Pick A Reason Kelly Bates Is A LOUSY Mother

[BeccaGrim]

On 8/20/2016 at 11:16 PM, season of life said:

The whole Whitney parenting feud is confusing. It wasn't until someone on FJ corrected me that I genuinely believed her bio parents died in a car crash. But it turns out her adoptive parents lost a daughter in a crash. I honestly have no clue what happened behind closed doors or why Whit decided to freeze out her adoptive parents. No doubt Kelly had a hand in their rift, but unless Whitney gives the full story, I don't think we will ever know the truth about her adoption or the lack of presence of the Owens family in her married life.

This happened to me too. I got my hat handed to me in a big way because I thought the same thing. Glad I wasn't the only one confused. 

She let Josh Duggar come spend time at her house after knowing (as evidently everyone in the community did) what he did to his sisters! 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

On 8/21/2016 at 6:06 AM, CatNap said:

Forcing Whitney to wear skirts only. I'm sure Kelly is behind this. And letting some of her kids drive after she admitted on TV that they are bad drivers and that she's afraid to ride with them.

I don't know if I agree with the term forcing.  I have no doubt that there is significant pressure on her to conform and I can't even imagine how hard it can be to stand up to that when you're a young adult and the inlaws help run a cult.

But the fact is at some point our choices are our own and as awful as our parents/inlaws can be we're responsible if we choose to continue the practices.  And they are on their own and raising their own children so if they are cowed into conforming they are certainly not being forced.  It's not like she'd be kicked out of the house and left to starve if she wore pants.

That is if it's happening and granted I don't watch their show...but it's totally possible she's choosing to follow the skirts only thing.  Also totally possible she does it when they are around because it's easier than arguing and she wouldn't be the first person to humor her inlaws by going along with their weird customs in their presence.  

[Pretzel]

@HerNameIsBuffy Several people who are or were close with Whitney, among them her adoptive mother, and the Bateses themselves have said that there's no bad word to say about Whitney, bad language was no part of her vocabulary and that she really says nothing at all if she doesn't have anything nice to say. The fact that all the Bates women and girls wear skirts and considered that she so desperately wanted to find her place in the 'big happy family' shebang, I don't think Kelly ever had to pressure her into anything. It seems like she'd assimilate automatically. I don't think Kelly's forces were necessarily at work to lay it on Whitney's heart to wear skirts. Kelly's daughter started to wear pants shortly after Whitney became convinced of skirts. I wouldn't put it past Kelly to send non-verbal messages about the godliness of skirts, but I don't think she has to.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Kelly said her grown daughters could wear whatever they wanted at their homes but that when they came to visit she has them follow her rules regarding covering up. If Whitney is over there all the time, I imagine she faces the same expectations. Like someone said, I think Whitney was thrilled to find a large family that she could call her own and willingly changed.

[JermajestyDuggar]

It's not just the bates family that has daughters going to college more than sons. I think that's pretty typical in the more religious and conservative groups. What else are these girls going to do while they wait around for Prince Charming? Plus they will have more access to like minded boys if they go to a college that is approved by their religion. If the Duggar girls had lived close to a fundie college like the Bates girls, then JB would've approved them attending in pairs. 

[Palimpsest]

33 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

It's not just the bates family that has daughters going to college more than sons. I think that's pretty typical in the more religious and conservative groups. What else are these girls going to do while they wait around for Prince Charming? Plus they will have more access to like minded boys if they go to a college that is approved by their religion. If the Duggar girls had lived close to a fundie college like the Bates girls, then JB would've approved them attending in pairs. 

It is typical across the board and doesn't necessarily have much to do with Prince Charming.  ::Digs up interesting article on the college gender gap:: 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/storyline/wp/2014/12/11/women-are-dominating-men-at-college-blame-sexism/

It is also important to note that the Bateses and Duggars are not representative of all IBLP families - or all Fundies.  Some have no objections to higher education at Faith-based Bible Colleges at all.  Some even go to real accredited colleges.

Although Gothard heavily emphasized homeschooling, he himself had an approved list of careers for women - including midwife and beautician, naturally, but not astronaut or lawyer.  He also had to get the students for the Oak Brook School of Law from somewhere.  Some of them pass the CA Bar.

At one point the Duggars claimed all the adult children were doing some college courses through College Plus, although that might have disappeared if their endorsement was dropped after the scandal.  The important thing was to have them study from home - but was that sheltering or the demands of the TV show?  Jill completed her midwifery course (yes, I know, but she finished it.)

