Tim Robertson and Tabitha Paine: April Fool's?

[jcanglin991]

I'm trying to figure out how to say this, so bear with me. It can be okay to lower your standards if they are society's  standards, I.e., about superficial things such as money or looks. A guy with a regular job that doesn't look like a movie star can be a great husband and father. I picked one over a couple that had more of what society tells us is important and have never regretted it. However, never settle in terms of what you feel is important morally, never settle for someone who has a  record of being violent or emotionally abusive. Obviously, rapists are out. It's possible to be terribly lonely even with a partner, so don't make a life changing decision out of the desire to avoid being alone. We all deserve to be with someone who thinks we are the greatest thing ever, and our children deserve parents who love and respect each other.

[lawfulevil]

52 minutes ago, jcanglin991 said:

IIt's possible to be terribly lonely even with a partner, so don't make a life changing decision out of the desire to avoid being alone.

I think you could easily argue that the kind of loneliness you feel in a long-term relationship with someone you don't actually click with is much deeper and more miserable than the loneliness from being single. My first husband became deeply addicted to World of Warcraft shortly after our marriage, and I have never in my whole life felt as stunningly and totally alone as I did once that happened- if you're single there's the hope that the situation will change. You could meet someone. You could make new friends. You could take up a hobby. When you have nobody else you have to consider or answer to, it's much easier to make those changes.

Once you're married if you feel alone, all the paths in front of you are incredibly hard, and all the decisions are made by a committee that doesn't agree on anything.

And don't get me started on the idiots some of the people I know had kids with- having a child does not, as it turns out, magically turn your dumbass partner into an adult.

Edited April 3, 2017 by Coconut Flan
Snipping excess quote.

[Emkay]

8 hours ago, ophelia said:

THIS! So much! And as I'm getting closer to 30 in big steps I see a lot of wonderful single woman in my life that seemingly lower their standards concerning boyfriends, husbands, baby daddies, whatsoever just because they are afraid to maybe end up alone and childless. I'm often afraid to end up the same way, because I've been single really long and would love to be in a relationship and I want kids rather sooner than later.

I have a couple of friends that I'm seeing this with. I'm in my early thirties and single, and they're a year or two younger than me- one married two years and just announced a baby on the way, one engaged and planning a wedding with a fundie-length engagement- 3-ish months, with a 'usual' (for our group) religiously conservative wedding- my guess is between 100-150, catered buffet-style reception. Their men are about as useful as Ben Seewald, and both women are the breadwinners and very successful in their chosen fields- but I know they want that husband and children lifestyle and see/saw their partners as 'good matches (personality and likes/dislikes wise)' and went for it. 

[eveandadam]

34 minutes ago, Emkay said:

I have a couple of friends that I'm seeing this with. I'm in my early thirties and single, and they're a year or two younger than me- one married two years and just announced a baby on the way, one engaged and planning a wedding with a fundie-length engagement- 3-ish months, with a 'usual' (for our group) religiously conservative wedding- my guess is between 100-150, catered buffet-style reception. Their men are about as useful as Ben Seewald, and both women are the breadwinners and very successful in their chosen fields- but I know they want that husband and children lifestyle and see/saw their partners as 'good matches (personality and likes/dislikes wise)' and went for it. 

I see this with both men and women but more the women in my circle of friends and family. With women it starts really early around 25. I have a friend who is brilliant (brilliant  in the sense of genius!) who was asked to work in the U.S. for a butt load of  money and great career prospects and was admired to no end, there. Men were standing in line to go on a date with her because she is nice, interesting and beautiful. But she was 25 at that point and thought she was too old to make such a big step, can you imagine? So she married her high school sweetheart who is 6 years older than her within a year of returning from the U.S. He is an ok guy who can sometimes be an entitled jerk, but overall, he is allright (we still don't get along that well after 20 years of knowing each other).

