Armed Protesters take over Oregon Federal Wildlife Refuge Part 2

[AmazonGrace]

Dear ryan c; idiot, there has been a terrible mistake in your legal filing. While you may be right in thinking that you were fooled into doing some stupid and illegal things, it should be noted that neither your daddy or brother are law enforcement agents and while they may think they are a state unto themselves, they cannot be described as the United States government. This court would also like to point out that if you are stupid enough to be entrapped into  an armed occupation of a federal establishment, then you are probably too stupid to properly represent yourself in a court of law. Have a nice day.

Edited September 6, 2016 by AmazonGrace

[Howl]

On 9/6/2016 at 5:11 AM, AmazonGrace said:

This court would also like to point out that if you are stupid enough to be entrapped into  an armed occupation of a federal establishment, then you are probably too stupid to properly represent yourself in a court of law. Have a nice day.

So true!  Too bad Ryan is too clueless to understand this. 

Apparently, Pete Santilli is off the hook and charges were dismissed yesterday.  

Quote

Federal prosecutors dropped charges against one of the Bundy’s co-defendants, Peter Santilli, a journalist who livestreamed events at the refuge, writing in a motion filed on Tuesday that “the interests of justice do not support further pursuit of these charges.”

Jury selection begins today.

By the way, I've started checking One America News Network; they carried the information above under their US News tab under "Trending".  Although my understanding is that their OP-ED stance is conservative, they seem to cover everything (without click bait) and they cover many things on the international level not addressed by other news web sites.  I like their general format as well.  

[Howl]

So, Things have gotten underway in jury selection and Ryan wants to wear boots to court, 'cause cowboy.  Prisoners are not allowed boots, belts or neckties.  These items could potentially be used as weapons or for a prisoner to injure himself. 

Ammon's rocking a gray suit with white dress shirt (no tie, see above) and white socks with loafers.   Ryan is wearing jeans with a leather vest over a dress shirt....and loafers.  Not sure how either guy is holding up his pants (no belt, see above).  Anyway, Judge Brown thinks they are already better dressed than almost any of the defendants she typically sees in her courtroom, so moving right along. 

Also, rumors are that a guy named Bobby Powell (another self-appointed journalist in the Pete Santilli mold) was handcuffed yesterday out side the court house, but no details.  

Bobby Powell's fb: https://www.facebook.com/TheTruthIsViral/

However, in Bobby Powell world, just as important as the unfair imprisonment of Bundys et al., is the fact that Hillary is selling our natural resources to the Chinese. How she's doing this as a private citizen who does not currently hold an elected or appointed office is so mysterious. 

Ryan's stand-by lawyer will have to continue to stand by her man.  Ryan's trying to ditch her, but the judge says he can't.  From OregonLive: 

Quote

The judge reminded Bundy that he chose to serve as his own lawyer, and the court appointed Ludwig to assist him should he change his mind, or in the event that the court must exclude Bundy from the courtroom.

"You don't have any right to choose who that is,'' Brown reminded Bundy.

Edited September 9, 2016 by Howl

[Howl]

It's on!  The trial has begun.  During the introduction of the defendants, Ryan Bundy introduced himself by telling the jurors, "I'm glad to be here, I guess...not really".

It's an important day, because the charges and issues are being laid out for the jury and each defendant has a chance to present his/her side of things, either in person (self representation) or through a lawyer.  An observer thought the public defenders did the best job. 

Oregon Public Radio, opb.org, has a detailed report on today's proceedings, and you can read that HERE if you are following the trial. 

 

 

Edited September 14, 2016 by Howl

[47of74]

3 hours ago, Howl said:

It's on!  The trial has begun.  During the introduction of the defendants, Ryan Bundy introduced himself by telling the jurors, "I'm glad to be here, I guess...not really".

It's an important day, because the charges and issues are being laid out for the jury and each defendant has a chance to present his/her side of things, either in person (self representation) or through a lawyer.  An observer thought the public defenders did the best job. 

Oregon Public Radio, opb.org, has a detailed report on today's proceedings, and you can read that HERE if you are following the trial. 

 

 

Yeah don't ask me to write an IRAC for that trial.  I think about half way through my head would probably explode cause all the stupid that would be flying around.

