Michael and Brandon Keilen Part 3

[luv2laugh]

I wish Michael would see the top specialists in Chicago such as Northwestern University Reproductive Endocrinologist Fertility Clinic. Chicago has some of the best doctors. Michael may be struggling if she refuses to do IVF. Some fundies are very against IVF.

[ophelia]

9 hours ago, Dandruff said:

Maybe Gil and the boys chop his firewood, or trim his trees, or mow the lawn, or help with any renovations...

I figured the clinic gifted Kelly and Gil with the medical care during the last pregnancies, because they thought the Bateses were such a nice, christian family. 

[seraaa]

On 1/14/2018 at 11:54 AM, ophelia said:

I figured the clinic gifted Kelly and Gil with the medical care during the last pregnancies, because they thought the Bateses were such a nice, christian family. 

The clinic is also featured on TV, which is possibly good advertising for them

[faraway]

I think they simply don't trust evil heathen doctors hence Dr. Vick. A reproductive center at a large University is probably the antichrist to fundies...

[infooverload]

Did I read she was saying they would stop testing if this test came back inconclusive? Is it common for test to come back inconclusive, when trying to determine the cause of infertility.?

[Andrea]

12 minutes ago, infooverload said:

Did I read she was saying they would stop testing if this test came back inconclusive? Is it common for test to come back inconclusive, when trying to determine the cause of infertility.?

Sometimes its just unexplained infertility.  Sorta adds insult to injury, "you should be able to get pregnant but we have no reason as to why you dont "

[SilverBeach]

On 1/12/2018 at 9:28 PM, llg1234 said:

 

Just because something's covered, doesn't mean it's going to be paid for. Does IL require insurance companies to pay for the treatments, or just to have them covered? Because if it only requires coverage, I'm guessing the costs are put to the patient's deductible, if they have one. It wouldn't surprise me that if the Keilens had a high deductible, they might not be able to afford treatment instate. The current average deductible is $5000 a year, and idk how well IBLP pays.

Health insurance doesn't work like this. Supplies and services that are not covered do not count toward your deductible, you need a flexible spending account to reimburse you for those to at least realize some tax savings. Not covered supplies and services are excluded from the plan, period. My deductible is $350 annually for self only, don't know where you got your $5000 figure from. The family deductible isn't even that high under my plan. I realize that I have "good" insurance, but still don't think your stated figure is typical for employer sponsored plans in Illinois where I reside.

Former group health insurance underwriter and corporate benefits manager here.

 

[Andrea]

42 minutes ago, faraway said:

I think they simply don't trust evil heathen doctors hence Dr. Vick. A reproductive center at a large University is probably the antichrist to fundies...

I think if that was the case they probably wouldn't have gone through testing with the Drs in Chicago to begin with.  Maybe its just a matter of thinking he was the one who finally helped Erin have not one but 3 babies and she's hoping he can help her achieve the same results.  

[Mela99]

Did I read she was saying they would stop testing if this test came back inconclusive? Is it common for test to come back inconclusive, when trying to determine the cause of infertility.?

It can be. Unexplained infertility makes up for about 30% of infertility issues. Sadly there isn't always an explanation

[Ali]

1 hour ago, SilverBeach said:

Health insurance doesn't work like this. Supplies and services that are not covered do not count toward your deductible, you need a flexible spending account to reimburse you for those to at least realize some tax savings. Not covered supplies and services are excluded from the plan, period. My deductible is $350 annually for self only, don't know where you got your $5000 figure from. The family deductible isn't even that high under my plan. I realize that I have "good" insurance, but still don't think your stated figure is typical for employer sponsored plans in Illinois where I reside.

Former group health insurance underwriter and corporate benefits manager here.

 

My plan currently has a $6000 deductible and our previous plan had an almost $13,000 deductible. I would love a $350 deductible.

[llg1234]

2 hours ago, SilverBeach said:

Health insurance doesn't work like this. Supplies and services that are not covered do not count toward your deductible, you need a flexible spending account to reimburse you for those to at least realize some tax savings. Not covered supplies and services are excluded from the plan, period. My deductible is $350 annually for self only, don't know where you got your $5000 figure from. The family deductible isn't even that high under my plan. I realize that I have "good" insurance, but still don't think your stated figure is typical for employer sponsored plans in Illinois where I reside.

Former group health insurance underwriter and corporate benefits manager here.

https://www.thebalance.com/traditional-vs-high-deductible-health-insurance-2385891

Spoiler

A high deductible plan has a high deductible that you must meet before the insurance will start paying for your office visits, lab tests and prescriptions. In order to qualify as a high deductible plan the deductible must be at least $1000.00. The average deductible is $5000.00 dollars. Often once you have reached the deductible the insurance will kick in with one hundred percent coverage and you will no longer need to pay additional costs. This may be a good option if you feel like you can't afford health insurance. 

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/23/heres-how-much-the-average-american-spends-on-health-care.html

Spoiler

According to eHealthInsurance, for unsubsidized customers in 2016, "premiums for individual coverage averaged $321 per month while premiums for family plans averaged $833 per month. The average annual deductible for individual plans was $4,358 and the average deductible for family plans was $7,983."

