John Kelly -- Bringing Order to the West Wing?

[formergothardite]

Words do matter, which is why it means little to say you support the military while you continue to refuse to say the guy who mocked a veteran who was tortured for this country is loathsome. Says a lot about how much you actually support the military and veterans. It is a bit hypocritical for you to go after Wilson when you won't even condemn Trump. 

[OtterRuletheWorld]

Words do matter, which is why it means little to say you support the military while you continue to refuse to say the guy who mocked a veteran who was tortured for this country is loathsome. Says a lot about how much you actually support the military and veterans. It is a bit hypocritical for you to go after Wilson when you won't even condemn Trump. 

When the fuck were we talking about McCain?

[formergothardite]

I brought it up a page or so ago. But didn't you notice that Trump mocked McCain, a war hero? He was awful and said McCain was a loser and not a war hero because he was captured and tortured. So are you ready to condemn Trump as being loathsome now? Citizenship is not required to condemn something like that as loathsome. 

Trump has:

~mocked a war hear

~verbally attacked a gold star family

~lied to a gold star family

~made a gold star wife cry and then lied about what he said

I would say this isn't exactly a good record that shows respect for veterans and the military.

If you aren't willing to stand up and say Trump is loathsome, then you aren't showing respect to veterans and the military. 

Edited October 22, 2017 by formergothardite

[VelociRapture]

Because this thread seems most appropriate for this right now:

https://www.inquisitr.com/4570854/myeshia-johnson-facebook-donald-trump-frederica-wilson/?utm_content=inf_11_3140_2&source=se&utm_source=se&utm_campaign=se&utm_medium=fb&tse_id=INF_524e8cc0b76c11e78240a3a6bbddd67d

Anyone have, “Usurp the identity of an already grieving military widow to score cheap political points with Trumpsters,” on their What Fresh Hell Is This?! Bingo card?

Edited October 23, 2017 by VelociRapture

[SilverBeach]

23 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

Because this thread seems most appropriate for this right now:

https://www.inquisitr.com/4570854/myeshia-johnson-facebook-donald-trump-frederica-wilson/?utm_content=inf_11_3140_2&source=se&utm_source=se&utm_campaign=se&utm_medium=fb&tse_id=INF_524e8cc0b76c11e78240a3a6bbddd67d

Anyone have, “Usurp the identity an already grieving military widow to score cheap political points with Trumpsters,” on their What Fresh Hell Is This?! Bingo card?

Ain't this a bitch. Unfuckingbelievable.

Edited October 23, 2017 by SilverBeach

[onekidanddone]

On 10/21/2017 at 3:22 PM, SilverBeach said:

Otter is a TT supporter.  None of the rest of us use a capital P when referring to him, or even the word President when referring to that dirtbag. 

Actually I might have used the "P" word. Of course it is almost always combined with "shit stain" or"orange  petri dish of sludge" 

[Curious]

1 hour ago, formergothardite said:

I brought it up a page or so ago. But didn't you notice that Trump mocked McCain, a war hero? He was awful and said McCain was a loser and not a war hero because he was captured and tortured. So are you ready to condemn Trump as being loathsome now? Citizenship is not required to condemn something like that as loathsome. 

Trump has:

~mocked a war hear

~verbally attacked a gold star family

~lied to a gold star family

~made a gold star wife cry and then lied about what he said

I would say this isn't exactly a good record that shows respect for veterans and the military.

If you aren't willing to stand up and say Trump is loathsome, then you aren't showing respect to veterans and the military. 

Don't forget told a gold star father that he would send him $25k and only did so after WaPo reported he hadn't done it several months later

[Cartmann99]

From the article @VelociRapture linked to:

Quote

Johnson is scheduled to make her first public appearance Monday morning when she is set to be interviewed on the ABC TV Good Morning America program. In advance of the program, she confirmed to ABC News that the post was not written by her.

 If Mrs. Johnson stands in solidarity with Ms. Wilson during tomorrow's interview, the Johnson family's Gold Star status will no longer shield them from Trump's fans.  

[nvmbr02]

6 minutes ago, Cartmann99 said:

From the article @VelociRapture linked to:

 If Mrs. Johnson stands in solidarity with Ms. Wilson during tomorrow's interview, the Johnson family's Gold Star status will no longer shield them from Trump's fans.  

 

I agree. I would be surprised if she didn't stand in solidarity with Ms. Wilson considering her mother sided with the Congresswoman and Ms. Wilson seems to be close to the family. I do hope that Mrs. Johnson isn't feeling pressured to speak publicly. Hopefully telling her story is a source of healing for her and not the cause of more pain. 