Edited September 14, 2016 by 47of74

[Howl]

Judge Anna Brown will keep things on a steady keel.  Mumford, Ammon's lawyer, already brought up adverse possession.  IMHO, adverse possession, in this case "We has all your land, we want it, we take it" could be hard to explain to a jury, without coming across like a thug, an a**hole, just plain crazy, or, you know, a thief.  From opb.org

Quote

The court also heard about adverse possession — essentially taking over land and acting like it’s your own so it legally becomes yours. Mumford presented this legal doctrine as the main defense of Bundy’s actions, saying Bundy thought he was employing that method on the refuge.

U.S. District Court Judge Anna Brown carefully pointed out that adverse possession isn’t a defense against the conspiracy charge, but she has allowed the defendants to raise it as an opportunity to explain their line of thinking.

David Fry's attorney testified that David has been diagnosed with schizotypal personality disorder.  Shawna Cox rambled on and was told to get to the point or sit down. 

Sheriff Dave Ward testifies today.  Before the occupation, Ammon and Ryan (armed) met with Sheriff Ward at the police station.  Depending on which side of the desk you were on, it was either very amicable or somewhat threatening. 

Edited September 14, 2016 by Howl

[Howl]

OregonLive has a post up about Ammon's decision to wear jail scrubs today (Thursday) instead of a suit to trial to emphasize his self-perceived status as a political prisoner.  He has worn a nice suit with dress shirt on Tuesday and Wednesday. 

Commenters to that post suggested these titles, if the Malheur occupation were a movie.  These are my favorites: 

No Refuge For Old Men.  Blood Stupid.  The Big Trenchdigski.  True Grift.  The Koch***ker Proxies.  Snacks On A Plain.  A Few Acres More. 

For some reason, Snacks on a Plain made me laugh the hardest and I still laugh every time I think about it.  

[Howl]

All quoted text from a Web site called Energy and Environment Daily.  Full text here.

With the minimal testimony so far from Harney County Sheriff Dave Ward and refuge manager Chad Karges, the jury would come back with a guilty verdict in about 18 minutes, for impeding federal officials from doing their jobs.  

There have been various references here and there about a plot to kidnap a Federal employee, but not tied to anyone in particular.  However, 

Quote

 

In several hours of testimony, Karges, a 30-year veteran of the Interior Department who has been at Malheur for 17 years, said he also received intelligence that the occupiers had accessed all of his employees' personal files.

Karges said he learned of the kidnap threat from intelligence passed on to him, slipping the fact into his testimony before a defendant’s lawyer cut him off.

Karges also said he worried that something would happen in the days leading up to the standoff.

On Dec. 31, he told two employees to go home early because of "rising tensions in the community."

 

Personnel files would have everything, especially information about where all employees lived.  The town was filling up with armed men.  If my personal files were stolen in the context of an armed takeover, I'd be paranoid to the absolute max.  I'm sure the jury is understanding this.  

Quote

 

Karges' testimony included many photos and videos of Bundy and the other defendants at the refuge. For nearly all of them, Karges identified them and said where on the refuge they were taken.

Many of the photos showed men carrying assault rifles or using the refuge's trucks, bulldozers and other machinery.

Other photos also showed safes that had been broken into. Karges said there was several hundred dollars' worth of cash missing after the standoff.

 

 

It's obvious that the defense strategy is to introduce the validity of Federal land ownership at every opportunity with every. single. witness.  At some point, Judge Brown will bring the hammer down, but Mumford, especially, will keep trying. 

Quote

 

On cross-examination, most of the defendants' lawyers pressed Karges on how the refuge obtained its land — both in the original 1908 designation by President Theodore Roosevelt and via two subsequent large land purchases in 1935 and 1942.

Bundy's attorney, Marcus Mumford, asked Karges if he had reviewed the deeds of the land sales.

The questions, however, drew a series of fast and repeated objections from the government, nearly all of which were sustained by federal District Court Judge Anna Brown.

Brown reiterated that the government's ownership of the refuge land — or federal lands generally — is not at issue in the case.

"We're not going into this," she said.

 

To me, this is a tricky approach.  Every time they introduce it, it telegraphs to the jury that the defense has no defense to the specific charges.  

