Counting On- Part 10: Counting out in Central America!

[Ungodly Grandma]

14 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

Over the past year I've wondered if the division was over Josh's actions and how they handled it.  Looking back, its very clear that Boob and J'chelle didnt handle it well and clearly didnt have the ability to keep their children safe.  I can totally see a reasonable person with knowledge of the situation telling them to quit having kids until they can provide for and protect them.

If JB's dad was still alive, maybe he'd be here posting with us!

[Buzzard]

5 minutes ago, BabyBottlePop said:

Jimmy Lee actually sounds rational! How'd he'd end up with a son like Jim Bob?

Its funny fundie circular logic.  Both Boob and Michelle came from fairly "normal" christian families.  They were sent to a christian school where they met eachother, got a taste for kool aid, and started down the path to Makaiziville.

So... if there are actual schools that exist that can convert mainstream people into Duggars, why are those schools insufficient to educate the growing fundie broods?  By protecting their kids from teh ebil wurld through homeskooling they perpetuate an unsurvivable reality that HAS to breakdown within a generation or two.  They've essentially guaranteed that their beliefs cant survive.

If they want to raise kooks like themselves, they should educate them in the same way they were educated.

[BabyBottlePop]

Was looking at screen shots on wtffundies and there were several of Jimmy Lee soon before his death. Barely able to talk. They push him around in an office chair, not a wheelchair. Jim Bob couldn't find a 73 birthday candle, so he puts a ? Candle up instead. Mary trying to care for Jimmy Lee and the Bates show up for a visit. 

Like, wtf? How can you treat your parent or grandparent like that? There is obviously no family bond. It's so blatantly rude and more and more as I watch the Duggars, that even if you didn't have the molestation and AM scandals, there are so many hints and even obviously awful statements and acts the Duggars commit that I don't see how anyone could think this family is something to admire! 

[fraurosena]

2 hours ago, Buzzard said:

Its funny fundie circular logic.  Both Boob and Michelle came from fairly "normal" christian families.  They were sent to a christian school where they met eachother, got a taste for kool aid, and started down the path to Makaiziville.

So... if there are actual schools that exist that can convert mainstream people into Duggars, why are those schools insufficient to educate the growing fundie broods?  By protecting their kids from teh ebil wurld through homeskooling they perpetuate an unsurvivable reality that HAS to breakdown within a generation or two.  They've essentially guaranteed that their beliefs cant survive.

If they want to raise kooks like themselves, they should educate them in the same way they were educated.

Nooooo.... no, no, no! Don't give them any ideas! At least now we know that they're a dying breed... so, shhhh, and don't let on that they should get an edumacation in order to survive... 

[Denim Jumper]

8 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I've always assumed that in these huge families, all the children are starved for attention. So they probably constantly try to seek attention through religious acts. They probably get the most attention from the fundie parents. So they probably have no clue what being saved means but they know it gets them a lot of attention. 

It's also a lot of attention for the parents; it's great for their fundie-cred to have their progeny "get saved" at such a young age, because obviously they trained 'em up right. I saw this a lot at my husband's old church... and also the bewilderment on the part of the parents when the kids hit adolescence and start going through the expected rebellion. A lot of hand-wringing and lamenting "But she got saved at 6 years old; how can this be happening?"

[JesusCampSongs]

Oh hey, getting saved too young! Something I know about!

I got saved when I was six. I'd heard a sermon about Hell (I wasn't allowed to go to children's church; my mom thought I should be in the sanctuary, listening) and gotten really freaked out about it, so I asked for the preacher to come talk to me. I got saved on the cement blocks my then-stepdad used to change oil in the cars, and was given a series of cartoon workbooks about how to be a good Christian, complete with lists of Bible verses to memorize. I was pretty devoted to it, and studied the workbooks and the Bible every day before doing anything else. 

What my mother took for early religious devotion was actually a raging anxiety disorder (that was rapidly progressing into PTSD) resultant from her disorganized, shitty parenting. Twenty-five years and a master's degree later, I know that a six-year-old being that concerned about sin and salvation is a red flag, not some sign of superior religious development, and that I just wanted someone to love me and take care of me. I didn't need Jesus; I needed a not-awful parent.

Whenever I read about the fundie kids on here getting baptized at absurdly young ages, I feel so badly for them. 

[MoonFace]

6 hours ago, BabyBottlePop said:

Jimmy Lee actually sounds rational! How'd he'd end up with a son like Jim Bob?

Someone dropped Boob on his head and he landed on a bible?

[Toothfairy]

I hated how Jim Bob treated his father. He better hope his kids don't treat him like that

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 hour ago, Toothfairy said:

I hated how Jim Bob treated his father. He better hope his kids don't treat him like that

That's why he had so many! There has to be at least one that will take care of his ass when he's old!

[CorruptionInc.]

2 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

That's why he had so many! There has to be at least one that will take care of his ass when he's old!

Jana, please stand up.

Amazing how people do turn to religion - I had a violent ex who nearly killed me twice and got away with the fact that spousal rape does not apply to two females in a couple. I promptly ditched my religion after this relationship because I had lost all faith.

My Hillsong friend always tried to get me to go to church. No thanks.

Many years later (and some crappy boyfriends and girlfriends later) I have a brain, an ability to critically think as well as a much calmer temperament. 

[HarleyQuinn]

How do we know that Mary left the TTD house? I see posts speculating on why but none that say where we first heard it and what proof we have of it being true? Did they need to give her room to Tabitha Paine, the live in teacher?

[nst]

17 minutes ago, HarleyQuinn said:

How do we know that Mary left the TTD house? I see posts speculating on why but none that say where we first heard it and what proof we have of it being true? Did they need to give her room to Tabitha Paine, the live in teacher?