I remember a phone call from her. She called from the U.S.  a week before returning to Germany. She confessed that she'd had an affair there with another guy and doesn't know how to tell her boyfriend at home. A few weeks earlier, her boyfriend visited her in the U.S. and proposed. She told me that she just didn't know how to say no, so she said yes. In the phone call she cried and didn't know whether to stay in the U.S. with a great but unpredictable future ahead or to return home, marry the guy she has known for a decade and lead a very predictable , partially submissive life as a German housewife who is working part-time. I told her that if I were her I would stay in the U.S. and leave my boyfriend but that it's ultimately her decision and I will support her no matter what. In the end, she was a good girl and married the guy.

Then, after their wedding she started to talk about having children because " women are by nature made to have children!" (citing my friend, here). I was completely stunned because I've known her since we were 10 years old and she always knew she didn't want to have children because she didn't think of herself  as a motherly type. She always wanted a career, no children and to travel a lot.

Today, she has two kids, a house and a part-time job because her husband earns the money for the family. We can all see that she is partially overwhelmed with the kids but that will pass, I'm sure. And that is how the story ends.

That is the most extreme case of "settling" I have in my friend's circle and it hurts like hell to her like that. I have guy friends who just would not lower their standards looks-wise and still haven't had a girlfriend at all in their mid-thirties. They just won't go for an average looking girl. So it can go the other way round, too.

[teachergirl]

The sickest thing for me is to see all of those good Christians attending that wedding and pretending everything is fine.  I worry for her, her health, her happiness and the worst part is she doesn't matter in this equation.  She probably doesn't even KNOW how to process feelings of fear, doubt, anger, etc. Shame on everyone involved in this except for Tabitha. It makes me so angry I don't even know where to begin,

[ophelia]

Dakota Paine posted a picture of her and her husband (Chad and Tabitha's brother) with the caption "I love weddings" and the hashtag #tabiandtim. I think for them it was just another wedding of good, righteous people. Who cares if the groom is a rapist? He is a fundie, so he is basically a saint.

[VelociRapture]

5 hours ago, teachergirl said:

 Shame on everyone involved in this except for Tabitha.

I think we need to be careful in this. Yes, Tabitha has led a very restrictive life. Yes, she has been very limited in her options because she has douchebag parents. And yes, she may honestly not know any better.

But at the same time, she's an adult. She did make a choice here. She could have said no to the relationship. She could have said no to the lifestyle in general. But she said yes for a multitude of reasons. She still made a choice.

I think we need to be careful in not accidentally infantilizing her further while also expressing our deep compassion for her and an understanding of why she made the choices she did.

(And I honestly mean that last part too. While I do think she bears responsibility here, I fully sympathize with her as well and I understand what @teachergirlis saying here. She was in a shit situation before and she's still in one now, regardless of whether she realizes it or not.)

Edited April 3, 2017 by Coconut Flan
Removed excess quote.

[ophelia]

9 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

I think we need to be careful in this. Yes, Tabitha has led a very restrictive life. Yes, she has been very limited in her options because she has douchebag parents. And yes, she may honestly not know any better.

But at the same time, she's an adult. She did make a choice here. She could have said no to the relationship. She could have said no to the lifestyle in general. But she said yes for a multitude of reasons. She still made a choice.

I think we need to be careful in not infantilizing her further while also expressing our deep compassion for her and an understanding of why she made the choices she did.

(And I honestly mean that last part too. While I do think she bears responsibility here, I fully sympathize with her as well. She was in a shit situation before and she's still in one now, regardless of whether she realizes it or not.)

You are right. It is really a narrow path not infantilizing her further and on the other side to keep in mind that she was raised as a female in a very mysogynist cult that emphasizes on keeping women childlike, sweet and without own opinions. Yes, she is an adult, she is 31 years old, but she is an adult with very very limited choices and her only knowledge about "the real world" is based on her upbringing to despise everything too worldly and that the rest of society is evil and wants to persecute good Christian people like her and her family.

[Tangy Bee]

11 hours ago, jcanglin991 said:

I'm trying to figure out how to say this, so bear with me. It can be okay to lower your standards if they are society's  standards, I.e., about superficial things such as money or looks. A guy with a regular job that doesn't look like a movie star can be a great husband and father. I picked one over a couple that had more of what society tells us is important and have never regretted it. However, never settle in terms of what you feel is important morally, never settle for someone who has a  record of being violent or emotionally abusive. Obviously, rapists are out. It's possible to be terribly lonely even with a partner, so don't make a life changing decision out of the desire to avoid being alone. We all deserve to be with someone who thinks we are the greatest thing ever, and our children deserve parents who love and respect each other.

