Meredith had her baby!

[Hisey]

Damn. This is what I was afraid of from the beginning.

A smart, sarcastic, not-terribly-nice guy with a sense of entitlement. A sweet, naive girl whose been taught to defer to men, whose father was unkind to her mother. A girl who feels intellectually inferior to her spouse. A girl whose family would not support her if she wanted a divorce. A baby born in the first year of marriage, before Mere has a chance to understand what kind of man Stephen is. And a baby means that an easy separation is no longer possible, if Mere would even consider it.

This is a recipe for abuse--emotional and/or physical. I hope I am wrong. At best, I don't think a kind, caring girl like Mere is going to be happy with a sarcastic know-it-all, not in the long-term.

Why, oh why, couldn't she have married a farm boy in Virginia? The fact that she never went to college made her over-awed by Stephen's credentials.

Anyone else worried about this situation? Frankly, I never thought Mere looked happy in any post-wedding picture.

[luckylibrarian]

You're not the only one who is worried. This guy sounds like a royal douchebag.

[Rachel333]

I've been creeped out by him since I heard the story. I find it creepy that any guy would want a woman like her. I mean it's totally understandable if he met her and fell in love, but for a very educated guy who probably met lots of smart interesting women in college to purposely seek out a girl with little education or experience of any kind who expects to be submissive to him? That worries me.

Thanks for sharing your experience, NeedDistractions. This is very interesting.

[hoipolloi]

Agree with you, Hisey, sad to say. Many of us have had bad feelings about this relationship, from the get-go. Check the threads on the old board & you'll see the plethora of comments along this line.

Doubt that Mr. Stephen actually said anything to Meredith prior to their marriage about his level of, uh, experience, let alone to her father or mother, who were supposedly vetting any would-be courting young men.

[NeedDistractions]

Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa... Yes, Steve's always had an air of entitlement. Yes, he was often judgmental and sarcastic. Everything I said was absolutely true. But do I think he would ever abuse his wife either physically or even emotionally?? No way! I have no idea what inspired his conversion during his time at Princeton or what he currently thinks about the world in general. I'm fairly certain he wants (and perhaps always wanted) a wife would would serve him and, for all intents and purposes, be his inferior. But I never ever EVER would say he's actually a bad person. He was a young pre-teen and teenager when I knew him. Even if he still maintained all of the same qualities today, I wouldn't think he was a truly bad person. Kind of a douchebag, maybe, but not the kind of guy who would abuse his wife or family. I am absolutely and completely baffled by his recent change in lifestyle. I can't even begin to comprehend how or why he made such a shift given his upbringing, but it's none of my business to understand it. I started posting on this forum because I thought it was hilarious that Steve has created such a stir among certain groups on the internet and I didn't feel like doing my actual work so I welcomed any distraction, but if what I said inspired anyone to think Steve would be possible of beating his wife, I thoroughly regret ever having been involved. It's quite a leap from an arrogant douche to a domestic abuser and, although I have not seen Steve in about 3 years so I guess I don't really know, that's a leap I could never in all honesty envision Steve making.

[atheistjd]

Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa... Yes, Steve's always had an air of entitlement. Yes, he was often judgmental and sarcastic. Everything I said was absolutely true. But do I think he would ever abuse his wife either physically or even emotionally?? No way! I have no idea what inspired his conversion during his time at Princeton or what he currently thinks about the world in general. I'm fairly certain he wants (and perhaps always wanted) a wife would would serve him and, for all intents and purposes, be his inferior. But I never ever EVER would say he's actually a bad person. He was a young pre-teen and teenager when I knew him. Even if he still maintained all of the same qualities today, I wouldn't think he was a truly bad person. Kind of a douchebag, maybe, but not the kind of guy who would abuse his wife or family. I am absolutely and completely baffled by his recent change in lifestyle. I can't even begin to comprehend how or why he made such a shift given his upbringing, but it's none of my business to understand it. I started posting on this forum because I thought it was hilarious that Steve has created such a stir among certain groups on the internet and I didn't feel like doing my actual work so I welcomed any distraction, but if what I said inspired anyone to think Steve would be possible of beating his wife, I thoroughly regret ever having been involved. It's quite a leap from an arrogant douche to a domestic abuser and, although I have not seen Steve in about 3 years so I guess I don't really know, that's a leap I could never in all honesty envision Steve making.

I don't think you gave anyone the wrong impression, nor do I think anything you said would indicate (to me, at least) any propensity for abuse. I think the creepy factor (trolling the stay-at-home-daughter blogs to find a helpmeet) is just amplified by his obviously high level of innate intelligence and seeming worldliness. The LIFESTYLE and culture he seems to have glommed onto (and his FIL being an A-hole who he obviously had to prove himself to) tends to lend itself to emotional abuse and has all the wrong ingredients which, in a worst case scenario, make it a comfortable situation for physical abusers to abuse. I didn't read anything you've said, nor anything anywhere about "Steve," to mean he will likely abuse Mer.