Joy saying - "we are going to go pick her up at her house" - kinda sums it up 

but then I could be wrong

[HarleyQuinn]

2 hours ago, nst said:

Joy saying - "we are going to go pick her up at her house" - kinda sums it up 

but then I could be wrong

Thank you. I didn't watch Counting On, only read the recaps here. 

[theinvisiblegirl]

1 hour ago, HarleyQuinn said:

Thank you. I didn't watch Counting On, only read the recaps here. 

It might have been in the Happy Birthday video they posted to their Facebook? I'm not sure, as I didn't watch that, but it was never really mentioned in Counting On.

[EmCatlyn]

On June 6, 2016 at 11:44 AM, BabyBottlePop said:

Jimmy Lee actually sounds rational! How'd he'd end up with a son like Jim Bob?

There were two parents raising JB.  Mary may seem sane compared to Michelle, but she has been linked to much of the Duggar self-promotion, and we have speculated that she may be the only woman JB occasionally listens to.

My reading of the situation is that Mary had major differences of opinion with Jimmy Lee, possibly over money and/or interpretations of what is "Christian" and little Jim Bob sided with mommy.  

Eventually, when JB went seriously fundie with Gothard and quiverful, Mary was supportive and JL told JB that he was wrong to bring more kids into the world than he could support.

 

[ksgranola1]

JL did not mince his words when Michelle got pregnant w/Josie. Said, something to the effect that women's bodies wear out & for good reason. He was polite about it, tho. Not afraid to give his opinion. Just like I tell my girls, I reserve the right to interfere at any time b/c I am your mother. Husbands come & go, but I'll always be their mother.

*kidding, of course-mostofthetime.*

All the clips they showed of him w/the grandkids & Amy. I wonder if that was a TLC setup or genuine.

As for Mary moving, I think Deanna was just feeling alone after her divorce & Amy gone.  Makes sense for Mary.

I'm sure they didn't put her out. Deanna might have offered & mary took her up on it. She & I are the same age; I can't take the chaos when  all 3 of my grands are here. 

[ChickenettiLuvr]

Oh, dear.  Now I'm really wishing I hadn't read the part about Sierra & her husband.  @OrchidBlossom is spot on in calling this gaslighting (on page 7).  It definitely is.  And Sierra is screwed.

Now I want to throw up.  (too many bad memories coming in waves ....)

[ChickenettiLuvr]

P.S. Chiming back on on JL Duggar --

I remember him commenting to the camera on JB & Michelle continuing to pop out kids:  "Two is all I could say grace over."  (or something like that)  My interpretation of this, piecing together several pieces of information:  JL & Mary most likely subsidized Duggarland for many years.  Mary is a very loving grandma, and most grandmas I know do a LOT for their grandkids.

... When my still-ATI friend (now former friend) arranged for me/us to go to Duggarland for a visit -- which would have been right when Joshley Scandal 1.0 broke -- one of my ulterior motives for going was to talk to Grandma Mary.

[nst]

7 hours ago, HarleyQuinn said:

Thank you. I didn't watch Counting On, only read the recaps here. 

that's from a facebook video post - not the show

[defraudedbychipendales]

10 hours ago, HarleyQuinn said:

How do we know that Mary left the TTD house? I see posts speculating on why but none that say where we first heard it and what proof we have of it being true? Did they need to give her room to Tabitha Paine, the live in teacher?

GM Mary is at JTTH!!!!1!!!!!!1!1!11!!!

[SPHASH]

On Monday, June 06, 2016 at 6:33 PM, Toothfairy said:

I hate how Jim Bob treated his father. He better hope his kids don't treat him like that

I hope they treat him worse, especially Jana, Jill, Jessa, Jinger,Joy, Josiah, Hannie, Jenny, and Jordyn.

[BabyBottlePop]

51 minutes ago, SPHASH said:

I hope they treat him worse, especially Jana, Jill, Jessa, Jinger,Joy, Josiah, Hannie, Jenny, and Jordyn.

JB in my opinion has it coming. He's such an arrogant ass. I keep waiting for him to go under financially.

[OrchidBlossom]

4 hours ago, ChickenettiLuvr said:

Oh, dear.  Now I'm really wishing I hadn't read the part about Sierra & her husband.  @OrchidBlossom is spot on in calling this gaslighting (on page 7).  It definitely is.  And Sierra is screwed.

Now I want to throw up.  (too many bad memories coming in waves ....)

I'm very sorry to have sparked those memories for you. But I appreciate the agreement, as I think that those forms of abuse are too often waved away as not-serious, when in fact they can do extreme lasting damage. It is those behaviors that do lend me some sympathy to people like Sierra. Although she is an adult and responsible for her own choices, I also believe Mark acted in a predatory way when she was vulnerable (and very young, wasn't he mid-twenties when they met and she was like 18?) and took advantage of that.

[ChickenettiLuvr]

Hey, no worries,  @OrchidBlossom.  Hugs.

It's just unnerving when someone astute as yourself points out something so disturbing. Although Sierra gives us so much snark fodder, she doesn't deserve the mind games. No one does. 

[Jinder Roles]

Beware: Unpopular Opinion Below!

I don't think we should be too quick to doubt JB on JL's behaviour growing up. Boob is a generally shitty and controlling person but maybe Jimmy Lee did treat his family poorly and was generally irresponsible and unreliable. 

Whenever JB talks about his upbringing he says that his dad did not have a "spiritual focus". That sounds like a euphemism for something more serious to me. And obviously something that had quite a negative impact on Boob (e.g: his excessive cheapness, his controlling behaviour, obsession with no debt in any circumstance). Duggars do have a tendency to exaggerate but they are also prone to minimizing. We really don't know what happened. 

JB profiting off his father's illness was shitty but let's not construe Jimmy Lee into some sort of hero.