Armed Protesters take over Oregon Federal Wildlife Refuge Part 2

[AmazonGrace]

OT: This man killed his daughter and thinks he should get away with it because he's a sovereign shitizen

 

http://www.post-gazette.com/local/east/2016/09/30/Trial-continues-for-man-accused-of-killing-infant-daughter/stories/201609300188

[Howl]

2 hours ago, seattlechic said:

I heard he cried like a little boy on the stand? Is that true? Please say it is!!!

Apparently he did.  I think he knows he's completely f**k'd, and in the process, has damaged his livelihood, his wife, and his kids.  

But, no matter what the result of this trial, or even if he'd never gone to Oregon, he's still facing charges in Nevada for the Bundy Ranch standoff, along with his father and three (?) of his brothers. 

There won't be a happy ending.

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

@Howl --The last I heard, the fire inspectors have said that the fire at the Challis BLM office didn't include an accelerant, so they don't  believe it's arson. The didn't find anything to show why it did start, but without an accelerant, it's unlikely to be a case of arson. Link here.

Quote

The cause of Tuesday morning's fire was ruled undetermined, but the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives announced Wednesday that investigators found no accelerant or other evidence of a criminal act.

I didn't realize ATF did fire scene investigations. 

[Howl]

@WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?, I've been hoping very much that is WASN'T arson.  If it was arson, it likely means that the SovCit movement is becoming more overtly violent, a very scary scenario.  Lack of an accelerant wouldn't completely rule out arson, would it?  My big question is:  why did this Federal office not have a functioning sprinkler system or some other type of fire suppression system?  Wouldn't that be part of the building code over the last 20 or 30 years?

8 hours ago, WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? said:

the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

https://www.atf.gov/arson

Quote

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) is the Federal agency primarily responsible for administering and enforcing the criminal and regulatory provisions of the Federal laws pertaining to destructive devices (bombs), explosives, and arson. Over nearly 40 years, ATF has developed scientifically proven investigative capabilities, expertise, and resources they have positioned ATF as the Nation’s primary source for explosives and fire investigative knowledge and assistance.

 

Edited October 6, 2016 by Howl

[AmazonGrace]

https://twitter.com/hecktow/status/784039270394699779/photo/1?utm_source=fb&utm_medium=fb&utm_campaign=hecktow&utm_content=784039270394699779

[seattlechic]

13 minutes ago, AmazonGrace said:

https://twitter.com/hecktow/status/784039270394699779/photo/1?utm_source=fb&utm_medium=fb&utm_campaign=hecktow&utm_content=784039270394699779

OMG I needed a chuckle. HAHAHAHAH that pretty much sums it up. 

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

Oops!  I linked to the wrong article in my earlier post and didn't realize until it was too late to edit. This is the correct article about the fire in Challis. 

@Howl--I agree with you that an arsonist could set a fire without using an accelerant, but maybe it seldom happens that way? I also hope that the Sov Cit movement doesn't start doing things like setting fires. (And thanks for teaching me something new!)

[CTRLZero]

Severely paraphrasing from the Seattle Times regarding Ammon Bundy's testimony on Thursday:

Ammon:  I wasn't the leader.

US Attorney:  Uh, you earlier testified you were the leader.

Ammon:  The definition of leader is not what you think it means.

US Attorney:  About that $530K federal small business loan...

Ammon:  I do support the federal government (when it comes to my taking its money).

Another attorney:  How was a federal employee supposed to work when you were in his/her chair?

Ammon:  Uh...

Ammon:  It was all spur of the moment (mob rule).  I even had to use GPS to find the damn place.

US Attorney:  But...you intended to remain there until 2036.  Hmmm...

Ammon:  I can't remember things talked about 11 months ago, sheesh.

US Attorney:  We recorded it.  We watched it two days ago.

Ammon:  Bits and pieces.  (I'm guessing Ammon thinks it's a conspiracy within the conspiracy.)

Me:  Nothing unexpected here, but interesting to watch how the defendants distance themselves from the event.

 

[Howl]

@CTRLZero, you nailed it!  Ammon rambled on for a few days for the defense; the prosecution wrapped up Ammon, tied with a bow, in 20 minutes.  My fave -- Prosecution to Bundy: You did not believe refuge was federally owned, but you tried to adversely possess it?  Heh.

Jeanette Finicum testified in a straightforward way. 

Ammon is now being questioned by Ryan - "How long have we known each other?"  and Shawna Cox - When you saw me at the rally is that when you invited me to "The Malheur"? Ammon:  Yes

 

Edited October 7, 2016 by Howl

[Howl]

Tomorrow's NPR Morning Edition (Wed, Oct. 12) will be visiting Burns, OR to talk with residents about the aftermath of the Malheur occupation.

[Howl]

Looks like closing arguments may begin on Monday.  David Fry on the stand tomorrow.  As of now, Ryan will not testify.  

[Howl]

From OregonLive, excellent summary of Shawna Cox's Thursday testimony and other important stuff  and what's coming up today (Friday) here.   

 

 

[AmazonGrace]

David Fry testified

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/10/oregon_standoff_holdout_david.html
 

Quote

 

If he had checked his text messages sooner, David Fry would have left the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge and joined occupation spokesman Robert "LaVoy" Finicum on a trip to a community meeting that ended when Finicum was fatally shot during a police stop.

Fry, the fifth defendant to take the witness stand in the federal conspiracy trial of seven refuge occupiers, spoke calmly and clearly Friday, a marked contrast to his highly publicized rants in the hours before his tense surrender to FBI agents on Feb. 11. He even chuckled a few times, including when he described when he videotaped ground squirrels at the refuge that looked different than the tree-climbing ones he'd seen in his home state of Ohio.

