the kids use the word queer because I thought it was a slur. That's about the time I learned LGBT expanded to LGBTQIA and I realized times have changed. I still don't personally say it because after a lifetime of thinking its a slur, I'm not comfortable saying it unless I'm quoting or telling a story. 

[Zenyatta]

On 8/4/2017 at 10:16 PM, rainashine said:

In all seriousness, though. At some point a person is responsible for their actions and path. In US society you are an adult at 18 years old however arbitrary that may be. She may have been raised in a fog of nonsense (I feel sorry for her for that), but she does have the power to make decisions. Breaking with her training/upbringing will be hard - it's not impossible though. 

I am curious as to your criteria for adulthood?

I am sure thinking hard about this question because I don't have kids and so am basing this on myself (a 66-year-old, no kids,  who was greatly influenced by the women's movement and chose  to have a career when no woman I knew had one.)  

What makes a responsible adult (not at 18 but eventually)?  Education, life experience (the world outside your front door),  money sense and belief in yourself. 

(By education, I don't necessarily mean formal.  The library is a wonderful place, and learning from mistakes is sure valuable.)

I would love to hear what others think about what makes an adult. 

 

 

 

 

[Spanger]

A friend taught me to use "zhe" instead of "he" or "she" and "Zur" instead of "his" or "hers".  I just tried looking for a link and couldn't find much, so I might be spelling it wrong or it might not be that widespread, but if that is what zhe wants I am happy to do it!

http://termcoord.eu/2014/03/gender-neutral-language/

[Daisy0322]

6 minutes ago, Spanger said:

A friend taught me to use "zhe" instead of "he" or "she" and "Zur" instead of "his" or "hers".  I just tried looking for a link and couldn't find much, so I might be spelling it wrong or it might not be that widespread, but if that is what zhe wants I am happy to do it!

http://termcoord.eu/2014/03/gender-neutral-language/

I think that if M was comfortable with this that it would be make things clearer, I'll have to ask.

[apandaaries]

34 minutes ago, Spanger said:

A friend taught me to use "zhe" instead of "he" or "she" and "Zur" instead of "his" or "hers".  I just tried looking for a link and couldn't find much, so I might be spelling it wrong or it might not be that widespread, but if that is what zhe wants I am happy to do it!
 

While you should definitely defer to your friend's preferences, I don't think this terminology has taken off in the U.S. While "they" has traditionally referred to more than one person, it seems to work well as a gender neutral pronoun. "Them" works as an alternative to her/him, too. Most formal writing guides do not acknowledge that usage yet, but give it time.
Could totally be proven wrong, and things do change, so time will tell...

[FloraDoraDolly]

8 hours ago, Queen said:

The terminology is sometimes confusing for us LGBTQ people too! For example most young English speakers and non-British/American/Australian/Canadian/New Zeelandic etc. people have no problem with the word queer (it means anything that is not straight and cis), but some older English speakers find it painful, because that's what their bullies called them.

Americans find that that word painful, too. Or at least, Americans over a certain age do. I remember awhile back, when the Huffington Post changed the name of their LGBT page to HuffPost Queer, a lot of people (especially gay men) were VERY upset. But they were told to get over it. The basic message to them was, it's more important to attract millennials who are too unsure about their sexual identity to use L, G, B, or T than it is to consider the very real feelings of LGBT folks over the age of thirty who remember hearing that word before someone bashed them upside the head. There was also a Twitter thread started by @glaad a few weeks ago, where they asked "What does queer mean to you?" I remember seeing responses there from mostly Ls and Gs about how "queer" is a word straight kids use to co-opt their culture. So if anyone reading this thread is looking for words to avoid, I'd add "queer" to the list. (I'm sure some millennials will disagree with me here, but so be it.) I suppose if you're young and you're using it strictly in-house, it might be OK (like when young black hip-hop aficionados use the N-word to address each other, but they sure as hell don't want to hear that word coming out of the mouths of any white people, no matter how down with the homeys they think they might be).

[Rachel333]

@FloraDoraDolly I'm a millennial who completely agrees with you. It bothers me a lot to see young people disregard the feelings of those for whom "queer" is a painful reminder, especially since most of us younger people haven't experienced the same heavy discrimination the older LGBT generation has.

Quote

I remember seeing responses there from mostly Ls and Gs about how "queer" is a word straight kids use to co-opt their culture.

That definitely happens, to the point where a lot of people I know hear "queer" and think "not gay." That doesn't mean that people who do identify as queer don't deserve their place in the LGBT community, of course, but the term is so vaguely defined that it could mean anything.

Edit: I think I found the Twitter thread you mentioned. Replies are, indeed, not particularly positive.  

