Lori Alexander 19: Hating Birth Control, Consistency, and Logic

[BlackSheep]

7 hours ago, onemama said:

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 God is the one who said that woman are easily deceived

Where, Lori?  1st Timothy  "And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression" ? It does NOT say that all women are easily deceived, it says that EVE was deceived. EVE. But whatever. 

 

Yeah, "Eve" equals "all women". Unreal.

And how about Adam? If he was the head of the woman, the stronger vessel, and not easily deceived, then why didn't he say NO to that piece of fruit? They both knew that weren't to eat from that tree.

Genesis 3:6 says:

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...she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

No mention that she forced Adam to eat the fruit. Or that she lied to him about what it was. She gave it to him, and he chose to eat it.

[EowynW]

34 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Get ready for the Lemonade episode. If you like Beyoncé, you'll love that episode. It was hilarious.

Yes! The church and the hold up episode were great too. 

[Granwych]

9 hours ago, TeddyBonkers said:

No guy ever died from a case of blue balls.

Indeed.  Reliefs right at his fingertips...(and palm, etc.)

[Pink Muffin]

There are these interesting questions on Loris FB page by a lady

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 J W: Honest question... what do you make of male bible teachers who don't interpret the bible the same way you do? 

I think this is quite problematic

Gilla

 · Svara · 

1

 · 1 tim

J W: For but one example... NT Wright is probably the top New Testament scholar in the world, and he interprets I Timothy 2 differently to you.

So does this mean he's more likely to be right because he's a man?

You can see it's a catch-22.

http://ntwrightpage.com/.../womens-service-in-the-church.../

What to you think Lori is going to do, answer or delete?  My guess is she will delete 

[EowynW]

Ooooooh I can't wait to see how this goes down. 

[BlackSheep]

29 minutes ago, EowynW said:

Ooooooh I can't wait to see how this goes down. 

Sipping my morning coffee and monitoring the situation.

[AlwaysDiscerning]

Reader (female):

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Seems like God led me to this page for a reason...I serve as an associate pastor and teacher of the word in this young church that's almost 2years old. The lead Pastor and visionary is a woman of God that I respect and stand with in this ministry, right from inception of the church. What would be your take and advice on this situation, seeing I have grown spiritually stronger, and feel I was led by God into this ministry from it's onset as a home fellowship...to it being a young church now? @ The Transformed Wife

 

Lori:

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Elders are to be the husband of one wife according to the Lord so I would look for another church quickly if I were you!

What the hell is she trying to say?? She has the most generic responses.

[EowynW]

But in the Greek it doesn't read quite that way. 

[BlackSheep]

Comment posted 27 minutes ago:

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I can't believe how blind and obtuse people here are. Oh wait: yes I can, I just remembered TTW blocks everyone who disagrees with her!

 

[AlwaysDiscerning]

Any updates on the comments by JW? I think they are gone now. 

Her post today is about teaching men through her blogging...claiming she doesn't do that of course. 

[BlackSheep]

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I realize that this is not a popular position and there are many women teaching the Bible. I am not standing in judgment of them because these are my convictions from studying the Word.

So because it's her conviction, it's totally okay that she can Bad Mouth Women Preachers.

Right.

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I try hard to stay focused upon women’s issues and roles and anything to do with the home and health. 

Like destroying countertops with hot pots. Like bringing a lemon tree inside so that it could be protected and flourish. Like getting a carpet that never needs to be vacuumed.

8 minutes ago, AlwaysDiscerning said:

Any updates on the comments by JW? I think they are gone now. 

Her post today is about teaching men through her blogging...claiming she doesn't do that of course. 

Yep, deleted. Surprise!

Morning coffee finished. I'm going to get some things done around the house and then leave for WORK. Cuz I work. So that we can pay the bills, keep the lights on, feed ourselves, and keep our 40-year-old house that has a water leak in the basement near the electrical box - the source of which we haven't yet found.

I follow the teachings of Jesus, who moved among the downtrodden, struggled, and died for me. I don't follow the teachings of a privileged woman who deletes those who disagree with her. Jesus didn't have a delete key.