 

The drugs are working, perhaps?
 

Quote

 

Fry said he was more comfortable with his recent diagnosis by a forensic psychologist that he suffered from schizotypal personality disorder.

"I don't want to consider it a mental illness,'' he said. "I sometimes like to believe what I hear is an angel. ... I don't want to think of it as a disease.''

 

Not sure what this is about but hey

 

[Howl]

The Ryan thing is a hoot.  More SovCit! The Pope! Latin phrases (we think)! 

It's interesting that FBI had at least 15 people at the refuge supplying information over the course of the occupation.  Two of them have been identified. Ammon's attorney wants the rest of those names, badly.  Judge Brown will decide today on whether the names will be made public.  I'm sure the remaining 13 would like to live out their remaining days in total, complete anonymity.  Deliciously, if the names are not released, the SovCit FB and twitter twits will start a circular firing squad trying to figure out who is pure and who was the mole.   Truly a popcorn moment.  If the names are released, SovCit doxxing will likely begin immediately, a very scary thought. 

From OregonLive, Oct. 14: 

Quote

The FBI had 15 confidential sources feeding them information from their contacts with occupiers at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, a prosecutor confirmed in court Friday.

Ammon Bundy's lawyer Marcus Mumford is urging the court to compel prosecutors to identify their informants before the defense rests its case in the federal conspiracy trial against his client and six co-defendants.

"We're being prosecuted based on the collective actions of others,'' Mumford argued.

Defense lawyers, he said, don't know what these confidential sources "did or how they contributed'' to the alleged conspiracy during the 41-day armed takeover of the federal bird sanctuary in eastern Oregon.

Somehow hoping that some good ultimately will come from this for David Fry. He sounds lucid and self aware; I'm assuming he's receiving appropriate medication.  

ETA: I wish Ryan Bundy was self aware and receiving appropriate medication. I'm assuming the jury is never made aware of Ryan's silly filings, since they are not germane to the case.

 

Edited October 17, 2016 by Howl

[47of74]

1 hour ago, Howl said:

The Ryan thing is a hoot.  More SovCit! The Pope! Latin phrases (we think)!

Yeah, I read them too this morning.

https://www.scribd.com/document/327767228/10-13-2016-ECF-1438-USA-v-RYAN-BUNDY-Notice-Titled-Writ-Prohibitio

https://www.scribd.com/document/327767233/10-13-2016-ECF-1438-1-USA-v-RYAN-BUNDY-Attachment-to-Notice-Titled-Writ-Prohibitio

And by the time I was finished I issued forth my first "What.  The.  Fuck?"  of this week.

Edit: Here's the original Vatican document.

vatican.va/content/francesco/en/motu_proprio/documents/papa-francesco-motu-proprio_20130711_organi-giudiziari.html

 

Edited October 17, 2016 by 47of74

[Howl]

According to  Maxine Bernstein tweets:

On jury verdict forms, Mumford [Ammon's attorney] adds,'Mr. Bundy would like to request a verdict form that only says 'not guilty.'

Judge Anna Brown responds:'I'd like to be tall, thin & blonde. Now go..' and ushers defendants out for a break

 

 

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

@Howl--That reminds me of when my kids say, "I want..." whatever their latest request is and I reply, "Yeah. And I want a million dollars. I don't think either of us is getting what we want right now."  (And then my dh usually breaks in to a chorus of "If I Had a Million Dollars" by The Barenaked Ladies.) Some of these guys have less of a grasp on how things work than my kindergartener and my 2nd grader.

[AmazonGrace]

The defense rested and there's just the wrapping up left

http://koin.com/2016/10/17/malheur-refuge-trial-defense-may-rest-10172016/

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/10/defense_rests_with_witness_con.html

[Howl]

Well, this is going to wrap up soon, and the election will be over in not so very many weeks.   I better get ready to get a damn life!  Because I didn't occupy a wildlife refuge, my life will not involve hanging out in a prison cell, so I can check off that off the list of possibilities. 

Edited October 18, 2016 by Howl

[AmazonGrace]

Maybe you can adversely occupy a prison cell if you want one

[Howl]

The fate of the defendants is in the hands of the jury.   Tick tock tick tock. 

[47of74]

On 10/18/2016 at 5:43 PM, AmazonGrace said:

Maybe you can adversely occupy a prison cell if you want one

And put it on pay per view too for our viewing pleasure.  Oh wait, on second thought, we might not want to see all of it though....

[Howl]

Holy schmoly, you would think all was quiet waiting while the jury deliberates, but no.   One juror thinks that another juror has bias.  Also, the jury has queried the judge about being able to agree about gun charges for some defendants but not for others.  The judge has said that this will not result in a hung jury. 

The judge will have a decision tomorrow about potential juror bias.  The lawyers huddled today.  The judge asked the juror if he could be impartial -- plus, this is a person the defense accepted during voir dire, even though he stated he had worked for the BLM 20 years earlier. 

Tick tock tick tock...

It's all here on OregonLive  http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/10/one_juror_questions_impartiali.html

 

[Howl]

HOLY CRAP!  Juror #11 has been dismissed for bias and alternate Juror #18 is on the way!  Deliberations will begin anew tomorrow (Thursday).  "Anew" as in start-from-scratch. 

Originally, the alternate jurors had requested that they be allowed to sit in on jury deliberations because they felt totally invested in the case.  However, only the regular jurors are allowed in the jury room, so Judge Brown could not honor their request. 

[DaisyD]

Good. Don't give the crazies any excuses to call foul. They will anyway, but it's best not to feed them. This whole thing feels a lot like the election. Sanity battling lunacy and here's me hoping that random people recognize which is which.