Armed Protesters take over Oregon Federal Wildlife Refuge Part 2

[AmazonGrace]

Quote

 

Mumford also says it is misleading to characterize Bundy's actions as an "armed occupation." Instead, he said, the protesters were merely "open carrying" their weapons.

"There was no brandishing or anything," he said. "We're talking about the distinctions the law has to make. It can't be illegal just because you go in to establish an adverse possession claim against the government and you happen to be open carrying; that doesn't make it an armed invasion."

 

 

So  I can go and take lots of guns  into Mumford's office, force him out and establish an adverse possession, and he has no problem with it?

[Howl]

51 minutes ago, AmazonGrace said:

 

So  I can go and take lots of guns  into Mumford's office, force him out and establish an adverse possession, and he has no problem with it?

Excellent point.  Well, as long as it is a free speech issue and you are "just" open carrying, alrighty then.  

The current charges are prohibiting federal employees from doing their jobs and firearms possession in a federal facility.  Depending on circumstances and the level of violence involved, conviction can lead to a life sentence for the latter.  

Immediately prior to the occupation, there was a protest in Burns in support of the Hammonds.  I'm sure people open carried out the kazoo AND NOBODY WAS ARRESTED.   People displayed signs in favor of the Hammonds AND NOBODY WAS ARRESTED. That type of protest is protected speech.   I don't think the Bundys will get very far with their argument,  although they devoutly believe that God is on their side, and they are divinely inspired. 

Sigh.  Just went over the edge into all caps.  Deep breathing, saying my mantra.  Calm now.  In a good place now.  Stepping away from the keyboard. 

[myhobby]

Leaving my lurker status to say....you can't have a weapon in a federal building.   Open carry or not.  I wish I'd thought to check here when this was all happening.  I could've used all the snarkiness to relieve the tension around here.

[Howl]

This should make the Bundys happy:  According to OPB, Judge Anna Brown has dismissed serious weapons charges against 8 of the defendants: 

Quote

U.S. District Court Judge Anna Brown dismissed the charge that eight occupiers used and carried firearms in the course of a “crime of violence.”  

She ruled that the case against Ammon Bundy, Ryan Bundy, Ryan Payne and five other occupation leaders doesn’t meet the technical definition of a violent crime.  

Lawyers for the defendants had argued that the weapons charge was actually intended to be used in crimes like armed robberies.  

The weapons charge carried some of the toughest potential sentences for occupation defendants.

According to OregonLive, authorities found over 1,650 rounds of spent ammunition at the refuge, which were apparently the result of firearms "training" at the refuge during the occupation.

Quote

The government is seeking the civil forfeiture of 50 guns and huge caches of ammunition that federal agents either seized from the refuge after the 41-day occupation or from defendants' cars and homes, the complaint says. Authorities earlier seized 14 other guns in or near the refuge in January.

In the meantime, a second person has pled guilty to conspiracy charges: 

Quote

Eric Lee Flores, 22, on Thursday admitted he traveled to the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge with guns and did guard duty there in January as he pleaded guilty to conspiring to impede federal officers through intimidation, threats or force.

Federal prosecutors will recommend that Flores, among the youngest indicted in the case and now with his first felony conviction, serve six months on home detention when he's sentenced Dec. 8....As part of Flores' plea deal, he has agreed to forfeit the seven guns seized by the government, pay an undetermined amount of restitution and waive the right to an appeal, except in limited circumstances. The felony conviction prevents Flores from possessing any firearms or ammunition, the judge told him.

The first person to plead guilty, Corey Lequieu, will likely be sentenced to 2.5 years in prison.  As a felon in possession of numerous firearms, he could have been sent away for up to six  years, so a plea deal made sense. 

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/05/first_oregon_standoff_defendan.html

The plea deal also protects him from any charges related to his presence at the Bundy ranch standoff. 

Another Malheur occupier who was on pretrial supervision in Spokane was carried out of a Trump rally in May by Trump security for yelling, "Save the ranchers", which prompted a phone hearing with a judge.  The judge advised Thorn to focus on work, return to his residence and stay away from rallies or protests, "frankly for your own good.''

