Seewalds 22 - Funerals and Embryo Cake

[singsingsing]

33 minutes ago, Four is Enough said:

I've said this before, I'll say it again, I simply don't understand WHY they write, video, and post these greetings to someone with whom they LIVE...

[snip]

WHY do they do that?

Because it's their "ministry", and also their livelihood. Their livelihood depends on their ability to sell themselves and their lives in an appealing way to their masses of followers. I can't imagine living like that, personally, but that's basically their motivation in a nutshell.

[melon]

Remember when Jessa announced her second pregnancy?She said I am more like my Mom.

Meaning: She may be having one baby after another,in the 13 month,15 month, 18 month range...like her Mother did.

She lets Henry use a pacifier,we don't know if he is having bottles.What I am saying is this: And it isn't foolproof.By using the pacifier,bottles..she isn't exclusively breastfeeding,her period,and her fertility can and will return sooner.Maybe Anna and Jill breastfed exclusively longer,or rarely used bottles, who knows.I am not bashing them for their choice to use a pacifier or bottles.

Michelle claimed her menses always returned around 6 weeks.MIne did too,with my oldest son,We did not get off to a good start,nursing,he did not gain the first month..my pediatrician told me to nurse,then supplement,I did,but once he had bottles ,regularly..he would got to town on the bottle,and hardly nurse.I blamed myself,I felt ignorant and like I had failed my son.The second time,I educated myself.I am by no means the authority on breastfeeding but I can tell you what happened to me....my menses did not return with my second son ,until he was 15 months old.I exclusively breastfed him,no pacifier,I tried a bottle ,once and that was a no go...he did not get solids until he  was 6 months old,my grandmother was utterly concerned about his weight...he weighed 21 lbs at 6 months...she thought he was doomed..to be overweight..with my third son,again...exclusive,until about 4 to 5 months,no pacifier,but he'd take a bottle,if hungry and only from someone other than me...my period did not return until he was 14 months old.Another big baby,people used to admire them ask me what I fed them,or act like they were destined to be on My 600lb life.

I am about 5'5 when I was 18,I weighed about 128,which is not a bad weight,for me...I had people telling me,I needed to lose weight,my grandmother thought I should get down to 110lb,she could not understand that I did not have the same body type as my aunt,by marriage,and my cousins,this aunts daughters ,have a body type more like mine,than their mother.

 

[crazysnark]

Jill was nursing Israel passed a year old. I honestly think Jill breastfed for as long as she did to hold off getting pregnant until 18 months so she could try for a vbac. If she delivers vaginally this time I am almost certain she will get pregnant at 6 months- 9 months post partum. 

[justmy2cents]

@crazysnark My mom was still nursing my 9 month old sister when she got pregnant with me.  She didn't realize she was pregnant til I kicked her half way through the pregnancy. Nursing shouldn't be used as birth control, not past 6 months anyway.

[melon]

As I said,it isn't foolproof.What worked for me,may not have worked for someone else.

My mother got pregnant with my older brother ,while nursing my oldest brother.

I knew a woman from church,and her period didn't return,she was nursing one baby got pregnant with another.

But there are some women,like I was,that nursing supresses their ovulation.

I did not use birth control after my second son,had unprotected sex,and did not get pregnant until my period returned.But that's me.

And my mother thought I was playing russian roulette.

 

[Timetostoplurking]

45 minutes ago, justmy2cents said:

@crazysnark My mom was still nursing my 9 month old sister when she got pregnant with me.  She didn't realize she was pregnant til I kicked her half way through the pregnancy. Nursing shouldn't be used as birth control, not past 6 months anyway.

I got prego with my 2nd while nursing my 1st.  (My first was only 5months old). I didn't know I was pregnant for months because I never got my period.  I just went  right into the next pregnancy.  (No problem for me, I was happy to have another baby). So, yes, nursing is not reliable birth control.   But to a tired, stressed out fundie mom, it's really the only option her headship may allow her.  Ugh!!  Just writing that makes me a bit sick.  

