Armed Protesters take over Oregon Federal Wildlife Refuge Part 2

[Howl]

Sadly, I've seen many highway memorials here in central and south Texas that are a simple small white cross, often decorated with flowers and momentos left by grieving family. Many of these are permanent, or at least they've been there a long time.  Something like that would likely be left alone. 

The crazy fanaticism is still strong with so many of these people.  There is no good way to deal with it, because they are fanatics.  I suspect whatever is erected will be dismantled at some point, likely by locals who do not see Finicum as a martyr for the cause, but as someone who created chaos in their daily lives. 

[myhobby]

 http://www.bendbulletin.com/localstate/4457606-151/forest-service-supporters-of-refuge-occupation-at-odds

I have been on the peripheral of the Malheur Refuge takeover.  Things are definitely not back to normal, and I'm worried what will happen once the trials start in the fall.  Perhaps before then, depending on the fire season in Grant County.  Everybody's favorite Sheriff does not like anyone federal in his county.  I think there would have been a very different outcome if Lavoy and his buddies had managed to cross the county line.

[Howl]

From the article linked by @myhobby above:

Quote

Both Fisher and Landin say they are unarmed, and they say they intend to remain peaceful. By law, they are not allowed to carry guns because both men are convicted felons.

So many of the people attracted to the Malheur occupation and its aftermath are losers to some degree or another:   domestic violence arrests, issues with authority, thieves, felons of various stripes.  It gives them a cause to believe in and a force to fight against (feds) and likely provides some type of positive feedback from other Sovereign Citizens and others of that ilk. 

It just makes them a PITA to the rest of the world.  

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

@nana sew dear--Do you know if it's any one particular militia group protecting the Finicum memorial, or is it just different people cycling in and out? I'm just curious. 

ETA--I read the article @myhobby linked to. It only mentions the 2 men.

Edited July 12, 2016 by WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?
Clarity and ETA

[SpoonfulOSugar]

I cannot find a reputable source, but some sov cit watchers are expressing concern about this situation:

http://www.alternet.org/activism/anti-governent-groups-show-interest-montana-pond-building-case

I understand some of the Oregon players (like Jeannette Finicum) have visited the man referenced.

These people are horribly unpredictable.

[myhobby]

We're BLM around here, not FS, so I haven't heard anything about the situation in MT.  (Also no longer in MT). Needless to say, whenever something happens involving government insurgents things can get a little tense in any government office.

Regarding the Malheur, the last protest here for Lavoy and those in jail was considerably smaller.  It also seemed to be mostly locals, which is a good sign.  The 'lone wolves' who aren't affiliated with any of the groups are the most concerning and unpredictable.  The animosity between government and ranchers is still worse than usual, the manager at the Refuge expects to lose about a third of his staff.  The BLM district manager for that area has also left.  We have always chosen to live out and away to avoid these conflicts, but lots of people don't or can't for various reasons.  

[Howl]

Thanks for the update, @myhobby.  And @SpoonfulOSugar, I am really liking AlterNet.   

When Operation Jade Helm was announced in Bastrop, Texas last year,  government conspiracy paranoiacs crawled out of the woodwork like roaches under a Raid attack.   Martial Law would be established so Obama could suspend elections and stay in office indefinitely!  Black Ops, false flags, psy ops!  They're coming for our GUNS! 

You can did your toes into paranoiac waters here: http://www.thecommonsenseshow.com/2015/11/12/jade-helm-16-secretly-placed-bastrop-county-texas-under-martial-law/

Here's what RightWingWatch had to say:

Quote

For most of the summer, a military training exercise called Jade Helm 15 captivated the imaginations of the Right, striking fear into the hearts of Republican presidential candidates, members of Congress and even governors. Latching on to a conspiracy theory that originated in the far-right fringes of the internet, they warned that the training exercise was in fact part of a plot by President Obama to invade Texas, impose martial law and abolish civil liberties.

At one point, one-third of Republican voters and half of all Tea Party supporters feared that the federal government was “trying to take over Texas,” with another 28 percent of GOP voters saying that they were not sure whether or not the plot existed.

