Jill and Jessa Counting On - Part 4

[Imagine20]

TLC introduced and made the Duggars into the brand they are today for no reason except to make money.  They edited the Duggar story from the very beginning to market it to the public.  Without TLC, the Duggars would still be in a cramped little house, buying everything used, and eating rice as an entire meal.  We wouldn't even be here discussing this without TLC.

Even if they weren't tipped off with an anonymous letter like Oprah, there has been chatter online since the first specials that they had skeletons in their prayer closet and odd things shown in those early years that we look back on now and in hindsight realize it was off. For example, there's a scene where Josh has his head shaved, and I think people have matched up that special with the time Josh would've been doing his "counseling" after admitting to the molestations. (I think it was here it was discussed right after the scandal broke.) I really want to say it was that first special 14 Kids and Counting, and it was just a split second where the boys were getting food and you see bald Josh, then *poof* he's gone. That was the point TLC would've been on notice something was up with this family. Who sends their teenage son off somewhere and he comes back with a shaved head?  His hair is long in every other scene he's in, it's just that split second it's buzzed.

They didn't discuss on the show where he went and what he did, which is something they would've delved into if they were journalists or documentary makers. They also would've dug into ATI/IBPL, as well, because I'm sure the homeschooling thing was shown and so was "ATI or bust" (or something similar) written on the back of their vehicle at one point when they briefly explained they were off to Big Sandy, TX. But they're not journalists and they didn't explain any of it. At that time it was docu-tainment with the cheesy narrations, now it's just ridiculous and creepy how they're just pretending things are just fine in the family to try to squeeze a few more dollars out of the situation.

[GreenTea]

2 hours ago, Four is Enough said:

This brings up a question for me. If a crew member has signed a "non disclosure" agreement, how is he protected by law if he goes ahead and reports child abuse? I would think that child safety is paramount in any case. But if someone who'd signed a non disclosure agreement then "broke" the agreement to protect a child, what would happen? I imagine he'd lose his job, and possibly be blackballed in the tv community. I'm not saying that's right or ethical, by the way, I'm just imagining what might happen. Can anyone shed some light on this for me?

I'd like to know that children are protected, but I get the idea that crews hide behind non disclosure agreements when they see something "off".

There is something called a "mandated reporter" where if you work with children you are required to report abuse. It can be reported confidentiality.  

http://www.d2l.org/site/c.4dICIJOkGcISE/b.8032501/k.B6F4/Mandated_Reporters.htm

[SassyPants]

I think after Jon and Kate Gosselin the Duggars (albeit false) looked like a breath of fresh air. Didn't Jim ask to be reassigned away from the Gosselins, even before their family and show imploded?

[quiverofdoubt]

I imagine a lot of political games have been played around this show. Anyone higher up with any culpability kept themselves far away from the specifics. The execs may know the names of the shows, time slots, ratings, but may not even watch the shows. They keep themselves at a legal distance from the staff and crews between them and the actual family. Lawyers are involved with all the shows. They aren't legally liable for reporting anything seen in the duggars house, and they aren't liable for injuries during deadliest catch. 

I can't imagine the crews on the ground in the duggars house never saw anything off, or reportable. And I bet if the various shifts and crews sat down and compared notes they would've discovered a bigger picture that would have terrified them. They may have even reported to their superiors at tlc to figure out what they saw and if they should report. And those people, who may not have had real contact with the family, said no worries, we'll take care of it and there it died. To protect the show, the station the higher ups. 

The camera crews were probably unclear on their mandatory reporter status. They weren't hired to work directly with the kids like teachers or doctors, it may have felt gray. Especially if all they had to go on were rumors and suspicions. If they didn't actually see a kid bruised or being hit, didn't see the prayer closet in use, told some fantasy about Josh's whereabouts. It's possible all they had was an inkling, a deep suspicion. But nothing concrete. Or they did report, a file was made, but nothing substantial enough was ever reported to precipitate a full on dhs investigation. It takes more than one call for the overwhelmed social service dept to act, especially if the reports are mere suspicions. 