[PennySycamore]

Breastfeeding/lactation amenorrhea can be used as part (or even all) of a nursing mother's family planning, but the woman needs to know what is involved in it.  It requires that all of the baby's sucking needs be met at the breast, that no effort is made to night wean the child or get them to sleep through the night, baby should sleep close to the mother, mother practices baby wearing and baby-led weaning, and so on.  Most working mothers find that frequent pumping is not as effective at delaying return of menses.  It helps if the mother who wishes to use lactation amenorrhea  knows about the signs of returning fertility and realize that while most mothers have an anovulatory period or two before periods return regularly, there is a 1%- 5% chance of the the first period will be fertile.

Having said that,  I personally don't recommend that nursing mothers rely solely on lactation amenorrhea to plan their families.   Diaphragms, condoms and IUDs exist for a reason.  Some doctors are not fond of hormonal contraceptives for breastfeeding moms because it can negatively affect the milk supply.

ETA:  Mothers who practice "ecological mothering" ala Sheila Kippley may experience about 18 months or more of lactation amenorrhea.  The !Kung people in southern Africa traditionally have their babies spaced about more than 3 years apart due to lactation amenorrhea.  My grandmother had 10 children spread over more than 20 years (most of the kids were about 2 years apart)  and I would imagine that  nursing played a role in the spacing of the kids.

[VelociRapture]

@PennySycamoreMy OBGYN said it was mostly estrogen based contraception that could cause a decrease in supply or a change in the milk. The minipill usually isn't an issue since its progestin only.

My Doctor prescribed the minipill while I was breastfeeding, but I hated it. I As so much trouble remembering to take it, even using multiple alarms. And I didn't get a period on it. I took it for one month and immediately switched to an estrogen based pill after that. It worked out because I stopped breastfeeding around that time anyway (did my best for three months and just couldn't do it anymore.)

[PennySycamore]

@VelociRapture, you're right about the progestin-only pill usually being safe during breastfeeding. It's been common for moms, especially low income mom,s to get a Depo-Provera shot right after delivery.  Their milk supplies often tank and there is not a thing that can be done about it.  I don't know what the current practice  is though.  Doctors who work with low income mothers may insert an IUD at the 6 week checkup now.

[sawasdee]

My grandparents were very poor, and she had a child every two years - 11 of them. But she had abundant milk, and back in the early 1900s til 1920s she was a wet nurse to wealthy families - she had enough milk for two. This not only kept the family afloat, but I think also explains her two year gaps.

[Henk12]

I will be interested to see how soon Jessa and Jill get pregnant with #3. I can't imagine what it does to your body when you keep getting pregnant every 6 months. My boys are 17 months apart and it wore. Me. Out. We waited until my middle was 2 before we got pregnant again. I'm absolutely amazed by these women who have a million kids that close in age. I wonder what it does to their body? I have almost zero bladder control after three kids, is Michelle walking around in depends?! 

But seriously, I wish there were studies done on women with 10+ kids. The human body is amazing. 

[December]

On 5/20/2017 at 8:40 AM, singsingsing said:

Their livelihood depends on their ability to sell themselves and their lives in an appealing way to their masses of followers.

 

Yep, all these things are "proof" to the fans that everything is going nicely. Not to mention, when you have so many birthdays to celebrate each year, it probably becomes a rote exercise. 

[melon]

Henk,I have a friend who has 5 kids.Three are grown,the two younger are in their teens.She also had two miscarriages,so she was pregnant a total of 7 times.

She has poor bladder control.If we go out,she constantly has to to go the bathroom and yes,she does wear depends.

She is planning to have surgery,not sure of the correct term,but they tack the bladder back up.My MIL had it done,and two of my sisters in law had it done as well.

[Carm_88]

1 hour ago, December said:

Yep, all these things are "proof" to the fans that everything is going nicely. Not to mention, when you have so many birthdays to celebrate each year, it probably becomes a rote exercise. 

That makes me laugh. I wonder do they have reminders "It's Josiah's birthday. Don't forget to film a video!" 

