Lina and TT are getting married in six days....

[Witsec6]

Where did you read that? I can't see any mention of that on the blog? The most recent post I can see is about their one year anniversary!

It's on their joint facebook page. (AJ N Paulina)

[pimpom]

Oh my Gosh, the plot thickens. She really is one of my main sources of online entertainment of the 'I love being annoyed' kind. Especially now that Anna T has announced a temporary blog-stop...

[let-them-eat-cake]

Lina has posted that they will be having a civil ceremony on Monday, followed by a "ring ceremony" (whatever that is).

[GeoBQn]

She says she went to the mikvah. She said that the water was cold, which I find suspect since the (actual, kosher) mikvah I went to had water that was nice and warm. Taking votes--was her mikvah:

a. A community pool

b. Her bathtub

c. Hose in a kiddie pool

So much excitement in just one week! Although we are doing things very fast, we both feel we made the best decision. After all, it's the marriage itself that matters most, not the wedding :) I am happy we are taking a non-traditional route.

The non-traditional route? Ironic, since to Orthodox Jews, tradition is everything and they are apparently having a ceremony with none of it.

[onlyorganic]

Lina has posted that they will be having a civil ceremony on Monday, followed by a "ring ceremony" (whatever that is).

This is total contradiction. Bible-Believers see marriage as a covenant with God. A civil ceremony is only in the eyes of the law. I'm going of course off of the scoffs I got about not gettin' hitched in a real church and the lovely snarks I've seen on fundie blogs about having to deal with the drudgery of going to file the paperwork at the courthouse. Because if it's in God's eyes, it doesn't matter to the state, and it's just another random annoyance, the government wanting to be involved with what they shouldn't be, since God is sacred and above the law. So, a civil ceremony wouldn't have God involved, wouldn't be "in His house" and they'd still be sinning in the eyes of the Lord by lying together, just not "sinning" in the eyes of the Great State of Texas. Please, feel free to let me know if I'm wrong, but I've never heard of someone who follows a fundamentalist lifestyle dive into something like marriage without the Man Upstairs being at the head of the ceremony.

[defrauding]

Lina has posted that they will be having a civil ceremony on Monday, followed by a "ring ceremony" (whatever that is).

The ring ceremony is where they'll pretend to be Jewish by having Anthony mangle a Hebrew phrase and put a ring on Lina's finger.

I wonder if they're ambitious enough in their playacting to go for a fake ketubah (marriage contract) as well.

[mirele]

She says she went to the mikvah. She said that the water was cold, which I find suspect since the (actual, kosher) mikvah I went to had water that was nice and warm. Taking votes--was her mikvah:

a. A community pool

b. Her bathtub

c. Hose in a kiddie pool

My vote's on Barton Springs.

[bionicmlle]

I predict that she will have a baby around 8 months of marriage. Despite it being "premature", it will be suspiciously healthy and as large as a full-term baby. I expect she will be divorced either a few months before or a few months after the baby is born.

Yes! ITA. Mikvah stuff was weird -- I thought only married women needed to do mikvah?

That reminds me of another blogger I can't remember the name -- the girl was courting/betrothed and ended up getting divorced after several months of marriage and moved back in with her parents. There was suspicion (or more?) that the spouse was abusive. The girl started raising a pup to be a service animal for the blind and this gal's mom also keeps a blog. Anyone remember and can post link?? (sorry for derail)

[SunnyAndrsn]

You're thinking of Autumn. http:// autumn-alittleprincess.blogspot.com/

Her mother is Tracy, and her blog is unlessthelord

Yes! ITA. Mikvah stuff was weird -- I thought only married women needed to do mikvah?

That reminds me of another blogger I can't remember the name -- the girl was courting/betrothed and ended up getting divorced after several months of marriage and moved back in with her parents. There was suspicion (or more?) that the spouse was abusive. The girl started raising a pup to be a service animal for the blind and this gal's mom also keeps a blog. Anyone remember and can post link?? (sorry for derail)

[let-them-eat-cake]

Having had been in this fake Jewish thing myself, I am completely caught off guard by them doing a civil ceremony first. Obviously, the whole shomer negiah was way harder than they originally thought and can't keep their hands off each other for so long, so they are hurrying up the process.

Oh, and my vote is community pool (or possibly lake).

[GeoBQn]

Yes! ITA. Mikvah stuff was weird -- I thought only married women needed to do mikvah?

Women go for the first time in the week before they get married.

[Guest Anonymous]

This is total contradiction. Bible-Believers see marriage as a covenant with God. A civil ceremony is only in the eyes of the law. I'm going of course off of the scoffs I got about not gettin' hitched in a real church and the lovely snarks I've seen on fundie blogs about having to deal with the drudgery of going to file the paperwork at the courthouse. Because if it's in God's eyes, it doesn't matter to the state, and it's just another random annoyance, the government wanting to be involved with what they shouldn't be, since God is sacred and above the law. So, a civil ceremony wouldn't have God involved, wouldn't be "in His house" and they'd still be sinning in the eyes of the Lord by lying together, just not "sinning" in the eyes of the Great State of Texas. Please, feel free to let me know if I'm wrong, but I've never heard of someone who follows a fundamentalist lifestyle dive into something like marriage without the Man Upstairs being at the head of the ceremony.

Yeah, agreed. I have known many couples that have had a civil ceremony as well as a religious one, if for some reason the religious one didn't have a state registered celebrant, but usually the civil one is low-key and takes place close to what they consider the 'real wedding'. Usually as well, they treat the civil one as if it never happened and wait until married n the eyes of God to start doing each others' 'laundry'....

[onlyorganic]

The ring ceremony is where they'll pretend to be Jewish by having Anthony mangle a Hebrew phrase and put a ring on Lina's finger.

I wonder if they're ambitious enough in their playacting to go for a fake ketubah (marriage contract) as well.

Seems to me like this is another example of Lina picking and choosing what she wants to believe. They can get married by any random Joe who possesses a JP license, even if he goes home, kicks back with Tom Cruise and practices teh Scientology but they can't eat at a non-Kosher restaurant? I'm very adamant about this because she's so quick to say how diligent she is in living the lifestyle but if that's the case they should work to find an officiant in the church to marry them and give up teh sex and teh dirty boxers until the "i"'s are dotted, according to The Bible.

PS. PP, who also loves to tell us how heathen we are and how gay Michael Landon was, also married in a chapel in Vegas...

[Patsy]

I can understand having a civil ceremony and big ceremony separately, if there's... you know... reason for it?

Unless she's about to admit to wanting a big show, there's no reason to have the second orthodox show, if the paper marriage is legit and whole in God's eyes.

[oolong]

Oy, I never get to post anymore but I'm so excited Lina was back. She is my FAVORITE! I have high resistance to her annoying-ness and we are from the same place and she is a fellow weirdo... it's like I could BE her, if I was the sort of person who wanted to join religions and follow rules, which I am absolutely not.

Anyway, her marriage is so exciting to me. It feels just like when I was 16 and I got my first boyfriend and we were so in love! Poor Lina, I don't think she knows that at this stage "in love" = "on drugs" and it doesn't feel quite like that forever. Let's hope they have more backing up their relationship than that and playing Jewish (for the record, I have no issues with someone practicing religion like she does, but I don't understand why she wants to join the existing Jewish community and I would be sooo annoyed at her if I was a serious Jewish convert).

For the mikvah, I'd vote Barton Springs too except, you know, you can't be naked around there anymore and women even have to wear tops now. She'd have to go to a secluded spot and risk public nudity to do it, and I doubt she would. On the other hand maybe she went to a real mikvah... I don't know how they work those things. Can you just show up to a mikvah? Would they let her in? Our swimming pool still had nice warm water in it last week, so I doubt it was a pool.

It will be really funny if she has a "honeymoon baby". If you get married within a couple of weeks of finding out you're pregnant, you can still realistically claim you waited until the wedding night without even claiming prematurity, since some babies come a bit early and some a bit late. I suppose that with the quickie wedding, if there is a honeymoon baby, I will always suspect. When I was as young and in love as she is, there is no way I could have resisted!

And as for legal vs. spiritual marriage, well that is a bit annoying because a civil ceremony is NOT a religious wedding. I think anyone can be married instantly in Hashem's eyes by just saying so, but in that case it's silly to wait for this legal ceremony and act like it is The Marriage. I'd be willing to wager she hasn't thought of that though. Most people here (maybe anywhere) have difficulty separating the concept of legal marriage from spiritual marriage, and hence I am asked all the time whether I am "really" married, you know like for real? (because I was as married as a human gets in real terms for a least a couple of years before I signed the papers allowing me to access my husband's medical insurance) But fundies, you'd think, should understand the difference.

I really do wish Lina all the best. I just worry, as I do with all our young fundie brides, about her having babies right away. Lina especially has no realistic idea at all of what it is to be pregnant and give birth and take care of a baby and raise a child. I don't think she can handle baby after baby after baby. There is no laying bed all morning because you are exhausted when you have a dozen children.

[Beeks]

Isn't there a messianic orthodox community nearby that she has mentioned? I guarantee you they have a "mikvah" of their own. That's probably what she used.

I've only been to the mikveh once and it was right before I had my first baby. It was pretty cool.

[oolong]

Isn't there a messianic orthodox community nearby that she has mentioned? I guarantee you they have a "mikvah" of their own. That's probably what she used.

I've only been to the mikveh once and it was right before I had my first baby. It was pretty cool.

It looks like there are two. I wish she was clearer/would just own up to being either Jewish or "Messianic Jewish". I'll let her call herself Jewish (with the full understanding that there are different ideas as to what constitutes "Jewish"). But it seems like the Messiah is pretty important, and if she believes Jesus is the Messiah then it's sinful to hide it under a bushel, no? And if Jesus isn't the Messiah, why would you be afraid to say it? It shouldn't matter what her blog friends think.

[Witsec6]

She says she went to the mikvah. She said that the water was cold, which I find suspect since the (actual, kosher) mikvah I went to had water that was nice and warm. Taking votes--was her mikvah:

a. A community pool

b. Her bathtub

c. Hose in a kiddie pool

The non-traditional route? Ironic, since to Orthodox Jews, tradition is everything and they are apparently having a ceremony with none of it.