Tlc has a fair amount of culpability here, but how much they knew, who knew what, what evidence they really had? That would be a complicated court case, and is probably impossible to pin down.  I don't think any of them did the responsible or right thing, and they continue to do damage with the scandal specials and the counting on show. Especially since they may still be converting people to this cult. 

[anotherone]

3 hours ago, blessalessi said:

IF TLC reported the Duggars (and we have no evidence that they did), then I think that they made a seriously shitty decision to go ahead with the show and promote the Duggars as wholesome parents, on the basis that a teenager sex-offender given "a stern talking-to" was no longer a danger to his siblings, or at risk himself of growing up to be a very damaged individual. By all accounts, Oprah reported the concern AND stopped transmission of the show.  TLC's behaviour is about as far from "Just like Oprah" as I can imagine.

I have no more to say, really, except that THIS IS NOT A DUGGAR FANSITE. Telling people who are neither Duggar Fans nor TLC Groupies to "stop shooting the messenger" and/or advising them that "maybe the internet is not for you" is likely to get some push back.

 

 

14 hours ago, CreationMuseumSeasonPass said:

I'm a journalist. War correspondents have risked being kidnapped, beheaded by ISIS and sexual assaults on the streets of Cairo during the Egyptian revolution. I know the original comment wasn't meant to offend, but please REFRAIN from comparing TLC executives to people who literally put their LIVES on the line to shine the light of truth in a dark world.

 

Well I think it's clear from any  of my posts I'm not a Duggar fan.

But ordering me to "REFRAIN from comparing" one thing to another is going to get pushback as well.  You have your opinion about TLC's behavior, I have mine.  As far as I understood, I'm allowed to post my opinion.  You can reply all you want, downgrade me if you like, or kick me off the board if I violate the TOU.  But otherwise I will compare whatever I like to whatever else I like and continue to post my opinion.

[blessalessi]

1 minute ago, anotherone said:

Well I think it's clear from any  of my posts I'm not a Duggar fan.

But ordering me to "REFRAIN from comparing" one thing to another is going to get pushback as well.  You have your opinion about TLC's behavior, I have mine.  As far as I understood, I'm allowed to post my opinion.  You can reply all you want, downgrade me if you like, or kick me off the board if I violate the TOU.  But otherwise I will compare whatever I like to whatever else I like and continue to post my opinion.

It wasn't at all clear to me, and I'm not sure why you quoted me as part of your pushback but, oh well. Post away. 

[biblelandjunkie]

3 hours ago, GreenTea said:

There is something called a "mandated reporter" where if you work with children you are required to report abuse. It can be reported confidentiality.  

http://www.d2l.org/site/c.4dICIJOkGcISE/b.8032501/k.B6F4/Mandated_Reporters.htm

If I remember correctly we have a mega church/cult with a school here in Oklahoma that had a custodian who molested and raped several females.  Victim reported it to preachers son and daughter in law, and some other folks in charge.  Those in charge reported it two weeks later to a sex trafficking unit officer who was friendly to church/cult.   The son and daughter in law got off without prison time (good and expensive lawyers and judge and unlimited $$$ from preacher mother)...but the others got 30 days in jail (counselor and a young secretary and another).  Sadly the mother of one victim was going to sue but was coerced to settle for minimum amount or such...the church was even asking judge to drop suit wich was only for $75,000...I am sure the mother had mounting therapy bills and needed the funds for that.  Damn church didn't think they needed the money...Jesus ya know.  God I hate that church....evil evil people attend and are in charge.  

[patsymae]

Is the Food Nanny still around? I would love to see an episode where she shows up yo "rescue" Duggar dinner time and teach Michelle and her spawn how to plan and cook decent meals

[Mothership]

For me, the bottom line with TLC is that regardless of what they knew 10years ago (and we can speculate and presume, but we'll likely never know), in the last year, they've learned everything and/or had allegations confirmed.

Fans can make all kinds of excuses for why they aired the show to begin with, they simply have no excuse for continuing to give the Duggars a show now.

[TXGirlInAMaterialWorld]

Deleted due to negative responses- once others make it personal it's best to just bow out. 

 

[MayMay1123]

i wonder if they're going to have "girl days" and "boy days" at the treehouse

[blessalessi]

I'm not sure that drive-by photoshoots are allowed to be reported here?

In any case, taking photos of the kids play fort is creepy and could make them feel scared to let the kids play outside. The security cameras sound like a sensible idea to keep random paparazzi at bay.

 

 

 

 

[iweartanktops]

I think it's inappropriate to go to their property and photograph it and post it here. . I feel like it gives the impression that we, as a site, condone this behavior. I do not. 

I know they have a TV show, but this crosses a line to me. 

[quiverofdoubt]

I wonder what Ak laws are like in regards to car ownership.  My parents in CA and my dad somehow ended up with something like 6/7 cars under his name.  He had to do some shuffling around, because the limit was 6/7 (i can't remember which) before you had to declare yourself a car dealer and fill out extra paperwork and pay penalties or something.  Of course he has enough 16+ year olds in the house that they could have 6 cars registered in each other their names and still legally have a TON of vehicles on their property.

[EmmieJ]

15 minutes ago, iweartanktops said:

I think it's inappropriate to go to their property and photograph it and post it here. . I feel like it gives the impression that we, as a site, condone this behavior. I do not. 

I know they have a TV show, but this crosses a line to me. 

I understand your sentiments and if the admins of this site say this is not allowed, then okay.  But it's not like the poster climbed a fence, trespassed onto private property, pushed aside bushes or shrubbery, or otherwise did anything besides stop on a public roadway and take a couple pictures of an open and visible object (the treehouse).

[ClaraOswin]

4 hours ago, for_the_Kitties said:

I dont think there is anything substantial about anna hackle, except that NST does not like her. Last fall she got very angry whenever anyone mentioned AH, so people just stopped bringing AH up in comments. I'm still confused  why she is "off limits" and why we bow down to NST's wishes.

Who is Anna Hackle? I feel out of the loop.

[blessalessi]

9 minutes ago, EmmieJ said:

I understand your sentiments and if the admins of this site say this is not allowed, then okay.  But it's not like the poster climbed a fence, trespassed onto private property, pushed aside bushes or shrubbery, or otherwise did anything besides stop on a public roadway and take a couple pictures of an open and visible object (the treehouse).

I agree, it's not like any of those things, and not like bank robbery or murder, either!

But this is not just about my sentiments, it is because the poster seems to have broken this rule that was published by @Curious in the Spring Outlook on 26 March 2016:

Quote

* We have no desire to control our member's off-site interactions and/or behavior.  We do get to control the types of things that are talked about here, however.   Please do not post accounts of trolling a fundie's blog, driving by houses, going through their trash, etc.     You are certainly free to do all those things, but giving an audience to that kind of thing is not the place FJ wants to be.  Please be careful that you do not interact in such a way as to give the impression you are a representative of Free Jinger.

My sentiments are something like this: If it is OK to take photos of empty playground equipment today, and to describe the location of the security cameras installed on the property, then who knows how that information might be used, and what photos will be posted next time?

[EmmieJ]

2 minutes ago, ClaraOswin said:

Who is Anna Hackle? I feel out of the loop.

I have no idea who she is and why we should or should not mention her

2 minutes ago, blessalessi said:

I agree, it's not like any of those things, and not like bank robbery or murder, either!

But it did seem like the poster broke this rule that was published by @Curious in the Spring Outlook on 26 March 2016:

 

Okay - thank you for posting that info, because I did not recall if there was any specific rule or request by site admin about this sort of situation.  I'll let the admin people decide how to handle it, but I admit that I found the information the poster shared (about the number and type of vehicles parked at the house) and the photos interesting.  I hope that doesn't make me a creeper.

[FundieFarmer]

 

It appears that the poster has removed the photographs from driving by, as the community has provided feedback. We appreciate the concern, so helpmeets have reached out to @Curious & other admins for an official decision. As you may have seen in the recent Community Discussion threads, that clause was added to the Spring Outlook due to the fact that many posters expressed discomfort at some members doing extremely creepy & possibly illegal things, and then "reporting back for head pats". This guideline was put in place for those specific situations, and may not have represented innocent & non-illegal situations such as these. 

That said, if you wouldn't mind taking the conversation a different direction for a bit and extending some grace to each other in the meantime, we'll have an answer back regarding this matter as soon as we can!  

[choralcrusader8613]

12 minutes ago, EmmieJ said:

I have no idea who she is and why we should or should not mention her

Anna Hackel was one of Jessa's bridesmaids. 

[Jucifer]

4 hours ago, blessalessi said:

OK, well, as another poster said there are various ways that the law offers limited protection for people who report illegal activity.

To answer your question about non-disclosure agreements as they relate to employees, and in very broad terms because I haven't been a Certified Legal Professional for about 200 posts now, an employment contract is only valid if it has a legal objective. In the UK, for example, it not possible to enter into an employment contract where the objective is to work in a knocking shop, but it is perfectly legal to sign a contract to work in a corner shop. In its most basic form, an employment contract will probably specify the hours of work, the rate of pay, any holiday or sick leave entitlement, and it will set out the reasons for which the contract can be terminated by the employer, and the notice period required on either side. If an employee breaks the terms of the employment contract, and all other legal requirements have been observed, the employer can terminate the contract and get shot of the errant employee.

A non-disclosure agreement is an additional contract that sets out a specific agreement that the employee will not disclose trade secrets, ie, information that has been shared with the employee for a specific purpose. If they break the terms of the NDA the employee may be subject to additional sanctions beyond losing their job, in order to compensate the employer for any damages  The NDA again can only relate to a legal objective, such as recording the banal daily activities of an oversized family for distribution via a crap second-rate cable channel. In reality tv terms, this puts a gag on potentially gossipy crew members and ensures that the entire nation is completely gobsmacked every time that it is announced that a particularly fertile woman is pregnant again on a show, for example, called "14 kids and pregnant again". What it cannot do is gag employees from reporting illegal activity that is nothing at all to do with the terms of the contract.  

I had to look up 'knocking shop". It means exactly what I thought it would.

[blessalessi]

See what I did there?

[Buzzard]

I grudgingly watched the episode last night because I needed to kill time so I could FF through walking dead commercials.  I'm going to write this, but I'm prefacing it by saying that I know there is no answer:

Other than "gays and abortion are bad"  WTF do the duggars stand for?

Homeskool = awesome, yet the husbands had real educations

Wimmenz = housemaids, yet they cant cook or do "domestic" things - and they have been pimping the j'slaves in this series as worldly and strong women.

Debt = Bad, but they lend money and make money from credit cards

Sex = HUSBAND AND WIFE... yeah... 

Their message is so muddled at this point that I'm not sure even they know who they are anymore.  The girls arent sitting at home "waiting for prince charming."  The show is trying to make them out to be what they are NOT, but also what they are against.  

Its not a "ministry" anymore when the episodes are flipping cars, building treehouses, and hanging lights.  Thats tuesday to most people.  So... WTF?

[Wenny]

I always felt bad that they talk about Joy getting her period in the book. Way to throw lil sis under the bus. 

[Elegant Mess]

5 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

Its not a "ministry" anymore when the episodes are flipping cars, building treehouses, and hanging lights.  Thats tuesday to most people.  So... WTF?

Sounds like they need to take some tips from the Maxwells:

1.  Take initiative

2.  Prattle on about how the project made things better

3.  Mention how everyone was blessed

4.  Close with a relevant Bible verse

There you have it - a true ministry of tedium!