 

[VelociRapture]

7 hours ago, nvmbr02 said:

I agree. I would be surprised if she didn't stand in solidarity with Ms. Wilson considering her mother sided with the Congresswoman and Ms. Wilson seems to be close to the family. I do hope that Mrs. Johnson isn't feeling pressured to speak publicly. Hopefully telling her story is a source of healing for her and not the cause of more pain. 

 

It was her MIL, Cowanda Jones-Johnson, who spoke out. There was some confusion because she referred to Trump disrespecting “her son and her daughter,” among other family members. I think it’s very sweet that she referred to Myeshia that way, especially now. She isn’t just their DIL or the mother of their grandchildren - she’s their daughter too and that indicates that they’re going to be there for each other as they navigate through this horrible time in their lives.  

Heres an article with a bit of information on who La David was:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2017/10/19/fallen-soldier-la-david-johnson-trump-controversy/779532001/

And a second article:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-american-greatness-of-sgt-la-david-johnson

I think it’s important to call out this Administration for failing the Johnson family so badly. But I also think it’s really important to remember who La David Johnson was as a man as well. He wasn’t just a soldier - he was a loving husband, a devoted father, a man who worked hard at everything he did, who loved riding his bike and popping wheelies on it. He had siblings who loved him, parents/Aunt and Uncle who cherished him, and friends who will miss him very much. He sounds like the type of man any parent would be proud to call their child and that makes all this controversy so much worse somehow. 

[nvmbr02]

As expected she corroborated Ms. Wilson's statement as well as her MIL's (thanks for the correction @VelociRapture). 

My heart goes out to her and her children. 

Edited October 23, 2017 by nvmbr02
attempting to fix awkward wording

[formergothardite]

They are already trashing her in the comments on Facebook and calling her a piece of garbage for saying Trump lied. She spoke out against Trump and made it clear he is a liar, I'm afraid to see how he will react. Trump has made it clear he doesn't mind going after gold star families that speak against him. Hopefully someone can keep him from tweeting about it. 

[VelociRapture]

@formergotharditeAsk and you shall, unfortunately, receive:

He basically called her a liar via Twitter. Supporters of his (who may or may not be Russian bots) are claiming she’s cares more about the fact that Trump insulted her than she does that her husband died. It’s completely disgusting - I honestly thought there was nowhere lower for them to go, but I’m pretty sure they just found a way. 

[laPapessaGiovanna]

31 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

Hopefully someone can keep him from tweeting about it. 

He has already tweeted about it, how not?

How sad is it that I am happy that at least he didn't threw insults at her or called her names? His tweet is stupid, irrespective and a lie, but I feared worse. Knowing him it may escalate.

@OtterRuletheWorld

What do you think about the various Muslim bans? As a foreign citizen, an immigrant yourself, married to an American, you may be able to appreciate the difficulties that are thrown at immigrants from those countries and their families.

ETA @VelociRapturejinx!

Edited October 23, 2017 by laPapessaGiovanna

[formergothardite]

@OtterRuletheWorld, Trump is now calling a gold star wife a liar, is this finally bad enough for you to say he is loathsome? 

[apple1]

Trump is outrageous, his poor little fee-fees cannot absorb even the smallest criticism. I have ZERO excuses for him, nor for Kelly's lies.

That said, Representative Wilson really should stop the tit-for-tat with 45. (Again, not excusing 45 in any way - his is the lion's share of the blame). But both a tug-of-war with the gold star wife as the rope doesn't help. (Yes, I realize she is a long-time friend of the family). Rep. Wilson, use your position in Congress to demand accountability.

[formergothardite]

Last I checked Kelly hasn't apologized for lying about Representative Wilson. 

[Cartmann99]

I peeked in on Twitter to see what Trump's fans were saying about Mrs. Johnson, and she is definitely going to need protection from these idiots. If they haven't already, the Johnson family will be receiving death threats before this day is over. 

[Zola]

I'm watching CNN, and they're showing Myeshia Johnson right now saying she wasn't allowed to see her husband's body. She says she asked repeatedly to have the casket opened so she could see La David's body, and they refused. She's saying she was told her husband's body as in some sort of wrap, and she wouldn't be able to recognize him, but she said she knows every inch of him, every finger, every toe. She's not even sure the man in the casket was truly her husband, La David Johnson. How absolutely awful for her. She's even being denied this last little bit of closure.

How sorry this situation is, how badly this country has failed both this soldier and his widow. Shameful, disgusting, and infuriating. 

 

 

[candygirl200413]

He(Re: Orange fuckface) just REALLY hates black women.

[VelociRapture]

3 hours ago, apple1 said:

Trump is outrageous, his poor little fee-fees cannot absorb even the smallest criticism. I have ZERO excuses for him, nor for Kelly's lies.

