Jill, Derick and Israel- Part 17

[twinmama]

2 hours ago, Four is Enough said:

They may have realized that the pregnancy wear and tear on their own bodies is not as much fun as Michelle made it out to be. I believe Michelle's pregnancies were pretty easy compared to what Jill and Jessa dealt with. It's possible that they are in much worse physical condition than Michelle was, I seem to recall seeing her on an elliptical, water skiing, roller skating, and doing a lot of other physical things. Them? Not so much. 

That totally makes sense. But even without being in crap shape, some peoples bodies are built for pumping out babies and some aren't. Even though they are young, their bodies just might be built for a baby every 2-4 years rather than 1.5 years! And IMO no one really wants 10+ children unless it is some kind of numbers thing or obsession. They are young enough to have normal size families if they don't get pregnant every time the new one hits 6 months. They also could be pretty enamored of their first babies and not putting dedicated effort into creating their seconds. My thinking is that Michelle's fertility came back quickly AND she really tried to get pregnant. I'd never recommend FAM or NFP to someone who REALLY did not want another pregnancy, but for someone looking to give a little distance between but an accident is no biggie, it works well enough. Even just knowing your cycle you can get lucky and avoid for months on end.

[habert]

The actually reality of pregnancy might have caused Jill and Jessa to rethink constant pregnancy. I don't think that means they aren't still trumpeting quiverfull ideas or they won't have any more kids, but the cognitive dissonance between what they believe (or think they believe) and what they have now experienced might lead them to "do" things to avoid pregnancy in a sort of round about, subconscious sort of way. 

It's not that hard to not have vaginal intercourse at your most fertile time of the month, especially if your husband is patriachal under informed idiot on female biology. You can still "perform" wifely duties and...avoid vaginal intercourse for five straight days. There's no way J/D and J/B have sex every day. So delaying pregnancy for 12-18 months on average instead of fucking 4 is totally "unintentionally intentionally" possibly and still can pump you out a lot of offspring. You can also try and avoid and still get pregnant quickly, but Jill's just lucked out. 

Im also under the impression that Jill and Derick are good fundie partners that might keep them more or less content married to each other, but not particularly crazy in love anymore. It must feel like a long road ahead of you when you get to year two and realize you have probably fifty more to go with this guy/chick you're just now starting to really get a good picture of, with no allure of New Sanctified Sex. But obviously I don't know them personally. 

[twinmama]

In addition, Jill and Jessa both went through some shit with their first births and if their husbands have a tiny bit of normal sympathy, they might not be incredibly eager to put them through it again so fast! I haven't been the partner watching the other suffer, but my husband was terrified for my life during my preeclampsia nightmare. It all turned out fine, but he is the one that completely adamant we will never do another pregnancy (have more kids he's unsure about, but never getting me preggo again!).

That's one reason I was just sad and surprised JB&M got pregnant with Jubilee. After watching Josie come so early and Michelle be so ill, I hate that they decided to have more. I make no judgments on parents of micropreemies who want a second or third child, but jesus christ you have 19, you do not need another. 

[Ace3]

On 6/28/2016 at 1:53 PM, VelociRapture said:

I think they were supposed to induce a bit early with Carson too. He came before that though. They got incredibly lucky that time. Hopefully they abd the Doctor learned from that experience and came up with a good plan to tackle it this time.

I do respect that in her TH, Erin did say that she was planning on walking in and getting an epidural. While I'm all for people getting the birth they want, it was kind of refreshing knowing that she wasn't going to try and do a home birth after all her other complications and was 100% good with medical intervention. I really, really hope the Duggar girls look closely at the births and complications they had and seriously consider at least a birthing center were they can be monitored by professionals. Again, not knocking natural births in anyway, I'm just glad to see that she and Whitney do not seem to have an aversion to medical intervention (based on the little information we have, of course.)

[Shouldabeenacowboy]

 

On 6/30/2016 at 11:18 AM, season of life said:

Lily and Ellie need to get a life. Isn't the daughter married and doing something dental related? Why do they care so much?

Her husband is the dentist, I think. She is...a "writer" and a "journalist" (ironic quotes intended). 

[Shouldabeenacowboy]

I was trying to edit my post above (something went very wrong!) but I cannot get rid of the eleventy quotes. Help!!!!