Edited June 13, 2016 by Howl

[DaisyD]

 NOT! Are we really surprised he's a terrible sheriff? His job is to uphold the law, whether or not he agrees with it. His support of y'allqueda showed that he doesn't get that. He also arrests people who report his relatives' crimes? Of course he does.  Time to go buddy boy.

[Howl]

34 minutes ago, daisyd681 said:

 NOT! Are we really surprised he's a terrible sheriff? His job is to uphold the law, whether or not he agrees with it. His support of y'allqueda showed that he doesn't get that. He also arrests people who report his relatives' crimes? Of course he does.  Time to go buddy boy.

Sorry, I fell down another rabbit hole of Malheur updates and deleted the Glenn Palmer info to focus on the Malheur plea deals.   @daisyd681 is referring to this: 

Quote

Grant County sheriff, deputy botched arrest in 'egregious abuse of power'.  

JOHN DAY -- A deputy protected his relatives from blame in a random shooting by arresting the 911 caller who reported it, resulting in a foul-up that raises fresh questions about embattled Grant County Sheriff Glenn Palmer.

The district attorney didn't pursue a case, instead rebuking Palmer and his deputy. The county quietly paid the caller $12,000 from its insurer to fend off a lawsuit.

"This incident is the most egregious abuse of power I have ever seen," said attorney Edie Rogoway, who represented the arrested man.

The botched arrest comes to light as Palmer faces a state criminal investigation for allegedly tampering with official records. He also faces a state administrative investigation into whether he's fit to retain his police certification.

Full text (worth a read): http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2016/06/egregious_abuse_seen_in_grant.html

Edited June 13, 2016 by Howl

[Howl]

Well, a few updates.  

Those who followed this from the beginning may recall that during the road block that resulted in LaVoy Finicum's death, the FBI fired two rifle shots and then pretended they didn't.  Evidence tampering charges are before a grand jury.  The government is trying to block the release of its memorandum about the inspector general's investigation into the FBI's handling of the Jan 26 shooting and keep it out of the hands of defense lawyers.  That doesn't look good. 

In the "never a dull moment" category:  This past week, a militia leader named William Keebler (also at the Bundy ranch standoff) was caught trying to blow up a BLM cabin in northern Arizona.  He was caught because there were FBI undercover agents involved. Keebler was also an "associate" of LaVoy Finicum, and the two had scouted out the cabin location in October 2015.  Text here: oregonlive.com/today/index.ssf/2016/06/utah_militia_leader_with_ties.html   

 In the meantime, another patriot occupier has accepted a plea deal and pled guilty. 

According to OregonLive, 

Quote

Federal prosecutors will recommend [Wesley] Kjar, who has no prior criminal record and has been out of custody on pretrial release, spend six months in home detention, followed by up to three years of supervised release. As part of the plea deal, he's agreed to forfeit any guns, ammunition or electronic devices that the government has seized from him.

Whether he must pay restitution remains in dispute and will be determined by the court.

He's set to be sentenced at 11 a.m. on Oct. 28. Count 2 of his indictment, charging him with possession of firearms in a federal facility, will be dismissed at sentencing.

Corey Lequieu, Eric Lee Flores, Geoffrey Stanek and Jason Blomgren have all accepted plea deals and Brian Cavalier will plead guilty soon. 

Edited June 25, 2016 by Howl

[SpoonfulOSugar]

Here is a SLTrib article about the "bomber" wanna-be.  I haven't gotten through all the comments, but I think it's fair to say this puts paid to the argument that Finicum was just a peacekeeper.

http://archive.sltrib.com/story.php?ref=/news/4040455-155/charges-utah-head-of-militia-tried.it

The OregonLive articles about the Bundys continue to entertain and enlighten.  I'm sorry I haven't been as active in this thread - seems I read about them late at night (on my tablet) and then forget to update when I am on my notebook.

[violynn]

Stars and stones, I have missed a LOT while engrossed in my daughter's wedding!  Thanks, y'all, for keeping the information coming!  I look forward to catching up again.