Some of the boys may fit the profile in the article I linked - not particularly academically inclined and can earn a perfectly good living without a college degree.  JD seems to be doing fine.  So does Zach Bates.

Gil and Kelly both went to college but it was unaccredited when they were there.  Jim Bob seems to scoff at college - but that may be because he never went to college himself and neither did Michelle.

[jacduggar]

On August 20, 2016 at 3:58 PM, Pretzel said:

Some FJ genius, whose name escaped me, once pointed out that Kelly Bates was a better mother than Michelle Duggar just the way it's better to be constipated in a job interview than to have a bout of diarrhea.

Never heard a better comparison. Both ways are shit, just that one is more solid than the other.

This. Michelle, IMO, is a worse mother absolutely because she covered up the molestation of her very young daughters and forced them to go on living with him and living in a culture that protects people like him and blames the victim. 

 

That does not mean that Kelly is even a half way decent person. The bar here is very very low. 

 

I believe that raising their children with the belief that having kids proves your worth to God is one of the most abhorrent things she has done. I don't know if it didn't cross her mind that her children may have fertility issues or what, but I can't imagine the mind fuck Erin had throughout her fertility struggle. Fertility problems are bad enough, but she was raised in a way that her worth is entirely wrapped up in her ability to have babies. That's a whole different level. 

[Arix]

3 hours ago, jacduggar said:

This. Michelle, IMO, is a worse mother absolutely because she covered up the molestation of her very young daughters and forced them to go on living with him and living in a culture that protects people like him and blames the victim. 

 

That does not mean that Kelly is even a half way decent person. The bar here is very very low. 

 

I believe that raising their children with the belief that having kids proves your worth to God is one of the most abhorrent things she has done. I don't know if it didn't cross her mind that her children may have fertility issues or what, but I can't imagine the mind fuck Erin had throughout her fertility struggle. Fertility problems are bad enough, but she was raised in a way that her worth is entirely wrapped up in her ability to have babies. That's a whole different level. 

Right? And she presumably knew her sister's issues were genetic.

[jqlgoblue]

48 minutes ago, Arix said:

Right? And she presumably knew her sister's issues were genetic

But if you pray hard enough maybe they're not? ...

 

[formergothardite]

9 hours ago, jacduggar said:

This. Michelle, IMO, is a worse mother absolutely because she covered up the molestation of her very young daughters and forced them to go on living with him and living in a culture that protects people like him and blames the victim. 

But Kelly sent her young teen daughters out of the country to travel with a man she knew typically sexually assaulted the naive teen girls who traveled with him. And I have no doubt Kelly would have reacted the exact same way Michelle did, so she isn't getting any extra mother points from me. I don't think there is really a better or worse mother. They are both equally bad in their own ways. 

[JordynDarby5]

4 hours ago, formergothardite said:

But Kelly sent her young teen daughters out of the country to travel with a man she knew typically sexually assaulted the naive teen girls who traveled with him. And I have no doubt Kelly would have reacted the exact same way Michelle did, so she isn't getting any extra mother points from me. I don't think there is really a better or worse mother. They are both equally bad in their own ways. 

I agree. They both are horrible. 

[nolongerIFBx]

On ‎8‎/‎22‎/‎2016 at 1:14 PM, NotALoserLikeYou said:

Kelly said her grown daughters could wear whatever they wanted at their homes but that when they came to visit she has them follow her rules regarding covering up. If Whitney is over there all the time, I imagine she faces the same expectations. Like someone said, I think Whitney was thrilled to find a large family that she could call her own and willingly changed.

I remember the statement that you are referring to, but I did not take away the same meaning that many did. I believe that Kelly meant while her children were living in their house not also to include when married children came back to visit. And I really thought that someone had said that Alyssa was not in Bates-approved dress when she last visited the Bates home, which would also disprove the aforementioned interpretation of Kelly's statement on their dress preferences.

[imokit]

The Bates modesty standards are in a constant state of flux at the moment.  Since Alyssa got married and started wearing jeans in Florida, the girls at home have been sneaking up hemlines, lowering tops and shortening sleeves.  They're still officially skirts only, but who knows what the actual rules are now?  I suspect even they don't know.

We've seen knees, shoulders, a bra strap from Carlin's birthday pics a year ago...And this is just on camera, who knows what else is going on modesty wise off it (I suspect even more lax standards than we see).

