Counting On- Part 10: Counting out in Central America!

[Larry]

34 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

Wasn't it mentioned that JB has a temper? Can't remember if it was mentioned on the show or I read it here.

I remember seeing stuff online a while back from a testimony JB gave where he said he didn't have an anger problem until he had kids... I tried searching and couldn't find it this time but this is what was written in the girls' book - “Not that he has a major anger problem,” they write, but Jim Bob has struggled with his temper after growing up with an angry dad. “Over the years he has gotten much better about not letting things stir up a spirit of anger in him,” the 19 Kids and Counting stars write, “but he would be the first to admit he has not completely conquered it.”

[apandaaries]

Can't recall if it was the show or the book, but they do mention JB's temper.  The children were supposed to put a hand on his hand or arm and let him know he was getting too upset.  That magically Biblically solved his anger issues, though apparently he still struggles a bit.  

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 hour ago, Larry said:

I remember seeing stuff online a while back from a testimony JB gave where he said he didn't have an anger problem until he had kids... I tried searching and couldn't find it this time but this is what was written in the girls' book - “Not that he has a major anger problem,” they write, but Jim Bob has struggled with his temper after growing up with an angry dad. “Over the years he has gotten much better about not letting things stir up a spirit of anger in him,” the 19 Kids and Counting stars write, “but he would be the first to admit he has not completely conquered it.”

Wouldn't anyone with 19 kids get angry sometimes? I'm always yelling at my kids and I only have 2....

[EmmieJ]

20 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Wouldn't anyone with 19 kids get angry sometimes? I'm always yelling at my kids and I only have 2....

LOL - I was thinking the same thing, and I just have the one.  My dad was a truly great guy in so many respects and I have nothing but love and good memories.  However, he had an Irish temperament, which meant he did sometimes lose his temper.  However, he never yelled at us - he would go outside to blow off steam.  I've got a hothead myself and especially when my son was younger, there were occasions where voices were raised

I don't think there's anything terribly wrong with reaching the end of your rope sometimes.  It's how you handle reaching that end that matters. 

[MoonFace]

On 6/1/2016 at 9:30 AM, Bad Wolf said:

Ben never struck me as a knight either. I had hopes for Derick, but I honestly don't know where he sees his life going right now.

TLC tried   to have Binwit and Dullard portrayed as knights in shining armor by the fancy proposals - but do you honestly think that the proposals would have been any more dramatic than Joshy's showing up at a restaurant with balloons on Anna's birthday if TLC wasn't footing the bill and using their creative team to set things up like the special song composed for Jillydilly or the big scavenger hunt/train ride for BlessedJessa? 

[Snarkylark]

3 minutes ago, MoonFace said:

TLC tried   to have Binwit and Dullard portrayed as knights in shining armor by the fancy proposals - but do you honestly think that the proposals would have been any more dramatic than Joshy's showing up at a restaurant with balloons on Anna's birthday if TLC wasn't footing the bill and using their creative team to set things up like the special song composed for Jillydilly or the big scavenger hunt/train ride for BlessedJessa? 

You know, that just reminded me how irritated I would have been if I was Jessa and told to change and handed an outfit in the proposal episode. Don't freaking hand me an outfit and expect me to change! 

[nst]

5 hours ago, MoonFace said:

TLC tried   to have Binwit and Dullard portrayed as knights in shining armor by the fancy proposals - but do you honestly think that the proposals would have been any more dramatic than Joshy's showing up at a restaurant with balloons on Anna's birthday if TLC wasn't footing the bill and using their creative team to set things up like the special song composed for Jillydilly or the big scavenger hunt/train ride for BlessedJessa? 

everything from the tacky restaurant to the way it was filmed to the whole cheapness of it - was awful of Josh and Anna's proposal

clearly TLC learned something for Derick to propose to Jill they way he did - 

and Jessa's well what 19 year old could have afforded all that ?

[CorruptionInc.]

On 6/2/2016 at 9:30 AM, Larry said:

Jim Bob has struggled with his temper after growing up with an angry dad.

 

I don't know how bad Jimmy Lee was because I didn't live with him but my gosh, WHY does JB always have to put his dad down and drag him through the mud?! Clearly they didn't get on?

[theinvisiblegirl]

4 minutes ago, CorruptionInc. said:

I don't know how bad Jimmy Lee was because I didn't live with him but my gosh, WHY does JB always have to put his dad down and drag him through the mud?! Clearly they didn't get on?

The girls put him down in their book, too. I haven't read it. It's on my shelf - I bought it before I saw the light about people like the Duggars, and I haven't been able to touch it. I feel bad donating it to my local library. Perhaps I'll bring it to a 4th of July party and hope they have a roaring fire pit going. Good fodder for that.