Where did I mentioned non-covered procedures? I said that just because the fertility treatments are covered, doesn't mean that Michaela and Brandon don't have to worry about the cost. Things might be better in IL, but in my state, there are several patients at the practice I work about that owe $1,500 or more and still haven't reached their deductible. You are very lucky to have such a low deductible and such good insurance, but not everyone is in the same boat.

[marmalade]

On 1/12/2018 at 4:32 AM, TeaELSee said:

She talked again about their infertility problems, I was really surprised when she said she wanted another test/procedure done, but by Dr. Vick vs. her specialists in Chicago. That makes zero sense to me.

Does anyone know which suburb they live in?   

Simple answer? Dr. Vick is willing to be on camera. We were never were privy to her consultations in Chicago. 

[just_ordinary]

Guys, what the hell? I knew health insurance is bad in the USA but I thought if you have one that the things it covers are paid for. Do I get something wrong? If my husband and I will be diagnosed with infertility there is a huge amount of treatments that are fully covered. They are limited in number though. There are no infinite tries on ICSI for example (think it is 3-5?) but you are at least able to go down that route if you must. 

[ophelia]

1 hour ago, just_ordinary said:

Guys, what the hell? I knew health insurance is bad in the USA but I thought if you have one that the things it covers are paid for. Do I get something wrong? If my husband and I will be diagnosed with infertility there is a huge amount of treatments that are fully covered. They are limited in number though. There are no infinite tries on ICSI for example (think it is 3-5?) but you are at least able to go down that route if you must. 

Same thought here!! Your health care system sucks badly. I really hope there will be a change of that in the future. 

I'm glad that I live in a "socialist" country.

[VineHeart137]

8 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

Guys, what the hell? I knew health insurance is bad in the USA but I thought if you have one that the things it covers are paid for. Do I get something wrong? If my husband and I will be diagnosed with infertility there is a huge amount of treatments that are fully covered. They are limited in number though. There are no infinite tries on ICSI for example (think it is 3-5?) but you are at least able to go down that route if you must. 

I have no experience with coverage for infertility, but I am currently pregnant and while I have health insurance that "covers" maternity care, I'm still paying my OB between $600-700 out of pocket, and that doesn't cover the fees I'll rack up during my hospital stay. After I had my daughter we continued to get several bills from the hospital (partially because I had an unplanned c-section, which of course costs more than the vaginal birth I was expecting) and probably ended up paying them another $2500 total. I have a friend due the same month as me who is panicking because she's been told she needs to pay her OB nearly $600 per visit (over 6 visits). It all depends on deductibles and co-insurance and varies wildly. It sucks.

[just_ordinary]

2 hours ago, VineHeart137 said:

I have no experience with coverage for infertility, but I am currently pregnant and while I have health insurance that "covers" maternity care, I'm still paying my OB between $600-700 out of pocket, and that doesn't cover the fees I'll rack up during my hospital stay. After I had my daughter we continued to get several bills from the hospital (partially because I had an unplanned c-section, which of course costs more than the vaginal birth I was expecting) and probably ended up paying them another $2500 total. I have a friend due the same month as me who is panicking because she's been told she needs to pay her OB nearly $600 per visit (over 6 visits). It all depends on deductibles and co-insurance and varies wildly. It sucks.

Feel like you and your friend need a big hug! 

I cannot imagine how bad it must be for people who deal with sickness and have to worry even more because of the bills. Or how you cannot just enjoy pregnancy because money. 

If I decide to have a fancy room or only get treated by the head physician I will have to pay extra, but you don’t really need that to get excellent care (which doesn’t mean you wont get a shitty doctor- but you outside hospital  you just look for another one).

[VineHeart137]

@just_ordinary Thank you! Unlike our first, this baby was planned well in advance so we were able to save up so we at least don't have to worry about how we're going to pay for everything, but my friend is definitely going through some sticker shock. Here, if your kid is sick, in many cases you pay money just to have the doctor LOOK at your child, and then pay more for whatever medications or treatments are needed. Our health system is very much broken.

[ladybug15]

13 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

Guys, what the hell? I knew health insurance is bad in the USA but I thought if you have one that the things it covers are paid for. Do I get something wrong? If my husband and I will be diagnosed with infertility there is a huge amount of treatments that are fully covered. They are limited in number though. There are no infinite tries on ICSI for example (think it is 3-5?) but you are at least able to go down that route if you must. 

it really depends which state you are in - what they mandate is covered and what insurance you have. Even each plan within given insurance have different coverage. So for example state of NY requires that IUI (insemination - not IVF) be covered by all insurances but it does not require IVF coverage. 

Some plans have a cap of let say $10k or $20k lifetime for infertility treatments. For some plans it includes medication, and any procedures are counted in that amount. Another insurance might have medication under a different cap and the $10k is for procedures only. So its very individual.

Which country are you in that there are covering so many ICSI? In most I heard 1 or 2 max, and you are not eligible if either of the partners had kids previously.

