Armed Protesters take over Oregon Federal Wildlife Refuge Part 2

[Howl]

On 10/18/2016 at 5:43 PM, AmazonGrace said:

Maybe you can adversely occupy a prison cell if you want one

If Agent Orange is elected, this may be a viable option. 

13 hours ago, daisyd681 said:

Good. Don't give the crazies any excuses to call foul. They will anyway, but it's best not to feed them. This whole thing feels a lot like the election. Sanity battling lunacy and here's me hoping that random people recognize which is which.

You called it, girl!  This election feels like a litmust test of our national sanity and basic human decency.  

Anyway, back to juror #11, who was dismissed for possible bias.  This juror identified himself as a past BLM employee during voir dire and both the defense and prosecution approved him.  He told the judge he felt he could be an unbiased juror, but apparently, prefaced at least one remark in the jury room with, I'm very biased....At this point, it's not known if he was biased towards or against the defense! 

 

[CTRLZero]

9 hours ago, Howl said:

This juror identified himself as a past BLM employee during voir dire and both the defense and prosecution approved him.  He told the judge he felt he could be an unbiased juror, but apparently, prefaced at least one remark in the jury room with, I'm very biased...

I don't know why judges allow this.  Veering slightly off topic, but a few years ago my husband was called to federal jury duty and brought to the court's attention that he had, in fact, worked with the parties involved!   So, while he would have a clear understanding of the issues, he also might have some bias on the side of his peer group.   He was approved and sat on the jury.  It turns out my husband felt he was able to be fair during the deliberation process, but it could so easily have gone otherwise depending on the facts of the case.   This sort of thing must not be uncommon. 

[mamallama]

So they were aquitted.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/28/us/bundy-brothers-acquitted-in-takeover-of-oregon-wildlife-refuge.html?smprod=nytcore-iphone&smid=nytcore-iphone-share&_r=0

 

Sorry I can't seem to quote from the article.

[Cleopatra7]

10 minutes ago, mamallama said:

So they were aquitted.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/28/us/bundy-brothers-acquitted-in-takeover-of-oregon-wildlife-refuge.html?smprod=nytcore-iphone&smid=nytcore-iphone-share&_r=0

 

Sorry I can't seem to quote from the article.

So in the US, if a black man doesn't get his ID out fast enough at a traffic stop, it's okay for the police to use deadly force, but when a bunch of white men decide to take over federal land, it's totally okay. Who wants to bet these losers are going to be emboldened by this decision and plan something bigger?

[Howl]

Well, didn't see this coming.  WTF?  So a new juror is brought on this morning, they are supposed to begin deliberating from scratch and now they have a verdict acquitting Ryan and Ammon. 

1 minute ago, Cleopatra7 said:

Who wants to bet these losers are going to be emboldened by this decision and plan something bigger?

Well, they're not home free.  They face another jury in Nevada for the standoff at the Bundy Ranch.   I don't know if they go directly to Nevada or if they'll be released pending that trial. 

[CTRLZero]

Wow.  Sad to say, I see a lot more of this type of activity in our future.  Did the jury feel intimidated and acquit by reason of self-preservation?   I guess we will see if things go differently in Nevada, but doubtful.   Don't understand the jury's thinking, but hope it will be shared at some point.

 

[QuiverFullOfTacos]

I am actually surprised by this verdict. I hope the jury will talk at some point.

[47of74]

This makes me fucking sick.  These guys got away with terrorism.

[Howl]

Well, this case has more turns than a barrel full of snakes.  After the verdict was read, Mumford kept arguing with Judge Anna Brown over the terms of the release of Ammon Bundy and the exchanged became so heated that Mumford  ended up being tackled by 5 federal marshals and possibly tased and is now in Federal custody.  No, I'm not making this up. 

[47of74]

1 hour ago, Howl said:

Well, this case has more turns than a barrel full of snakes.  After the verdict was read, Mumford kept arguing with Judge Anna Brown over the terms of the release of Ammon Bundy and the exchanged became so heated that Mumford  ended up being tackled by 5 federal marshals and possibly tased and is now in Federal custody.  No, I'm not making this up. 

I just thought of something from Attack of the Clones. 

Yeah that's probably what will happen in this country, that after how many trials in our courts of law Cloven Hoof Bundy and his asswipe sons will still be wandering around free.

[AmazonGrace]

Ooh lovely. Good luck for all the federal workers in the future.

[Childless]

I'm so mad I don't have words.  If these idiots were black, they probably wouldn't have lived long enough to get to a trial let alone be acquitted.  And white men have the gall to bitch and whine that they have it so bad and insist there isn't white privilege in this country.  

[Howl]

I'm still gobsmacked over this verdict.  I hope juror #11 decides to spill the beans so we can figure what the heck was going on in there. 