[SpoonfulOSugar]

11 minutes ago, Shouldabeenacowboy said:

I was trying to edit my post above (something went very wrong!) but I cannot get rid of the eleventy quotes. Help!!!!

I was able to delete them for you.

Thank you so much for reporting your post.  It's by far the easiest way for us to know there is a problem.

[YourGodIsNotMine]

On 6/28/2016 at 7:17 PM, season of life said:

A friend of hers named Gala actually peddled that shit to her, and she swallowed it like nobody's business. Michelle repaid the favor by repeating that advice to countless other girls and women. 

I don't think Michelle swallows very much, what with 19 kids.

[MiddleAgedLady]

Derick's latest tweet. 

 

[nastyhobbitses]

13 minutes ago, MiddleAgedLady said:

Derick's latest tweet. 

 

TLDR for anyone who doesn't want to listen to The Great Bearded One's "insights" on depression: the best cure for depression is Jesus and you're probably sad because you did something wrong/didn't love Jesus enough.

[BabyBottlePop]

Hey Derick, what if the restraints of your fundamentalist religion are what's making you depressed?

Also, and this is no surprise, but he's full of shit. 'Many people do' struggle with depression. You mean men since women are supposed to keep sweet. Just holding back every emotion but joy has got to do awful things to your psyche. 

[VelociRapture]

39 minutes ago, nastyhobbitses said:

TLDR for anyone who doesn't want to listen to The Great Bearded One's "insights" on depression: the best cure for depression is Jesus and you're probably sad because you did something wrong/didn't love Jesus enough.

Three words:

Fuck this noise.

Depression is not due to lack of Jesus. In some cases, it's caused by being forced to put up with Jesus and his batshit crazy followers.

Derick, sweetie, I say this with all the contempt I can muster - shut up, sit down, and focus on continuing to fuck up your own life instead of other people's. Seriously, fuck off HippieJesus. 

[MyMilkshake]

23 minutes ago, BabyBottlePop said:

  Just holding back every emotion but joy has got to do awful things to your psyche. 

It actually does!
Flight attendants have been found to have high rates of depression because they are expected to be pleasant, cheerful and polite the whole time they are working, and the forced cheerfulness while suppressing any real emotions can really mess with a person.

[season of life]

I thought for a second Derick or Jill may be opening up about their own experiences with depression, if they had any, but then I realized they're never going to be that sincere without wanting to shove Jesus down our throats. Thank you for saving me the click. Assholes.

[nastyhobbitses]

2 hours ago, season of life said:

I thought for a second Derick or Jill may be opening up about their own experiences with depression, if they had any, but then I realized they're never going to be that sincere without wanting to shove Jesus down our throats. Thank you for saving me the click. Assholes.

The post also tells me that Derick probably wasn't the awesome supportive husband to Jill we all kept say he'd be when the molestation scandal came out. Based on this post, I wouldn't be surprised if his "support" for his wife was to tell her that it was probably her fault that her brother molested her and she should just slap a smile on and pray for forgiveness for feeling sad and getting sexually assaulted and feeling sad about being sexually assaulted.

[Purrl]

When I was actively going to church and Bible studies I was always being encouraged to read this self-help book, or that one. I finally had to give them all up because all they managed to do was make me feel worse about myself, get even more depressed, even fatter, less organized, feel like less of a woman, wife & mother, etc. Because I just could never be all the things those Christian & secular authors said I should be.

I finally came to realize that if God doesn't expect me to be perfect no one else should, 'cause I just ain't gonna be no matter how hard I try. And now I really am happier, healthier and more spiritual, and my husband and daughter love me just the way I am.

[CorruptionInc.]

As a lady who loves men and women both equally... My depression started when teachers at school used to judge me because of my relationship with another teenage girl. I was a big catholic then and still carried a lot of faith. Sorry Derrick, but you're WRONG! You sound stupid and uneducated like your wife. Shut your mouth!

[SilverBeach]

4 hours ago, Purrl said:

When I was actively going to church and Bible studies I was always being encouraged to read this self-help book, or that one. I finally had to give them all up because all they managed to do was make me feel worse about myself, get even more depressed, even fatter, less organized, feel like less of a woman, wife & mother, etc. Because I just could never be all the things those Christian & secular authors said I should be.

I finally came to realize that if God doesn't expect me to be perfect no one else should, 'cause I just ain't gonna be no matter how hard I try. And now I really am happier, healthier and more spiritual, and my husband and daughter love me just the way I am.

