Aunt Lori Alexander 21: Bringing About Gilead One Doodle at a Time

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

My thought is that Lori isn't wired to feel joy  or empathy or happiness or any positive emotions, but she is wired to feel anger, bitterness and resentment.  I know it sounds impossible, but there are people in my family and circle of friends who I've known all my life and all their lives who are like that.

However, not being a psychiatrist or having more than an armchair knowledge of psychology, I fully admit i could be way, way off base.

If Lori has repressed all her emotions for years, then in addition to faith she probably needed years of therapy. Except in her belief system feeling are bad and sinful and you can just choose to be happy -- although she doesn't follow she own beliefs. 

On a different topic, I really like Brian H's response to Ken's post.  Brian seems like a nice man, a wonderful husband, the sort of man you'd like to have as a friend.  I notice he says he mentors men too.  I bet his mentoring is much more compassionate, grounded in Scripture and helpful than Ken's blatherings.

If Brian had a Blog, I'd read it.

[Koala]

Brian is making Ken look like a whiny child.  

[Loveday]

And then there's this response to Ken on FB:

 "Sounds like Jezebel needs to be binded!! That's so sad!! Love our church cause our Pastor is on this hard core!! When I act up - hormones- my husband don't play he calls it out and tells me I better respect... I think some guys are just TOO nice... time to clean the house of all open doors/windows... shut off all cable, cell phones, internet... take the tvs out... go back to the basics ... don't provide privileges for spoiled brats..."

What. The. Hell. Is she talking about an adult woman or a three year old? 

[crawfishgirl]

Ken's wall of text is so one-sided.  They assume that all men are good and wonderful and would never take advantage of being a leader, and that all women are bitter, childish and always at fault.  They would reach a wider audience if they acknowledged that there is good and bad in both men and women, but they have such disdain for anything remotely female that they come across as deluded.  There is absolutely no balance in their writings.  I'm amazed that anyone except for the MRA types would listen to them.  Their fangirls must have some intense self-hatred in order to follow them.  Even most conservative religious people would realize that these two must live in a fantasy land where all males are automatically good and all females are automatically bad - the rest of us know better.

I am liberal, but live in Texas, land of the pseudo-conservative.  Many of the women claim to be conservative , but are actually strong-willed and wouldn't put up with this shit from their husbands, and they wouldn't expect their husbands to put up with crap from them, so they actually have good balanced marriages.  I had one friend who told me that she knew she was supposed to vote Republican, but instead voted for a Democratic candidate because the person was just better.  Somehow these people have been convinced that Republican is better, but when they actually think about it, they are not so sure after all.  Sometimes I wonder if it's just a way to fit in.  Unfortunately, the Democrats have all but given up on the state, so we don't have much balance here.

[AlwaysDiscerning]

 

So I live in EST and since she has had happy delete fingers I quickly looked at her fb page this morning. I have what is missing in the above screen shot. sorry for the long post, I wanted people to see it in context. 

 

Thats great! I am putting both on my tumblr. Great example of someone saying something mild and reasonable and poof!!

[louisa05]

Narcissists will play act at emotion. The borderline and narcissist I know both have emotions as they relate to themselves--they don't feel sorrow for others, but they express exaggerated sorrow themselves. They also don't talk about why emotions are bad. That is the chief difference. While NPDs--there are plenty of resources to read about the disorder, btw--lack empathy, they don't tend to go around preaching emotional repression. That is something Lori has been taught. 

And I think it is important to know that we don't know a hell of a lot about Lori's sisters or her parents. A few rational comments here and there on the internet don't equal an emotionally healthy person. Additionally, kids can internalize and respond to the same parents/parenting in hugely different ways. Their personalities contribute to that immensely. If a young child is given to extremes in emotions while the siblings are not, the parental response may be different and may be internalized in different ways. 

Another reason I don't think Lori is actually NPD is that they LOVE conflict. They thrive on it; they create it and they want to be at the center of it. When attacked, they attack back. An NPD isn't going to use the delete function to end an argument. They will continue the argument and try to pull others in to make it last as long as possible. They love being right, but they also enjoy the conflict that, in their minds, proves that they are. 

[EowynW]

@crawfishgirl Texan here too. My husband says I'm a tornado full of Pepper and he loves it. 

Take that, my T2 mom who thought I'd never make a "proper" wife. 

[AlwaysDiscerning]

Hopeful Wife says:

June 16, 2017 at 7:59 am

I needed this today. It is helpful for my own bitterness as well as understanding what I think is bitterness in my husband.

We’ve been married for a few years and I’ve been the one with the drive to initiate intimacy most of the time. He’s always said work stress is the problem but after being turned down for months as a newlywed, the pain was too much not to believe the problem was me. I struggled to hide my pain and disappointment which I later realized I needed to give up and submit to him in everything. Learning submission in this area was very important and helped both of us in many ways, yet intimacy has not changed.

A new job and lifestyle we hoped would improve life has come to the same end. I’ve almost entirely given up on reaching out and just wait for him now because of the pain of rejection. He doesn’t see it as rejection.

I feel so badly for the husbands out there that face this with their wives. It’s so much more than physical intimacy. Being denied physical touch is like being denied love itself. We know babies need touch to survive, why wouldn’t touch still be important throughout our lives?
The pain was so intense at times and it sounds dramatic but I’d feel a pain in my chest and wondered if I was dying from a broken heart. For the most part I’ve tried to no longer dwell on the infrequency in order to avoid the pain.

I know there are much worse problems marriages face and I’m grateful he loves me and works hard to provide. I’m also thankful I can trust that he’s not involved in any sexual sin. I do believe bitterness is his issue, I just don’t know if it’s really just about work or if I’m to blame. He used to be very kind and gracious to me, but he’s become increasingly impatient and fault finding. I know my real husband is still in there. I want to help him.

I’ve wanted to ask for help for a long time but it’s taken me just as long to realize it’s a serious enough problem to seek help. I’ve only ever reached out to one older Christian woman and she of course didn’t understand my pain. It’s a very lonely place to be as a young woman. I can’t think of anyone I know who wouldn’t laugh at my situation, not understanding how deeply it hurts.

 

I am curious what kind of response that will get. As if Lori is going to understand any better. What does she know about a sexless marriage? She would in fact probably love to have a sexless marriage. 

[polecat]

 

Louisa05 -- yes she does always say the feelings are bad and sinful, but I'm not sure she's ever applied it to herself.

She has certainly made her feelings known to others throughout her life.  Although one might assume that her bossy bully feelings are fueled by a deep seated anger from long ago.

Anger at what is my question. She seems to have had a privileged childhood and marriage, Anyone who says she always gets her way has probably never lacked for anything -- her remodeled kitchen is the latest example. Seven weeks vacation is another -- when most of us struggle to get one week.

Her unending privilege, always getting her own way, and what she wants when she wants it -- yet still being a bossy bully bitch to those around her is what makes me refer to her as a born bitch

The sentence i just wrote could easily refer to my sister, so I have first hand experience.  When a person like that is physically in your life, It's not pretty. 

 

3

I have someone like that in my life, too, and because I've known that person since early childhood, I know that there's really never been any attempt by others to stifle her. Some kids are bullies, not because they are being picked on, but because they have actual personality disorders, and they don't outgrow that. 

[EowynW]

My house is a mess today. But instead of staying home like a dutiful wife to clean it, Mr. EW is pushing me out the door to go to knit club, saying I've been at home long enough and need to go have some fun. I must be a rebellious wife and my husband a weak man for not valuing a clean home over a happy wife. 

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

I have no doubt that Hopeful Wife is in deep emotional pain because of her husband's continued rejection of any type of intimacy and his new levels of impatience and fault finding. 

However, everything she said sounds like the warning signs of an affair to me. Or possibly, if he has no interest in sex with her at all, he may also be struggling with his sexual orientation.

I want to tell this young woman that it is not her fault. That absolute total submission in everything won't fix his issues. And she should know that just because he isn't having sex with her, it doesn't mean he is being faithful.

What it does do is give him a clear field to continue as he is, while putting all the blame on her.

Edited to add:  Brian is counselling the commenters on Ken's post! With actual helpful suggestions!

 

[older than allosaurs]

 

louisa5 wrote

Another reason I don't think Lori is actually NPD is that they LOVE conflict. They thrive on it; they create it and they want to be at the center of it. When attacked, they attack back. An NPD isn't going to use the delete function to end an argument. They will continue the argument and try to pull others in to make it last as long as possible. They love being right, but they also enjoy the conflict that, in their minds, proves that they are. 

Not always. The narcissists we tend to be aware of, and sometimes vote for, do love a public fight, but there are others. I was married to a diagnosed (by a pro, not just me in my jammies searching online) narcissist. You can all be grateful that his control issues are major enough that he can't deal with the public rough and tumble. His MO is to do his rants and self-dramatizing at home, or on a blog he makes no attempt to publicize. He'll go weeks and months not communicating even with his friends and it's been years since he spoke to me.  If you stand up to him you become a nonperson. Every now and again I still hear from some old mutual friend who has suddenly been banished and wonders if I know why. He needs to be always right, always the best, and always a victim of heartless, clueless attackers, but he doesn't like to do it in public. Perhaps because, unlike Lori, he's very smart and may realize he's not coming across the way he sees himself. (Once I told him my frustration that he was so wildly inconsistent in his expectations. The kids and I couldn't figure out how to please him, so he was always unhappy and we were always in the wrong. "I'm not inconsistent," he said. "I'm mercurial.")

I'm not diagnosing Lori--and really, what's the point? But her delete finger isn't necessarily incompatible with narcissism. For that matter, our Narcissist in Chief has banned many of his critics on Twitter.

[BlackSheep]

54 minutes ago, EowynW said:

My house is a mess today. But instead of staying home like a dutiful wife to clean it, Mr. EW is pushing me out the door to go to knit club, saying I've been at home long enough and need to go have some fun. I must be a rebellious wife and my husband a weak man for not valuing a clean home over a happy wife. 

I'm under the weather. Mr. BlackSheep is picking up dinner on his way home and tomorrow he's doing the grocery shopping himself. I didn't nag him, guilt him, or even ask. It was his idea and I'm so very thankful for him.

When he is sick/stressed/whatever, then I bear more of the burden of getting things done.

Marriage - and any human relationship -  should be about loving each other and wanting the best for each other. What's "best" varies with each relationship and situation, and sometimes varies by the day. You figure it out together as you go along.

I don't trust any person who says, "I have all the answers for all situations!"

I am more likely to trust the person who says, "I don't know exactly how to help you, but I'm going to give you a hug... pray for you... check in with you tomorrow..." Etc.

[Koala]

Someone please screen grab this exchange:

Reader:

Quote

Sounds like Jezebel needs to be binded!! That's so sad!! Love our church cause our Pastor is on this hard core!! When I act up - hormones- my husband don't play he calls it out and tells me I better respect... I think some guys are just TOO nice... time to clean the house of all open doors/windows... shut off all cable, cell phones, internet... take the tvs out... go back to the basics ... don't provide privileges for spoiled brats...

Lori Alexander:

Quote

 I agree!

Ken Alexander:

Quote

It's tricky business trying to help a wife in the middle of a temper tantrum and depending on their level of rebellion and meanness they do sometimes respond to some forms of consequences, some even crave it, but find their husbands too soft. I have had a couple of wives blame their husbands for their bad behaviors because they won't lead, then when the husband tries to lead her she complains that he is too controlling. Bad behavior makes up its excuses, self-justifications and blame and only those with open hearts can be won with smaller consequences. The big consequence is ultimately separation and/or insisting she gets a job and pays her own way in life if she is not going to be a wife to her husband.

Reader:

Quote

@Ken Alexander going on from your last sentence. Shouldn't the man have to put up with the bad behaviour and carry his cross as long as there is no physical abuse involved,instead of separation? I was thinking that because a woman would be advised to do that if the roles were reversed.

Thank you!  Yesterday they said that a wife should suffer in silence to save her husband from hell if he was mistreating her.  Today Ken's whining about how these poor "godly guys" are suffering at the hands of their "misbehaving wives" and they need to dole out consequences.

So in summary:

If a husband is "disobedient" you: Do everything in your power to please him.  Suffer in silence. Do what  he says.  Wait on him hand and foot.

If a wife is "disobedient" you: Whine to the internet.  Come up with consequences.  Consider separation.  

Meanwhile, Brain has taken over the blog's comment section, and he's actually giving decent advice like, "contact a professional"!

[HoneyBunny]

From Lazy Lori's Instagram... she thought she had food poisoning the other night and took a teaspoon of some coconut charcoal stuff in water and is just hunky dory now. 

Who thinks this crazy lady is giving herself the multitude of stomach issues she suffers from? Time to take the Norwex out of the sun and off the grass and wash the damn things. And that four day old salad?  Maybe it's not so healthy after all. 

[quiversR4hunting]

@Koala I am so glad I am at work and have snagit to get the long back and forth in one screen shot! Oh wait this is the wrong one about the Jezebel but this one is almost as good. I'll get jezebel in a moment. 

The "Jezebel binded" post

[laPapessaGiovanna]

I am not a psychologist (and I am a foreigner not used to english for this topic) but in my job together with my colleagues I have a role in assessing the psychological state of our patients. I can't say much about a person I have never met but when I think about Lori alexithymia comes to mind. It's not a proper diagnosis (you don't find it on the DSM as a diagnosis per se) but it indicates a state of the person that plays a big role in her mental wellbeing or lack of.

FFrom this link https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/mind-guest-blog/the-emotional-blindness-of-alexithymia/

"

Alexithymia throws a monkey wrench into a person’s ability to know their own self-experience or understand the intricacies of what others feel and think. Here are a few examples those with alexithymia experience:

Difficulty identifying different types of feelings

Limited understanding of what causes feelings

Difficulty expressing feelings

Difficulty recognizing facial cues in others

Limited or rigid imagination

Constricted style of thinking

Hypersensitive to physical sensations

Detached or tentative connection to others

History of Alexithymia
Alexithymia was first mentioned as a psychological construct in 1976 and was viewed as a deficit in emotional awareness [2]. Research suggests that approximately 8% of males and 2% of females experience alexithymia, and that it can come in mild, moderate and severe intensities [3]. Studies also show that alexithymia has two dimensions – a cognitive dimension, where a child or adult struggles to identify, interpret and verbalize feelings (the “thinking” part of our emotional experience). And an affective dimension, where difficulties arise in reacting, expressing, feeling and imagining (the “experiencing” part of our emotional experience) [4]."

People with alexithymia tend to somatise a lot, expressing through their bodies the emotions they can't otherwise verbalise or even feel.

[older than allosaurs]

Just in case: If my last post sounded handslappy about armchair Lori diagnoses, that wasn't my intention. I just want to add another layer, from very personal experience,  to the clusterfuck of narcissism.

[EowynW]

The comments on today's post. These people. Ugh. 

Ken and Lori gave such a low view of women. They come right out the gate assuming they are stupid emotional sexually cold hags. 

I hate them. They don't minister. They hurt. 

[quiversR4hunting]

How long before Courtney's string gets deleted?

 

[AlwaysDiscerning]

Part of Ken's advice to hopeful wife

"I suggest you need great support from a godly group of women like in Lori’s Chat Room."