[AlwaysDiscerning]

Well this is amusing for anyone who can get through Ken's long winded reply:

Joe Compton says:

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May 24, 2017 at 3:22 pm

Hi Lori! I appreciate your calling, and your serious commitment to it. Here’s a multi-part study from Fuller (maybe you’ve already read it…) that can lend some more depth and context to the women preacher/teacher subject. I’m not big on ‘titles’ but You can be sure that David Scholar has studied, studied, studied the Word, compared/contrasted many different translations and has prayerfully formulated his thesis. I hope you can take a read (its long) and if you feel led, follow up on his exegesis and citations.

http://fuller.edu/womeninministry/

PS: Full disclosure, I’m not totally unbiased here. 
My wife has been on Young Life regional leadership staff for 20 years and has shared Jesus with many hundreds of high school and college age students of all genders and Jesus has definitely blessed her ministry.

Reply

 

Ken says:

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May 24, 2017 at 5:47 pm

Hi Joe,

Lori asked me to take your comment… having passed up on Fuller, and I went to Talbot instead, in large part because of Fuller’s walking away from the traditional Biblical Pauline views on the role of women in the church. Back then the argument was “cultural” and was controversial even within Fuller itself with one main prof espousing the views that Paul was not speaking for God as it relates to the universal church, but only his little backwards churches. So, God in his infinite wisdom did not see fit to give us a clear understanding of what role women were to take on, and the church missed God’s message for 2000 years, but this professor and others finally got God’s message… and it’s all about exactly what feminism is teaching!

Please excuse my attempt at humor… but it does sadden me that much of the church has now followed along some 35 years later, including those who are close to me who have graduate degrees from Fuller and no longer follow Jesus. The old Howard Lindsell’s Slippery Slide he prophetically exposed has come true in our churches… and is being lived out even by well-intended Christians who love the Lord. Once the authority of God’s Word, especially the Word as understood throughout the centuries, gets twisted and thrown out, the underpinnings of faith get rocked, and I do wonder how many graduates from Fuller still love the Lord compared to those who went to Biola or Dallas.

Let’s take the articles in question… the first part I have no issues with it… and second part completely disagree with this quote:

“The word ‘helper,’ then, is not to be understood as an expression of submission and service to man; rather, the woman as helper serves God with man. ”

Wait a minute? So, Eve was not to be Adam’s helper but was to be God’s helper? Oh, help me Lord! How do people come up with this stuff? The fact that God is called our Helper in 29 places in scripture has nothing to do with the context of Eve as Adam’s helper. Of course, the whole church for 2000 years missed this important point and God allowed this misunderstanding because … Some needs should tackle that question someday. How God is so unclear with what He is trying to communicate to us that he can leave men in charge of families and the church for 2000 years, all because he wasn’t clear enough in His Word?

Scholar goes on and says, “The statements of judgment for disobedience (Genesis 3:14–19) are descriptive ones of future realities, which involved a supremacy/subjection relationship between man and woman. These statements are not creation mandates; rather, the relationship of mutuality, partnership, and equality portrayed in Genesis 1:1–3:7 is now sadly marred by sin. ”

I have wondered about very thing. What if God saying “he will rule over you” … referring to Adam ruling Eve, “what if this is part of the curse… or a result of the fall, and NOT God’s desire and design???!”

Again, Scholar is doing some gymnastics here to try to get things the way he wants them to be… not what the Word teaches. How do we know that? God had every opportunity to set the record straight with the coming of the church and what does God do? He has his top theologian, the apostle Paul writing authoritatively, “Wives submit to your husbands in everything” and ” I do not permit a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man.”

I would say God was pretty clear here, even at a time God should have, according to Scholar, set the record straight that “it was NOT Eve who sinned first and was more easily deceived, but God never intended for male leadership in the family or the church.” It’s not like God just stayed silent on this matter that Scholar now has figured out 6000 years later, it’s that God doubled down on what He intends for male leadership in the church and family when He starts the church with primarily Paul’s and Peter’s theology. And let’s not forget Peter jumping on the wrong side of God’s intention too when he writes: “Likewise, wives, be subject to your own husbands” and “For this is how the holy women who hoped in God used to adorn themselves, by submitting to their own husbands, as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord. And you are her children, if you do good and do not fear anything that is frightening.” Can it get more clear than that Mr. Scholar?

I have no issue with Scholar’s part 3 of his article and his conclusion: “Jesus’s inclusion of and ministry to and through women within his own life and teaching were a powerful witness to the early church of the partnership of women and men within its membership and ministry.”

Jesus certainly did raise the status of women in His day and treated them with respect. Christ and Christianity has done more for women than any other religion or manner of thought. Women are indeed equal as persons before God, but God also outlined an order of things, not because He favors man, but because it is what is His best for the church and society.