That said, Representative Wilson really should stop the tit-for-tat with 45. (Again, not excusing 45 in any way - his is the lion's share of the blame). But both a tug-of-war with the gold star wife as the rope doesn't help. (Yes, I realize she is a long-time friend of the family). Rep. Wilson, use your position in Congress to demand accountability.

She has been demanding accountability. She’s been calling for an investigation:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/10/22/politics/frederica-wilson-tweets-trump/index.html

She was quoted as saying Trump needs to investigate it carefully because she fully intends on making sure Congress does. 

2 minutes ago, candygirl200413 said:

He(Re: Orange fuckface) just REALLY hates black women.

Specifically, strong black women who don’t accept his shit and know how to get under his skin.

Regardless of skin color, he doesn’t like any strong women who stand up to him. But you’re absolutely right that he really seems to target black women in a way that is extremely disconcerting and just adds to the long list of examples of how he’s just a racist asshole.

[GreyhoundFan]

"What Trump did to Kelly shows how far we have fallen"

Spoiler

The United States is in the middle of a very unfortunate experiment in how disoriented a great nation can become before it loses its moorings entirely.

At times, politics seems fairly conventional with Republicans and Democrats arguing about health care and tax cuts, as they long have done. But former presidents George W. Bush and Barack Obama reminded us last week that there is nothing normal about this moment. They issued searing, overlapping condemnations of Trumpism without naming President Trump. Former commanders in chief of opposing parties don’t do this sort of thing unless the country faces an emergency.

Our disorientation is reflected further in the way honorable men and women allow themselves to be pushed into defending the indefensible and twisting noble concepts into cheap and ultimately shameful talking points. These are designed to get the president through one more news cycle or around some controversy he could easily quell if he had any familiarity with the words “I’m sorry.”

In the realm of political commentary, the now-daily detonations set off by a man who sees the common good as the pursuit of suckers drown out any serious discussion of the problems his voters thought he might try to solve.

True, there is a separate difficulty created by his own party’s failure to move beyond the politics of the 1980s and that era’s popular belief that tax cuts and reductions in government social spending will overcome any challenge, anytime, anywhere. A decrepit ideology crowds out new approaches to new circumstances.

For all the talk about Trump being something other than a Republican, he always falls back on the party’s old ideas because he has none of his own beyond promising to build a big wall, stop NFL players from kneeling during the national anthem and fix bad trade deals while offering few details.

But we can’t even have predictable, if necessary, partisan and ideological debates. These are blocked by self-involved spectacle and ruthless attacks against any who raise their voices to criticize the president.

We can try to resist being drawn into this swamp of petty invective, knowing that we are being pulled away from the consequential questions. Yet doing so would mean overlooking the central fact of our political situation: that Trump is systematically sapping our democratic capacities through his routine behavior. As Bush put it, “We have seen our discourse degraded by casual cruelty. . . . Argument turns too easily into animosity. Disagreement escalates into dehumanization.”

This is why all except the most blind Trump partisans had to be heartsick over the performance of White House Chief of Staff John F. Kelly on Thursday. The retired Marine Corps general, who devoted his life to service and suffered stoically when he lost a son in combat, stepped out as a hatchet man against Rep. Frederica S. Wilson.

It was Wilson, a Florida Democrat, who revealed that the president told the widow of Sgt. La David T. Johnson that the slain soldier “knew what he signed up for.” Kelly could not back up Trump’s claim that Wilson had “totally fabricated” the president’s conversation. In fact, Kelly seemed indirectly to confirm her account. So he resorted to a vicious rebuke of the African American congresswoman.

Kelly didn’t even have the decency to use Wilson’s name, and he compared her to noisy “empty barrels.” It was hard to hear him and not think of Bush’s warnings about “dehumanization.” Kelly went on to give a false account of gracious, bipartisan comments Wilson made at the dedication of a Florida FBI building.

Thus is our world turned upside down: A genuine patriot is reduced to the role of propagandist for a boss whose idea of sacrifice, as Trump once explained on ABC News, is running a business from which he profited.

We are numbed to the squalor we see daily. It’s common to hear the president called a “disrupter.” But unlike the tech-world heroes to whom the label is typically applied, he builds nothing, creates nothing and moves a majority of our fellow citizens only toward rage or a sense of helplessness.

But helplessness is not an option, and rage alone will change nothing. By speaking up, Bush and Obama have sent a signal that we cannot sit by and allow our system of self-government to disintegrate before our eyes. The burden is especially great on those who hoped that by serving this man, they could serve their country. Alas, Kelly has shown us that this is simply not possible.

