Family Living on Purpose (FLOP) : Erika Shupe Pt 11

[feministxtian]

Its ok too if you think your mother is batshit crazy and won't see anything other than the plan SHE made for you. Its entirely possible that she will see you as a "failure" and "rebellious" for the rest of your life because you chose not to do what SHE wanted you to do. (I know this shit first hand). Just because she's your mother doesn't mean she knows what's going on in your head. Follow your dreams. Follow your talents. Its entirely possible that even if you're wildly successful at whatever you choose, she will still be disappointed. 

Don't be afraid to cut your parents out of your life if they become (or are) toxic. Don't fall for the gaslighting or other manipulation they may use. 

[Tatar-tot]

What I should have said a little more directly is that Karen is at an age where she can define her roll with her parents. It does not need to all or nothing.  It can be dropping by or via txt or an email or an occasional phone.  Karen can set her boundaries as she see fits. She can change them as life marches on.  

Relationships with most people are on a continuum from close to distant. It is Karen’s call on what boundaries she needs now to protect herself and maintain a relationship with her siblings. 

One more thing:  my dad who is the most level headed person I know has a coronary when my husband did not ask his permission to marry me.  I was 24 & my husband was 27.  We had been dating for 4 years.

 My dad was pro era and woman working in non traditional woman’s career.  I was shocked he got so upset.   He got over it but it definitely took a while to reconcile himself to the fact his daughter was getting married.  

[waltraute]

I don't think Karen is in need of much advice. She has already shown that she has the smarts to question facets of her upbringing and the strength to pull out from under that and succeed on her own.  That takes a grit that many do not possess. She has wits and grits, as my grandmother used to say, and has already succeeded.  She is out in the world like the rest of us and she will learn like we have, through trial and error and by making choices; maybe some great, maybe some iffy choices, but they will be hers alone to make.  Sometimes, our life path may deviate from what is considered the 'optimal' but that is not always a bad thing.  Sometimes a choice may seem like a bad one on the surface, but it might actually have been the best one for the moment. 

I came from a strict religious household.  Unlike Karen, I did not pull out on my own (I'm telling you, she is strong).  I married young to escape.  Bad idea?  Well, maybe.  I'm not sure I would have made it out otherwise.  I look at Karen and think, that's what you should have done - but at the time I was emotionally crushed and I did not possess the necessary 'wits and grits', so I'm going to go easy on my younger self.  Same with babies and schooling.  Now, I so wish I had gone on to higher education right off the bat - it would have made things much easier in the long run (I did finish up my schooling 20 plus years later).  But, in reality, I had been so overloaded with rules and guidelines and punishments - the strict controlling environment of my youth - that I could not have faced the discipline of college right away.  It would have seemed like more of the same and would have squeezed the life out of me.  So, I did what I could do with my available resources at the time, and yes, that meant consequences later on - but I think we all have to deal with that to some degree.

Karen has already successfully taken that hardest step.  I wish her a long and joyful journey.

[ILoveJellybeans]

Hello Karen and welcome to the forum! Well done for moving out and living life on your own terms.

[nelliebelle1197]

@Kilo whiskey pm @Destiny and she can get you verified. She is trustworthy, I promise!

[ActualReality]

In a funny sort of way this thread has become the Karen Schupe fan club. I kind of love it and find it really sweet. The haven’t read and bad advice here but will add that this young woman has already demonstrated the “wits and grits” to make her way in the world.

What’s amazing in all of this for me is that I was raised to believe that people out in “the world” were lost and terrible people. In my situation I moved to one of the biggest and meanest cities in the world and found it to be full of delightfully loving weirdo’s. The women that I met embraced and reparented me in a way that was profoundly loving and far superior to my original upbringing.

With all my heart I hope that Karen (and all of her siblings) are able to find the loving care they need and deserve.

[lawlifelgbt]

I can’t believe I missed this! I don’t know what to think of Karen; on the one hand I very much admire her breaking free, on the other hand, I had some really difficult experiences with people who are anti-gay/disagree with me politically (some post-election vandalism and minor violence), so a part of me reactively hates that part of her. But, I feel I can relate as well, since my mom especially was controlling though not fundie in similar ways, and I also ultimately rebelled via marriage.

I don’t know if she will see this, but some advice:

-If your mom is still really angry about you getting married, get hold of any identity documents immediately and make sure, personally, that your taxes are in order. My mom held onto my passport and etc. for me as a means of control until shortly before I got married, at 23. I could only borrow my identity docs for long enough to do paperwork, and because I had been gaslit and made to think I was disorganized and stupid, I let it go on. I had to threaten her to get my docs together in time to get married; she tried to hold them, and though she never said it, I think she still wanted to stop me marrying/traveling/changing jobs without her approval. I also have a real problem with math, so I never did my own taxes- dad did. When I needed that information to start existing as part of my own, adult family, dad tried to stick me with a huge IRS bill due to mistakes he had made doing mine. But...I wasn’t allowed to do them for myself, because I was just a stupid kid, yet i get all the consequences?

Sorry for the rant, parents can be awful with identity and establishment paperwork, so get your ducks in a row now!

 

-I don’t know, maybe you don’t do this, but I certainly ate everything in sight when I got away from my mom’s health and food control freak household. If that’s a problem for you, don’t ban any foods as “I can never eat X,” but practice moderation. Figure out your TDEE and stick to that to determine your eating. Because having to lose a bunch of weight is no fun!

