Michael and Brandon Keilen Part 3

[infooverload]

For years I have gone exclusively to women just as a general comfort issue. One time there was a scheduling error. My particular normal female gynecologist was at the west side location and not the downtown location on the particular day. They had called to confirm and I was all I already took time off and can only make it to the downtown location. I was taking public transportation since I did so to get to work. After a few minutes they say oh the male doctor is available. The receptionist talks him up and is all he's done this for 30 something years. I figured okay he has experience it will go routinely no problem. My experience with him was one of him bumbling around like a nervous medical student and indicating my cervix was unusually high up. The pap smear took longer than it normally does. I have an understanding with my doctor. Every time I make the joke "Act like it's a bank robbery get in and get out as fast as possible." She knows I hate going in and basically puts up with me bemoaning the fact I'm there.

[Kangaroo]

One again, you ladies are making me scarex for things I haven't needed yet.

Though as I understand it next year I'll need to get my first pap test whether I'm sexually active or not by then. The new tests are only once every 5 years if nothing is abnormal, but are more accurate.

[just_ordinary]

Wow, I never heard of so many horrible experiences with the regular pap. I am very sorry for all of you who had a bad experience. Sitting on this chair and having someone examine your vagina is quite an intimate situation. So every doctor should be calming and understanding. To think going to such a bad examination twice a year is crazy. I first went to a male doctor and stayed with him even after we moved for years before he retired. Now I am in a joint practice (one male, two female). All four have been absolutely fantastic. Is it my favourite hobby? Surely not and the pap itself is a bit uncomfortable but I never felt violated. All my doctors make and made sure to use lots of lubricants and remember me to press down when they insert the speculum. 

I can only advise anyone to try different doctors till you find one who makes you feel as comfortable as possible. Imagining women avoiding medical check ups because of bad doctors is quite worrying.

[lumpentheologie]

14 hours ago, neurogirl said:

I actually left that appointment shaking because I've only had one sexual partner (my fiance) and it took a lot and a long time for that to happen in the first place, so this stranger coming at me angrily with this tool was a little traumatizing.

I'm so sorry this happened to you, @neurogirl.  What a bad NP.  It sounds understandably traumatic -- someone hurting you and dismissing your needs and pain in such a sensitive and intimate area can be traumatizing no matter how many sexual partners a person has a had. 

[ladybug15]

ouch sorry to hear all the bad experiences. In my lifetime I had bad and good gynos. Currently I use midwives (both for pregnancy and general gyn needs) and I love them. Totally down to earth and understanding. But its critical to find a doctor/provider you trust, so change as many times until you find the one.

 

[Mela99]

Since we're discussing it, it might be worth asking your respective providers if their offices are going to get any of the new speculums. They're plastic and designed differently - no horrible crank noises and no pinchy, cold metal. My OB has them now and it makes a WORLD of different. I'm very short so they've always had to use the pediatric speculums on me and those were still painful.

https://www.wired.com/story/the-speculum-finally-gets-a-modern-redesign/

[neurogirl]

5 hours ago, lumpentheologie said:

someone hurting you and dismissing your needs and pain in such a sensitive and intimate area can be traumatizing no matter how many sexual partners a person has a had. 

True! I shouldn’t have implied that the number of sexual partners had anything to do with it! 

@just_ordinary press down...where? I’ve never heard this!

[JesSky03]

For anyone reading and getting freaked out- keep in mind there are a wide range of experiences when it comes to this stuff. I had an HSG and it was not painful for me. Uncomfortable and awkward but I've had menstrual cramps way, way worse than what I had during the procedure. I've had two colposcopies and I was shocked when the doc told me he took the biopsy because I didn't even feel it. I've had two IUI's- first one was fine, but the 2nd one required her maneuvering my cervix and that was painful but over quickly. I just had my first cervical check for pregnancy and it didn't hurt at all. I know some women say they are excruciating. Sucky part is you don't know which camp you will fall into until you have it done. But anytime you can take meds prior to a procedure definitely do so and do your best to mind over matter it by remembering why are you having the procedure done in the first place. 

[just_ordinary]

51 minutes ago, neurogirl said:

True! I shouldn’t have implied that the number of sexual partners had anything to do with it! 

@just_ordinary press down...where? I’ve never heard this!

A bit like as if you want to take a ... well you got it. The opposite of a Kegel might be an even better explanation. It is said to help with having the vagina not all tensed up.  It doesn’t need a lot of pressure though. I breath out with it and the speculum is in its place in 1 sec. If the  opening of the spec is uncomfortable because I am not relaxed it helps too. To be honest I do it for the whole time in the chair because it also makes the examination with fingers easier.

Can I just add that I love the term “Puss Ups” for Kegels? Some women wrote it on the internet and while it is kind of hilarious I think the term is quite accurate!

[seasonsoflife]

On 1/28/2018 at 12:35 AM, coffeebean7 said:

 

I have to snark on yet another t-shirt/spaghetti strap dress combo though. Really? 

 

This! Why can't they just buy clothes with sleeves? The sister wives fo the same thing. I don't get it.

I am sorry so many of you had to go through what sounds like a horrible procedure.

I hope she gets pregnant soon...with twins or something. 

[elliha]

All my pap smears were completely painless and plastic speculums are used here in Sweden mostly too so I can attest that they work and are not uncomfortable. I only had one bad experience relating to vaginal examinations. When I was getting induced with Iris they broke the membranes with something that looked like a long crochet needle. That part was OK, it only felt like you peed yourself with your vagina but I expected that. However, the midwife who performed the procedure also decided to try to get a scalp electrode into the baby's head. That was not a good decision, the baby was too high up and she pushed on my stomach and pulled at my cervix and it hurt like hell. Nothing during that or my second birth hurt more than that. After that I made very clear that she was not to ever do that to me again and I was monitored externally instead until the baby low enough to fit a scalp electrode without cervical pulling. I even made sure that subsequent exams were done with the scalp electrode out of reach of the midwife or doctor so that I would know she would not try to fit one in some kind of sneaky way. All exams I have ever had were by women. 

I did have the man gentle and woman a butcher experience though when I had a boil in my ear (yes, that is incredibly painful and had I waited another day to go to the doctor I might had necrosis in my ear and may have needed a partial outer ear amputation which I am glad I didn't need). The woman pulled at my very swollen ear and poked at the boil so hard that I felt like I was going to faint. The male doctor was so gentle I hardly felt him touching my ear and it was as I described above very swollen and very infected. After a lot of visits to the hospital and surprisingly expensive oily ear medicine+antibiotics I fully recovered.

 

[Kangaroo]

4 hours ago, seasonsoflife said:

I hope she gets pregnant soon...with twins or something. 

Yeah I kind of want to disagree there.

If they had twins (or any number of multiple babies at once), imagine how much the Bates would push that it's a miracle and god was just testing them so he could bless them even more, and therefore Michael is the most godliest child!

Like I'm sure this would probably happen if she even got pregnant with one child, but more than one? Eek.

As much as I feel bad for them and want them to be able to have children, Michael's miracle multiples and then the subsequent favoritism as the miracle babies might get annoying fast.

[lumpentheologie]

8 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

A bit like as if you want to take a ... well you got it. The opposite of a Kegel might be an even better explanation. It is said to help with having the vagina not all tensed up.  It doesn’t need a lot of pressure though. I breath out with it and the speculum is in its place in 1 sec. If the  opening of the spec is uncomfortable because I am not relaxed it helps too. To be honest I do it for the whole time in the chair because it also makes the examination with fingers easier.

Can I just add that I love the term “Puss Ups” for Kegels? Some women wrote it on the internet and while it is kind of hilarious I think the term is quite accurate!

This is called a Pelvic Drop and there are videos on youtube that can explain it better than I can. Anyone who experiences a lot of tension down there can benefit from this and a certain kind of breathing that goes along with it.  

There's all this talk about Kegels and lifting your pelvic floor (especially in Pilates), but a lot of women have pelvic floors that are already too tight and need relaxing. That can make pelvic exams (and sex) painful. I've been through the works with this and have recommendations -- if anyone would like to hear more, please PM me! 

[elliha]

7 hours ago, lumpentheologie said:

There's all this talk about Kegels and lifting your pelvic floor (especially in Pilates), but a lot of women have pelvic floors that are already too tight and need relaxing. That can make pelvic exams (and sex) painful. I've been through the works with this and have recommendations -- if anyone would like to hear more, please PM me! 

A physiotherapist whose blog I sometimes read said that this pain can be so intense that some women believe that they have for example suffered physical complications after birth when in fact they just need to learn when to relax and when to tighten their pelvic floor muscles. She is very involved in teaching women about how to both relax and strengthen their pelvic floor muscles and she always teaches both to her patients. Those with tight muscles need to focus on relaxing and the right amount of tightening and when to tighten up and those with untrained muscles need to learn how to tighten them up and when it is best to do so but also how to help their pelvic floor relax so that they don't go around doing exercises all day. If I understand correctly it is always correct to tighten your pelvic muscles when you lift something heavy for example but you normally don't need to actively tighten your muscles in every day life that much unless you need to do exercises to actually improve your muscles. After my first child's birth I suffered pain when I walked too long and I think myself that I tightened up without knowing I did and got overworked muscles. I must also have managed to relax on my own because at around 6 months after this disappeared. With my second child I didn't have the muscle pain beyond the first two weeks and very little compared to with my daughter. 

[Mela99]

I'm still trying to figure out the pelvic floor exercises/kegel thing. I know I'm supposed to be doing them daily but honestly I have no idea if I'm doing it right or using the right muscles or what. 

[merg429]

On 1/31/2018 at 11:07 AM, Mela99 said:

Since we're discussing it, it might be worth asking your respective providers if their offices are going to get any of the new speculums. They're plastic and designed differently - no horrible crank noises and no pinchy, cold metal. My OB has them now and it makes a WORLD of different. I'm very short so they've always had to use the pediatric speculums on me and those were still painful.

https://www.wired.com/story/the-speculum-finally-gets-a-modern-redesign/

I have had two routine exams and only with the new speculums.  There has been some discomfort and at the last one I had to be reminded to relax, but I am so thankful they had the newest device and missed out on some of the horror stories! 