Outlets such as WorldNetDaily and InfoWars, far-right sites that also regularly host Republican politicians, led the way in spreading the conspiracy theories. But the theories soon spread beyond the far-right, and suddenly people had to debate whether the government would use secret tunnels, closed Walmart stores and cattle cars as part of an increasingly fantastical plot to eviscerate American freedom.

I find the percentages bolded above absolutely horrifying.  That indicates how easy it is to lure a large number of our fellow citizens into believing our country might be headed for martial law.  

Now the froth concerns UWEX 16 (Jade Helm II), which should be wrapping up in in late summer (I think).  UWEX stands for Unconventioal Warfare Exercise.  Here's a sample from Clash Daily with Douglas Giles:

Quote

Many of the same blogs that sounded the first alarms of the truth behind Jade Helm were quick to assert that UWEX 16 was another step in a far-reaching conspiracy to imprison American people in their own communities.   Personally, I am in agreement with that thinking because all indications are that the Muslim-in-chief would like nothing better than to have the United States turn into a caliphate, under Sharia, and his sitting on the throne with the title of Caliph.

All of this is tied into militia movements, Sov Cits, and whatever else if floating on the dark paranoid fringes of human consciousness.   Those who are maladjusted, dancing on the margins of mental illness, those who can't find their place in society, the paranoid, those who are simply ignorant or any combination of these are so vulnerable to all the crazy stuff being blogged and flogged on the far right media and radio.  I'd feel much better if these people weren't armed. 

Sorry for the long digression.  Hoping the Montana situation does not blow up.  Feds would be wise to follow the patient approach they used with Cliven Bundy.   Step back, arrest the guy at some point in the future and go clean up his mess while he's detained.    

Edited July 13, 2016 by Howl

[SpoonfulOSugar]

Medenbach was released with conditions; David Fry is staying put.

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/07/oregon_standoff_federal_judge.html

[Howl]

Took some time to visit the Bundy Court Sketches facebook page last night.  Pure gold.  David Fry is a mess -- there are definitely mental health issues at play. Reading 'tween the lines, the judge thinks he's too unstable to be released, but not crazy enough to be committed to a mental hospital.  Sadly, jail is probably the safest and best environment for him right now. 

 

[47of74]

And in the latest twist, so to speak, Ryan Bundy tried the old tie bed sheets into a rope trick;

opb.org/news/series/burns-oregon-standoff-bundy-militia-news-updates/malheur-ryan-bundy-alleged-jail-escape-foiled/

Quote

Federal prosecutors said Monday that Ryan Bundy tore his bed sheets and braided them together into 12–15 feet of rope in an attempt to escape Multnomah County Jail.    

“We have actual evidence that he tried to escape,” Assistant U.S. Prosecutor Geoffrey Barrow told the court during a pre-trial detention hearing in Portland.

Barrow said jail staff found the braided rope under Bundy’s mattress when they searched his cell on April 8. Barrow also said Bundy had stored containers of extra food along with six pillowcases, a chair, two extra pairs of boxers and more torn sheets.

Barrow told Judge Robert Jones that at the time Bundy told the bailiffs that he was “‘a rancher, trying to practice braiding rope.’”

And then instead of admitting that he had been caught he tried to tell the jailers that he had the extra stuff for comfort.

[AmazonGrace]

Ryan was just trying to reconstruct the occupation. Unfortunately he was interrupted before he could fashion a ditch to poop  in and acquire gummy dicks.

[Howl]

This is such an amazing awesome find.  Wonder who was waiting on the outside to drive him away?  Or maybe he was going to put the extra food (snacks!) and two pairs of boxer shorts in a pillow case and just  disappear into the big city.  

I guess the chair is to get up to the window, but how the hell do you hide a chair under your bunk?   Maybe it's a folding chair, but still. 

Edited July 19, 2016 by Howl

[47of74]

14 hours ago, Howl said:

This is such an amazing awesome find.  Wonder who was waiting on the outside to drive him away?  Or maybe he was going to put the extra food (snacks!) and two pairs of boxer shorts in a pillow case and just  disappear into the big city.  