[faraway]

2 hours ago, imokit said:

The Bates modesty standards are in a constant state of flux at the moment.  Since Alyssa got married and started wearing jeans in Florida, the girls at home have been sneaking up hemlines, lowering tops and shortening sleeves.  They're still officially skirts only, but who knows what the actual rules are now?  I suspect even they don't know.

We've seen knees, shoulders, a bra strap from Carlin's birthday pics a year ago...And this is just on camera, who knows what else is going on modesty wise off it (I suspect even more lax standards than we see).

100% agree. I don't believe them anything. Honestly, they're just a basic family who thought they had found THE fundie lifestyle and then suddenly tasted freedom and money. And all goes out the window.

[Melissa1977]

9 minutes ago, faraway said:

100% agree. I don't believe them anything. Honestly, they're just a basic family who thought they had found THE fundie lifestyle and then suddenly tasted freedom and money. And all goes out the window.

And they realised frumpers were ridiculous and even Duggars were changing their style. Not to forget that modern clothes make girls prettier, so better suitors for them. Kelly loves marrying well her daugthers, so I see her convincing Gil that modern clothes are godly enough. 

I think Michael was the only real frumpy lover and I'm not sure if she loves modern style. In fact, she's dressing as a modest 1990 girl, so not really modern. I think she is like Anna Marie Maxwell and could be happy wearing frumpers all day.

[violynn]

On 8/15/2016 at 10:22 PM, bal maiden said:

Neon frumpers. At least make your frumpers a godly shade of blah, God doesn't want a migraine when looking upon his most holy arrows. 

I've nothing to add since you have all covered Kelly's multitude of parenting sins very well, but I need to let @bal maiden know this post made me guffaw.  That rarely happens to me; I chuckle, laugh aloud, belly laugh and on occasion snort, but guffaws are far and few between.  Thank you for making my morning!

[nokidsmom]

I held off on posting in this thread trying to pick a reason why Kelly is a bad mother and there just isn't one.  They are all bad and have been covered here.   Nor is she any better than J'chelle, both are equally bad IMHO, there may be some differences between the two but from where I sit, both are mothers who had more children than they could handle, both delegated parenting responsibilities to their daughters, limited their children's potential in terms of education and life opportunities, exploited them for gain (TV shows, grifting etc). and knowingly put them at risk (Gothard, Joshley).  

IMHO, what one parents "allows" their children versus what the other one "allows" their children is immaterial in the face of the above.

[Palimpsest]

 

5 hours ago, nokidsmom said:

I held off on posting in this thread trying to pick a reason why Kelly is a bad mother and there just isn't one.  They are all bad and have been covered here.   Nor is she any better than J'chelle, both are equally bad IMHO, there may be some differences between the two but from where I sit, both are mothers who had more children than they could handle, both delegated parenting responsibilities to their daughters, limited their children's potential in terms of education and life opportunities, exploited them for gain (TV shows, grifting etc). and knowingly put them at risk (Gothard, Joshley).  

IMHO, what one parents "allows" their children versus what the other one "allows" their children is immaterial in the face of the above.

Quite.  Absofuckinglutely!

It also interests me that a thread asking us to pick reasons that Kelly is a lousy mother devolves into "but she is better than Michelle."  No, they both really stink as mothers in much the same ways.  Kelly just somehow manages to look a little less insane on her unReality TV show.

However, if we absolutely must do comparisons - how do Kelly and Michelle score against Jill R, Teri Maxwell, Lori Alexander, Lisa Pennington, Zsusanna Anderson, Beall Phillips, Erica Shupe, and Esther Shrader?

Granted that lot aren't on TV but there is plenty of evidence gathered here on FJ that the Fundie way of life =/= good mothering or good parenting.

There is a whole wide world of Fundie comparisons out there and in some ways the evils of IBLP, Kelly, and Michelle are just the tip of a rotten to the core iceberg of the Christian Patriarchal Movement.  

[Exjw2015deed]

On August 22, 2016 at 2:14 PM, NotALoserLikeYou said:

Kelly said her grown daughters could wear whatever they wanted at their homes but that when they came to visit she has them follow her rules regarding covering up. If Whitney is over there all the time, I imagine she faces the same expectations. Like someone said, I think Whitney was thrilled to find a large family that she could call her own and willingly changed.