[Julifornia]

7 hours ago, CorruptionInc. said:

I don't know how bad Jimmy Lee was because I didn't live with him but my gosh, WHY does JB always have to put his dad down and drag him through the mud?! Clearly they didn't get on?

I have to wonder if he was anywhere near as bad as JB claims.  JB makes it sound like he was a spendthrift such that they were eating the rice from the centerpiece, but when he died he left behind a considerable real-estate portfolio.

Maybe he was angry because JB was his son.  JB even admits that he was a dull child.  Dull + Arrogant = Infuriating.

[JermajestyDuggar]

3 hours ago, Julifornia said:

I have to wonder if he was anywhere near as bad as JB claims.  JB makes it sound like he was a spendthrift such that they were eating the rice from the centerpiece, but when he died he left behind a considerable real-estate portfolio.

Maybe he was angry because JB was his son.  JB even admits that he was a dull child.  Dull + Arrogant = Infuriating.

JL was outspoken in one of the shows that he didn't approve of that many children. it was probably a bone of contention between the two.

[Julifornia]

1 hour ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

JL was outspoken in one of the shows that he didn't approve of that many children. it was probably a bone of contention between the two.

Yeah but that was much much later.  JB was 25 when they started popping out the babies doubletime.

[JermajestyDuggar]

23 minutes ago, Julifornia said:

Yeah but that was much much later.  JB was 25 when they started popping out the babies doubletime.

JL only had 2 kids so I imagine by the time JB had 5, JL was probably asking if they were going to stop anytime soon. And then gave up asking after the 10th, lol.

[Bad Wolf]

JB has been negative about his dad, but that's who he called when their RV broke down. I think they were on their way to Big Sandy. JL came immediately to help them. Easy to forget the good stuff, and concentrate on the bad. Also, he sent JB to a Christian school, and that costs money.

[SassyPants]

I'd imagine that seeing your GCs living in a 3 bedroom house that was soon to be demolished, eating entire meals of rice, wearing GW shoes, kids sleeping on the couch, a history of molestation within the family would be very hard...and seeing the parents continuing to procreate would prompt most sane parents to voice their opinion. 

The Duggars absolutely lost me as a viewer in the episode regarding JL's illness and death and wheeling him around in that desk chair...profiting off JL's death, unconscionable.

[TheDuggarnaut]

Regarding Jim Bob's temper: it would be a much bigger issue to have an angry parent coming at you with plumbing line, than one who went in the back yard to blow off steam. It's probably not the case now, but I bet when the oldest kids were little they had good cause to be afraid of him.

[Julifornia]

17 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

I'd imagine that seeing your GCs living in a 3 bedroom house that was soon to be demolished, eating entire meals of rice, wearing GW shoes, kids sleeping on the couch, a history of molestation within the family would be very hard...and seeing the parents continuing to procreate would prompt most sane parents to voice their opinion. 

The Duggars absolutely lost me as a viewer in the episode regarding JL's illness and death and wheeling him around in that desk chair...profiting off JL's death, unconscionable.

I might be remembering wrong, but when they had only like 5 kids or so, weren't they living in the back room of the sales office of the used car lot that JB was running?  I can see where that would cause some father/son tension.

[MatthewDuggar]

JB's treatment of his dad when he was dying just unnerves me.  That should have been kept off camera.  I have a feeling Mary and JB's dad really didn't have the best of relationships.  I can't recall seeing any interaction on camera between them before he was terminal, but I wonder if they had a relationship like my parents.  Basically they should have divorced since I was a baby.  I never saw them kiss or hug each other, they basically co-existed. In reality they were complete opposites.  They fought on occasion but it was never violent.  As I got older my mother basically just ignored my dad.  Then as a teen, my dad was diagnosed with bipolar disorder and suddenly my mother was like Joan of Ark and made sure he got proper treatment.  Once he was stabilized she went back to ignoring him.  Eventually, she ended up coming to live with me, she suffered a fall, broke a hip, got mild dementia and died due to COPD complications.   At the funeral/ celebration of life party for her, you would have thought they had a picture-perfect marriage based on my dad's actions/mood, etc.  As far as I am concerned, I never took sides or anything.  It was stressful, but it was their relationship, not mine.   It's all so bizarre and I'm sorry for blabbering, but I just have a feeling there's a lot more to the story as to why JB feels the way he did/does.

[OrchidBlossom]

On 6/1/2016 at 6:53 PM, Bad Wolf said:

Wasn't it mentioned that JB has a temper? Can't remember if it was mentioned on the show or I read it here.

I believe he (or his daughters?) have said he had a temper and he worked on it and tries to be calm now or something

[OrchidBlossom]

On 6/1/2016 at 6:46 PM, JermajestyDuggar said:

Definitely. But some abusers are very calm most of the time and these girls 1) have quick courtships/engagements and 2) are never alone with them. So it's very possible their future knight in shining armor could be abusive and they would never see the warning signs.