 

-Your parents will eventually soften towards your spouse and marriage. Just treat them with respect, while maintaining boundaries for your sanity. Be involved in caring for your siblings/whoever you have. Make sure your parents see your partner loving and supporting you, and if possible, have him help your parents and family too. My mother’s attitude to my wife changed considerably after my grandmother, her mother, got suddenly really sick, and my wife went with me to the hospitals and nursing home visits, showed my mother sympathy for her pain, and tried to engage my grandmother even though her brain was/is sort of fried.

 

-You can screen parents’ calls. I did when my parents and I weren’t getting along. Don’t feel too bad about it.

 

-Perhaps this runs counter to your beliefs, but if you know someone with LGBT friends or that is themselves, ask them how they deal with their parents or with living on their own. Sadly, many of us still get kicked out altogether and have difficult relationships with parents, so there is that experience to draw on and learn from.

[Jellybean]

@Kilo whiskey my mother was not quite as controlling as yours, but controlling enough. It took me a long, long time to realise how much emotional and spiritual abuse had happened while I was growing up, and to be able to name it as such. 

Libby Anne, over at Love, Joy, Feminism grew up in a controlling fundie family, and also had problems when she got a boyfriend and refused to split up with him when ordered to do so by her parents. I found a lot of the early posts on her blog to be incredibly enlightening and validating. 

I’ve recommended this book all over the forum, but ‘you’re not crazy - it’s your mother’ by Danu Morrigan is wonderful for helping to understand which boundaries should have been present, but were broken, and how truly toxic some behaviours are. She also gives advice on how to establish safe boundaries with difficult parents. It helped me a great deal. 

[waltraute]

13 hours ago, lawlifelgbt said:

-Perhaps this runs counter to your beliefs, but if you know someone with LGBT friends or that is themselves, ask them how they deal with their parents or with living on their own. Sadly, many of us still get kicked out altogether and have difficult relationships with parents, so there is that experience to draw on and learn from.

Thank you for this reminder. I would imagine there are many similarities in what would seemingly be disparate situations. 

[mango_fandango]

I just thought of something. I wonder what Erika's attitude to TV is. She said they allowed pants so that the kids wouldn't be made fun of in school. I can imagine there's a lot of talk about TV programmes etc in school, and the kids have been exposed to that for the first time. I wonder if Erika is still as anti-TV as she was, and her kids can't take part in those discussions.

In fact, any kind of cultural references. I know the older kids have been exposed to some films/movies like Lord of the Rings, but others? What happens if the kids bring home a book Erika disapproves of? What if the kindergarteners/first graders have been dicussing shows like IDK Paw Patrol and Lacey and Lilly came home asking what they were? What if Brandon overhears his classmates talking about certain songs and he realises he's never heard of them? Admitting that you don't watch/listen to the things that are mainstream can be a source of derision. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

Erika has lost a lot of her control and isolation of the children since they are going to school. If she is still against tv and many fantasy books, her kids probably won't tell her about it. In public school, you are going to be exposed to lots of different types of books and kids even watch tv in the classroom on occasion. I am sure the kids have learned not to tell mommy everything that happens at school. Just like many other non fundie kids.

[usmcmom]

The whole "they'll be teased for wearing dresses" thing irked me. 

My kids went to school with several Pentacostal families. The girls all wore dresses and these kids were some of the most popular kids in the district. They were kind, funny, smart, well-rounded kids. I was friends with their mothers and, after reading Erika's reasoning, I asked them about their own kids. The girls did not get teased for wearing dresses or for never cutting their hair.  They did not get teased for anything concerning their religious beliefs.  

So, unless the Shupe daughters were the ONLY kids to EVER attend the school and wear dresses every day (you know; some kind of magical unicorn thing that the kids had never seen before) the other students probably never gave it a second thought.  I think it was Erika's preconceived ideas about "worldy" kids that made her assume her kids would be victimized by those evil public school heathens. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

I know a few little girls that just like dresses and skirts better. Therefore they wear dresses most of the time. Absolutely no one says a negative word about it. Actually people are usually positive about it because they think it's "cute."

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

Soooo late to the party! But welcome Karen. 

You are doing an amazing job, I’m a few years older than you and honestly wouldn’t have the guts you had to move out! It’s none of my business I know but I wonder how it all happened, did you always questions your Mums authoritarian rule? Did you think jellybeans were a crap reward? 

Anyway obviousy ignore me if you  want but I am fascinated. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

According to FB, Karen is in AZ now.

[anachronistic]

The thing that I love most when a person escapes and comes here is that for many of us at FJ, we have followed these families for years. We have worried, speculated, prayed, hoped for their health and happiness. We have been genuinely scared and saddened at the treatment they receive from their parents, because there is basically nothing that we can do to improve the situation for these poor, trapped human beings. So when someone gets the strength to leave and reveals that FJ has been helpful to them - well, it is just lovely. It is like a weight being taken off our shoulders. This is one family that will be okay. This is one daughter who is free. 

Karen, thank you for coming here and sharing your story. It needs to be told. The dangers of Christian fundamentalism in the US are not widely known, and your story is truly inspiring. I think I can speak for most of us when I say: we are really, really glad that you are here.

[church_of_dog]

 

Quote

And look at Melanie with her "I solemnly swear I am up to no God" Harry Potter shirt! 

On 3/16/2018 at 3:48 AM, DutchMommy said:

You forgot a letter, and it's awesome!!

On 3/16/2018 at 8:17 AM, amandaaries said:

 That may be my best typo ever! 

See now,

I haven't read Harry Potter and I just assumed the quote was punnily correct as @amandaaries wrote it.  I was most intrigued! 

[DaisyD]

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