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

This isn't new, but I just came across it this week:

[Howl]

The effort to recall Judge Steve Grasty (in office since 1999) in Burns, OR has failed miserably.  The recall was prompted by an unpopular (to *some* citizens) decision to disallow a meeting(s) concerning the occupation on county property.  Bundy & Company (Malheur occupiers) were showing up to community meetings heavily armed and making other citizens nervous.  Bundy & Company felt that it infringed on their First Amendment right of freedom of assemble.  Of course, we saw how they felt free to assemble at Malheur Wildlife Refuge, so their interpretation of the First Amendment might be different than yours and mine. 

From OregonLive: 

Quote

Harney County Judge Steve Grasty on Tuesday beat a recall aimed at politically punishing him for standing up to occupation leader Ammon Bundy.

Unofficial final returns from Harney County Clerk Derrin "Dag" Robinson Tuesday night showed the recall failed 70% to 30%.

It was the second time in two months Harney County voters stood by elected officials who criticized Bundy's takeover of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in January. 

Harney County, where Burns and the Malheur Wildlife Refuge are located, has a County Court form of government. 

From the Harney County Web site: 

Quote

The County Court is an administrative body with duties directly related to the County's government.  The Court is made up of three elected officials (County Judge and two County Commissioners) and provides direction and guidance for the County in policy and rules. 

Although his title is Judge, he is the lead County Commissioner and has no legal training.  

Edited June 29, 2016 by Howl

[Howl]

So an interesting update.  I'm watching the Tour de France. Day 1 and Alberto Contador had a fall, with some seriously awful road rash, but will try to stay focused on the Bundys. 

Just before the deadline, Ammon filed for a continuance of two months to better prepare for his trail, which is currently scheduled to begin Sept. 7th.  Originally he was pushing to go to trial as quickly as possible. 

According to OregonLive, 

Quote

Bundy's last-minute decision prompted other co-defendants, including his brother Ryan Bundy, to file immediate motions on Friday, past the court-imposed deadline, seeking delays in their trials as well.

"My plan has always been to have a joint trial with my brother Ammon because we have a joint defense agreement and strategy,'' Ryan Bundy wrote. He said he wasn't aware of his brother's decision until his stand-by attorney informed him at 7 a.m. Thursday.

I'm wondering if this reflects some type of break among brothers or if jail conditions are just not conducive to communication.  

Oh, and Ammon Bundy wants out of jail STAT so he can better prepare his complicated defense.   I have a feeling he'll say it was all about freedom of speech and a peaceful protest to bring attention to the Hammond's unfair imprisonment, and the judge will say, "So what?"  

Full text of the OregonLive article, with much more detail on the legal filings, here. 

Edited July 3, 2016 by Howl

[SpoonfulOSugar]

4 minutes ago, Howl said:

I'm wondering if this reflects some type of break among brothers or if jail conditions are just not conducive to communication.  Or perhaps Ammon's new lawyers are encouraging him to have his own trial. 

Oh, and Ammon Bundy wants out of jail STAT so he can better prepare his complicated defense.   I have a feeling he'll say it was all about freedom of speech and a peaceful protest to bring attention to the Hammond's unfair imprisonment, and the judge will say, "So what?"  

Ryan argued in his filing that the jail conditions prevented him from communicating with his brother, and that they have always intended to have a shared defense.

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

Well, the is the old saying, "Two heads are better than one."

I think my brother's scout leader's saying applies in this case, though. "One guy, one brain. Two guys, half a brain. Three guys or more, no brains."  (He had many years of experience dealing with teenaged boys.)

[AmazonGrace]

But apparently they are able to communicate with their attorneys, as evidenced by the filings. Are the attorneys in jail too?   If Ammon intends to have a shared defense too he could have told his lawyer to ring Ryan's lawyer and tell them about the change of plans.

[SpoonfulOSugar]

5 hours ago, AmazonGrace said:

But apparently they are able to communicate with their attorneys, as evidenced by the filings. Are the attorneys in jail too?   If Ammon intends to have a shared defense too he could have told his lawyer to ring Ryan's lawyer and tell them about the change of plans.

Ryan is representing himself.  He has a standby lawyer, but he's "in charge."