Also, since I am really curious, love newcomers, and am enjoying all the good fun, may I ask how you found this board in relation to Steven?

[Witsec1]

The thing is though, Meredith's family belongs to an extremist wing of protestant christianity that refuses all contraception or intervention in pregnancy, even to save the life of the mother. Meredith's mom suffered 2 life threatening incidents, a tubal pregnancy and a molar (cancerous) pregnancy. In both cases they went against medical advice and risked losing Meredith's mom. So that's the perspective we're coming from.

[atheistjd]

The thing is though, Meredith's family belongs to an extremist wing of protestant christianity that refuses all contraception or intervention in pregnancy, even to save the life of the mother. Meredith's mom suffered 2 life threatening incidents, a tubal pregnancy and a molar (cancerous) pregnancy. In both cases they went against medical advice and risked losing Meredith's mom. So that's the perspective we're coming from.

Yes, this. Nothing against Steve personally or any belief that he would physically abuse (IMO), but he chose to marry into a system that is very harmful (physically, as evidenced by Mrs. A's many risky pregnancies) to women. Which is pretty weird, especially coming from his background :?

[Rachel333]

I don't think many of us actually think Steve is physically abusing Meredith, but I do sort of think that a guy who wants a wife who is his inferior is kind of a bad person. I think most guys like that probably wouldn't ever actually be abusive, but those attitudes are troubling on their own.

Keep in mind that Meredith comes from a dangerous fundamentalist lifestyle, and we're looking at things from that side. Even though Steve creeps me out, I hope that he's less conservative than she is and will be a good influence on her.

[luckylibrarian]

I'm fairly certain he wants (and perhaps always wanted) a wife would would serve him and, for all intents and purposes, be his inferior.

If this is true, this is what creeps me out.

Like atheistjd said, nothing you said indicated that Stephen was or could become abusive to Meredith. The lifestyle that he has embraced is degrading and abusive to women. He may not be abusive now, but the potential for it exists as long as they are following the same path as her parents. Plenty of people that set off into the Quiverfull lifestyle start off as "normal" and undergo a radical personality change.

[NeedDistractions]

Yeah, no offense to anyone on this forum (I assume from this thread and a few others that you're all generally against this sect of Christianity but you never know), but all this super fundamental Christian stuff confuses me to no end. I definitely don't know how Steve's past will manifest itself with this new lifestyle, but I still just can't bring myself to think he'd ever be capable of abuse. I hope not, at least.

And in terms of how I found this board, a friend forwarded me pictures of Steve and Meredith's baby which re-sparked my curiosity in the whole situation. Some good ole creepy Googling ensued which led to her Facebook page, then her blog, then this website.

[Witsec1]

Also, in case you're wondering, the information about Meredith's mom is not something we had to dig for, they are open about it on their family website: http://alexanderadventures.com/gpage9.html

[atheistjd]

Yeah, no offense to anyone on this forum (I assume from this thread and a few others that you're all generally against this sect of Christianity but you never know), but all this super fundamental Christian stuff confuses me to no end. I definitely don't know how Steve's past will manifest itself with this new lifestyle, but I still just can't bring myself to think he'd ever be capable of abuse. I hope not, at least.

And in terms of how I found this board, a friend forwarded me pictures of Steve and Meredith's baby which re-sparked my curiosity in the whole situation. Some good ole creepy Googling ensued which led to her Facebook page, then her blog, then this website.

Well I am certainly not offended, but that's probably no surprise :mrgreen:

Also, love it. I'm pretty sure most of us found FJ in a similar way - found a gateway fundie, were genuinely intriqgued and/or creeped out, and then were lucky enough to stumble onto FJ. So welcome... and if you genuinely do need distractions, I can promise you going down this trail provides some very interesting ones... Enjoy ;)

[YPestis]

Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa... Yes, Steve's always had an air of entitlement. Yes, he was often judgmental and sarcastic. Everything I said was absolutely true. But do I think he would ever abuse his wife either physically or even emotionally?? No way! I have no idea what inspired his conversion during his time at Princeton or what he currently thinks about the world in general. I'm fairly certain he wants (and perhaps always wanted) a wife would would serve him and, for all intents and purposes, be his inferior. But I never ever EVER would say he's actually a bad person. He was a young pre-teen and teenager when I knew him. Even if he still maintained all of the same qualities today, I wouldn't think he was a truly bad person. Kind of a douchebag, maybe, but not the kind of guy who would abuse his wife or family. I am absolutely and completely baffled by his recent change in lifestyle. I can't even begin to comprehend how or why he made such a shift given his upbringing, but it's none of my business to understand it. I started posting on this forum because I thought it was hilarious that Steve has created such a stir among certain groups on the internet and I didn't feel like doing my actual work so I welcomed any distraction, but if what I said inspired anyone to think Steve would be possible of beating his wife, I thoroughly regret ever having been involved. It's quite a leap from an arrogant douche to a domestic abuser and, although I have not seen Steve in about 3 years so I guess I don't really know, that's a leap I could never in all honesty envision Steve making.

Any smart guy who purposefully seeks out a subservient wife that he can lord over his intelligence can very easily morph into an emotional abuser IMHO. If he believes that he is "better", then it's easy to expect life to be centered around HIM, to have major decisions made benefiting HIM.

If Steve's fundamental values have shifted, what's to say some of the other things also changed? Abuse isn't always about hitting a wife. It's about controlling her, being emotionally abusive. It's about creating a climate of control and fear. Physical abuse is just one, and perhaps an extreme, form of this type of abuse.

My best friend in college suffered through a similar relationship. Unlike Meredith and Steve, she was initially the more accomplished one. The guy had to lie to make himself sound smarter. When my friend decided against going to med school and her boyfriend went ahead and was accepted, the table was turned (in his view) and he became a douche towards her. Now, he was expecting her to defer to him in all major decisions. He was never thoughtful about her feelings or respected the sacrifices she made for him. In his view, my friend was benefiting the most from the relationship because she married someone who would make more money. My friend's boyfriend started expecting that she would wait on him hand and foot. Except my friend didn't toss her brain out, she left him. Good riddance.

I see a similar strain on Steve and Meredith. While there's nothing wrong with dating someone who is less educated or less intelligent than you, it's troublesome to see someone who ACTIVELY seek out someone he considers his intellectual inferior, whom he never has to worry about competing against. It speaks of an insecurity that can turn into something very abusive.

And I've met plenty of accomplished and smart individuals. I dated a few guys who were national merit scholars, I've been roommates or friends with people who had near or perfect SAT, ACT, SAT II, MCAT scores. I've known people who are accomplished researchers before they finished their teenage years. None of these people thought to actively search out and find a partner who would worship them or cater to their needs.

Being elitist doesn't mean pissing on those deemed by society as "intellectual inferior". These people certainly didn't act insecure enough to seek out someone they knew would never be a threat to their accomplishments. If someone like that tried to date me, I'd see it as a major red flag.

[NurseNell]

A sweet, naive girl whose been taught to defer to men, whose father was unkind to her mother. A girl who feels intellectually inferior to her spouse. A girl whose family would not support her if she wanted a divorce. .....

Anyone else worried about this situation? Frankly, I never thought Mere looked happy in any post-wedding picture.

I never knew Mere or Steve before here. I've been reading her mother's blog, and Mere's from when she was a SAHD. In what way was her father unkind to her mother? I read they were high school sweethearts. From photos they looked pretty normal as far as no fundie dresses, normal swim suits at the beach they love, shorts. Mere seems like a really sweet and nice person, and she has her husband on a pedestal, never a good thing. I hope he always treat her well.

I thought of something else I wanted to add:he found Mere by finding her blog. So it seems he was looking for a wife who fit a certain profile, someone he could control. Lots of people meet online and all works out so I hope that's true for them.

Nell

[NurseNell]

I see a similar strain on Steve and Meredith. While there's nothing wrong with dating someone who is less educated or less intelligent than you, it's troublesome to see someone who ACTIVELY seek out someone he considers his intellectual inferior, whom he never has to worry about competing against. It speaks of an insecurity that can turn into something very abusive.

My thoughts exactly.

Nell

[pomology]

Aw, Steve before his big religious conversions sounds like a person I would have liked. Yes, he sounds like a douchebag, but he sounds douchy in a way that I kind of find endearing.

But, yeah, for somebody like him to seek out a girl like Meredith? I do not fucking get it to the point that it's hard not to wonder what his ulterior motives may have been.

Ugh, I hope deep inside he's still kinda liberal.

Also, I am so glad for some reason that he wasn't a virgin when he married Meredith.

And I'm really curious if Mere and her family knew/know. And what they think. Maybe Mere secretly was glad he had experience. Unlike most courting couples, they seemed to actually have privacy.

[clibbyjo]

I think Mere is naive ,but I think she is happy with her choice. Even though Mere is not college educated, she is pretty smart in her own right. She had the cheesecake business,did the farm business(didn't she do book keeping for Daddy and work like a dog when needed?),did most of her mothers job of home schooling and cooking for the kids and still made all that stuff by hand for the wedding. I would say in her world she wanted a man to show up the other fundie girls who were marrying the farm boys, but she snagged the prize in her book. SHE went to Oxford and is a bit of an elitist herself. Steve likes to feel smart and she likes to show him he is the man.