I would like this a thousand times if I could, particularly the last paragraph. At some point, we need to accept ourselves, warts and all. Sure, genuine issues should be dealt with, but a constant quest for improvement and perfection can be counter productive. 

[DarkAnts]

Derek, I have depression because of genetics. So in your world, God made me that way. 

[nastyhobbitses]

13 hours ago, MyMilkshake said:

It actually does!
Flight attendants have been found to have high rates of depression because they are expected to be pleasant, cheerful and polite the whole time they are working, and the forced cheerfulness while suppressing any real emotions can really mess with a person.

Don't let them in...don't let them see...be the good girl you always have to be...

Something tells me fundies (and flight attendants' bosses) would listen to that bit from Let It Go and think that was the message of the song.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

In regards to Derek's idiocy on depression, if they watched more TV they would remember what that shit did to Tom Cruise.  The phrase ignorance is bliss comes to mind, there is something to the keeping them dumb that they practice.  The less they know the less they realize their lives suck. Not that they can't suffer from depression/anxiety other wise, trust me I know I suffer from Anxiety induced depression. I just think that they feel if they are willfully ignorant they will stay happy in God.  For Fundies and Fundie lites that I know it is all about how they look to others.  We all know it doesn't matter if the females are miserable, the men don't care, but get the women in small tight groups and you hear about how miserable they are, but when you see them Sunday morning at church they are all smiles all made up like life is perfection. 

[theinvisiblegirl]

The comments on this though... They seriously lack common sense, don't they?

[Jinder Roles]

38 minutes ago, theinvisiblegirl said:

The comments on this though... They seriously lack common sense, don't they?

To be fair, there are some people politely telling Derick to fuck off. 

He really doesn't get it. As a Chrisitan with anxiety and depression I can say that people quoting scripture to me isnt helpful. Describing anxiety as sinful is not helpful. I convinced myself for a year that I didn't have a 'real problem' while my anxiety and depression got worse. I stopped functioning altogether at one point. 

Given the Duggars history of questionable counseling I  lol'd hard when Derick said to go to a Christian counselor. Honey, I don't need to pray harder. I need CBT therapy and better coping skills. 

[choralcrusader8613]

7 minutes ago, Jinder Roles said:

Given the Duggars history of questionable counseling I  lol'd hard when Derick said to go to a Christian counselor. Honey, I don't need to pray harder. I need CBT therapy and better coping skills. 

Exactly. My favorite comment was when someone said that reading the Bible was possible when they were able to get the motivation, but there's a point in depression where you don't really want to do anything, let alone read the Bible.

The Duggars and their relations are people my family would describe as "people who approach everything with an open mouth." Clearly someone failed at teaching them how to listen twice as much as you talk.

[EmCatlyn]

10 hours ago, nastyhobbitses said:

The post also tells me that Derick probably wasn't the awesome supportive husband to Jill we all kept say he'd be when the molestation scandal came out. Based on this post, I wouldn't be surprised if his "support" for his wife was to tell her that it was probably her fault that her brother molested her and she should just slap a smile on and pray for forgiveness for feeling sad and getting sexually assaulted and feeling sad about being sexually assaulted.

It is interesting how people may "read" things differently.  I actually watched most of the video (rare for me, because they are so boring)' and I didn't get the feeling that he would be impatient and lack compassion about the molestation.  I think he probably encouraged Jill to pray for help from Jesus, but I see nothing to suggest he would tell her it was her fault.

What I "hear" Derick saying is that we should emphasize God's message and His blessings over and above our everyday concerns and sorrows.  I think he is a very bad speaker. (It might help if he would write out his "semons" and use cue cards or a teleprompter.). However his message sounded more like he believes we should try to be happy, not that when bad things happen they are our fault.

I also think that a lot of this may come from his own battle with depression and/or some other  mood issues.  This seems to me a person who has difficulty dealing with his own emotions and who has found, in the rote acceptance of "God's message," an answer to how to set aside pain he cannot understand.   I "hear" him calling on others to share a "trust in Christ" which he has found a solution to his own difficulties.  

ETA -- I wasn't trying to suggest that he is saying anything useful to anyone who is truly suffering from depression or anxiety.  I was just pointing out that he was probably coming from personal experience, imperfectly understood.  Also, since Jill shares his frame of reference, she may have found his suggestions for prayer very encouraging and supportive.  Who knows?