Also, the decision was at the 11th hour.

I really don't think they have their legal ducks in a row.

[church_of_dog]

3 hours ago, SpoonfulOSugar said:

I really don't think they have their legal ducks migratory waterfowl in a row.

Just clarifying a detail for ya 

[Howl]

6 hours ago, SpoonfulOSugar said:

Ryan is representing himself.  He has a standby lawyer, but he's "in charge."

Also, the decision was at the 11th hour.

I really don't think they have their legal ducks in a row.

Thanks for that clarification.  This also clarifies the term "standby lawyer".  I wonder if Ryan is planning to "represent himself" at a joint trial, while in reality, Ammon's powerhouse legal team is doing the heavy lifting.  If the judge does not approve the late filing, is Ryan pretty much screwed?

[SpoonfulOSugar]

24 minutes ago, Howl said:

Thanks for that clarification.  This also clarifies the term "standby lawyer".  I wonder if Ryan is planning to "represent himself" at a joint trial, while in reality, Ammon's powerhouse legal team is doing the heavy lifting.  If the judge does not approve the late filing, is Ryan pretty much screwed?

Here is the OPB explanation of Ryan B's position:

Quote

 

“My plan has always been to have a joint trial with my brother Ammon because we have a joint defense agreement and strategy,” Ryan Bundy wrote.

Ryan Bundy added that he was not aware Ammon was seeking a later trial date because the Multnomah County Detention Center has kept the brothers from communicating.

 

http://www.opb.org/news/series/burns-oregon-standoff-bundy-militia-news-updates/bundy-ammon-ryan-later-trial-date/

My sense has been that the judge is seeking to be very even-handed in her rulings.  I don't think the lateness of the filing will count against him in this particular case.  I think there were other late filings on Friday too.

He has filed other things late (like a request to go to San Fran to argue an appeal issue) that I think did count against him.

The next date is Wednesday when they have a status hearing.

[Howl]

From opb.org

The judge will not allow a delay of the trial and it will begin Sept. 7th as scheduled. 

Quote

A federal judge says she will not delay the September trial for occupiers of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge occupation, despite defense objections.

Occupation organizer Ammon Bundy recently hired two new attorneys, and they requested more time to review hundreds of hours of video taken during the occupation and to file motions fighting his detention. His brother, Ryan Bundy, is representing himself and also joined the motion.

In court Wednesday, government prosecutors pointed out that it was Ammon Bundy himself who first pushed for a speedy trial. They argued that delaying the trial past Sept. 7, when U.S. District Court Judge Anna Brown hopes to begin, will cause logistical problems in Nevada.  

She [Judge Brown] said dozens of other defendants and their lawyers had no problems preparing for the September trial date.

Brown also said Ammon Bundy’s lawyers had failed to show that they were diligently preparing for the trial. She noted that “extraordinary accommodations” had already been made to ensure that the Bundy brothers can prepare for their trial while in detention.  Full text here.

re: bolded text

A little bit of a smack down for the lawyers, telegraphing that she means business and won't put up with BS from anyone.  

Edited July 6, 2016 by Howl

[SpoonfulOSugar]

2 hours ago, Howl said:

From opb.org

The judge will not allow a delay of the trial and it will begin Sept. 7th as scheduled. 

re: bolded text

A little bit of a smack down for the lawyers, telegraphing that she means business and won't put up with BS from anyone.  

Here's the OLive version:

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/07/federal_judge_denies_bundy_bro.html#incart_2box

I think I have a crush on the Judge.  She is no nonsense.

[Howl]

Thanks, @SpoonfulOSugar, that's a much meatier version of the events at the hearing.  I was reading some of the comments on the OregonLive article and stumbled across the link to the Guerilla Media Network - Home of the Pete Santilli show.  If y'all recall, Pete Santilli  is a self-styled "journalist" (and all-around nincompoop) who covered the Malheur occupation and is now one of the defendants.  The version of events on his Pete Santilli Show page reveal more drama.  This article was written by a Staff Writer, and not Pete Himself, as far as I can tell: 

Quote

The room was filled with animosity between Brown, Ammon Bundy, and Bundy’s attorney Marcus Mumford.  That tension quickly escalated into a dramatic confrontation between Bundy and the Judge, said one courtroom observer.  A shouting match ensued between the two that caused the Judge to lose her composure and briefly lose control of the courtroom when the gallery full of supporters joined Mr. Bundy in his reprimand of the Judge.