I guess the chair is to get up to the window, but how the hell do you hide a chair under your bunk?   Maybe it's a folding chair, but still. 

Complete with tying the pillow case around a stick that he would sling over his shoulder as he walked back toward his ranch.

And now the Bundy crew is going to remain at the Graybar Hotel;

oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2016/07/federal_judge_declines_to_rele.html

Quote

U.S. District Judge Robert E. Jones ruled Tuesday that Ammon Bundy and brother Ryan Bundy must remain in custody pending trial, saying he was concerned they might fail to return to court or recruit others to stage another unlawful standoff if released.

In a three-page ruling, the judge found there were no conditions that he could impose to "reasonably assure their appearance in court or the safety of the community'' if he were to release them before trial.

"I reject his excuse that he was practicing braiding.'' Federal Judge Robert E. Jones, on Ryan Bundy's aborted jail escape

Jones found Ryan Bundy posed some risk of flight if he were to be released.

Ya think?

[DaisyD]

Now if only we could have gotten this judge for Lyle Jeffs, he'd still be in prison right now instead of whatever country his land is in.

[47of74]

7 hours ago, daisyd681 said:

Now if only we could have gotten this judge for Lyle Jeffs, he'd still be in prison right now instead of whatever country his land is in.

Yeah if only we could've gotten that judge for any number of cases, including the Standford rapist or that affluenza teen in Texas they'd probably both be doing hard time right now.

[47of74]

Ryan Bundy again, digging that hole deeper.

rawstory.com/2016/07/i-am-an-idiot-ryan-bundy-demands-100-million-to-stand-trial-or-1-million-to-serve-as-own-judge/

Quote

Ryan Bundy, who led the armed Oregon occupation with his brother, asked the federal government to pay him at least $1 million to stand trial.

The 44-year-old Bundy, who is serving as his own attorney, filed court documents this week using “sovereign citizen” jargon to the government had no authority over him and said he would not accept the role of defendant unless he was handsomely rewarded, reported Oregon Public Broadcasting.

“I, ryan c, man, am an idiot of the ‘Legal Society’; and; am an idiot (layman, outsider) of the ‘Bar Association’; and; i am incompetent; and; am not required by any law to be competent,” Bundy wrote in the motion.

Bundy, who authorities say plotted an escape attempt earlier this month from the Multnomah County Detention Center, accused U.S. District Court Judge Anna Brown of perjury and demanded up to $100 million to serve as a defendant in the Malheur National Wildlife Reserve case.

And yeah, Mr. Bundy, you are an idiot.  A fucking one at that too.

[SpoonfulOSugar]

Wowzers.

Prosecutors have begun laying out their case in a trial brief submitted late yesterday:

Quote

Ammon Bundy and his supporters transformed the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge into a flophouse, broke into safes, removed hundreds of pages of federal records and left behind weapons, ammunition, explosives and hundreds of pounds of trash in an occupation that cost the U.S. Department of Interior more than $6 million, federal prosecutors say.

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/07/prosecutors_oregon_standoff_de.html#incart_big-photo

Quote

Prosecutors will submit as evidence the dozens of guns, more than 20,000 rounds of ammunition and 1,000 spent shell casings recovered from the refuge, videos of defendants speaking from the refuge, their social media postings and Facebook account messages.

The government's itemized list of 674 trial exhibits includes:

Ammon Bundy's notes of individuals' responsibilities at the refuge, documents from the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service found on Shawna Cox's thumb drive, multiple text messages between Ammon Bundy and Pete Santilli, videos of defendants' meetings in the refuge bunkhouse, aerial surveillance of the refuge, a Facebook video of defendant Jason Blomgren firing weapons, a U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service sign that read "Area closed beyond this sign to reduce wildlife disturbance" damaged with "numerous apparent bullet holes,'' a video of defendant Sean Anderson firing at an airplane at the refuge, a federal firearms trace report of Ammon Bundy's Winchester 300 rifle and a transcript of Ammon Bundy's testimony on the witness stand during a detention hearing earlier this month.

