Family Living on Purpose (FLOP) : Erika Shupe Pt 11

[Captain Obvious]

thanks Excat - it's good to know that the girls are going well and able to make good decisions.

The one thing that intrigues me though is the pants and dress code. What happened there? It's hard to see how that would have changed without a major accompanying change of beliefs, especially considering what you said Bob is like. Or did the skirts thing mainly come from Erika, and she just changed her mind about them?

[JermajestyDuggar]

I wonder if things just fell like dominos once Erika was sick and they went to public school. Maybe she wasn't all that "convicted" about skirts although she pretended to be. 

It seems that they were drawn to the control of the fundie lifestyle and not the religious/modesty part. Which I think many already suspected. They still want to control Karen and probably can't let that aspect go. I suspect they still control the lives of their children at home. 

[Howl]

Hoping that with the kids in public school, Erika has lots and lots of time to organize, clean, go grocery shopping and COOK so a lot of the sister mom responsibilities are not borne on Melanie's young shoulders. 

ETA: I also hope that Erika's health problems (low iron and B12) made them evaluate Erika's food controlling/food restrictions, so none of the kids are dealing with any form of borderline malnutrition. 

[lawlifelgbt]

@excat thanks for the update! Iron deficiency is serious, I once got it so badly (poor almost-vegetarian crappy student diet and recovering from disordered eating), that I could barely stand up one day.

I actually don't see a problem with Karen marrying young, and props to her for doing it her way, as long as they don't immediately start having kids. My grandmother was 19 when she got married and he is still the love of her life (but they waited four years for kids). My mother was 22. I was 23. All of us that wanted were able to pursue/finish higher ed, get and stay in the middle class, and our spouses aren't jerks.

But dude! Birth control!!! (whether that be NFP like grandma, BC like mom, or being queer like me). There's nothing wrong with marrying young and getting established together, just be smart and use it!

[JermajestyDuggar]

I'm just afraid Karen is jumping into marriage because she would never have sex before marriage. I've personally found that even if you go very liberal in lots of things, sex shaming of a woman runs deep. It's incredibly hard to shake (I say this from personal experience and I just grew up with a conservative Christian family and not fundie). Rushing into marriage because you want to have sex with the man you love is not a good reason. I hope that isn't the case. And I hope she at least uses some sort of protection. I imagine she's heard horrible things and hormonal birth control from the fundies she grew up around.

[Hisey]

1 minute ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I'm just afraid Karen is jumping into marriage because she would never have sex before marriage. I've personally found that even if you go very liberal in lots of things, sex shaming of a woman runs deep. It's incredibly hard to shake (I say this from personal experience and I just grew up with a conservative Christian family and not fundie). Rushing into marriage because you want to have sex with the man you love is not a good reason. I hope that isn't the case. And I hope she at least uses some sort of protection. I imagine she's heard horrible things and hormonal birth control from the fundies she grew up around.

Then Erica's going to get bitten in the butt when she doesn't get to meet her first grandchild. I have seen it happen so often--parents refuse to associate with their kid's partner, either because they don't like the partner's gender, or profession, or race, or family background, or religion, or education level or (in this case) because the partner did not come groveling to Bob first. 

Then a grandchild is born and the oldsters are like, "Oh, a baby! Everything is OK now!" But the younger couple never forgets and the relationship is wounded. Parents like that never apologize, they just act nice suddenly because they want to see the baby.

[nokidsmom]

15 hours ago, SuperNova said:

Openly rejecting the fiancee is a great way to get Karen to dig in her heels and not listen to anything that her parents may have to say. I don't think they could have found a surer way to drive an even bigger wedge between them and Karen if they tried.

Totally this.   IME, even when you maintain ties, you always remember how your parents acted towards your future husband at this time in your life.   But kudos to Karen on not allowing the whole Daddy approval crap anyway.  

[Hane]

@JermajestyDuggar, yup—this was me. Mainstream Catholic upbringing, but the WORST thing you could do was have premarital sex or live on your own before marriage. As my mom said, single girls on their own “might as well hang a red light in the window”—and she was a well-read, educated woman.

Lots of women in my family married at around 20 and stayed that way. Not me—got married at 20 because A) it was the only way to legitimize sex and B ) I was afraid of being an old maid, so we rushed into things, getting married five months after our first date.  Naturally, I learned that if our engagement had been a year longer, we never would have gotten married. We got our bachelor’s degrees and I got my MA not long after we married, and we got a pretty good kid out of the deal, so there’s that.

@nokidsmom, this was my parents. When my Baptist dad got engaged to my Catholic mom, he felt very strongly that “a gentleman defers to his wife’s religion,” and felt drawn to Catholicism anyway (for the record, Mom did not want him to convert). Dad’s entire Baptist family boycotted the wedding. Not long after, my dad’s mother wanted to mend fences and invited them to spend Christmas. Mom wanted to spit in her eye, but her own mother said, “You’re going to be married to this man a long time—be the bigger person.” She did, but her relationship with her MIL was never what it could have been.

[purjolok84]

It's sad that it had to come to health concerns for Erika primarily for the family to start making some changes - B and the younger kids will benefit being in school (I'm especially happy for B, because if you're into routines but someone else is telling you what to do/organising your possessions to the point where not much belongs solely to you/making you drink and eat food that may not feel or taste good in your mouth, then you've never had a routine!) and Karen has moved out and is living life. Hopefully Melanie can do this soon too. But why did this change have to result because Erika was having problems? Just proves again how selfish these people are.

