John Kelly -- Bringing Order to the West Wing?

[OtterRuletheWorld]

5 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

Wilson apparently hates military so much she wanted to protect military members who were sexually assaulted. How evil is she!!!!!!!!!

Yep, Trump and Kelly started lying so it started taking up the spotlight. Of course, the president lying and the chief of staff lying to smear the integrity of a member of Congress does need some light show on it. Right Otter? 

I somehow don't think Trump or Kelly are the first politicians to lie or attack criticize another politician.  Not even from a powerful nation.

Politics and Politicians are all very guilty of this.  I do often find that Americans are much less aware that ALL politicians are full of shit. At least to some degree.

[formergothardite]

5 minutes ago, OtterRuletheWorld said:

I somehow don't think Trump or Kelly are the first politicians to lie or attack criticize another politician

So we should just ignore it when two powerful men openly lie? Even if that lie hurts a gold star family? Wilson is a family friend and as I pointed out actually doesn't have a bad voting record. 

You are siding with the guy who attacked a gold star family and lied to another one. How is that respecting the military? 

[SilverBeach]

Attack is the correct verb for Dumpy's actions. His default is attack mode. Not the posters here, who did not attack Kelly. 

[Cartmann99]

Have the Trump fans started directly attacking the Johnson family yet, or is that scheduled for next week? Since the family is so close to Representative Wilson, their Gold Star status will only protect them from the Trump fans for a limited amount of time. 

[Destiny]

FFS

Thought you oughta know. :-P

[formergothardite]

4 minutes ago, Cartmann99 said:

Have the Trump fans started directly attacking the Johnson family yet, or is that scheduled for next week? Since the family is so close to Representative Wilson, their Gold Star status will only protect them from the Trump fans for a limited amount of time.

Especially since the mother spoke out proving Wilson correct and Trump a liar. After Trump's treatment of McCain and other Gold Star families it is hard to take anyone who refuses to condemn him seriously when they claim to love the military. 

[VelociRapture]

My father is a Vietnam Veteran. My parents raised me and my siblings to show the utmost respect to members of the military and their families because they never wanted their children to treat soldiers the way my father was treated when he returned home.

I respect General Kelly. I think he (and General Mathis) initially joined this Administration to help bring a bit of order to the chaos that is Donald Trump and everything he touches - someone needs to be the adult in the room and I think they were willing to possibly torpedo their careers if it helped protect their country somehow. He will always have my complete sympathy for the loss of his son. I can’t even imagine how horrific it must have been for him to receive that visit or be the one to tell his wife their son had died. And I am horrified that Trump thought it was a good idea to publicly bring Kelly’s loss into all this by being the first one to mention it - General Kelly seems to be a rather private person and I can’t imagine having the most painful experience of his life being used so publicly can be easy.

That said, I do feel strongly that he messed up this time. He told several confirmed falsehoods about Representative Wilson, never stated his sympathy for the family, and insisted on defending Trump even after the family confirmed that they were hurt and insulted by the words Trump chose to use.

No one is above criticism when they mess up. Not even 4 Star Generals. 

3 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

Especially since the mother spoke out proving Wilson correct and Trump a liar. After Trump's treatment of McCain and other Gold Star families it is hard to take anyone who refuses to condemn him seriously when they claim to love the military. 

His treatment of McCain has been stunningly cruel. The man is a war hero who endured horrific torture that left him permanently marked and has served his country proudly. It honestly sickens me to see the way he has been mocked and belittled and insulted. The fact that Trump appears to gleefully be awaiting McCain’s death from cancer - because of his opposition to Trump’s healthcare agenda - is spectacularly cruel to McCain and his family.

[Ali]

When I saw this thread was hot, I thought I was going to be able to mark off Kelly on my bingo card.

@OtterRuletheWorld I noticed you did not answer a few questions. I will ask some again and I have a few to add.

Did you recently move?

Did you ever live in Germany? I saw you said you are not German, but have you ever lived there?

What do you think about adult coloring?

Are you a "Harry Potter" Fan? Would you like to be spending time in Hagrid's hut with Witherwings?

Edited October 22, 2017 by Ali

[Palimpsest]

@Ali, thanks so much for Witherwings.  I'd forgotten that iteration.

[GrumpyGran]

29 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

@Ali, thanks so much for Witherwings.  I'd forgotten that iteration.

I have no idea what you guys are talking about but completely off-topic, that roach problem I had in my kitchen seems to have cleared up. Thought you'd want to know. I can only hear the crickets in there now, love the sound of them!

[Cartmann99]

*Gets out laundry basket, starts folding socks* 

7 minutes ago, GrumpyGran said:

I have no idea what you guys are talking about but completely off-topic, that roach problem I had in my kitchen seems to have cleared up. Thought you'd want to know. I can only hear the crickets in there now, love the sound of them!

That's good to know. The last thing you need is pregnant roaches making porn in your kitchen!

[Palimpsest]

4 minutes ago, Cartmann99 said:

*Gets out laundry basket, starts folding socks* 

That's good to know. The last thing you need is pregnant roaches making porn in your kitchen!