Hand claps. Wish I could give you a hug right now.

[BobTheWalrus]

On 19/03/2017 at 4:25 PM, ScorpiousMalfoy said:

Is it considered rude if you give the marrying couple money as a wedding gift in the US? Where I live almost everyone gives cash (it's considered polite to give at least as much as the couple paid for your restaurant dish, so in Poland about $50), especially now that people live with each other before marriage and simply have this stuff. I never heard about anyone doing a registry here. So, let's say I go to a US wedding with $100 in an envelope, would that be frowned upon?

When we were getting married we didn't even have a registry because my parents told me it was "grabby" and tacky to ask for particular gifts, and that people should just be able to give us what they wanted, be it money or gifts.

[SilverBeach]

On 4/2/2017 at 10:56 AM, VelociRapture said:

They publicly supported him via Instagram. That's all I need to know about their "values":

So yeah. This marriage being a real thing is in no way surprising to me at all.

(And anyone else find it hysterical that they think/thought Trump would uphold laws or the constitution? Cause I do. Mostly because if I don't laugh I just end up dying a bit more inside.)

And this is why no matter how pretty the hair or cute the babies, these people are repugnant and dangerous. Not to mention ignorant to equate a vote for demon Trump with putting God first. How does that work exactly, voting for somebody who cares nothing about anybody but himself and his rich friends, and considering that godly? Grrrr, arrrgh, all of that.

[SilverBeach]

I really dislike the infantilizing of fundie adults who are way into adulthood. They don't get a lifetime pass on promulgating hateful political views and horrible cult practices because of their upbringing. None of us get such a pass. At some point how we live is on us, not our parents. It's about strength of character, and so many of the folks we talk about have none. They stay in their comfort bubble supporting hate while thinking the rest of us are pitiful heathens. At least on FJ adults can be held accountable for their nonsense. Ugh. Sorry for back to back posts, I thought they would merge.

Edited April 4, 2017 by SilverBeach

[BemusedByFundamentalism]

I finally had the opportunity to catch up on this thread. Last Saturday I woke up thinking: "Today is April 1st, will Tabitha marry that rapist today?" I don't know, sometimes the stuff I read on FJ keeps spinning in my head. Having read everything now, I know the wedding is a fact and I can just hope, like the rest of you, that Tabitha will have a safe and happy marriage/life.

[Kelsey]

Interesting that pictures have not been shown of at least Tabitha. Maybe it was filmed. Did Erin post a pic of her family? She could have been choosen as a bridesmaid.

[JermajestyDuggar]

22 minutes ago, Kelsey said:

Interesting that pictures have not been shown of at least Tabitha. Maybe it was filmed. Did Erin post a pic of her family? She could have been choosen as a bridesmaid.

I doubt the wedding will be televised. Maybe it will be mentioned in passing on the Show but they know better than to put a rapist on tv marrying Chad's sister. 

They did exactly what I predicted they would do. Pictures of them dressed up and fellowshipping without much mention of the couple getting married. They saw what happened when the Duggars posted a congrats on the engagement. No way would they put it on tv. I wouldn't be surprised if Erin was a bridesmaid. And Chad a groomsman. There have only been pictures of Carson posted in his formal wear but none of Erin and Chad. 

Edited April 4, 2017 by JermajestyDuggar

[Howl]

I can't tell if Tabitha is really in love, or in love with the idea of being in love, or in love with the idea of being in love with a Godly man.  Maybe the latter is erotic in her circles?  

Guess we can start the count down to the pregnancy announcement. 

[pook]

5 minutes ago, Howl said:

I can't tell if Tabitha is really in love, or in love with the idea of being in love, or in love with the idea of being in love with a Godly man.  Maybe the latter is erotic in her circles?  

Guess we can start the count down to the pregnancy announcement. 

Sure except you can't make a baby by "falling" into your "partner's" anus.