Also,@elliha - fipple instead of fiddle? Love it! [emoji3]

[FJismyheadship]

@excat do you know anything about the supposed cps visit from a couple years ago?

[cara]

I'm dying to know what the bed situation is in that house. 

I recall a while back Melanie expressing dissatisfaction on social media about sleeping in the triple bunk. Are they still making her do it. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

Karen posted on fb that she recently changed her phone number. Speculation alert! I wonder if she's trying to avoid someone....

[picklepizzas]

And she seems to be leaving town, based in her posts about getting rid of clothes and buying a suitcase...

[usedbicycle]

• Changing phone number (maybe leaving a family plan?)
• Buying suitcase to do "a bit of traveling in the near future"
• Getting rid of a huge amount of clothing... 

I guess she's eloping and leaving town? @excat Didn't you mention her boyfriend was from Indiana and came to WA expressly to win her over? Maybe they're going back there together?

[JermajestyDuggar]

I agree her posts are sounding like she might be eloping and honeymooning in the very near future. I really hope she doesn't regret rushing into this. Her father could then say, "told you so." 

[Hisey]

3 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I agree her posts are sounding like she might be eloping and honeymooning in the very near future. I really hope she doesn't regret rushing into this. Her father could then say, "told you so." 

WEll, since her parents are refusing to meet the guy, it's likely Karen isn't going to confide any doubts to them. So there's no communication, no one to say "You can always wait if you're not sure, honey." Poor Karen. It's difficult to navigate adult life alone when you've been so sheltered.

OTOH, if she is eloping and planning to move elsewhere, then Erika and Bob have effectively cut themselves out of a good relationship with their adult daughter. Why would Karen choose to live nearby if they are being such assholes about wanting to "govern" the process?

[excat]

6 hours ago, usedbicycle said:

• Changing phone number (maybe leaving a family plan?)
• Buying suitcase to do "a bit of traveling in the near future"
• Getting rid of a huge amount of clothing... 

I guess she's eloping and leaving town? @excat Didn't you mention her boyfriend was from Indiana and came to WA expressly to win her over? Maybe they're going back there together?

That was what I was told. I know they're planning on getting married relatively soon, but who knows about the moving, etc. I know at one point K was strongly considering moving to Colorado (about the time she moved out), possibly to live with her aunt/uncle there.... I don't know, but I do hope whatever happens, she ends up living somewhere that she has a support system. 

Now that I think about, her fiance is in the military. I suppose it's possible that she's moving to wherever he is being shipped/deployed/something like that?

[mango_fandango]

She said she was going “travelling”. 

I just remember that post Erika did about cutting off Bob’s parents, and how she said there’d been a history of divorce on Bob’s side and they wanted to break that cycle. And now it looks as though Karen may possibly cut off contact with her parents, or at least be “low contact”. I’m not condoning E and B in any way, but I’m sure they love Karen (in a way) but they’re just going about things in completely the wrong way. 

I hope the other kids see what Karen is doing and can escape for themselves when they can. Melanie especially seems close to Karen. With the other kids in public school, they’ll be socialising and making friends and whatnot, it’s not like when they were homeschooled and Erika could properly control who they saw (ie hardly anyone unless they were family members or church friends).

[elliha]

Now it is a risk the have instead of a cycle of divorce have a cycle of people breaking contact with their parents. Not any better in my view.

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 hour ago, elliha said:

Now it is a risk the have instead of a cycle of divorce have a cycle of people breaking contact with their parents. Not any better in my view.

It's like the Jeubs. They started that cycle with their oldest and it seems like the first four daughters have allhad periods of no contact with their parents. The Jeubs first broke contact with their oldest because they didn't want her to influence the younger kids. That worked out well. Lol. 

[excat]

Quick update - just saw on K's facebook that she is apparently moving to Arizona. So, it would seem that the eloping/moving out of town theory is in fact the case.

[JillyO]

Wow, wow, wow. Karen has also confirmed in the comments that she is moving to Arizona to get married (soon, she says). I hope she isn't doing this just to spite her awful parents, and I wish her a lifetime of happiness. Hoping Melanie manages to get out of Shupe-istan as well asap. She must be lonely without Karen around, and with all the other siblings at school all day. Hopefully she can go to art school like she's always wanted.

[mango_fandango]

Ooh. Arizona is far from the very north of Washington!! Most of Erika’s family has stayed around the same area (except her sister in Colorado) so this is a BIG change.

[fundiefollower]

Karen and Melanie are in Hawaii with Erika's parents...... Erika is tagged in the post but no pics of her or Bob or any of the little kids.  Not sure if grandparents took the oldest girls alone or what is happening.  At first I thought Karen was eloping in Hawaii but then I saw the pics of the grandparents. 

 

eta: I saw Erika commented on the post about what an amazing gift this trip is.  Hopes she has a wonderful time, kiss everyone for her...  She calls her KK.

[lawlifelgbt]

5 hours ago, fundiefollower said:

Karen and Melanie are in Hawaii with Erika's parents...... Erika is tagged in the post but no pics of her or Bob or any of the little kids.  Not sure if grandparents took the oldest girls alone or what is happening.  At first I thought Karen was eloping in Hawaii but then I saw the pics of the grandparents. 

I really hope they like Hawaii! I loved it and it was very relaxing when I went. What island are they on? I went to Kauai. God knows those girls could use a trip to the beach!