[47of74]

I think Judge Brown is getting tired of the fun and games...

katu.com/news/local/gallery/refuge-occupier-trial-sparks-fly-as-judge-threatens-ammon-bundys-attorney-with-contempt

Quote

PORTLAND, Ore. — Judge Anna Brown threatened refuge occupier leader Ammon Bundy's attorney Marcus Mumford with contempt and a $1,000 fine if he continued to bring up the circumstances of Lavoy Finicum's death Thursday in U.S. District Court.

Bundy, along with his brother, Ryan Bundy and five other defendants, are accused of conspiring to prevent federal employees from carrying out their jobs during a 41-day standoff at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge beginning January second.

Mumford continued to argue the point before agreeing to comply with the judge's order.

The exchange came during continuing testimony by FBI negotiators Marc Maxwell and Jennifer Lohmeier, who both spoke by telephone with occupiers David Fry and Jeff Banta during the siege.

 

[Howl]

So much fun today.  It's time for the defendants to present their (respective) defenses.  For the first half hour, nobody knew who was going to go first to call a witness.  After 30 minutes of this, Judge Brown got very annoyed and finally Per Olsen, David Fry's attorney, called the FBI negotiator Mark Maxwell.  From opb.org: 

Quote

 

Maxwell spent several weeks in Harney County and spoke on the phone with Fry and fellow occupier Jeff Banta in the final days of the 41-day takeover. Olsen’s line of questioning seemed to be driving at establishing his client’s mental state in those final days.

Olsen asked Maxwell about Fry holding a gun to his head and having suicidal thoughts. Maxwell testified about working through suicide prevention techniques with Fry. He also described the final conversation with Fry, when the 28-year-old from Ohio demanded negotiators say “hallelujah” before he would surrender.

“I said ‘hallelujah,’” Maxwell said.

“And he came out?” Olsen asked.

“And he came out,” Maxwell said.

 

In the Honor Among Thieves category, over 30 members of the Idaho 3% rump militia group tendered a mass resignation when it came to light that their president, Brandon Curtiss, used up $2,900 of donated funds to buy car accessories and such.  Funds were collected over the summer to help 4 defendants from the Cliven Bundy Ranch standoff in Nevada, who received only $429.  The article sounds as though that was $429 total, and not $429 for each of the four men.  Link here. 

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

On Wednesday, September 28, 2016 at 2:17 PM, Howl said:

snipped

In the Honor Among Thieves category, over 30 members of the Idaho 3% rump militia group tendered a mass resignation when it came to light that their president, Brandon Curtiss, used up $2,900 of donated funds to buy car accessories and such.  Funds were collected over the summer to help 4 defendants from the Cliven Bundy Ranch standoff in Nevada, who received only $429.  The article sounds as though that was $429 total, and not $429 for each of the four men.  Link here. 

Curtiss and the remaining members are blaming their former vice president, Johnathan Casey, for at least part of the money going missing. (Link here.)

Quote

Thursday’s statement by 3% of Idaho blamed former vice president Johnathan Casey for $1,400 in “unexplained expenditures.” The group said Casey charged cell phone bills, groceries and took “several unexplained cash withdrawals” using his 3% of Idaho debit card.

Casey reflects the blame back on Curtiss, of course.

The Idaho Statesman went into more details on Curtiss' messy financial situations in yesterday's article.  Multiple bankruptcies, and more, but now it sounds like he's starting a new business: a fugitive apprehension service. 

Quote

In June, Curtiss filed registration documents for a new business with the Idaho Secretary of State’s Office. According to its Facebook page, Sons of Liberty Recovery apprehends fugitives.

(my bold)

Coming soon: Stupid, the Bounty Hunter!

[Howl]

Thanks for that link.  Do I see a pattern here of misusing other people's money?
From the Idaho Statesman article linked by @WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?

Quote

 

Curtiss left a trail of unpaid bills and was sued by the owners of properties he managed for failing to turn over rent money he collected from apartment residents. He owes a Portland couple, Aaron and Leslie Boyce, $68,549 from a judgment issued after Curtiss failed to turn over rents and deposits owed on a rental he managed for them.

Last week, a bankruptcy court judge ordered Curtiss to pay $22,350 plus $2,000 in attorney fees to Martinique Properties. The company, owned by state Rep. Steven Harris, R-Meridian, had contracted with Curtiss Property Management and claimed Curtiss failed to turn over money owed from rentals.