 

[AmazonGrace]

One thing Ryan Bundy got right in this bunch of documents: 

he is an idiot. 

http://koin.com/2016/07/28/ryan-bundy-wants-1m-to-be-defendant-or-judge/?cid=twitter_KOINNews

 

love this pic...

 

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/07/oregon_standoff_9_guilty_pleas.html

 

Ammon Bundy and Ryan Bundy this week were denied pretrial release after a three-hour hearing, in which Ammon Bundy's lawyer made the head-spinning decision to put him on the witness stand.

Under cross examination by Assistant U.S. Attorney Ethan Knight, Ammon Bundy admitted he stayed at the refuge, that he and others changed the signs and obtained a postal address to receive mail there, that he knew federal employees worked there but were not present when he and supporters arrived, and that the actions taken at the refuge resulted from "more of a combined effort."

His statements, plus his attorney's acknowledgement that the Bundys and others controlled access to and from the refuge and that many were armed, help establish the elements needed for a conviction on the charge of conspiring to impede federal officers at the refuge through intimidation, threats or force.

"It's almost a universally bad idea to have your client making public statements before your trial," Sali said. "I would tell you it's a very unusual move. You're doing something very risky for the slight possibility of winning release with less than two months before trial.''

Wax added, "It is most unusual for that to happen, and it is a risky proposition.''

Why? Because the statements can be used as evidence. A transcript of Tuesday's hearing likely was ordered, and prosecutors undoubtedly will reference it so that they can use Ammon Bundy's own words against him at trial, legal observers sai

http://kutv.com/news/local/tooele-man-charged-by-feds-for-trying-to-blow-up-building-faces-a-judge

 

After hearing the prosecution paint a picture of a very violent man who hated the government and Muslims, and the defense characterizing Keebler as a cancer surviving rabbit rancher who didn't want to hurt anyone Judge David Sam said the nature of the crime was "one of violence" and it was enough to keep Keebler locked up. Sam said based on video and audio evidence the court presented where Keebler talked about plans to blow up buildings proved to be "very substantial and overwhelming in support of detention."

[Howl]

Could these guys implode/self destruct in a more convincing way?  I've mentioned before that they believe they will control the narrative of the trial to discuss their anti-government beliefs and now it seems at least Ryan Bundy believes in the SovCit craziness more and more, which is sadder and sadder.  

Could there be an element of magical thinking here in that Ryan believes SOMETHING can make all this go away and soon he'll be back at home with the wife and kids?  The Bundys were raised in a large family and married and had kids, likely pretty quickly.  There is nothing in their lives that has prepared them for the solitude of a prison cell and likely there is no habit of introspection on any level.  It's also becoming apparent they have no training in critical thinking skills. 

The Bundy Court Sketches guy is solid gold; he's right on target. 

U.S. District Judge David Sam presided over bomber-guy William Keebler's hearing and Judge Sam's bio is interesting.  He converted to Mormonism relatively young, graduated BYU and got his J.D. from Univ. of Utah, served his LDS mission and remains in the church.   He's 83 and probably knows bull shit when he hears it. 

[Howl]

Lots of pretrial stuff going on, but this is particularly interesting (to me): 

From OregonLive, July 30, 2016: 

Quote

The government outlined its case against Ammon Bundy and seven co-defendants in a 33-page trial brief. The eight are set to go to trial Sept. 7 on charges of conspiring to impede federal workers at the refuge through intimidation, threats or force...

...The government also has asked the court to prevent Ammon Bundy, his older brother, Ryan Bundy, and co-defendants from using what's called an "adverse possession'' claim as their defense. Adverse possession is the occupation of land to which another person has title with the intention of possessing it as one's own. The Bundy brothers have argued that it was their intent to stake claim to the refuge through adverse possession.