5 hours ago, VineHeart137 said:

I have no experience with coverage for infertility, but I am currently pregnant and while I have health insurance that "covers" maternity care, I'm still paying my OB between $600-700 out of pocket, and that doesn't cover the fees I'll rack up during my hospital stay. After I had my daughter we continued to get several bills from the hospital (partially because I had an unplanned c-section, which of course costs more than the vaginal birth I was expecting) and probably ended up paying them another $2500 total. I have a friend due the same month as me who is panicking because she's been told she needs to pay her OB nearly $600 per visit (over 6 visits). It all depends on deductibles and co-insurance and varies wildly. It sucks.

Tell your friend to negotiate with the doctor or have a payment plan. Same thing with the hospital, and double check the statements from the insurance. Many times the insurance say you own nothing and the hospital/doctor charge you for the difference. You can dispute that.

[VineHeart137]

@ladybug15 Thank you for the advice, I'll pass it on!

[Iamtheway]

20 hours ago, Andrea said:

Sometimes its just unexplained infertility.  Sorta adds insult to injury, "you should be able to get pregnant but we have no reason as to why you dont "

I have friends that had this. No answers from tests. Nothing wrong with any of them. They still had to do ivf to get their kids. I wonder how Michael would feel about that. The doctors not having any answers would be even more like it was god punishing them. 

7 hours ago, VineHeart137 said:

I have no experience with coverage for infertility, but I am currently pregnant and while I have health insurance that "covers" maternity care, I'm still paying my OB between $600-700 out of pocket, and that doesn't cover the fees I'll rack up during my hospital stay. After I had my daughter we continued to get several bills from the hospital (partially because I had an unplanned c-section, which of course costs more than the vaginal birth I was expecting) and probably ended up paying them another $2500 total. I have a friend due the same month as me who is panicking because she's been told she needs to pay her OB nearly $600 per visit (over 6 visits). It all depends on deductibles and co-insurance and varies wildly. It sucks.

That’s just scary. So much stress on new parents. Hope your friend works it out. And good luck to you on your second birth, may it go so smoothly other women hate you a little!

$600 is probably about what I paid for three ivf:s, including all exams and medicine, all my prenatal care and my five days in hospital for the marathon birth of Miniway. Maybe the total was a bit more. But not very much. It was the weirdest feeling to go in to the pharmacy and just pick up medicine for several thousand Swedish Krona and not pay anything. 

I wish people here understood how good we have it and stopped messing with the system. 

[User error]

On 1/15/2018 at 5:42 PM, infooverload said:

Did I read she was saying they would stop testing if this test came back inconclusive? Is it common for test to come back inconclusive, when trying to determine the cause of infertility.?

While undergoing tests for infertility I was told by a doctor that it’s more common than people realize.  The stats the doctor gave me at the time were 1 in 4 women have difficulty conceiving.  Of those women 1/8 end up with inconclusive results.  

[JesSky03]

Sometimes its also quicker/more affordable for patients to bypass the "why" part of infertility and to just jump right into IUI or IVF. I had bloodwork, ultrasounds, and an HSG done but none of those gave us any concrete answers on why we weren't getting pregnant. There were more tests we could have done but we decided to give IUI a try and we were successful. I do worry about having to deal with that all over again when we try for #2 but maybe I'll get lucky and pregnancy will kind of give my body the kick in the butt it needs. 

[janey]

I live in Illinois. I have unexplained infertility. When we were going through treatments with HMO insurance I paid co-pays ($50 a specialist visit - and there are A LOT of visits) and for drugs. Cost varied by protocol. But the catch is you have to do certain tests in a certain order. This meant a couple years worth of trying Clomid and IUI cycles before getting to IVF. Then after IVF worked, twice and I miscarried, twice, and insurance denied blood work requests, twice, we discovered the blood issues when the RE gave me a list of blood work and suspected Dx to give my GP to test. Had that been part of the protocol early on we could have skipped four years of stress and heartache. In the end it worked 3x with blood thinners. So yes Illinois is an awesome place for coverage for fertility treatment, though the testing and screening processes could use an improvement. 

[nolongerIFBx]

On 1/18/2018 at 2:35 PM, JesSky03 said:

Sometimes its also quicker/more affordable for patients to bypass the "why" part of infertility and to just jump right into IUI or IVF. I had bloodwork, ultrasounds, and an HSG done but none of those gave us any concrete answers on why we weren't getting pregnant. There were more tests we could have done but we decided to give IUI a try and we were successful. I do worry about having to deal with that all over again when we try for #2 but maybe I'll get lucky and pregnancy will kind of give my body the kick in the butt it needs. 

Anecdotal, but I do know someone that happened to! She has endometriosis. #1 and (5+ years later) #2 were IVF. #2 was @ 2 and she started feeling sick. Highly skeptical, but took a pregnancy test because that was the last time she felt like that. Surprise! #3. Figured it was a weird miracle/fluke until she started feeling sick again when #3 was still a baby. Yep, #4. After that, they made sure there were no more surprises though they were the best kind!

[VelociRapture]

Birthday post from Brandon: