Armed Protesters take over Oregon Federal Wildlife Refuge Part 2

[onekidanddone]

58 minutes ago, DaisyD said:

Of course he did. 

So what happens when the big bad ebil government swoops in and takes steaks land for his big beautiful wall?

[DaisyD]

I really don't think the wall will ever happen. I live in a border state. The campaigns here have centered around securing the border for years. Besides the extreme infeesability of building a wall in some of the terrain (and the fact it would have to cross at least one reservation that has said no fucking way), they don't actually want it built. They just want to get elected on the idea of it. They whip up paranoia about it, but they know it would be a fiasco that would ruin them.

Of course, I also thought that the Cheeto's behavior towards veterans and their families would ruin his election bid...

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

So, both Cliven and Ammon Bundy have made it into the news in the last few days for taking a different stand on immigration than the Cheeto-in-Chief.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/nov/28/cliven-ammon-bundy-criticizes-trump-immigration-border-wall

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/politics/ct-ammon-bundy-immigration-20181128-story.html

I'm afraid I don't know if the Bundys have been pro-Cheeto, but after he pardoned the Hammonds, I might have expected them to be. I guess either they march to the beat of their own drummer, or they are anti-government, no matter who the government is.

[Howl]

I saw this yesterday and found it absolutely fascinating. 

A few thoughts.

• IIRC, yes, Cliven ranches, but he also raises irrigated melons,  a labor intensive crop that would require seasonal laborers. They likely have employed illegal farm workers over the years and have developed empathy by direct exposure.  In addition, the Trump immigration crackdown may have cut off their supply of seasonal workers this year and it has affected them in a direct way.
• They understand the plain meaning of the Bible. 
• Remember, too, that Mormon history is a history of refugees looking for a place of refuge. 
• Related to the above, I just remembered a favorite book, Mormon Country, by Wallace Stegner.  I haven't read this for some time, but I vaguely recall Stegner having a chapter about "The Visitor."   Good things happened to farm families that took in The Visitor and fed him and gave him a bed to sleep on, and not so good things happened to those who turned The Visitor away.  The Mormon imperative? Offer kindness and generosity to strangers in need. 

 

Edited November 30, 2018 by Howl

[onekidanddone]

17 minutes ago, Howl said:

Related to the above, I just remembered a favorite book, Mormon Country, by Wallace Stegner.  I haven't read this for some time, but I vaguely recall Stegner having a chapter about "The Visitor."

Wallace Stegner is one of my all time favorite writers and I even named my cat after him.  Sir Wallace the Wonder Cat Stegner.

I've read Big Rock Candy Mountain and Angle of Repose several times however Mormon Country is one I haven't read, but I'll change that soon.

Edited November 30, 2018 by onekidanddone
typo

[Howl]

  When I lived in SW Colorado, I often went past "The Home of Truth" on the way to Canyonlands NP, but didn't know what it was until I read Stegner's book.  I think the Home of Truth has been converted to a B & B. 

[Howl]

Fascinating.  Ammon Bundy got so much blow-back (not surprising) from militia types over his support of immigrant caravans that he has quit social media (facebook). 

He still thinks the same as he ever did about the government, but he did take the time to research the immigrant caravan and came to the conclusion that they are not criminals and bad people, but people attempting to escape horrible conditions in their home countries. 

Excerpts from Ammon Bundy spoke kindly about the migrant caravans. The backlash has him reevaluating his supporters...

Spoiler

 

.Bundy, one of the figureheads of the anti-government sentiment that crested with the rise of Donald Trump, made waves last week when he criticized the president for demonizing the migrant caravan at the southern border. The statements were striking for a figure so closely identified with the country’s libertarian and anti-government right-wing.  

And on Friday, BuzzFeed News reported that Bundy was “quitting the militia movement” and powering down his social media accounts because of the backlash he received for his rebuke of Trump...

...[He] acknowledged that he was frustrated with some of the elements of the right-wing groups for which he has informally served as leader.

“I never joined a movement,” he said. “We were a ranching family. We were ranching, and the government came to take our livelihood away, and we said ‘no.’ It was no more than that.”

He said the only real announcement he had made was that he was unplugging from Facebook, after being surprised by the angry response to his remarks on the caravan. His decision to speak out came after his views were solicited on the issue and he sought to do some research to figure out how he felt about it, he said.

“I was asked multiple times from different various individuals what I thought about these caravans, and I didn’t know, to be honest with you. I didn’t know the facts,” he said. “So I began to research and try to determine the facts."

His verdict on the caravan, which he delivered in a 17-minute video at the time, broke sharply with Trump-aligned orthodoxy on the issue. In the run up to the midterm elections, Trump repeatedly disparaged the caravan as an “invasion," a national security threat requiring the emergency deployment of thousands of U.S. troops.

“He has basically called them all criminals,” Bundy said of Trump in the video. “What about the fathers, the mothers, the children, who have come here and are willing to go through the process to apply for asylum so they can come into this country and benefit from not having to be oppressed continually by criminals?"

Bundy, whose family’s selective interpretation of Mormonism undergirds its members' anti-government outlook, said his views on the migrants were motivated in part by his religious faith. He criticized partisan-inflected media coverage of the caravan from the right and left, and said assertions that the migrants were being paid by liberal philanthropist George Soros or had terrorists in their ranks were “a bunch of garbage.”

 

However, it's noteworthy that Bundy really resents the media for trying to lump all militia types into the same boat.  

[CTRLZero]

Quote

“So I began to research and try to determine the facts."   .... He criticized partisan-inflected media coverage of the caravan from the right and left,

I'm glad he was taking a look at both sides of the issue.  That was unexpected.

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

Ammon Bundy made my local news again when he had trouble trying to buy an assault rifle. 

https://www.ktvb.com/mobile/article/news/local/ammon-bundy-guns-protests-federal-background-check-assault-rifle/277-9e41ebad-189d-4d59-bad0-d651810afe6e

TLDR is that he tried to buy an AR 15 and was initially denied, because his background check showed he had a felony conviction and was on felony probation. Since he was actually found not guilty , he was later cleared to buy the gun. When he was shown the papers he needed to sign to buy the gun, he chose to refuse to sign (because he "doesn't agree with any of the process"), and therefore couldn't buy it. Don't worry though, he apparently plans to build his own gun.

He reportedly put all this on his public Facebook page, but since I don't have Facebook, I can't see any of it. 

I wouldn't mind if I never saw another Bundy in the news again.

Edited September 6, 2019 by WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?
punctuation

[Howl]

I was gobsmacked to see this topic pop  up!  Dear old Cliven, indeed. 

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

On 9/6/2019 at 11:46 AM, WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? said:

I wouldn't mind if I never saw another Bundy in the news again.

I guess I'm on Santa's naughty list, because I didn't get my wish.

Ammon Bundy calls for action, response to Idaho family removed from home.

Quote

In an appeal on social media, Ammon questioned a law enforcement raid on the Nickerson family home in Orofino, Idaho. He said the family had been in a dispute with a bank for nearly a decade and that the bank had foreclosed.

Ammon accused the Clearwater County Sheriff of double-crossing the family. Serving a Writ of Ejection at the home on Neff Road, the deputies removed the family at 2 p.m. on Tuesday.

Apparently Ammon jumped the gun a bit in this case, because he did an about face 2 days later.

Ammon Bundy says Nickersons 'did not uphold their obligation':

Quote

Ammon Bundy, known for his involvement in a 2016 occupation of a national wildlife refuge in eastern Oregon, posted a video on his Facebook page Thursday concluding that Clearwater County Sheriff Chris Goetz did nothing wrong when he evicted Charles “Nick” and Donna Nickerson from their Orofino property.

In a nearly 15-minute self-filmed video, Bundy, who lives in Emmett, Idaho, detailed the research through court documents and papers provided by the Nickerson family he and other companions from southern Idaho sifted through since Wednesday morning. Bundy said they concluded that the documents do not back up the Nickersons’ claims that they were defrauded and denied due diligence by the banks and the courts and that the sheriff enforced terms that the Nickersons agreed to when they signed the contract.

Please, Santa, tell me what I have to do next year to get my wish!  

[Howl]

I always get a little tingle when this thread pops up again. 

Ammon's beliefs are, in my opinion, bat shit crazy.  He's obs flying Sovereign Citizen colors when he refused to sign the paperwork for purchasing a gun.  But then, he takes the time to carefully research whether the claims by the Nickersons were accurate.  Ammon was (is?) a businessman who would have a good basic understanding of contracts. 

He didn't call for his fellow Sovereign Citizens to set up an armed resistance camp at the Nickerson's, so at least he's learned something. 

