Counting On- Part 10: Counting out in Central America!

[season of life]

I always thought JB was an ungrateful son. I doubt whatever Jimmy Lee did warranted the attacks on his reputation and name. Jim Bob was probably pissed off his own father disagreed with their lifestyle. I remember seeing Jimmy Lee on TV saying women needed to rest after giving birth and it wasn't a good thing for Michelle to have so many babies. And then it got played off like it was such a wildly inappropriate opinion to have.

[TheDuggarnaut]

I wonder if there was a falling out, or Mary was just over the whole situation there? She also seems to me like an independent person, so maybe she wanted out from JB' s umbrella of oppression, and unending laundry.

Typing that reminded me of what the anonymous person wrote who exposed Josh as a molester. Didn't that person say that Mary is worse than Boob?

 

Ugh sorry! This is the second time I've accidently replied to something pages back. Just ignore my newbie mistakes. 

[MoonFace]

On 6/1/2016 at 9:30 AM, Bad Wolf said:

I wonder if there was a falling out, or Mary was just over the whole situation there? She also seems to me like an independent person, so maybe she wanted out from JB' s umbrella of oppression, and unending laundry.

It could be that she is no longer needed at Boob's since TLC isn't filming there.   I'm sure that they got paid more if she were there so that was the real reason for having her hang around.   Now she's pretty much just another mouth to feed. 

By the way, where the hell was she sleeping?   In the laundry room on a pile of laundry? 

 

[2manyKidzzz]

I missed it, how do we know for sure that GrammaMary is no longer at the TTH?

[ophelia]

57 minutes ago, MoonFace said:

By the way, where the hell was she sleeping?   In the laundry room on a pile of laundry? 

 

I've asked this myself for several seasons.

And when did Amy's father leave her mother???? How could I possibly miss this??

[Fundie Bunny]

1 minute ago, ophelia said:

I've asked this myself for several seasons.

And when did Amy's father leave her mother???? How could I possibly miss this??

Just after her wedding I think

[ophelia]

@Fundie Bunny Thank you!

This is the first time I ever feel sorry for Amy. Did she post anything about that on her social media? I don't follow her that close, she is just too annoying.

[season of life]

Ophelia, I know Amy made a comment either on Twitter or her blog or Instagram about how she found out. I think her dad told her in a text message. Plus, their divorce was announced in the Arkansas newspaper, just like you'd announce a wedding.

[Fundie Bunny]

Didn't she say something on people magazine? I think it was around christmas. I would search, but i'm way too lazy for it

[ophelia]

49 minutes ago, season of life said:

Ophelia, I know Amy made a comment either on Twitter or her blog or Instagram about how she found out. I think her dad told her in a text message. Plus, their divorce was announced in the Arkansas newspaper, just like you'd announce a wedding.

Thank you!! Is it a common thing to announce a divorce in a newspaper in the US? I never saw that in Germany.

35 minutes ago, Fundie Bunny said:

Didn't she say something on people magazine? I think it was around christmas. I would search, but i'm way too lazy for it

I'm too lazy, too tired, too sweaty. But I have a full day of procastrinating at the office in front of me, so I hopefully have time to search tomorrow.

[marmalade]

On 6/3/2016 at 11:56 AM, Bad Wolf said:

JB has been negative about his dad, but that's who he called when their RV broke down. I think they were on their way to Big Sandy. JL came immediately to help them. Easy to forget the good stuff, and concentrate on the bad. Also, he sent JB to a Christian school, and that costs money.

JB has intimated in his speeches to churches that it was MARY who held the family together, because JL was essentially an absent father. I have a feeling it was Mary who called the shots regarding sending JB to the Christian school. Keep in mind, it was also a new school, so tuition may not ave been that expensive, and it was basically too late for Deanna to also attend (she would have been a senior when JB was a freshman when the school opened). JB spent plenty of time in public school before Shiloh Christian.

edited to add to the recent drift: the Jordan/Duggar split happened right before Christmas. I want to say 12/21ish. The date is on the public documents posted at that time. I'm just too lazy to dig them up. 