The order by Chief U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Terry Myers cannot be discharged through bankruptcy.

 

Is this considered theft and therefore a criminal action? 

Why can I not get over the feeling that all of these rump militia types deserve each other?

[doggie]

been forgetting to post this. A protest for these didonians in downtown portland with patriotic horse blanket no less. right across the street is a small wedding going on in the other park. keep portland weird. 

[DaisyD]

Well that looks... successful. Hopefully they aren't out there shouting while those other folks are trying to have a wedding. 

[doggie]

No they were peaceful. But the horse in the middle of a downtown city was a bit much.

[Howl]

On 10/1/2016 at 3:27 PM, doggie said:

No they were peaceful. But the horse in the middle of a downtown city was a bit much.

Is that horse Hell Boy?  That was the horse at the refuge ridden by the guy with the big flag and everybody worried about what ultimately happened to the horse.

[47of74]

On 9/28/2016 at 3:17 PM, Howl said:

So much fun today.  It's time for the defendants to present their (respective) defenses.  For the first half hour, nobody knew who was going to go first to call a witness.  After 30 minutes of this, Judge Brown got very annoyed and finally Per Olsen, David Fry's attorney, called the FBI negotiator Mark Maxwell.  From opb.org: 

In the Honor Among Thieves category, over 30 members of the Idaho 3% rump militia group tendered a mass resignation when it came to light that their president, Brandon Curtiss, used up $2,900 of donated funds to buy car accessories and such.  Funds were collected over the summer to help 4 defendants from the Cliven Bundy Ranch standoff in Nevada, who received only $429.  The article sounds as though that was $429 total, and not $429 for each of the four men.  Link here. 

I see OPB said defendants could wrap up their part of the trial this week.

http://www.opb.org/news/series/burns-oregon-standoff-bundy-militia-news-updates/oregon-standoff-trial-defense-begins-case-fbi/

I so hope they are found guilty on all charges.  I so wanna see the look on their faces when they learn they'll be going away for a real long time.  I wonder if that would prompt some more sovereign citizen whackadoodleness from one ryan c.; idiot?

[Howl]

As noted somewhere, Ammon Bundy originally thought that the occupation would be dealt with as a civil, rather than criminal, issue

The collective fantasy going into this was that they would control the trial narrative, introduce the jury to the miracle of adverse possession, the pocket constitution and the martyrdom of LaVoy Finicum and be rightly recognized as awesome freedom fighting cowboy patriots.  Judge Brown has put the kibosh on that.  Unless there's a hung jury, these guys are going to cause a small bump in the prison population.  Wonder if they will be in the same prison with the Hammonds? 

[47of74]

1 hour ago, Howl said:

As noted somewhere, Ammon Bundy originally thought that the occupation would be dealt with as a civil, rather than criminal, issue

The collective fantasy going into this was that they would control the trial narrative, introduce the jury to the miracle of adverse possession, the pocket constitution and the martyrdom of LaVoy Finicum and be rightly recognized as awesome freedom fighting cowboy patriots.  Judge Brown has put the kibosh on that.  Unless there's a hung jury, these guys are going to cause a small bump in the prison population.  Wonder if they will be in the same prison with the Hammonds? 

I  wonder if the BOP would separate the Bundy brothers when they go to the big house?  One going to one prison and the other to a different prison?  I think the BOP will have a good laugh when the Bundys start requesting all sorts of stuff.

[Howl]

New York Times article on the trial: Bundy Brothers, Who Sought to Rally a Nation, Draw Scant Support at Trial

Quote

Outside the downtown courthouse where the brothers, Ammon and Ryan Bundy, and five others are on trial for conspiracy, their supporters have dwindled to a handful of self-described patriots carrying pocket Constitutions and lamenting their shrunken ranks.

“I had hoped there would be hundreds of people here, but there’s not,” said Jason Patrick, 44, tugging on a cigarette not far from a Black Lives Matter rally that had more than 100 participants. “Why wouldn’t you come to the most pressing court case of your time?”

I guess it's just a matter of perspective! I'm following the trial for entertainment purposes and to address my morbid curiosity issues. 