I live in conservative Texas and can't even imagine how much crazy there is in various pockets of Idaho. 

[church_of_dog]

Judge revokes grazing permit for ranchers pardoned by Trump

PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) — A judge on Friday revoked the grazing permit of two ranchers who were pardoned last year by President Donald Trump on an arson conviction for setting fire to federal lands.

U.S. District Judge Michael Simon ruled in the long-running case after hearing arguments from the U.S. Bureau of Land Management, which granted a 10-year grazing permit to Dwight and Steven Hammond after Trump's July 2018 pardon. The renewal prompted a coalition of environmental groups to sue.

[Howl]

The residual power of Ammon Bundy    What’s it like when the West’s most notorious anti-government figure comes to your town?

[AmazonGrace]

Because of course he is.

[Howl]

Lots of violent rhetoric.  This is the kind of shit that gets people killed, but you have to wonder exactly who the enemy is.  I'm assuming for all of the Bundys, it's any manifestation of county, state, Federal government. 

Quote

The newspaper [Idaho Press] reported that Bundy and others made ominous references at a Thursday meeting to making preparations for conflict “before the world comes to an end,” and a text message sent before the gathering warned that “force that is evident to come upon us.”

I wasn't aware that Mormons were that into End Times.  That said the Chad and Lori Daybell case was heavily influenced with apocalyptic prophecy. 

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

On 8/28/2020 at 2:55 PM, Howl said:

The residual power of Ammon Bundy    What’s it like when the West’s most notorious anti-government figure comes to your town?

I'll try to read that soon, but my short answer to "what's it like?" is that it sucks, because he sucks. (And I don't even live in Emmett or Gem County!) 

Here's just one fun story of the Amazing Antics of Ammon! during Covid:

https://www.ktvb.com/mobile/article/news/local/capitol-watch/ammon-bundy-trespassing-arrest-idaho-capitol-building/277-127c5c63-0990-416d-a3c6-65d288f51609

(He got arrested twice in a short span of time for trespassing at the capitol building. )

 

He also got a high school football game stopped midway:

https://www.ktvb.com/mobile/article/news/local/ammon-bundy-refuses-to-wear-a-mask-at-emmett-high-school-football-game-game-forced-to-end-at-half/277-49a8d7cb-8280-4cb3-9908-c8088f462343

Can he  please go back to Arizona? Maybe there's a nice deserted island?

ETA--His 2 arrests in about 24 hours at the capitol building went along with our own VERY mini version of the January 6 riots at the US Capitol Building. Our biggest casualty was a glass panel in a door.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.idahostatesman.com/opinion/from-the-opinion-editor/article245210490.html

Oh! I almost forgot this fun protest at a health district meeting, back in July 2020:

https://www.ktvb.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/mask-mandate-protest-southwest-district-health-meeting-idaho-covid-19/277-a93a083e-80ea-4e85-960d-e07add71562e

Seriously! When can we send this guy and his buddies on a one way trip to Mars to test some new life support technology??!! ? ? ?

Edited January 21, 2021 by WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?
riffle then eta

[Howl]

Yup, and every time some wing-nut, armed-to-the-teeth LARP militia types show up to "protest" intimidate and nobody dares mess with them because nobody wants a bloody shoot out...

Armed occupation of Malheur refuge was ‘dress rehearsal’ for violent takeover of nation’s Capitol, extremist watchdogs say

[church_of_dog]

*cheers*

The Biden administration has blocked the Hammonds' grazing permit.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/dwight-steve-hammond-ammon-bundy-public-grazing-permits-oregon_n_603dc2e4c5b6ff75ac3ef363

 

The Biden administration’s Bureau of Land Management has rescinded a new permit for grazing on public lands granted to two Oregon arsonist ranchers pardoned by Donald Trump.

The arson convictions of Dwight Hammond and his son Steven for torching public lands was at the center of an armed takeover in 2016 of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Oregon, which led to a 41-day armed standoff with federal authorities. The assault was led by militant rancher brothers Ryan and Ammon Bundy.

Edited March 2, 2021 by church_of_dog
forgot to quote some of the article

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

Thanks, @church_of_dog! I missed that Trump pardoned the Hammonds and then gave them a10 year grazing permit on his last day of office. Ugh. Glad the environmental group sued to stop the permit on the basis that Trump's administration ignored legal requirements. 