[season of life]

@ophelia, I found an article on the Duggar/Jordan divorce and Amy's response to it. It's from usmagazine.com. Here's how she found out: 

“They have had an on/off relationship for a long time,” she admitted to ET. “It's sad they can't be a team. The divorce papers came, and my dad told me through a text on Christmas. I don't think he meant to, he just didn't know what to do. I was devastated. It hit me so hard."

According to the divorce documents, Terry claims that his ex-wife had treated him “with such indignities as to render his condition in life intolerable.” They separated on Sunday, December 20, with Terry filing for divorce a day later.

On Pickles' FB page (check it out if you've never seen it before), there was a pic of the divorce announcement and someone commented that in some places, it's actually required by law to print out divorce filings in a section of the newspaper. I have no idea about Arkansas, but their divorce is out there.

[Glasgowghirl]

I feel sorry for Amy she should have been told in person about the divorce. I hope Deanna and Amy are getting the support they need of someone and that Jim Bob doesn't try to judge his sister for getting a divorce given what has happened with Josh.

[EmCatlyn]

13 hours ago, nastyhobbitses said:

I don't know about the cultural norms in Presumably El Salvador, but in some Latin American/South American countries, using the "tú" form with someone you aren't intimate with/is older than you/is your professional superior is a massive no-no. I've also heard that in some places, conspicuously "tuteando" someone is a way of saying "I'm above you and therefore I can use informal ways to address you". Or "I'm flirting with you by acting like we're on more familiar terms than we actually are".

I don't know the customs in El Salvador, but I can affirm, having recently been involved in some professional/social dealings with Guatemalans who are my social equals that the usted form between adult equals who do not know each other well is still the norm there.  This implies that the form is used in all relationships requiring "respect" and that to tutear is rude.

However, I can also testify that (a) tutear is not a big deal in all Spanish speaking countries, (b) it is possible the doctor invited Derick to use the familiar form, and (c) all of us native speakers of Spanish know that the tu/usted distinction is hard for non-native speakers; so we don't take offense when a non-native speaker uses the wrong form.  

In short, I refuse to snark at Derick about this.  He is just getting started in the language.

 

[ophelia]

5 hours ago, Glasgowghirl said:

I feel sorry for Amy she should have been told in person about the divorce. I hope Deanna and Amy are getting the support they need of someone and that Jim Bob doesn't try to judge his sister for getting a divorce given what has happened with Josh.

I can totally see JB and Juterus being all judgemental about the divorce. They are probably telling their kids for the eleventyth time how important it is to protect their hearts and all that crap.

7 hours ago, season of life said:

@ophelia, I found an article on the Duggar/Jordan divorce and Amy's response to it. It's from usmagazine.com. Here's how she found out

Thank you! That sounds terrible. Her dad should have take the time to sit down and talk to her.

[nastyhobbitses]

14 hours ago, lascuba said:

That's always been my assumption. Fundies especially love to dramatize their life stories to make their "saved by Jesus" anecdotes pop more. It's why you have fundie teens going on about how they were saved from sin when they were 5 years old. 

The "I was saved from sin at five" stories perplex me so much. What sins were you committing at five? Stealing a cookie from the cookie jar? Saying "poopyhead"?

[ophelia]

47 minutes ago, nastyhobbitses said:

The "I was saved from sin at five" stories perplex me so much. What sins were you committing at five? Stealing a cookie from the cookie jar? Saying "poopyhead"?

I think this has a lot to do with children being raised with the mindset that they are sinners. There was a youth group especially for boys a few years back when I still lived in my hometown. The group was open for boys ages 7-10 and they played a lot of soccer, made field trips, build things and stuff like that. Actually quite normal and nice group activities for boys this age. The two guys that lead the group, they were both in their early twenties, seemed really open minded and funny, they looked like typical skaterboys and didn't appear odd at all. Since it was a Christian youthgroup they of course read stories from the bible with they boys and talked about Jesus and character qualitities etc. But then they started to talk more and more about sin. Sinners, sinful thinking and how only the commitment to Jesus and his salvation could save you. They had spend a lot of time with this boys, knew them and their backrounds well and used all that knowledge to convince the boys of their sinful nature. They shouted at the boys, screamed at them up to the point where the first one started to break down and was laying on the floor crying and begging for salvation. This was the last time my brother went there. It was years later that he told me what happened and ever since he has huge issues with Christianity and the church.