[VeryNikeSeamstress]

I've already said this in another thread, but Happy Pride, fellow Vancouverites!

I love that the thread drift is becoming a very relevant discussion about sexuality, gender, and pronouns. I self identify as queer because it makes sense for me. When I look at my history as far as dating and attraction goes, I've noticed that I tend to be attracted to folks who don't gender conform. I also feel my own gender is somewhat fluid (even though I generally present in a feminine way). I've also had the word queer used against me, and have experienced bullying. Reclaiming queer takes the power back.

[rainashine]

4 hours ago, Daisy0322 said:

Okay I'm sorry if I come off ignorant or if i word this badly but  that's why I'm asking ...I just need clarification basically because the more I try to understand the more confused I get and I just want to feel confident I'm not offending...my husband has a cousin that Identifys as gender fluid. His cousin likes to be referred to as "M" and doesn't like she/he type pronouns because from my understanding M identitys with both in different ways. One of my questions is How do I address formal envelopes? Also, what's the best way to talk about M in a conversation because I feel like using M's name over and over again ends up sounding awkward and condescending. We've asked M before and M's parents but we never felt like we got an answer we understood and we feel bad if we keep not understanding.

I have a friend that is gender fluid as well. My friend uses "Mx." as an alternative to Ms./Mrs./Mr. I am told that it is pronounced "mix."  I would recommend asking M what they would prefer as it would vary from person to person. 

[CuttySark]

1 hour ago, FloraDoraDolly said:

Americans find that that word painful, too. Or at least, Americans over a certain age do.

I'm Canadian, not American, but very definitely Over a Certain Age (Gen X rather than Millennial), and I was one of the protestors in the 1990s who fought our asses off to reclaim Queer for our own use. It's the only word that encompasses everyone in our community who otherwise slips through the cracks when "gay rights" are discussed. Or when the term "LBGT" comes up, but is really only being used for cis/monosexual orientations. I identify as Queer, I have since 1995, and will until the rest of the community stops ignoring the B and T (and Two-spirited, and genderfluid, and pan...) in the acronym.

(Ah, welcome to the morass of community in-fighting. TBH the biggest push-back I see against the use of queer these days comes from the trans-exclusionary rad-fem crowd, who are not exactly role models.) 

I will say it's best to ask, but be aware that the term originated as a self-identifier in the 1920s, became a slur later, and many of us reclaimed 'queer' for ourselves a long time ago.  

[rainashine]

Hello lovely rainbows. I wanted to add my view on the "queer" term discussion. 

I completely acknowledge that this word has a history of being used in a discriminatory way. I was not among those that felt the brunt of this hatred.

For about 10 years I used the term "queer" to describe myself. I was going out with my ex who is a male to female transgender individual - let's call her B for now. B was not out to everyone, so in public she was male presenting and I used male pronouns. At the time I was figuring out my orientation and was torn between calling myself Bi or a Lesbian. I couldn't be fully out as a lesbian because then that would be like outing B. I didn't feel like the label Bi fit for various reasons: 1. mom said Bi's were greedy and wanted both halves of the pie and 2. I thought Bi meant I was only into cis-male and -female.  Also, I hated the limiting nature of labels. With that I chose queer as the term to define me. It felt like a way to "take back that label" for our community.

I have recently switched to the Bi label to increase Bi awareness and it fits well enough. 

My mom is super supportive of me now btw and I told her that phrase was hurtful. I recently took her to her first drag show and she gave a queen a dollar. So proud of her! 

[Greendoor]

2 hours ago, Spanger said:

A friend taught me to use "zhe" instead of "he" or "she" and "Zur" instead of "his" or "hers".  I just tried looking for a link and couldn't find much, so I might be spelling it wrong or it might not be that widespread, but if that is what zhe wants I am happy to do it!

http://termcoord.eu/2014/03/gender-neutral-language/

I was told the spelling is  zi but either way it is what is common here.

[Rachel333]

I know about the history of reclaiming certain words, and for me and a lot of the other people I know who don't like "queer," we feel like the way it's currently used is a lot different than how it was first reclaimed (which was in a different culture--the AIDS epidemic was still going on, for one thing). It's less the word itself and more what it has come to mean. But again, I'm totally fine with other people calling themselves "queer" if that's what fits them best, I just don't like having it applied to me without my permission.

Edit: I'll add that I'm also just not a fan of reclaiming words in general, including misogynistic slurs like "bitch" and "slut." I just feel like it's counterproductive. But of course others feel differently and that's fine too! This is an issue you'll find in any community where different members feel differently about whether slurs are okay to use or not.