Generally, property owned by the United States isn't subject to adverse possession, and the defendants had previous knowledge that the federal government has title to the land, Knight wrote. Such a civil claim can't be used as a defense to alleged criminal conduct, prosecutors argued in a related motion.

Full text of article here.

If the adverse possession argument is disallowed, could take a lot of wind out of the Bundy's sails.   Then, moving right along to the 2nd Amendment skeeze: Weren't threatening; we were just peaceful patriots with gunz. 

Time to go shopping for Jiffy-Pop. 

Edited August 1, 2016 by Howl

[47of74]

2 hours ago, Howl said:

Lots of pretrial stuff going on, but this is particularly interesting (to me): 

From OregonLive, July 30, 2016: 

If the adverse possession argument is disallowed, could take a lot of wind out of the Bundy's sails.   Then, moving right along to the 2nd Amendment skeeze: Weren't threatening; we were just peaceful patriots with gunz. 

Time to go shopping for Jiffy-Pop. 

Hell I'd go to Costco and buy a whole damn pallet's worth.  Between that and the campaign that Orange Hitler is running these days popcorn is definitely needed.

Edited August 1, 2016 by 47of74

[Howl]

this bit from the OregonLive article caught my attention as well: 

Quote

The government's itemized list of 674 trial exhibits includes:

...documents from the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service found on Shawna Cox's thumb drive,

She may be in much more trouble than I thought.  

Are you planning any kind of toppings?   Back in the day we would sprinkle nutritional yeast on our popcorn.  So healthy!

Delved much deeper into the Bundy Court Sketches fb page.  Very interesting and much more varied than I had originally thought.  Worth a thorough visit.  

Edited August 1, 2016 by Howl

[AmazonGrace]

19 hours ago, Howl said:

 

She may be in much more trouble than I thought.  

 

If she represents herself with a string of zany documents she is either fucked or gets off entirely for reasons of insanity

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/08/oregon_standoff_defendant_jose.html

Quote

 

O'Shaughnessy pleaded guilty in federal court in Portland to a single count of conspiring to impede federal employees from doing their work at the refuge through intimidation.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Craig Gabriel said a recommended sentence of 12- to 15- months in Oregon is expected to run concurrently with O'Shaughnessy's Nevada sentence.

"Although I did not participate in the occupation, I did support their message and felt a duty to provide security for these individuals,'' O'Shaughnessy told U.S. District Judge Anna J. Brown. "I'm aware it intimidated and prevented federal employees from doing their duties.''

 

I'm a little stupid and I have trouble working out how that differs from participating in the occupation. 

[Howl]

Oooooh, O'Shaughnessy is doing hard time in Nevada.  From the article linked to by @AmazonGrace: 

Quote

O'Shaughnessy, 44, of Cottonwood, Arizona, is expected to face about six years in prison under a negotiated plea deal pending in Nevada.

He's charged with more serious offenses in Nevada, including conspiracy to impede federal officers, assault on federal officers, threatening federal officers, using and carrying a firearm in a crime of violence, obstruction of the administration of justice, interfering with commerce by extortion and interstate travel in aid of extortion.

Hope this puts the quietus on a whole lot of militia bull shit.  It's nice to dress up in camo, parade about with big guns and be all wide-stance-y, manly paramilitary, willing to die for the cause, blah, blah, blah.  The cold reality of prison is a whole different story.  

I'm sure all of these guys thought that, because the feds folded up their tents at the Bundy Ranch standoff, the Feds were cowering in fear and the militia was in control.  They're lookin' kinda pathetic now, especially since they are felons and won't be able to keep guns in the future. 

Edited August 2, 2016 by Howl

[AmazonGrace]

13 hours ago, Howl said:

@AmazonGrace

 They're lookin' kinda pathetic now, especially since they are felons and won't be able to keep guns in the future. 

Hm I don't know about that... hopefully some of them learn their lesson. But it's teh ebil gubmint saying they can't keep guns and the most sovereign of them  wouldn't need to heed it because the illegal courts have no jurisdiction over such free men and idiots. I wouldn't be surprised if some of them are just more careful in stashing their arsenal in the future.