Election Results 2016, Part 2

[RoseWilder]

I saw this on social media tonight. This sign was up in the town near where I live: 

It's nice to see these little signs of hope in this horrible darkness. 

[Mecca]

One of the very first things Trump said once he got off that escalator was racist. Mexicans are rapists. Mexicans are criminals. Mexico does not send their best. Let's keep the brown people out. Let's round up the brown people up and get them out. Then he moved on to Muslims saying the Muslims living in the U.S. should be rounded up and identified. They are terrorist. He said there should be a system put in place to keep them from immigrating here. Then he went after the black community saying they live in hell and he wants to bring law and order and stop and frisk back in their neighborhoods. In other words, racial profile black people and use unconstitutional means to do so. He lashed out against women and backs GOP platforms that target gays, lesbians, and transgender people. We knew more about his racist and bigoted views and what he plans on doing to certain segments of the population more than we ever knew about his fiscal polices.

Trump is a bigot, racist, misogynistic, homophobe, and xenophobe that made no bones about it. He claims to tell it like it is and that is the one thing his followers claim to love about him. People knew Trump's views on minorities and still voted for him. They made every excuse up in book to soften his actions and words and still do. 

Just like I have been told since I was a child, you are known by the crowd you keep. Don't want to look like a racist, then don't back and vote for one. Don't try to downplay what he stands for to make yourself feel better. He told everyone who he was. When do we start to believe him? 

We don't give fundies here a break for pulling the same shit Trump and his followers have done. Why I should give a break to Trump and feel sympathy to his followers is beyond me. It won't happen. 

[JMarie]

Don't forget that Trump goes before the Mexican-American judge in seventeen days.

[hoipolloi]

27 minutes ago, Mecca said:

Trump is a bigot, racist, misogynistic, homophobe, and xenophobe that made no bones about it. He claims to tell it like it is and that is the one thing his followers claim to love about him. People knew Trump's views on minorities and still voted for him.

This is why I say that those who voted for him voted for those values.

NONE of those things was top secret or hidden from the public during the campaign. His voters knew full well what he'd said and done. There was no way for them not to know. 

Values matter. I did not get involved with or really follow the Sanders/Clinton primary race basically because I knew I'd be voting for the Democrat, no matter who it was. Why? I share many (not all) of the values of the Democratic Party and none (or maybe almost none) of the values of the Republican Party. I knew the nominee would at least vow to uphold the Democratic Party's values. I was pleased that Sanders pushed Clinton to the left which was reflected in both her public statements & the party platform but would have voted for him had he been the nominee. As I've said elsewhere here, I doubt that he would have prevailed over Trump and it's wishful thinking on the part of many, including Michael Moore, to say Sanders would have won. 

If you haven't seen it, the 45-minute panel discussion on today's Morning Joe that I linked to just above is worth watching, despite Joe & Mika trying to drown out their guests (including Moore) at every opportunity. Also, there is a rather blatant bit of whitesplaining when Scarborough cuts off and talks over Eddie Glaude, head of African-American Studies at Princeton. Moore doesn't come off well either at this point since he also tries to cut off any discussion of racism or why the perspectives of whites & blacks might actually be different and for good reason.

[SassyPants]

27 minutes ago, JMarie said:

Don't forget that Trump goes before the Mexican-American judge in seventeen days.

Didn't he quietly settle that? At least that's what I heard today.

[Mecca]

3 hours ago, Criscat said:

 At some point, you have to say, ok, it is what it is, and make the best of it.

But why should communities that have been targeted such as, latinos, blacks, asians, gays, lesbians, transgenders, Muslims and women have to make the best of discrimination? 

3 hours ago, Criscat said:

For crying out loud, he hasn't had a chance to DO anything good or bad at this point.

Trump had 18 bloody months to do plenty of good, but he willfully chose to do bad. A lot of bad. 

[JMarie]

2 hours ago, SassyPants said:

Didn't he quietly settle that? At least that's what I heard today.

Now I'm not sure.  I don't know if he'll be able to get his way this time.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-seeks-to-delay-trial-until-after-inauguration/ar-AAk9Ntl?OCID=ansmsnnews11

[hoipolloi]

2 hours ago, SassyPants said:

Didn't he quietly settle that? At least that's what I heard today.

His lawyers agreed to settlement talks but previous efforts haven't gone well at all. Judge Curiel is to announce next week whether he'll agree to postponing the trial until next year, after the inauguration.

It'll be interesting to see what happens for a number of reasons, one of them being that Trump HATES to settle lawsuits.

[Anny Nym]

I just read in the news, people have been shot down on the open street  in Portland while a anti-Trump-demonstration and about people posting videos on twitter of riots and lootings.

That´s crazy! And adds a whole new layer of sad to that whole case!