I don't think Kelly said that. She said they have to follow their rules when they live in their house and once they get married they're free to what they like, and all she cares is that they're Christ centered and blah blah blah. I see how it can be interpreted that way but Alyssa has worn sleeveless dress at their house more than once. Also she has worn jeans around them too.

And she said Whitney said it was her decision to wear skirts and Zach asked her if she was sure because she may later resent him. Who knows for real though. I'm sure Alyssa and Whitney are just respectful regardless. I know when I go visit some of religious family memebers in the Bible Belt, I certainly don't wear crop tops to make them uncomfortable. I try to respect their standards, but when they come up north, bellies out, boobs pumped, and tattoos out! (Jk) 

[VelociRapture]

1 hour ago, Exjw2015deed said:

I don't think Kelly said that. She said they have to follow their rules when they live in their house and once they get married they're free to what they like, and all she cares is that they're Christ centered and blah blah blah. I see how it can be interpreted that way but Alyssa has worn sleeveless dress at their house more than once. Also she has worn jeans around them too.

And she said Whitney said it was her decision to wear skirts and Zach asked her if she was sure because she may later resent him. Who knows for real though. I'm sure Alyssa and Whitney are just respectful regardless. I know when I go visit some of religious family memebers in the Bible Belt, I certainly don't wear crop tops to make them uncomfortable. I try to respect their standards, but when they come up north, bellies out, boobs pumped, and tattoos out! (Jk) 

So... I just tried to figure out if Kelly and Gil require their married daughters to wear skirts when visiting. Looked all over and couldn't figure it out. Then I realized at least thirty minutes had passed. And that I don't actually care because I'm lazy and the parents are a pair of creeps even if it's not required. 

(I do want to say that I think dress standards for married kids was mentioned one way or another on the show - probably one of the earlier episodes where the Websters visit Tennessee.)

[actuallyjessica]

1 hour ago, VelociRapture said:

So... I just tried to figure out if Kelly and Gil require their married daughters to wear skirts when visiting. Looked all over and couldn't figure it out. Then I realized at least thirty minutes had passed. And that I don't actually care because I'm lazy and the parents are a pair of creeps even if it's not required. 

(I do want to say that I think dress standards for married kids was mentioned one way or another on the show - probably one of the earlier episodes where the Websters visit Tennessee.)

They do. I am yet to see anything but dresses or skirts on them while visiting. Kelly left a reply on a blog comment a few years ago saying that while the married couples are free to choose for themselves outside of the home, when they enter G&K's home they are to abide by their rules.

Sure, Alyssa may have had a pair of jeans under a dress, but she still had a long piece of fabric covering the shape of her upper legs. No different to wearing leggings under a skirt/dress, IMO.

[JordynDarby5]

Getting the praise for being the best mothers.  At being hardworking Moms and accredited for how well their kids have turned out. Taking the praise and credit that really should go to their daughters. 

[Ace3]

On 8/16/2016 at 2:00 PM, Dandruff said:

IIRC, Gil and Kelly could only add/drop/change one letter of the name without paying a fee.  Michael, as an embryo and fetus, was no doubt worth any expense to protect and support.  Once born, she apparently wasn't worth a few extra $$s to give her a name that wouldn't be a potential lifetime burden.

If it helps any, I used to work for Vital Records in my state and if it changed the pronunciation of the name you had to get a court order. So you could change "Bell" to "Belle" or "Charlie" to "Charley" because it is pronounced the same. Once you change "Marie" to "Maria" it changes the pronunciation and requires a court order. Court orders for that are not outrageous, but they are money so they clearly didn't want to throw down money that they didn't have to fix their mistake. Major fail.

[TShirtsLongSkirts]

20 hours ago, Ace3 said:

If it helps any, I used to work for Vital Records in my state and if it changed the pronunciation of the name you had to get a court order. So you could change "Bell" to "Belle" or "Charlie" to "Charley" because it is pronounced the same. Once you change "Marie" to "Maria" it changes the pronunciation and requires a court order. Court orders for that are not outrageous, but they are money so they clearly didn't want to throw down money that they didn't have to fix their mistake. Major fail.

That's really interesting! Is Michal pronounced the same as Michael then? In my head I'd always pronounced it "mi-KAL" and Michael as "MY-kal" but I might be wrong as I've never heard Michal pronounced irl... 

[HarleyQuinn]

It still drives me insane that they didn't think to just do Michala. Apparently they lacked imagination (assuming their state didn't have the wonky pronunciation rule)