I will see myself to the prayer closet now.

[Purrl]

I understand that they feel truly repentant people should be forgiven and treated as forgiven, but I worry that with the examples of Josh/Anna and Tim/Tabitha the younger boys are going to get the idea that they can treat their wives in really awful ways and then repent and expect all will be forgiven. 

[Gobsmacked]

The younger boys are certainly being sent mixed messages about how to treat their future brides.

Joshly and John shrader are terrible examples of godly men.

David Rodrigues is a bad example due to his total laziness.

John made the effort to get to Zambia although it's all been going downhill since he landed at the airport.

Jim-Bob is totally beyond words followed closely by Mr Keller.

Worst of all so far ( that I know about ) is DPiat.

[ophelia]

11 hours ago, pook said:

Sure except you can't make a baby by "falling" into your "partner's" anus.

I will see myself to the prayer closet now.

Do you want to kill me?? I laughed so hard I was terrified that there might be some cereal coming out of my noise (reading here while having breakfast)

Have a nice time in the prayer closet!

 

Back on topic: I hope Tabitha is fine and that her husband will treat her well. This is such a fucked up situation.

[SamuraiKatz]

The younger boys are certainly being sent mixed messages about how to treat their future brides.
Joshly and John shrader are terrible examples of godly men.
David Rodrigues is a bad example due to his total laziness.
John made the effort to get to Zambia although it's all been going downhill since he landed at the airport.
Jim-Bob is totally beyond words followed closely by Mr Keller.
Worst of all so far ( that I know about ) is DPiat.

Can we add Dr. Paine and Chad to the list?

Tabitha (who is the oldest daughter?) spends her twenties helping raise the younger siblings ( much as Jana is doing.) The younger sibs move into their teen years and sister mom is no longer needed. All the marriage guys in her age bracket are married or out of the cult. None of the menfolk want to financially responsible for the maiden aunt. Solution: marry her off to an ex convict who is a sexual predator. The dude is not very bright and his prospects for making enough money to decently support a wife and many "blessings" is pretty much nil. But hey she is someone else's problem now. And that is all that matters.

Sarah Maxwell got to raise a golden retriever puppy. She is so very blessed. Steve even though his faults are many is to he commended for not arranging a marriage to a rapist for his oldest daughter.

[Smash!]

A woman has to be joyfully available to her husband. Does she have to go with everything he likes or gives the bible some do's and don'ts re sex positions in those circles?

[kassie]

We don't know if Chad has or hasn't counselled against this union. I'm not keen on painting him as the perpetrator of this marriage. 

I do know, however, that as a sister I could never ever get my brothers to do things. If I could, my older brother wouldn't have married a witch and had three children with her (although I love my nieces!) or my younger brother wouldn't have been a teen parent who got arrested for contributing to the delinquency of a minor (sigh). And, in their view, I would never have moved abroad (they didn't want me to for sure).

In the end, we're all responsible for our own actions. 

[Tangy Bee]

13 hours ago, SamuraiKatz said:

Sarah Maxwell got to raise a golden retriever puppy. She is so very blessed. Steve even though his faults are many is to he commended for not arranging a marriage to a rapist for his oldest daughter.

Yes, I'm willing to bet money that Steve would be forgiving....but he would NEVER allow his daughters to marry a dude that has an abusive/rapist past. Especially if he knows about it.                       

Edited April 5, 2017 by Coconut Flan
Removed excess quote.

[SamuraiKatz]

We don't know if Chad has or hasn't counselled against this union. I'm not keen on painting him as the perpetrator of this marriage. 

I do know, however, that as a sister I could never ever get my brothers to do things. If I could, my older brother wouldn't have married a witch and had three children with her (although I love my nieces!) or my younger brother wouldn't have been a teen parent who got arrested for contributing to the delinquency of a minor (sigh). And, in their view, I would never have moved abroad (they didn't want me to for sure).

In the end, we're all responsible for our own actions. 

Chad and Erin introduced them. So I think he has some culpability.

Once the whole truth can out via In Touch magazine, the menfolk had the opportunity counsel her to agree to cancel the wedding.