It might have been the real (messianic) Mikveh but Lina is so special that it was cold for her. I think we've established that she is a bit delicate.

[Witsec6]

And as for legal vs. spiritual marriage, well that is a bit annoying because a civil ceremony is NOT a religious wedding. I think anyone can be married instantly in Hashem's eyes by just saying so, but in that case it's silly to wait for this legal ceremony and act like it is The Marriage. I'd be willing to wager she hasn't thought of that though. Motst people here (maybe anywhere) have difficulty separating the concept of legal marriage from spiritual marriage.

Welcome back. Lina is definitely one of my favorites too. ITA about the statement above.

[FaustianSlip]

She says she went to the mikvah. She said that the water was cold, which I find suspect since the (actual, kosher) mikvah I went to had water that was nice and warm. Taking votes--was her mikvah:

a. A community pool

b. Her bathtub

c. Hose in a kiddie pool

Okay, I love the mental image of C, but I think A. Or, as has already been mentioned, possibly a lake. And I concur with your read on the mikvah; I went relatively recently (around six or seven months ago), and the water was way warmer than I expected. Body temperature warm. So I agree, I don't think she's going to a real mikvah. Though to answer Oolong's question, non-Orthodox mikvaot are relatively rare, and even with those, you have to make an appointment and stuff; you can't usually just randomly show up. An Orthodox mikvah is absolutely going to ask a few questions of someone who's not known in the community as to who they are, how they found the mikvah, et cetera. I don't think Lina would be at all capable of passing the sniff test on that one (especially since the Orthodox community in Austin has to be pretty small).

When I went, my visit was set up by my rabbi/beit din, so I basically just showed up, but I think even the Conservative mikvah I used would ask a couple of questions to make sure that you're actually Jewish before just letting you roll up and start taking your clothes off.

[Guest Anonymous]

Okay, I love the mental image of C, but I think A. Or, as has already been mentioned, possibly a lake. And I concur with your read on the mikvah; I went relatively recently (around six or seven months ago), and the water was way warmer than I expected. Body temperature warm. So I agree, I don't think she's going to a real mikvah. Though to answer Oolong's question, non-Orthodox mikvaot are relatively rare, and even with those, you have to make an appointment and stuff; you can't usually just randomly show up. An Orthodox mikvah is absolutely going to ask a few questions of someone who's not known in the community as to who they are, how they found the mikvah, et cetera. I don't think Lina would be at all capable of passing the sniff test on that one (especially since the Orthodox community in Austin has to be pretty small).

When I went, my visit was set up by my rabbi/beit din, so I basically just showed up, but I think even the Conservative mikvah I used would ask a couple of questions to make sure that you're actually Jewish before just letting you roll up and start taking your clothes off.

This is why despite the fact that there was an Orthodox one closer to my shul, we drove an extra 30 minutes to go to the Conservative one when I converted. Its also why I still use the Conservative one monthly. I have tattoos and it'd be probably "LUCY. You have some 'splainin to do!!!"

I too giggle at the kiddy pool mental image. What mystifies me is she's not from what I can tell made a formal conversion to either mainstream or "messanic" either. So..... my vote is either messianic mikveh (should such an animal exist) or swimmin pool or lake.

Put my vote in too for a "honeymoon baby" that is born a few weeks early.....

[lizzy]

Lina is my favorite fundy. She like watching a train wreck happen in slow motion. Can't wait for the wedding just to see what happens after.

[Dinorah]

Yes, it's odd because religious people who have a civil wedding as well consider the religious ceremony as the "real" one for all purposes.

Also, isn't it odd to stack groceries a whole 5 days before moving in? And with whose money are they paying for the appartment and the furniture? Also, I've mentioned this before but it still seems crazy to me that her parents are ok with this, considering they were so frustratred with her. Or Tony's, for the matter, she's never even met them.

[let-them-eat-cake]

Yes, it's odd because religious people who have a civil wedding as well consider the religious ceremony as the "real" one for all purposes.

Also, isn't it odd to stack groceries a whole 5 days before moving in? And with whose money are they paying for the appartment and the furniture? Also, I've mentioned this before but it still seems crazy to me that her parents are ok with this, considering they were so frustratred with her. Or Tony's, for the matter, she's never even met them.

Maybe they just think they're coming to meet her and "Surprise! We're getting married today!".

[snarkykitty]

Yes, it's odd because religious people who have a civil wedding as well consider the religious ceremony as the "real" one for all purposes.

Also, isn't it odd to stack groceries a whole 5 days before moving in? And with whose money are they paying for the appartment and the furniture? Also, I've mentioned this before but it still seems crazy to me that her parents are ok with this, considering they were so frustratred with her. Or Tony's, for the matter, she's never even met them.

His parents know. His mom has been lamenting him "leaving the nest." When they announced he got engaged (Sept 4), someone commented:

"I can't help thinking about all the girls with broken hearts left in AJ's wake. He's such a hottie stud!"

"He is quite the stud muffin!!!! AND, he has a heart of gold underneath all his cuteness!!!!"

*gag*