[RoseWilder]

A great deal of infighting is going on within his transition team: 

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/donald-trump-team-rivals-231277

Well good. Maybe they'll all be so busy fighting with each other that they won't have as much time to ruin the country. 

And the Republicans are slamming into the reality of how hard it is to actual accomplish all the despicable things they want to accomplish:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-obamacare-repeal_us_582638e8e4b0c4b63b0cafff

Quote

A report from health care journalist Caitlin Owens, posted Thursday on LinkedIn, said that on Capitol Hill, aides were just coming to grips with the fact that repeal could be difficult ― and that, as a result, Republicans might decide to leave significant parts of the law in place.

 

[RoseWilder]

So let's review. It's been 4 days since the election, and in those 4 days Trump has: 

1. Angered the Republicans by not locking up Clinton and Obama (no idea how his supporters thought he would actually accomplish that before even officially being president, but somehow they did)

2. publicly praised Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton and President Obama

3. proposed a 1 trillion dollar infrastructure plan that the Republicans are mad about

4. said he might not repeal Obamacare completely

Now, who the hell knows whether he will follow through on any of that stuff or not. I don't even think Trump knows what he's going to do next at this point. 

But, still, this must be making his supporters a little nervous either way. I wonder how long it will take them to realize that Trump will do what pleases Trump no matter what, and that he doesn't give a crap about what his supporters want or think or feel. 

[AliC]

I have one word for Trump supporters that honestly believed he would uphold all or even most of his promises...

Suckers!!!

 

[RoseWilder]

Sigh. I lose faith in humanity a little more every day. Benjamin Corey wrote a beautiful and heartbreaking blog entry about how his daughter has been bullied at school since Trump was elected and the comments section has person after person insisting that racism doesn't exist, that the problem is that the bullied child's Dad is creating the fears in her, that racism is a liberal media lie, that the bullied child needs to just be taught to have a spine and stand up for herself. I weep for humanity. It's absolutely repulsive to hear people blame a bullied child and her Dad for the bullying. 

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/formerlyfundie/what-i-wish-my-white-friends-family-understood-about-our-election-grief/

[kpmom]

18 hours ago, nausicaa said:

 

Then again, I also said that Trump's baggage would kill him in a general election and the Republican party would never let him be the nominee. Clearly, I was wrong. I am still surprised that her baggage apparently turned off more people than his, and I do think sexism plays a very large role in that. 

I believe she has won (or is still winning) the popular vote (granted, by a very slim margin), so that's not exactly true.

Regarding her baggage, when you have a powerful agency like the FBI helping to pack those bags, well, good for her for getting as many votes as she did.  Seriously

[RoseWilder]

My couple of posts about the Trump transition team were a separate topic from election results, so I'm not sure why they got merged into this thread. They were a different topic that should have had a different thread. 

[samurai_sarah]

3 minutes ago, RoseWilder said:

My couple of posts about the Trump transition team were a separate topic from election results, so I'm not sure why they got merged into this thread. They were a different topic that should have had a different thread. 

I merged your thread, because it seemed to fall under the categories of "What now" or "Election Results". Both threads appeared equally suited to discuss for the issues in the thread you started.

[Childless]

2 hours ago, RoseWilder said:

So let's review. It's been 4 days since the election, and in those 4 days Trump has: 

1. Angered the Republicans by not locking up Clinton and Obama (no idea how his supporters thought he would actually accomplish that before even officially being president, but somehow they did)

2. publicly praised Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton and President Obama

3. proposed a 1 trillion dollar infrastructure plan that the Republicans are mad about

4. said he might not repeal Obamacare completely

Now, who the hell knows whether he will follow through on any of that stuff or not. I don't even think Trump knows what he's going to do next at this point. 

But, still, this must be making his supporters a little nervous either way. I wonder how long it will take them to realize that Trump will do what pleases Trump no matter what, and that he doesn't give a crap about what his supporters want or think or feel. 

1.  What exactly was he supposed to imprison Obama for?  Having the audacity to be president while being black?  For having liberal views?  For breathing?  I'm not following their line of thinking.  Of course, I have a brain that I actually use.  That could be why.

2.  I'm of the opinion that Trump never really wanted to be president.  I don't think he thought he'd ever get out of the primary.  It was a lark for him.  He did it to increase his brand and stir things up because that's what he does.  Once he started winning, he got caught up in the adulation and the high of victory.  Now it's hitting him like a ton of bricks.  He's actually going to have to do this job and follow up on his promises and he's panicking.  I think the public praise was to ensure they'd help him when he inevitably needs it.  He's running scared at this point.

3.  Again he's being forced to follow up on promises.  Why Republicans thought they could endorse him, get him elected on the backs of angry citizens, and then promptly ignore those citizens is beyond me.  He ran on an anti-establishment platform.  What did they think he was going to do?