But there's some good fall out from the occupation --  it shone a bright light on the movement to transfer Federal lands to state control, and prompted counter action from a variety of state and local entities, primarily those for whom outdoor tourism is an important component of their economy. 

Quote

In a twist, the Oregon occupation seems to have encouraged a revolt the Bundy brothers never expected: In recent months, counties around the West have begun passing resolutions specifically affirming their support for keeping federal lands from being turned over to the state. Some of them have been helped by the Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership, a group that supports the rights of hunters and fishermen.

“It was backlash against this notion that all Westerners don’t like the federal government owning public land,” said Whit Fosburgh, the organization’s president. “The whole Bundy invasion probably set back the transfer movement significantly. Because it displayed this movement as a bunch of kooks.”

Commissioners in at least 21 places from New Mexico to Wyoming have signed pro-public lands resolutions. In interviews, several said they had become concerned that their state leaders, if given control of federal lands, would start selling the ski slopes, river rapids and trekking trails that drive their communities’ economies and souls.

“We all utilize those public lands for hiking and biking and motorcycle riding, floating the rivers,” said Bill Leake, a commissioner in Teton County, Idaho, who sign a pro-public lands resolution in July. “I don’t see myself as a rebel — I just see myself as an informed county commissioner.”

The article also noted that

Quote

the Bundys and their co-defendants face up to six years in prison.

 

Edited October 3, 2016 by Howl

[Howl]

All quoted text from today's OregonLive coverage of the trial. 

Ammon was set to testify this afternoon, but I'm not sure he did.  However, the defense is trying to set up the explanation that the large amounts of armaments brought in by the occupiers were in direct response to a fear of hostile Federal action.  

Quote

U.S. District Court Judge Anna Brown said she will allow the defense to develop that theory before the jury. However, Brown added the theory does not address the main charge all of the defendants face — that they conspired to impede federal workers from doing their jobs by using threats, force or intimidation.

The defense called a witness, Chris Briels, a local Burns resident, who had seen activity near the local armory and later learned that people he saw were Federal agents.  He visited the refuge "numerous" times and the defense was trying to show he was bringing in outside information pointing to the possibility of Federal action, hence the need for weapons.  Briels testified that

Quote

a white pickup truck was parked at the refuge entrance with armed guards standing by. The guards would radio back to people on the refuge for approval. The truck would back up, clearing a path, and Briels would proceed onto the refuge, according to his testimony. Briels said this check-in procedure happened every time.

The prosecution jumped on this detail, which repeated points they raised while laying out their case: The organized security operation established by the occupiers impeded federal workers from doing their jobs.

Sigh. 

Edited October 4, 2016 by Howl

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

Ammon Bundy's wife, Lisa, talked with reporters today.

Quote

“I feel like the judge is very biased," she [Lisa Bundy] said of U.S. District Judge Anna Brown. "I feel she's leading the jurors. I think she's giving the prosecution everything and not allowing anything on the defendants. She is not fair."

I guess a fair judge would be a supporter of the Sovereign Citizens' ideals? 

The article also covers the judge throwing out the gun charge against Shawna Cox and Sheriff Ward's testimony on Monday. I liked one quote from Sheriff Ward:

Quote

Ammon Bundy's lawyer, Marcus Mumford, reminded Ward he previously testified that he always felt comfortable speaking with Bundy. "Being comfortable talking to someone doesn't make them honest," Ward said.

my bold

 

Edited October 5, 2016 by WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?
Removed unnecessary "the".

[Howl]

This is not directly related to the trial, but the Challis, Idaho BLM office was "completely gutted" by fire Monday night.  No one is saying that it's arson, but there is an arson investigation going on to rule out or confirm arson.  

This particular BLM office has been picketed by Idaho III% in the past. 

Back to the trial, a woman who was at the refuge was supposedly a paid informant and will testify for the prosecution. Frantic prayers are requesting that God turn her so she'll testify for the defense.  

I suspect that God's not totally on top of this, but you never know. 

Ammon was very emotional at times as he testified today.   Link to a report on his testimony today by OregonLive here. 

Edited October 5, 2016 by Howl

[AmazonGrace]

Oh liddle widdle Ammon....

[seattlechic]

1 minute ago, AmazonGrace said:

Oh liddle widdle Ammon....

I heard he cried like a little boy on the stand? Is that true? Please say it is!!!