I think this happens quite a bit in religious extremeism generally, I wouldn't be surprised to hear IBLP is no exception. Especially emotional abuse. One thing that starkly stands out to me is in Sierra's description of her husband (where she calls him a bucket of cold water on her firecracker personality, which is also troublesome) she says:

Quote

He stood, calmly, with his back leaned up against the wall, arms folded, one leg propped up against the wall. And he calmly said "I'm sorry you feel that way, but that's not true. I love you, and you know that." And he walked out the door, got in the car, drove for long enough to completely freak me out, convincing myself that he had left me. Then he'd show back up, let me run to his arms, pick me up, take a deep breath in, and whisper "We love each other. This is just an attack." He let me sob like a broken child healing from wounds, he'd let me use his t-shirt sleeve to wipe my tears, he'd rub the small of my back and whisper "It's okay. It's going to be okay, babe."

This appears to not be describing one incident, but several, based on context. This is abusive behavior. Gaslighting/denying the other person's feelings, pretending to leave the person without notice so that they begin to doubt their behavior and are willing to cede more ground when you (inevitably) return, dismissing the argument (And by so doing, dismissing the other person's reasons for starting an argument), and otherwise distracting the person from continuing the discussion or making them feel like they are at fault for being upset is abusive behavior. It's a control tactic. If someone challenges you and steps out of line and you know they have a point, you either make it about why they are hurting you/hurting the relationship by being upset or you avoid the argument altogether by manipulating them into feeling compelled to drop it. The key is, Sierra probably feels like the argument was resolved. He says "its okay" and "we love each other". But he doesn't have to listen to her feelings or her needs. He just has to ditch and come back when she is most vulnerable. Lather, rinse, repeat until she stops arguing because she knows what will happen and she knows how terrible it will make her feel (but she blames herself). 

 

There is a wide range of abusive behavior, from sexual to physical to emotional. I think that Sierra's story is a good example of how biblical submission/fundie-ism preps women to rationalize abuse. This happens to be emotional but I am sure it takes many forms depending on the couple in question.

[nastyhobbitses]

12 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

JB has been negative about his dad, but that's who he called when their RV broke down. I think they were on their way to Big Sandy. JL came immediately to help them. Easy to forget the good stuff, and concentrate on the bad. Also, he sent JB to a Christian school, and that costs money.

They also had no problem trotting him out in front of the cameras in a wheeled office chair when he was dying of cancer, and turning his funeral into another cash-grab reality show episode. Honor thy father and mother, my ass.

[HarleyQuinn]

18 hours ago, Julifornia said:

I might be remembering wrong, but when they had only like 5 kids or so, weren't they living in the back room of the sales office of the used car lot that JB was running?  I can see where that would cause some father/son tension.

Wow, I never heard this story. Can someone clarify?

I never saw the infamous wheeling his dad around in an office chair episode, thank God. Maybe I'm miserembering, but didn't his dad drink? I doubt he was an alcoholic but to JB one beer might = black out drunk with issues. 

[theinvisiblegirl]

2 hours ago, HarleyQuinn said:

Wow, I never heard this story. Can someone clarify?

I never saw the infamous wheeling his dad around in an office chair episode, thank God. Maybe I'm miserembering, but didn't his dad drink? I doubt he was an alcoholic but to JB one beer might = black out drunk with issues. 

Yes, they lived in the back of the used car lot when they had it. Jim Bob did business in the front while Michelle kept house in the back. But, from what's described in the first book, she wasn't really all that good at keeping house, and there was a lot of clutter and such. No wonder they kept churning out kids so she would never have to do major housework again!

[JermajestyDuggar]

2 hours ago, theinvisiblegirl said:

Yes, they lived in the back of the used car lot when they had it. Jim Bob did business in the front while Michelle kept house in the back. But, from what's described in the first book, she wasn't really all that good at keeping house, and there was a lot of clutter and such. No wonder they kept churning out kids so she would never have to do major housework again!

I believe they still suck at keeping clutter at bay. They just have a shit load of buildings to hold all of their crap.

[ophelia]

On 3.6.2016 at 5:41 PM, JermajestyDuggar said:

JL was outspoken in one of the shows that he didn't approve of that many children. it was probably a bone of contention between the two.

I really liked about him that he disagreed with their QF-lifestyle in front of the camera. It was one of the most "real" moments of the whole show (I stopped watching years ago!). I always had a feelding though that his disagreement didn't keep him from having a close connection with his grandkids and that he really tried to invest in their lifes by spending time with them or teaching them new things. If I remember correctly he taught the kids to play chess.