4.  Well, duh.  You can't set up a massive program like the ACA that a majority of citizens and all the insurance companies depend on and then expect to just yank the carpet out from underneath it.  You'll collapse the healthcare industry as well as the economy.  Not to mention, they have no idea how to replace it yet.

[kpmom]

What a shame even some FJers bought the crooked, weighed down with baggage, a woman for president but not that woman, anti Hillary narrative.

We've been complaining here about racists, misogynists, and xenophobes who voted for Trump, and yet I'm reading some pretty depressing stuff from some fellow FJers.

Sure, ya didn't vote for Trump, but voting 3rd party, or announcing that you held your nose and voted for Hillary (i.e., against Trump) but "I don't like her",  didn't help either. 

Please show me what candidate could have overcome the shit she had thrown at her?  Please show me what candidate ever had to deal with the shit she had thrown at her?  Ever had to deal with a quarter of the shit she had thrown at her?

Here's an article from Neil Buchanan that sums up how I'm feeling now;

Quote

To return to my image of the bully and his victim in high school, it was bad enough that Clinton had to deal with Trump's provocations. He was the one tying her shoelaces together and pushing her, but the supposedly liberal press was throwing things at her and telling her to catch them or dodge them as she tried not to fall down the stairs.

She still managed to come out of it all with her dignity intact, never falling even as the last banana peels were thrown in her path.

Yet now some people want to blame her for being flawed. She lost a winnable election, they say, but she did so because she could not overcome voter suppression or a relentlessly harsh media narrative. She—and the country—deserved better. Now, we will all pay the price.

http://www.newsweek.com/neil-buchanan-cruel-crooked-caricature-doomed-clinton-520125?hl=1&noRedirect=1

.

 

 

[QuiverDance]

2 minutes ago, kpmom said:

What a shame even some FJers bought the crooked, weighed down with baggage, a woman for president but not that woman, anti Hillary narrative.

We've been complaining here about racists, misogynists, and xenophobes who voted for Trump, and yet I'm reading some pretty depressing stuff from some fellow FJers.

Sure, ya didn't vote for Trump, but voting 3rd party, or announcing that you held your nose and voted for Hillary (i.e., against Trump) but "I don't like her",  didn't help either. 

Please show me what candidate could have overcome the shit she had thrown at her?  Please show me what candidate ever had to deal with the shit she had thrown at her?  Ever had to deal with a quarter of the shit she had thrown at her?

Here's an article from Neil Buchanan that sums up how I'm feeling now;

http://www.newsweek.com/neil-buchanan-cruel-crooked-caricature-doomed-clinton-520125?hl=1&noRedirect=1

.

 

 

I'll be honest for a minute.  Real honest.  I have been a fan of Hillary Clinton since 1991 and I first heard of her as WJC came onto the national stage.  I think she has been victimized by partisan attacks and bloodthirsty press who love drama for ratings.  I do.  I think she is a shrewd, ambitious, and yes, calculating woman.  I don't think those qualities make her a bad woman, but I think she has been severely punished for having those qualities.  Nutshell:  I admire her tremendously and mourn that she lost. 

However.  I have always known she was not electable because PEOPLE HATE HER.  That's not really her fault.  But people hate her.  I knew that in my heart, but I got swept up and I was 100% WITH HER and still am.  But in my heart, I knew it, and I was afraid.  

I was really, really sad when Joe Biden announced he was not going to run.  Really sad.  Because Joe Biden doesn't have scandal in his past, and he is not a socialist, and ... he is male... and he might have had a chance.

We're fucked now.  

[RainbowSky]

Biden has been with Obama for a while. I honestly don't think he would've gotten far either. 

[QuiverDance]

I think Joe has a legitimate populist bent that could have helped.  You may be right, and we will just never know.  But there would not have been EMAILS!!!!! or  BENGHAZZZZIIIII!!!!  or "LOCK HER UP!"  And people don't hate him.  

Now we are getting a cabinet full of old white guys and a few token submissive women.  

I repeat:  FUUUUUUUUCKED.  

I mean, when I am on board with Michael Moore.... my worldview has definitely been rocked. 

[Cartmann99]

Like most of you, I'm still processing the election results and what this means for our country. I've been doing a lot of reading and keeping an eye on what is being said  and written on the Internet about this election. @RoseWilder is much more eloquent than I am, and I am very glad that she's here to express some feelings that I share. Thank you, @RoseWilder.

I see people trying to normalize what has happened so things can return to "normal". I understand that it's a denial mechanism, so I am trying to remind myself that some people go into denial when things are too scary for them to contemplate.  That said, I know that some Americans would like for the United States to become a place where everyone who is not a white heterosexual Christian conservative either shuts up and stays in their place, or faces dire consequences. Its always wise to remember that some of our fellow citizens definitely have an authoritarian streak to them.