I wholeheartedly agree with the author.

[VelociRapture]

12 minutes ago, GreyhoundFan said:

"What Trump did to Kelly shows how far we have fallen"

  Hide contents

The United States is in the middle of a very unfortunate experiment in how disoriented a great nation can become before it loses its moorings entirely.

At times, politics seems fairly conventional with Republicans and Democrats arguing about health care and tax cuts, as they long have done. But former presidents George W. Bush and Barack Obama reminded us last week that there is nothing normal about this moment. They issued searing, overlapping condemnations of Trumpism without naming President Trump. Former commanders in chief of opposing parties don’t do this sort of thing unless the country faces an emergency.

Our disorientation is reflected further in the way honorable men and women allow themselves to be pushed into defending the indefensible and twisting noble concepts into cheap and ultimately shameful talking points. These are designed to get the president through one more news cycle or around some controversy he could easily quell if he had any familiarity with the words “I’m sorry.”

In the realm of political commentary, the now-daily detonations set off by a man who sees the common good as the pursuit of suckers drown out any serious discussion of the problems his voters thought he might try to solve.

True, there is a separate difficulty created by his own party’s failure to move beyond the politics of the 1980s and that era’s popular belief that tax cuts and reductions in government social spending will overcome any challenge, anytime, anywhere. A decrepit ideology crowds out new approaches to new circumstances.

For all the talk about Trump being something other than a Republican, he always falls back on the party’s old ideas because he has none of his own beyond promising to build a big wall, stop NFL players from kneeling during the national anthem and fix bad trade deals while offering few details.

But we can’t even have predictable, if necessary, partisan and ideological debates. These are blocked by self-involved spectacle and ruthless attacks against any who raise their voices to criticize the president.

We can try to resist being drawn into this swamp of petty invective, knowing that we are being pulled away from the consequential questions. Yet doing so would mean overlooking the central fact of our political situation: that Trump is systematically sapping our democratic capacities through his routine behavior. As Bush put it, “We have seen our discourse degraded by casual cruelty. . . . Argument turns too easily into animosity. Disagreement escalates into dehumanization.”

This is why all except the most blind Trump partisans had to be heartsick over the performance of White House Chief of Staff John F. Kelly on Thursday. The retired Marine Corps general, who devoted his life to service and suffered stoically when he lost a son in combat, stepped out as a hatchet man against Rep. Frederica S. Wilson.

It was Wilson, a Florida Democrat, who revealed that the president told the widow of Sgt. La David T. Johnson that the slain soldier “knew what he signed up for.” Kelly could not back up Trump’s claim that Wilson had “totally fabricated” the president’s conversation. In fact, Kelly seemed indirectly to confirm her account. So he resorted to a vicious rebuke of the African American congresswoman.

Kelly didn’t even have the decency to use Wilson’s name, and he compared her to noisy “empty barrels.” It was hard to hear him and not think of Bush’s warnings about “dehumanization.” Kelly went on to give a false account of gracious, bipartisan comments Wilson made at the dedication of a Florida FBI building.

Thus is our world turned upside down: A genuine patriot is reduced to the role of propagandist for a boss whose idea of sacrifice, as Trump once explained on ABC News, is running a business from which he profited.

We are numbed to the squalor we see daily. It’s common to hear the president called a “disrupter.” But unlike the tech-world heroes to whom the label is typically applied, he builds nothing, creates nothing and moves a majority of our fellow citizens only toward rage or a sense of helplessness.

But helplessness is not an option, and rage alone will change nothing. By speaking up, Bush and Obama have sent a signal that we cannot sit by and allow our system of self-government to disintegrate before our eyes. The burden is especially great on those who hoped that by serving this man, they could serve their country. Alas, Kelly has shown us that this is simply not possible.

I wholeheartedly agree with the author.

I agree, to an extent. I think Kelly has served his country honorably and that he took this job to prevent complete chaos. That said, he is an adult capable of making his own choices. He didn’t have to attack Representative Wilson - he could have attempted to steer the narrative in another direction (and maybe he tried) or he could have flat out refused or he could have resigned. As far as we know, no one forced him to say what he did or to lie. He does hold responsibility for his words. 

[formergothardite]

There were many ways Kelly could have responded when Trump drug him into the mess that would have kept his hands clean. He didn't choose those ways, he chose to lie about a member of Congress and support Trump's horrific behavior and for that he needs to be held accountable. 

[Destiny]

This whole thing is just so ridiculous and childish on the administration's part. Why not just admit to your fuckups and move on/ An apology (a real one, not bullshit like the pussy grabbing apology) would make this shit just go away, and it would be a well deserved one. Why can't they just act like reasonable adult people?