[Bella99]

I'm just speculating here, but I think once their family gets to be a certain size they'll quit having more if Steve really wants to run for office. 4-5 kids? Maybe you enjoy having a big family. 6+ kids? It might ping a voter's radar. It would sure ping mine, especially if it was a Republican candidate. /idle speculation

[NeedDistractions]

And I've met plenty of accomplished and smart individuals. I dated a few guys who were national merit scholars, I've been roommates or friends with people who had near or perfect SAT, ACT, SAT II, MCAT scores. I've known people who are accomplished researchers before they finished their teenage years. None of these people thought to actively search out and find a partner who would worship them or cater to their needs.

Being elitist doesn't mean pissing on those deemed by society as "intellectual inferior". These people certainly didn't act insecure enough to seek out someone they knew would never be a threat to their accomplishments. If someone like that tried to date me, I'd see it as a major red flag.

I'm not saying it's a given that an intelligent and accomplished individual should feel superior to anyone... ever. I certainly think this is and always has been Steve's biggest character flaw. And yes, I agree, it's definitely worrisome that he sought out someone submissive. Again, part of his biggest flaw. I can't tell what the future holds and I can't speak to whether or not other personality characteristics have been drastically altered along with his conversion, but I knew Steve for a really long time. We still share a very close mutual friend and even outside of high school and whatnot, I have a few mutual friends (acquaintances perhaps?) from other aspects of his life. I really just can't see him changing that much. In the end, I don't think (or rather, I deeply deeply hope) that his personal upbringing would never allow such an extreme extent of this little "superiority complex." I don't understand this fundamental Christian world nearly as well as many of you so maybe now I'm the one being naive, but... I just can't wrap my mind around Steve so wholly and completely dominating and controlling someone else's life. Sigh. I don't know what to think.

[NeedDistractions]

Aw, Steve before his big religious conversions sounds like a person I would have liked. Yes, he sounds like a douchebag, but he sounds douchy in a way that I kind of find endearing.

You probably would have! I liked him. Yeah, he was douchey but he was a quick-witted and intelligent douche. He pissed me off more times than I could possibly count during the years I knew him, but I still always respected him and enjoyed his company. This is all before he went crazy Christian, of course.

[Soulhuntress]

NeedDistractions: One bit of good news: He is PCUSA. The ones who are egalitarian and rather liberal (o hai lion king at their general assembly). Steve is not as psycho as the In-laws based on that one important distinction. Her daddy is batshit crazy and fundie and Steven is not. Hope that helps!

[pomology]

NeedDistractions: One bit of good news: He is PCUSA. The ones who are egalitarian and rather liberal (o hai lion king at their general assembly). Steve is not as psycho as the In-laws based on that one important distinction. Her daddy is batshit crazy and fundie and Steven is not. Hope that helps!

Yeah. I guess I'm giving information that I maybe don't necessarily want to give online, but whatever. I'm from Princeton and I know people who attend the church that Steve attended there. They are liberal and would never stand for patriarchal bullshit or fundie-ism. So Steve's religious conversion happened at a liberal church. But I still don't see why somebody like that would go for somebody like Meredith and how he would be able to stand such a conservative family.

[Soulhuntress]

Yeah. I guess I'm giving information that I maybe don't necessarily want to give online, but whatever. I'm from Princeton and I know people who attend the church that Steve attended there. They are liberal and would never stand for patriarchal bullshit or fundie-ism. So Steve's religious conversion happened at a liberal church. But I still don't see why somebody like that would go for somebody like Meredith and how he would be able to stand such a conservative family.

Well, wacko families are part of american legend and lore and make for fun stories for years to come. I am thinking of ladies I know who are elders and what they would say to a boy at their church who made his choices. Somehow that gives me hope (heck I know complementarian ladies that would help out gladly). :D

[demgirl]

I am honestly starting to wonder. Based on the description given to us by the lovely NeedsDistractions, I'm starting to think Steven is the type of guy that got to college, figured out that he wanted to be a Senator, and sought out a lifestyle that would best help his chances of becoming one. Ivy League education -- check. Joined the armed forces -- check. Conversion to conservative Christianity -- check. Wife with absolutely no "illicit" past -- check.

I could be nuts, but I'm starting to wonder if he's the type to say one thing to move along the life plan, but should circumstances require it, would entirely backpedal. I question if he's as conservative and fundamentalist as has been speculated. Sure, there was a honeymoon baby, but from the description we have, it seems more like he has ambitions that have little to do with religion.

NeedsDistraction, thanks for giving us the scoop! Seriously, if you really ever need a distraction, check out the other threads. It's like going down the fundamentalist rabbit hole. It's easy to get sucked in... trust someone who knows.