 

 

 

[sawasdee]

I just do not understand this verdict. it is indisputable - shown live on TV! - that they illegally occupied Federal premises. There is abundant evidence of criminal damage. And that is without looking at more esoteric offences against Federal law.

I just don't get it.

[Howl]

32 minutes ago, sawasdee said:

I just do not understand this verdict. it is indisputable - shown live on TV! - that they illegally occupied Federal premises. There is abundant evidence of criminal damage. And that is without looking at more esoteric offences against Federal law.

I just don't get it.

Me neither.  I'm totally, utterly gobsmacked.  W.     T.     F.  

I'm wondering if the prosecution defined "conspiracy" so narrowly that the jury felt like they couldn't convict.   Still hoping Juror #11 will come forth and let us know why he got kicked out

[doggie]

Here was a protest in the middle of Portland with an American flag saddle blanket no less. But across the street was. Wedding that's portland.

[DaisyD]

Well, it looks like that litmus test came back...

[OnceUponATime]

5 hours ago, Howl said:

I'm wondering if the prosecution defined "conspiracy" so narrowly that the jury felt like they couldn't convict.   Still hoping Juror #11 will come forth and let us know why he got kicked out

to the first part it seems like they didn't see 'intent', http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/10/juror_4_prosecutors_in_oregon.html#incart_maj-story-1

About Juror #11 http://www.myeasternoregon.com/2016/10/28/baker-city-exclusive-conversation-with-juror-dismissed-from-trial/

[Howl]

So my wish has been granted.  The juror that was dismissed has spoken out.  What the ever loving f**k.  He was the lone hold out for a guilty verdict.  

BAKER CITY: Exclusive conversation with dismissed Bundy juror

Quote

Nickens says that it was last Thursday morning, October 20, when the jurors were sitting in deliberation and looking at all the evidence that had been presented when he made the conscious decision to find out what the other jurors were thinking in the way of a verdict.  “I wanted to see what everybody else had to say; maybe they could tell me something I missed.  Something said, something shown to us on a video.”

It was during that discussion that Nickens says it became clear that each of the jurors had made their decision on how they were voting based on how they perceived the evidence that had been presented. And it was then that it became clear that swaying his decision or any of the other juror’s decisions to the other side was not going to happen.

It was several days later, just earlier this week according to Nickens, that he noticed juror 4 writing something on a piece of paper, tear it out and hand it to the court attendant along with another question that had came from the jurors.  “It was about an hour later that I was called into the judge’s chambers with the defense attorney’s” says Nickens.  That is when he was asked about his BLM background.  Which Nickens notes was all disclosed during the initial paperwork and question and answer process.  According to Nickens he confirmed the information regarding his background with the BLM and when asked again, based on that background, if he could be an unbiased juror.  Nickens says his reply was simple “I told her yes, of course I can.  I told you I could then and I still can now.”

 

Edited October 28, 2016 by Howl

[nokidsmom]

I am surprised however as someone who has sat on several juries, I would be curious to hear what the jury had to work with, meaning what was given to them as the law by the judge for deliberation.   That can make a big difference.  

[Howl]

I've only sat on one long jury, but we were all in agreement.  It was a civil suit (medical malpractice/nursing home) and we all agreed pretty quickly that the physician was not at fault. 

I want to say that Juror #4 is a smug and unctuous dick, but your point is well taken.  There were many discussions between Judge Brown and the lawyers that were not heard by the jury.  However, it seems as though they clearly understood the case being brought by the government, but disagreed with HOW it was presented....or something. 

[Howl]

And what about all the yahoos who took plea deals.  Guess they are feeling pretty silly now.  Also, wonder if the cases against the people who were to be tried in January of February will be dropped?

[Howl]

More details from Juror #11 and what transpired in the jury room from his point of view, posted on OregonLive.  If I were him, I'd be pissed off as well.  

When released from jury duty, he was free to go on line and saw a photo of  the note that Juror #4 sent to the judge.  

Quote

"It was more of a 'WTF' kind of moment. That was completely out of context,'' Nickens said. "I was livid. I still consider it a personal attack with underlying ulterior motives.''

Baker City man bounced from Oregon standoff jury calls fellow juror's note 'a personal attack'     Full text here. 

 

 

 

 

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

Juror #11 did a good job explaining his side of things. I agree with you, @Howl; I'd be pissed if I were him, too.

I hadn't realized that they had jurors from so far away. Baker City is on the opposite side of the state from Portland. I wonder how many places in Oregon the jury calls home?

[Howl]

Juror #11 is one of those people -- you just want to start a GoFundMe for him ASAP.

I'm still gobsmacked that after staying the course and keeping everything under control and performing brilliantly as a judge for this 3-ring circus, Judge Anna Brown got played.