 

 

Get Spurgeon’s devotional to read, and when it comes time for devotions you both hop intro bed stark naked and read the the devotional and pray, then just cuddle with no expectations. Ask him if he wants a back massage, or enjoys light touch on his skin. At the end of the 10 – 15 minutes hop out of bed like a lightning bolt to end the time, again, no expectations.

First you should e doing devotions together anyway, and second, a relationship shouldn’t be about the sex but the closeness. Hopefully in time just as you are about to spring out of bed he grabs your arm and begins making love with you. Out of his own will, and no coercion, just because he can’t stay away from his totally wonderful wife.

Let us know how we may be able to coach you two. I do have an Always Learning Men’s Chat room but it is not real active, but he would be welcome to join. Keep winning him by your godly behavior. The pain must be awful, so take it to the cross of Jesus and place it there where it belongs. Know that He loves you early and hope, like I did for years that Christ will change your husbands heart and mind. The patience is worth it.

[EowynW]

Yes I really believe that that wife is struggling in some way. I know. I've been there. The past month was low for me. Losing my most favorite ever job due to the tornadoes, injuring both knees, Mr. EW job is stressful, sorting through toxic teachings from my T2 fundie upbringing and realizing how much it has affected me as an adult, cutting some of my supplements in order to save us money... yea. I struggled the past month. Thank God I am seeing the light now. 

Brian is on fire 

[laPapessaGiovanna]

 

1 hour ago, Koala said:

 Today Ken's whining about how these poor "godly guys" are suffering at the hands of their "misbehaving wives" and they need to dole out consequences.

If a wife is "disobedient" you: Whine to the internet.  Come up with consequences.  Consider separation.

Oh it's because he KNOWS that threatening divorce WORKS! He explicitly says that she will have to find a job! Lazy Lori transformed on the spot.

[Koala]

Wow...people are suggesting that one of the women Lori and Ken are gossiping about might be suffering from depression.

Because they are such upstanding counselors, Lori is divulging details that she should never be discussing just so she can be right.

Lori:

Quote

she's been to counseling and doctors and can behave perfectly with others but is in rebellion towards her kind husband.

Lori, what is your excuse for divulging the details of this woman's life on Facebook? You are airing her dirty laundry, and she doesn't even know about it to defend herself.

What kind of counselor or mentor runs to Facebook to tell her readers about the people she is counseling??

Oh my god, this is just so wrong.  

1 Timothy 5:13...that's what needs to be posted under Lori's comment.

And withal they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house; and not only idle, but tattlers also and busybodies, speaking things which they ought not.

Ken and Lori Alexander are nothing more than tattlers and busybodies, saying things they ought not. 

 

I am going to keep posting these, because Ken and Lori have really shown who they are this week.  

Brian (the first part is Brian quoting Ken Alexander):

Quote

“Once a husband establishes that he is not the problem, I can only assume that you would not expect him to go a lifetime trying to appease his wife’s temper tantrum, but instead find new avenues to lovingly demand that she treat him with a minimum of “common human decency” if she cannot treat him as a Christian wife should.”

I would agree, but on the other hand, you and your wife teach that wives should appease their husband in every way, including bad behavior, without any loving demands that he treat her well. You call it loving a husband well in a Christlike way. Therefore, why cannot a husband love his ill behaving wife the same Christlike way that you say wives should do? I’m genuinely curious. Not trying to start an argument. Loving in a long suffering way, seeking the best for the other person, even when they are behaving badly, and serving is the same no matter the gender.

 

[Free Jana Duggar]

28 minutes ago, EowynW said:

Yes I really believe that that wife is struggling in some way. I know. I've been there. The past month was low for me. Losing my most favorite ever job due to the tornadoes, injuring both knees, Mr. EW job is stressful, sorting through toxic teachings from my T2 fundie upbringing and realizing how much it has affected me as an adult, cutting some of my supplements in order to save us money... yea. I struggled the past month. Thank God I am seeing the light now. 

Brian is on fire 

Can I give Brian a hug?  The voice of reason.