Very unladylike snort from here. 

[Smoochie]

@VelociRapture  I too am the daughter of a Vietnam vet and grew up as a USAF brat.  The one thing that my father rarely talked about was his time in Vietnam or having to make a visit with the Chaplin to a family of an injured or deceased serviceman in his unit.   Luckily, he didn't have to do it often, as we weren't in any major conflicts  during that time, but, I remember a few situations where he did and how it affected him.  

I truly believe that what was said to General Kelly by his friend fit the situation.  Those same words would not be right for everyone.  Lets face it, Trump is not the most emphatic person and I believe his narcissism doesn't allow him to even understand or comprehend the kind of grief someone losing a partner or child would feel.  It certainly did not fit the situation of a president who never served, calling a 25 year old pregnant widow, on the way to her husband's repatriation, not withstanding the fact, that the condition of his body was such that an open casket was not possible.  It was not the right time to call her, Kelly even told him not to call, but, you can't tell him anything, he's always right ...

I don't even know what to think of General Kelly jumping into the fray and then lying, I lost every bit of respect I had for him.   The fact that he did just boggles the mind, so much for him influencing Trump, I think exposure to Trump  corrupts everyone that comes into contact with him!   

Edited October 22, 2017 by Smoochie

[Destiny]

2 hours ago, GrumpyGran said:

I have no idea what you guys are talking about but completely off-topic, that roach problem I had in my kitchen seems to have cleared up. Thought you'd want to know. I can only hear the crickets in there now, love the sound of them!

 

2 hours ago, Cartmann99 said:

*Gets out laundry basket, starts folding socks* 

That's good to know. The last thing you need is pregnant roaches making porn in your kitchen!

Holy shit ladies. HOLY SHIT. I'm dying. You both win my personal post of the week today. Well fucking played. I'm dying here.

3 hours ago, Ali said:

When I saw this thread was hot, I thought I was going to be able to mark off Kelly on my bingo card.

@OtterRuletheWorld I noticed you did not answer a few questions. I will ask some again and I have a few to add.

Did you recently move?

Did you ever live in Germany? I saw you said you are not German, but have you ever lived there?

What do you think about adult coloring?

Are you a "Harry Potter" Fan? Would you like to be spending time in Hagrid's hut with Witherwings?

FWIW, I share many of these questions. 

[nvmbr02]

I am way late to this party but I thought I would throw in my 2 cents anyway. 

For a little back ground I am a military veteran. My husband is also a military veteran (and a disabled veteran at that). My step father was a POW during Vietnam. I had 2 uncles who I never met who were KIA. My cousin was KIA in Desert Storm. All my grandfathers and most of my uncles and more than half of my cousins (and my brothers in law) have served at one point. I now live and work in a military community (I work on base, my kids go to school on base). The military has been a part of my life since birth.

Gen. Kelly does deserve respect for his service. And he has the right as a Gold Star father to feel however he wants to. But he was also wrong in this situation. He has misstated facts and has been called out for it. Period. 

[OtterRuletheWorld]

When I saw this thread was hot, I thought I was going to be able to mark off Kelly on my bingo card.
[mention=25214]OtterRuletheWorld[/mention] I noticed you did not answer a few questions. I will ask some again and I have a few to add.
Did you recently move?
Did you ever live in Germany? I saw you said you are not German, but have you ever lived there?
What do you think about adult coloring?
Are you a "Harry Potter" Fan? Would you like to be spending time in Hagrid's hut with Witherwings?

I was asked if I spent any time in Germany. I have, but no, I have not ever lived in Germany.

I have not moved in nearly 2 years. To some people, that is recently, to me, that is a long time.

[formergothardite]

So, @OtterRuletheWorld, are you willing to admit you were wrong about Wilson's voting record? I googled that headline and came up with right-wing newspapers whose goal was to trash her.

I did have respect for Kelly, but in this particular situation where he lied about Wilson and defended Trump, he deserves no respect. 

IME Trump fans tend to sound a lot a like when they are attempting to ignore tough questions about him so it is really hard to tell if someone if a sock or just a random Trump fan who is trying to pretend they aren't. 

Edited October 22, 2017 by formergothardite

[GrumpyGran]

@nvmbr02, thank you so much, your service and sacrifice and that of your family is greatly appreciated by me. 

[OtterRuletheWorld]

So, [mention=25214]OtterRuletheWorld[/mention], are you willing to admit you were wrong about Wilson's voting record? I googled that headline and came up with right-wing newspapers whose goal was to trash her.
I did have respect for Kelly, but in this particular situation where he lied about Wilson and defended Trump, he deserves no respect. 
IME Trump fans tend to sound a lot a like when they are attempting to ignore tough questions about him so it is really hard to tell if someone if a sock or just a random Trump fan who is trying to pretend they aren't. 

No, I am not. I would do a bit more research on her voting if I were you. I had a good understanding of her votes when I posted here. Her voting history is absolutely not supportive of the military. She has different priorities, which is fine, but the military is far from a priority, and while it is fine, as I said, I happen to disagree with it. She is a hypocrite.