There's others who would happily go along with such plans, if it meant a higher return on their investments, or for other reasons like the hope of overturning Roe v. Wade. I keep remembering a still frame from an episode of The Simpsons  that is posted on the Internet from time to time. In the frame we see a helicopter with a sign on the side that says:

Fox News: Not Racist, but #1 With Racists.

Dog, fleas, company you keep, etc...

Anyway, since I am a 'hope for the best while planning for the worst' kinda gal, I'm sharing a clip from Rachel Maddow's program that aired last night.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trumps-words-raise-red-flags-for-autocracy/vp-AAkcrkS

This clip is just under eight minutes long. If you can't or don't want to watch the clip, here's a link to the article the clip is about.

http://www2.nybooks.com/daily/s3/nov/10/trump-election-autocracy-rules-for-survival.html

This is sobering stuff and like most of you, I want this all to turn into something like we would have had if Romney had won in 2012. I want that very much right now. That said, if we are going somewhere much darker, I want all of us to have time to prepare. If I'm wrong, then I've just spent time learning more about what life is like in some countries in our world. Gaining knowledge is always a worthwhile pursuit, no matter how things turn out.

[RoseWilder]

16 minutes ago, Cartmann99 said:

Like most of you, I'm still processing the election results and what this means for our country. I've been doing a lot of reading and keeping an eye on what is being said  and written on the Internet about this election. @RoseWilder is much more eloquent than I am, and I am very glad that she's here to express some feelings that I share. Thank you, @RoseWilder.

Thank you so much. That means a lot. I'm so glad I have this place to come to and talk about all of this. I've read a lot of good thoughts other places, but the comments section seems to always be a cesspool of Trump supporters lecturing people who have been bullied to "get over it." It's making my heart hurt to know there are so many mean-spirited, hateful people in the world. I'm so glad that this safe place exists for us to talk and process our feelings and formulate plans. 

[mausi]

17 hours ago, Criscat said:

 At some point, you have to say, ok, it is what it is, and make the best of it. For crying out loud, he hasn't had a chance to DO anything good or bad at this point. Am I happy he won? No. I didn't want Hillary either. all this protesting and rioting is ridiculous. I have a hard time reconciling blocking freeways and tearing up your city--vandalizing cars and Windows, and causing over a million dollars in damages because you don't like the result of an election. Living in said city, and stuck in that freeway... I thought grown ups were better than that.apparently not. 

I'm sorry men and women exercising their legal right to assembly and protest over a situation in which an underlying systemic oppression has now been legitimated through all branches of the US government inconvenienced your commute.

 

[RoseWilder]

This is horrifying: 

http://www.rageagainsttheminivan.com/2016/11/the-alt-right-movement-harassed-my.html

Quote

If you care about me and my family, I hope you will read this. 

As many of you know, this year my family was targeted and harassed by a white-supremacy group known as the "alt-right" for having adopted black children. Their attack was brutal and relentless. They inundated all of my social media sites with racist memes, posting altered racist photos of my young children and suggesting violence towards me and sexual behavior in regards to my kids. The harassment moved to 4Chan where my address was published along with a photo of the outside of my house. It was so bad that it was covered on several news outlets. It was one of the scariest experiences I've ever been through.

If you aren't familiar with the "alt-right", this is basically what they do. They claim to not be racist, but do not be fooled. It's rhetoric. They believe that the races should not mix, and that America is an inherently white nation, and their goal is to assure that is true. They are nasty people with little to no empathy for others. They use abuse tactics and harass people every day. And they LOVE Donald Trump and truly believe that he has their interests in mind. I can see why they believe that.

I've had many, many people react negatively to me suggesting that Trump ran on a racist platform. But I need you to open your eyes to something. Donald Trump is currently considering Stephen Bannon for his chief of staff. This is fact. Stephen Bannon is one of the leaders of the alt-right movement. This is fact. DONALD TRUMP IS CONSIDERING THE LEADER OF THE RACIST MOVEMENT THAT HARASSED MY FAMILY TO BE CHIEF OF STAFF OF THIS COUNTRY.

This should terrify you. Even if you voted for Donald, this should terrify you. And you need to say something. We ALL need to say something, but those of you who supported Trump need to be the most vocal. You need to check your party. You need to check your candidate. It's not time to be sheepish or embarrassed. You don't want people thinking you knowingly voted for a racist? Then you need to make sure he doesn't appoint racists to his staff.

Speak up. Everyone. Speak up.

I'm not in the practice of asking people to share my posts, but I hope you will share this one. I'm scared. We should all be scared.

This is our country and we all need to protect it right now.
 

I can't believe there are people who are turning a blind eye to the hate crimes that are occurring because of Trump. This is terrifying.