I think similar things happen in fundie families. You just have to put enough guilt and shame on a 5 year old and sooner or later the child will break. It's sick.

[nastyhobbitses]

33 minutes ago, ophelia said:

I think this has a lot to do with children being raised with the mindset that they are sinners. There was a youth group especially for boys a few years back when I still lived in my hometown. The group was open for boys ages 7-10 and they played a lot of soccer, made field trips, build things and stuff like that. Actually quite normal and nice group activities for boys this age. The two guys that lead the group, they were both in their early twenties, seemed really open minded and funny, they looked like typical skaterboys and didn't appear odd at all. Since it was a Christian youthgroup they of course read stories from the bible with they boys and talked about Jesus and character qualitities etc. But then they started to talk more and more about sin. Sinners, sinful thinking and how only the commitment to Jesus and his salvation could save you. They had spend a lot of time with this boys, knew them and their backrounds well and used all that knowledge to convince the boys of their sinful nature. They shouted at the boys, screamed at them up to the point where the first one started to break down and was laying on the floor crying and begging for salvation. This was the last time my brother went there. It was years later that he told me what happened and ever since he has huge issues with Christianity and the church.

I think similar things happen in fundie families. You just have to put enough guilt and shame on a 5 year old and sooner or later the child will break. It's sick.

Yeah, I really want to tell some of those teens "no, you weren't 'saved' at five; your parents just guilted, shamed, and scared you into saying what they wanted to hear".

[ophelia]

Exactly. And they cause so much damage by doing so. It is heartbreaking and I don't see how the gospel advocates this!

[Ungodly Grandma]

2 hours ago, nastyhobbitses said:

Yeah, I really want to tell some of those teens "no, you weren't 'saved' at five; your parents just guilted, shamed, and scared you into saying what they wanted to hear".

In a very large family, a child will probably say or do a lot of things for attention.

[JermajestyDuggar]

2 hours ago, Ungodly Grandma said:

In a very large family, a child will probably say or do a lot of things for attention.

I've always assumed that in these huge families, all the children are starved for attention. So they probably constantly try to seek attention through religious acts. They probably get the most attention from the fundie parents. So they probably have no clue what being saved means but they know it gets them a lot of attention. 

[Ungodly Grandma]

1 hour ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I've always assumed that in these huge families, all the children are starved for attention. So they probably constantly try to seek attention through religious acts. They probably get the most attention from the fundie parents. So they probably have no clue what being saved means but they know it gets them a lot of attention. 

Imagine the ones who are exposed to people speaking in tongues???

[Buzzard]

22 hours ago, season of life said:

I always thought JB was an ungrateful son. I doubt whatever Jimmy Lee did warranted the attacks on his reputation and name. Jim Bob was probably pissed off his own father disagreed with their lifestyle. I remember seeing Jimmy Lee on TV saying women needed to rest after giving birth and it wasn't a good thing for Michelle to have so many babies. And then it got played off like it was such a wildly inappropriate opinion to have.

Over the past year I've wondered if the division was over Josh's actions and how they handled it.  Looking back, its very clear that Boob and J'chelle didnt handle it well and clearly didnt have the ability to keep their children safe.  I can totally see a reasonable person with knowledge of the situation telling them to quit having kids until they can provide for and protect them.

[2manyKidzzz]

6 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

Over the past year I've wondered if the division was over Josh's actions and how they handled it.  Looking back, its very clear that Boob and J'chelle didnt handle it well and clearly didnt have the ability to keep their children safe.  I can totally see a reasonable person with knowledge of the situation telling them to quit having kids until they can provide for and protect them.

And yes, JL didn't agree with unlimited children, and they lived then in a three bedroom home with one bathroom (correct me if I'm wrong on that). So when they found out what Josh had done, of course Mary and JL would look even more askance at the whole cult business. IMHO. I would be just sick if my kids had done that neverendingkids thing. 

[BabyBottlePop]

Jimmy Lee actually sounds rational! How'd he'd end up with a son like Jim Bob?