I figured all doctors would have the new ones by now! 

[lizzybee]

Kelly posted on Instagram that she was having a bad day and called Michael to vent (I'm sorry I don't have the internet skills to share it here) and that Michael sent her a sunshine basket to cheer her. Very thoughtful. 

I couldn't help but try to imagine Michelle having a bad day and calling one of her daughters to cheer her up. It was impossible. I couldn't imagine enough feelings coming from Michelle to even have a bad day and need to talk to someone about it. Maybe they're totally different in real life but it seems so foreign to think of Duggars comforting each other. 

[Hisey]

On 1/31/2018 at 2:17 PM, Kangaroo said:

Yeah I kind of want to disagree there.

If they had twins (or any number of multiple babies at once), imagine how much the Bates would push that it's a miracle and god was just testing them so he could bless them even more, and therefore Michael is the most godliest child!

Like I'm sure this would probably happen if she even got pregnant with one child, but more than one? Eek.

As much as I feel bad for them and want them to be able to have children, Michael's miracle multiples and then the subsequent favoritism as the miracle babies might get annoying fast.

I hope they have a baby in five years. I hope they have to wait that long.

The reason is, I think Michael is the type to hit her kids in whatever way her parents "corrected" her. She just seems really invested in her parents' lifestyle.

If it takes a long time for the baby to come, it will seem like a true miracle to her (I know all babies are miracles, but there is the added element of thinking you'll never have one and then having one. . . ) I am hoping she will be less severe with a baby if she has logged five years of longing for one. 

[seasonsoflife]

On 1/31/2018 at 7:17 PM, Kangaroo said:

Yeah I kind of want to disagree there.

If they had twins (or any number of multiple babies at once), imagine how much the Bates would push that it's a miracle and god was just testing them so he could bless them even more, and therefore Michael is the most godliest child!

Like I'm sure this would probably happen if she even got pregnant with one child, but more than one? Eek.

As much as I feel bad for them and want them to be able to have children, Michael's miracle multiples and then the subsequent favoritism as the miracle babies might get annoying fast.

I did not think about that. I feel bad for them and forget who they are and the context.

I am just currently pregnant and so excited, I can't imagine how hard it must be.

 

[Kangaroo]

56 minutes ago, seasonsoflife said:

I did not think about that. I feel bad for them and forget who they are and the context.

I am just currently pregnant and so excited, I can't imagine how hard it must be.

 

Exactly! Under normal circumstances the joy of finally conceiving would be something I think all of us here would praise. But for as long as they remain in the cult encouraging their behaviour isn't right.

Congratulations for your pregnancy by the way! I hope all goes well 

[Knight of Ni]

Plastic speculum sounds like they would be a lot more comfortable. Definitely less cold. I swear one office I visited stores their speculums in the refrigerator. 

[Percy]

16 hours ago, Mela99 said:

I'm still trying to figure out the pelvic floor exercises/kegel thing. I know I'm supposed to be doing them daily but honestly I have no idea if I'm doing it right or using the right muscles or what. 

Physio at work says to try to stop the flow of urine when passing water.  If you can stop your urine flow, you are tightening the correct muscles.

Same goes for men, but with blokes we talk about shortening the penis as well as stopping the flow.

[Marly]

8 hours ago, Knight of Ni said:

Plastic speculum sounds like they would be a lot more comfortable. Definitely less cold. I swear one office I visited stores their speculums in the refrigerator. 

The hospital I went to had speculum "warmers". They put the speculum in something like a warming unit, so that it isn't cold. The speculum being warmer makes it easier to stay relaxed. A friend of mine worked in a different hospital and the norm there was also to warm the speculums before using them. 

edited to say: I don't know if this is done in most hospitals here. I do know from my mom that in her GP's office they don't warm speculums, because she always complained that they were very cold.

[Melissa1977]

On the topic about speculums and gynecology tests, I think it not only depends on the instruments but also (and especially) on the doctor's ability. I'm a relaxed patient and I feel NOTHING when my doctor does the cytology or other normal procedures.  But last year I went to another doctor, who was a very nice woman indeed; however, I felt unconfortable with the cytology. There was no pain, but I felt something. So I suppose some doctors are just more skilled than others.

[Rosalie]

I am also relaxed while getting gynecological examination (well, as relaxed as one can be when someone fumbles with your private parts. I compare it to going to the dentist. Relaxed, but even though a bit stressed out), but it seems that some doctors are too hasty while doing the g.e., and women have so many nerves plus the skin is so sensitive down there, that too hasty often causes discomfort, and even pain, no matter how relaxed you are.

I had my first g.e. when I was 17/18-ish, and all the doctors, both g.p.’s and gynecologists at hospital, have used speculums in plastic. The g.p.’s have used speculums that are for one use only, as they normally don’t have access to machine for sterilization of equipment.