[marmalade]

Wrong thread. oops! 

 

[FrozenSmile]

4 hours ago, Carm_88 said:

That makes me laugh. I wonder do they have reminders "It's Josiah's birthday. Don't forget to film a video!" 

They have a birthday wall at the TTH, does that count? I can't imagine having to keep up with that many dates!

[foreign fundie]

Been thinking about the letter. At first it seemed remarkably sincere and very well written for a barely schooled Duggar. Almost to the point I suspect she had some help. Also very sweet, although obviously over the top and raising the question WHY she shares this with a billion strangers. 

But there is something amiss. It is almost likes she rewrites her love story to make it palatable for normal people. For if you did not know better, this is an initmite story of a young boy pursuing a beautiful girl and winning her heart. Did y'all notice JB was not mentioned once? Although we know he plays a major part. Also there were no chaperones in her story. It sounded like they had these intimate dates where they discussed their future. 

Maybe this is what she would have liked her courtship to be like,  devoid of the parts she does not want to remember, the intrusion of her father. Or maybe it is a sanitized version for the public. But leaving her father out of it, with his vetting, his talks, his control and permissions, it just seems odd. 

[MadeItOut]

5 hours ago, FrozenSmile said:

They have a birthday wall at the TTH, does that count? I can't imagine having to keep up with that many dates!

People are always struck with us remembering their birthdays, but if it's written in the diary you do just get a grip with the pattern over time (it's also sometimes handy to know you wrote that letter between x and y's birthday on a Tuesday).

[Snarkylark]

I bf my four babies exclusively. My period usually returned at about 9 months. And to jump in on another conversation, I don't have any problems with bladder control. Kegels are great!

[TeamDefraudinSquad]

8 hours ago, foreign fundie said:

Been thinking about the letter. At first it seemed remarkably sincere and very well written for a barely schooled Duggar. Almost to the point I suspect she had some help. Also very sweet, although obviously over the top and raising the question WHY she shares this with a billion strangers. 

But there is something amiss. It is almost likes she rewrites her love story to make it palatable for normal people. For if you did not know better, this is an initmite story of a young boy pursuing a beautiful girl and winning her heart. Did y'all notice JB was not mentioned once? Although we know he plays a major part. Also there were no chaperones in her story. It sounded like they had these intimate dates where they discussed their future. 

Maybe this is what she would have liked her courtship to be like,  devoid of the parts she does not want to remember, the intrusion of her father. Or maybe it is a sanitized version for the public. But leaving her father out of it, with his vetting, his talks, his control and permissions, it just seems odd. 

I think this is an accurate analysis of Jessa's motivation in posting her note to Ben as publically as she did. I also think that shes attempting to convey to her her detractors that courting  Ben, instead of dating him the secular way, didn't harm her marriage to him, and that they are still very much in love, even though (in 99.9% of secular people's opinions) they didn't get to know each other well enough before getting married or having kids. We always say on FJ that fundies get married too soon and too fast, so I am guessing theres also an element of smugness in her posting this note too, like maybe Jessa struggled with the days dragging on when she was engaged, but she did things the "Godly" way, dammit, so now she's going to be the shining example to the world about how to "do life together" (as she puts it) as "Good Christians." Jessa probably believes shes teaching her instagram followers something about having a successful, happy marriage by sharing that note, instead of what a lot of us actually see when we read that note (i.e. what foreign fundie describes above.)

[Carm_88]

Ben's family has been visiting. Henry and his Aunt Michelle. Not to be confused with Mullet, his grandmother. 

[Markie]

Looks like Ben's sister goes to Grace Bible College, or she knows someone who does...  

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

I just love fat baby cheeks! 

[choochoo]

Seems to say Grace Bible Church.  Looks like an H not an O and there is a Grace Bible Church in Arkansas.  

[JesSky03]

That birthday post definitionely had an FUinternetz feel to it. I got the feeling she was trolling us when she mentioned the parking lot reception with ice cream in November.