Ammon stood up and just started to speak when the Judge shouted at him to sit down. Speak to me through your attorney, she said.  She rose to her feet flailing her arms and was yelling at him —  Her face was pretty red and full of anger – She was visibly pissed off  – Ammon was yelling back at her telling her that it was unfair  that he was always being told to shut-up and sit down.  He was tired of being told to be quiet and having his right to be heard dismissed by her — Then it felt like the whole courtroom kind of  joined in the yelling — the Marshalls’ were all on their feet and took someone out — it got pretty crazy there for a second — 

To regain control of herself and the proceeding, Brown cleared the courtroom by calling a brief recess  and shortly after returned to continue with the “ex parte hearing”  without the Government or spectators.  That hearing is said to have gone better.

It isn't completely clear, but the italicized portion seems to be the version of events from the courtroom observer. There is more information in this post, discussing witnesses, how long it might (or might not) take to select a jury, and how long it might take for the prosecution to present its case and many other details.  Full text of article here.

Edited July 7, 2016 by Howl

[Howl]

I wanted to amend the post above -- thinking about Ammon's behavior took my mind off the brain-fry temps this morning while riding my bike.  Ammon's arrogant outspokenness probably comes from his noxious dad Cliven, but includes a large element of Mormon patriarchy (or any patriarchy) -- this sense of entitlement that one cannot, simply cannot tolerate being told to "sit down and shut up" by a woman.  

Ammon and perhaps Ryan have this silly assumption that they are going to control the narrative of this trial, because Pocket Constitution and First Amendment, in addition to the arrogant sense of entitlement referenced above. 

From here on out, the judge is going to have an iron grip on the proceedings. The peanut gallery will have to behave or be dismissed.  His lawyers are also going to be advising Ammon to sit down and SHUT THE F**K UP, because that kind of disrespect to a judge makes a super bad impression on the jury and annoys the judge.  

In addition, this is a Federal court, so order is maintained by Federal Marshals, correct?  I am guessing they are significantly more bad ass than a typical bailiff, should things get physical.    

Edited July 7, 2016 by Howl

[Howl]

According to OregonLive, Blaine Cooper has set in motion plea deals for both the Malheur occupation and the Bundy Ranch standoff.  
He has plead guilty to Federal conspiracy charges related to the Malheur Occupation. 

Quote

In Oregon, Cooper, 37, is expected to get credit for time served as part of a recommended sentence of six months in custody, followed by six months in either a halfway house or home detention. He's already been in custody nearly five months.

However, his tentative plea deal in Nevada potentially carries a heftier sentence:

Quote

Cooper is likely to plead guilty to at least one of the 11 offenses he's charged with stemming from the 2014 armed standoff with federal officers over grazing cattle on U.S. land near Cliven Bundy's ranch in southern Nevada. He's also expected to face a stiffer prison sentence in that case.

A tentative agreement, not yet formally accepted, would have Cooper pleading guilty to two charges in Nevada and facing a six-year sentence.

 Cooper was on video urging people to come to the refuge and bring weapons.  As he told the judge, 

Quote

"I could see how calling people out to a refuge armed could be intimidating,'' Cooper said.

Cooper, who has a prior domestic violence conviction, is prohibited from possessing a firearm.

As far as I can tell from this article, Cooper did not appear to have a weapon at the Malheur occupation and carried a camera instead; however, there is photo evidence of him holding a weapon during the Bundy ranch standoff.  Oops. 

OregonLive: http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/07/blaine_cooper_pleads_guilty_to.html

Edited July 9, 2016 by Howl

[nana sew dear]

The militia have been sending people out to  guard the LaVoy Finicum memorial on the highway.  There is talk of building a permanent structure but I'm not sure that they can get away with that.