Here again Scholar pretends to be scholarly by pointing out that the participation of women with Jesus in his ministry, and women being the first to proclaim Christ had risen. Even the Samaritan woman evangelizing her whole town. All great things, but all “red herrings” leading the untrained mind to believe that somehow A + B = 23, when A and B are not even numbers. Just because something may make sense it does not mean it invalidates what God’s Word clearly teaches.

The numbers God gives show up clearly in His Word and just as clear as what God says about husband leadership and male leadership in the church. Let’s take a look at the numbers:

Jesus chose how many women to be His disciples? Oh, if there had just been one, just one who Jesus counted among His inner circle and so much of this argument could have been put to rest. But again, God chose to be very unclear by choosing 12 men and zero women to do the ministry of teaching and preaching.

How about the number of women who wrote a piece of the Bible? How about the number who had a sermon or a letter in the Bible? How about the number of women elders that were selected to run the early church? How about throughout all of God’s dealing with mankind, up until the last 35 years of course, how many women did God chose for leadership?

One may be able to, as Scholar does, go grasping for straws on this question and find a Deborah and Priscilla, even a Phoebe, Junas, add them all up and assume they were ministers, you will not find one who is said to be a leader of a church, in a church, or teaching a man. Not one.

So in conclusion, my God has always been quite clear with me and on the few things I find unclear, I assume that He does not want us to know everything just yet. Scholar and all the others who want to define women’s equality as not having to accept male leadership in their home or church are being dishonest with the Word, history and themselves. The best one can do on this subject from the view Scholar is taking is to be honest enough to accept that God’s intent was indeed male leadership and yet, somehow in these latter days, God has poured out His Spirit and gifted women to step in because men just can’t or won’t do the job. That is a we are in a new era of time that now falls OUTSIDE of the boundaries of God’s clear revelation. That God did not intend the church to believe in male leadership longer than 1950 years, and now new revelation has arrived. At least this would be an honest population even as it would have all Christians now scrabbling to “do what was right in their eyes.” Because God told me so, or gave me this special revelation. And is this not what we are really seeing out there in the church. The Self-justification of why your wife and her ministry does not fit with the clear teaching of the Word.

I will say that I am personally not as concerned about a woman participating in para-church functions. Lori will disagree with me on this as the church universal is the church, but one can be on safer ground and postulate that outside of the local church, or governing church body, the Bible can be seen as silent as to women in ministry. We certainly know that women missionaries have been effective in evangelism, and that evangelism should be part of every Christian’s walk with the Lord. So, if you and your wife can somehow reconcile before the Lord that she is not “teaching men or exercising authority over them” then you are welcome to take that up with the Lord. My strong caution would be to not allow the poor scholarship and reasoning of men like Scholar who have an agenda they want to meet, as opposed to honestly dealing with the Word, and letting it speak clearly and definitively to you. We need to see through the bias and poor arguments on the subject to simply say, “Lord, thy will be done,” not mine. If Jesus can go to a cross desiring to fulfill each and every word God had spoken, we should be doing the same, even when it doesn’t fit with our desires and what we think of as potential in life. After all is said and done, Jesus and God’s Word are inseparable. Let’s not let the latest feminist outcry push us into “culturally” making God’s Word and church history all wrong on this important matter. Instead, let’s assume that gifted women like yours and mine do indeed have a great place in God’s ministries, it’s just not in teaching men or exercising authority over them in the church.

Did you know the Conways with Young Life in the past? We love that couple! Blessings to you both… we love Young Life!

 

 

[EowynW]

That reply made me picture violently stabbing Ken with a pitchfork and then watching the shit he's full of ooze out of him. 

These disgusting people aren't even worth the time to show other views. 

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

Ken writes (bolding mine):  "I will say that I am personally not as concerned about a woman participating in para-church functions. Lori will disagree with me on this..."

But...But.. But.  Ken is her headship!  She's supposed to follow him and agree with him in everything.  Lori even votes like Ken does so she is following his leadership.

How can she possibly disagree with him on this issue??!!  If she disagrees, she's not being submissive.. And if she's not being submissive on this issue .... them maybe she's not submissive on other issues  ... Or at all ......  Eeeek.

Oh laws a mercy, My head is whirling.  I feel faint.  i must take to my chaise and rest. The thought of Lori contradicting herself or being hypocritical is almost too much to bear.

[Koala]

Exactly.  Didn't she recently tell a reader to "decide" to agree with her husband?  Seems to me she should just decide to agree with Ken.  After all, she's just an easily deceived woman.