I am checking out of this conversation because I am officially uncomfortable with the talk of me being someone else. I also find it really creepy that people believe I have recently moved recently and willing to bring information like that forward (falsely, but whatever) You are walking lines of "doxxing" me because you believe I am someone else. That leads me to believe you are willing to dox someone else.

I think a few people need to chill out when responses slow down. I would have engaged with the conversation more, had it not got very weird, but I also have other things to do. Dinner on the beach with friends and family takes priority over responding on a message board.

[Destiny]

34 minutes ago, OtterRuletheWorld said:

You are walking lines of "doxxing" me because you believe I am someone else. That leads me to believe you are willing to dox someone else.

The definition of doxing per Wikipedia:

Quote

Doxing (from dox, abbreviation of documents),doxxing or docxing, is the Internet-based practice of researching and broadcasting private or identifiable information (especially personally identifiable information) about an individual or organization.

The methods employed to acquire this information include searching publicly available databases and social media websites (like Facebook), hacking, and social engineering. It is closely related to internet vigilantism and hacktivism.

Exactly where is ANY of this happening in this thread? Spoiler: it isn't. Words mean things, and if you are going to accuse us of something, use the right ones. 

For the record, this is exactly the complaint your doppelgänger loved to use. I'm just saying. It feels like the summer of '60 over here. :/

Edited October 22, 2017 by Destiny
adding forgotten quote tags.

[OtterRuletheWorld]

Exactly where is ANY of this happening in this thread? Spoiler: it isn't. Words mean things, and if you are going to accuse us of something, use the right ones. 
For the record, this is exactly the complaint your doppelgänger loved to use. I'm just saying. It feels like the summer of '60 over here. :/

Thanks for the definition!!!

🤣

I am hardly feeling terrible about accusing you of coming close to doxxing me. Realize, you are accusing me of a lot, and by doing so, openly discussing doing so and "not being able to prove it yet" I am getting a sense someone is attempting to figure out who I really am. That makes me uncomfortable.

People were literally demanding I answer questions about my personal life. Repeatedly. So, accuse away while telling me I can't make accusations.

[formergothardite]

40 minutes ago, OtterRuletheWorld said:

I had a good understanding of her votes when I posted here.

Why the fuck did you link to a list of things to "prove" she had a bad voting record when that link didn't prove it? I did actually go through her voting record and there were no red flags that she doesn't support the military and there were cases where she clearly did. 

No one doxed you. You just write exactly like another Trump fan who came here and tried to pretend they weren't a Trump fan.

And you come of as adoring Trump, not caring about the military. When you won't condemn as loathsome the guy who mocked a veteran who was tortured, well you don't get to say you honor veterans and the military. 

[Palimpsest]

35 minutes ago, OtterRuletheWorld said:

I am checking out of this conversation

Thanks be to Rufus.

Quote

because I am officially uncomfortable with the talk of me being someone else. I also find it really creepy that people believe I have recently moved recently and willing to bring information like that forward (falsely, but whatever)or the rest.

  Well, you bear a huge resemblance to a known troll.  And if not that person your behavior resembles a troll.  Definition: "a person who makes a deliberately offensive or provocative online post."

As for creepy, I merely asked whether you had moved recently.  I had no idea whether you did or not.   And I find you incredibly creepy. 

@Destiny explained what doxxing means.  You have not been doxxed.  Nor has anyone else by FJ.  

42 minutes ago, OtterRuletheWorld said:

I think a few people need to chill out when responses slow down.

No responses for 9 hours means responses slowed down.

44 minutes ago, OtterRuletheWorld said:

Dinner on the beach with friends and family takes priority over responding on a message board.

Have fun.  And stay on the beach.  I'd be delighted not to see you responding here again.

[OtterRuletheWorld]

Why the fuck did you link to a list of things to "prove" she had a bad voting record when that link didn't prove it? I did actually go through her voting record and there were no red flags that she doesn't support the military and there were cases where she clearly did. 
No one doxed you. You just write exactly like another Trump fan who came here and tried to pretend they weren't a Trump fan.
And you come of as adoring Trump, not caring about the military. When you won't condemn as loathsome the guy who mocked a veteran who was tortured, well you don't get to say you honor veterans and the military. 

I never said I was actually doxxed. Words matter 🤣

Have fun.  And stay on the beach.  I'd be delighted not to see you responding here again.

[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

I love how "assertive" you all are.

I certainly want to please you. [emoji6]

[Destiny]

5 minutes ago, OtterRuletheWorld said:

I am hardly feeling terrible about accusing you of coming close to doxxing me. Realize, you are accusing me of a lot, and by doing so, openly discussing doing so and "not being able to prove it yet" I am getting a sense someone is attempting to figure out who I really am. That makes me uncomfortable.

You are under no obligation to answer the questions. Also, accusing you of being a sock, which I'm pretty damn sure you are, for the record, has nothing whatsoever to do doxing. That said, no one from the staff is sharing any of your personal information anywhere, so again, your stupid doxing point is stupid.