When I saw that you posted here, I thought, "Uh oh. NOW what?" Yay for good news!

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

More Amazing Antics of Ammon™️. Sigh.

https://www.ktvb.com/mobile/article/news/crime/warrant-issued-after-ammon-bundy-fails-to-show-up-for-jury-trial-idaho-courthouse/277-f9763f60-90fa-447d-8a2b-3a339374d634

Quote

BOISE, Idaho — A local anti-government figure and one other man were arrested on bench warrants after they missed their scheduled court appearances in Ada County Monday morning.

Ammon Bundy and Aaron Von Schmidt, both 42, were due to appear in court at 8:15 a.m. for their jury trials on misdemeanor trespassing and resisting arrest charges.

The men showed up at the courthouse, according to the Ada County Sheriff's Office, but refused to wear masks to enter the building. The Idaho Supreme Court has ruled everyone must wear a mask covering their mouth and nose at all times inside the Ada County Courthouse. The mask order applies to everyone participating in trials or other court hearings. 

Both men stood around outside and missed their court hearings, at which point Judge David Manweiler issued bench warrants for their arrest for failing to appear. Bundy and Von Schmidt will both forfeit their $600 bonds; the bond set on the bench warrant is $10,000 each.

Several dozen Bundy supporters showed up outside the Ada County Courthouse to protest. 

After Manweiler issued bench warrants for failure to appear, a deputy approached Bundy and Von Schmidt, told them what had happened in court, and asked if they would voluntarily come with him. The men both refused, according to the sheriff's office, and Bundy lay down on the ground.

A group of deputies then moved through the crowd to take Bundy and Von Schmidt into custody. A group of protesters locked arms to try to keep law enforcement from reaching the defendants, but they were ultimately unsuccessful and Bundy and Von Schmidt were arrested.

At the same time, two other Bundy supporters - identified as 69-year-old Casey J. Baker and 32-year-old Garth G. Gaylord - got into physical confrontations with deputies. In the scuffle, a third man who was not attacking the deputies fell down and hit his head, according to the sheriff's office. 

The man who fell was taken to the hospital, while Baker was arrested for felony battery on a law enforcement officer and misdemeanor resisting arrest. Gaylord was cited for resisting arrest and released.

Bundy, Von Schmidt, and Baker were all transported to the Ada County Jail, and the protest died down shortly after. All three remain in custody as of Monday afternoon.

Bundy's criminal case stems from an incident during the special session of the Idaho Legislature in August, during which he and two others refused to leave the Lincoln Auditorium in the Idaho Statehouse after a hearing was switched to another part of the building and Idaho State Police troopers told them to leave. When he refused to get out of his swivel chair, troopers rolled the chair out of the building and arrested him.

Von Schmidt, who also refused to leave the committee room, was arrested at the same time.

Bundy returned the next day, but was served with a no-trespassing notice as he was sitting in the Senate gallery. He again refused to leave, and was arrested a second time on trespassing and resisting arrest charges. Those charges were later dismissed.

So, 3 taken into custody, and 1 sent to the hospital. 

On the plus side, I got a screenshot of my favorite view of Ammon from the video in the article. 

Spoiler

Pro tip: if you want to plant yourself someplace (like a room in the Capitol Building in August 2020) and refuse to move, don't plant yourself in a chair with wheels. It makes it extra easy for the police officers to remove you!

 

Edited March 16, 2021 by WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?
clarify when picture is from

[47of74]

If he does bond out he’ll have to wear a mask in court. 

Quote

"Mr. Bundy today refused to wear a mask to come into the courthouse and thus was not granted admission," Steven Hippler, administrative judge for the Fourth Judicial District, told NBC News.

If or when Bundy makes bail, a condition of the bond will be a requirement that he follow courthouse rules, including face coverings, said Hippler.

 

[Botkinetti]

I love that picture. I find it hilarious that he believes himself to be standing up for his rights and instead of arguing the troopers just wheeled him on out of there. 
No show of force , no endless stand off and no using weapons. I hope he felt like an idiot when he realized he couldn’t grandstand but instead was being treated like a toddler.

[church_of_dog]

CNN's got it too:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/16/us/ammon-bundy-arrest/index.html

[fraurosena]

4 hours ago, Botkinetti said:

I hope he felt like an idiot when he realized he couldn’t grandstand but instead was being treated like a toddler.

That's what you get for acting like one.