[EowynW]

16 minutes ago, Koala said:

 Exactly.  Didn't she recently tell a reader to "decide" to agree with her husband?  Seems to me she should just decide to agree with Ken.  After all, she's just an easily deceived woman.

She told me that. She, Ken & Trey ganged up on me one time in the comments telling me exactly that because I voted differently than Mr. EW. 

[Koala]

12 minutes ago, EowynW said:

She told me that. She, Ken & Trey ganged up on me one time in the comments telling me exactly that because I voted differently than Mr. EW. 

Another case of, "do as I say, not as I do".  She'd never dream of living the life she wants for her readers.

[December]

On 5/24/2017 at 7:38 AM, quiversR4hunting said:

And if you want to see stats on pre-marriage births from the 1930s and on go here: https://www.census.gov/prod/99pubs/p23-197.pdf Again, Lori is right, I bet none of those women kissed or petted before marriage.

So true, even though I'm sure she wouldn't buy into the statistics. But it's been like this forever, there's always been premarital sex (maybe has something to do with the fact we're built with a biological urge for sex?!), even in very sexually repressive societies. I've got some unwed mothers in my family tree from hundreds of years ago and like you said I'm pretty sure they weren't virgin births. Or maybe my heritage is just that special? It may be more socially acceptable and open now but in olden times it's not like people didn't know it was happening. They just tended to wink at it as long as people got married before there was a "premature" baby, passed it off as the young woman's sibling, or packed the woman off to a home for unwed mothers. Because as the stats show, there weren't just millions of births to unwed mothers, there were also lots and lots of children conceived out of wedlock whose parents married in the interim. Not to mention how many people probably had sex on top of those numbers that, for whatever reason, didn't result in a recorded birth. 

[Koala]

Gotta love the two men who chimed in to say that they're just there to monitor what their wives read.

Is there somewhere in the Bible that advises men to police their wives the same way they would police a particularly ignorant child?  Why would a grown woman need to have the blogs she reads "monitored".  That's not a marriage, that's parenting.

 

[EowynW]

After reading Ken and Lori smackdown a man who warned Lori to be sure to ask God to show and teach her instead of just relying on the Bible, I realized that ken & Lori are of that crazy but all too common branch of Christians who put the Bible above the guiding Holy Spirit. They don't believe the lord can teach and lead you personally but that Bible is the highest teacher and authority 

[RosyDaisy]

My husband knows better than to try that net nanny shit with me. We don't monitor each others internet activities. However, we do have some blogs and sites that we read together because they are of mutual interest.

[TeddyBonkers]

Fundie dream alert!

So there I was attending Lori's 49th birthday party. We all KNEW it wasn't her 49th birthday party, but we had to pretend that it was. She had completely remodeled her house for this spectacular event. For some reason, all the tables (and there were a lot of them) had glass tops which she instructed us very harshly not to put fingerprints on.

And then it got weird....

Not only did someone leak a blueprint of Lori's new house to the press, which got her SUPER mad, there were some very interesting attendees at the party. For example, my husband and I, my old squad leader, someone I went to high school with, and my husband's old battalion commander. We were all pretty drunk and putting fingerprints on all of the glass tabletops, telling war stories and being excessively egalitarian.

BEST PARTY EVER. I was pretty bummed to wake up, to be honest!

[OldFadedStar]

2 hours ago, EowynW said:

After reading Ken and Lori smackdown a man who warned Lori to be sure to ask God to show and teach her instead of just relying on the Bible, I realized that ken & Lori are of that crazy but all too common branch of Christians who put the Bible above the guiding Holy Spirit. They don't believe the lord can teach and lead you personally but that Bible is the highest teacher and authority 

 

 

Not just any bible.. only the King James Bible will do! Any other version is garbage....

[HoneyBunny]

That litany by Ken exhausted me. Not that I read one word of it, mind you. But my scrolling finger got a real workout. 

[Seahorse Wrangler]

6 hours ago, Koala said:

Gotta love the two men who chimed in to say that they're just there to monitor what their wives read.

Is there somewhere in the Bible that advises men to police their wives the same way they would police a particularly ignorant child?  Why would a grown woman need to have the blogs she reads "monitored".  That's not a marriage, that's parenting.

 

I'd better get my 12yo son to monitor what I do on the Internet PDQ..Or should I ask my BIL???

 

Lori , help a poor widow woman out here..