Armed Protesters take over Oregon Federal Wildlife Refuge Part 2

[DaisyD]

On 8/1/2016 at 10:56 AM, 47of74 said:

Hell I'd go to Costco and buy a whole damn pallet's worth.  Between that and the campaign that Orange Hitler is running these days popcorn is definitely needed.

I'm calling him that from now on. Thank you!

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

We ended up taking a detour on our vacation, because of a fire blocking the freeway. We didn't get to see Bend or the Malheur Wildlife Refuge, but in John Day, we did get to see lots of yard signs for and against the recall of Grant County sheriff Glenn Palmer. I'm afraid I didn't think to count how many signs were "pro-recall" and how many signs were "anti-recall".

I also didn't bring up politics when we had lunch in Prairie City. Well, modern politics. Our server told us about how that area was pro-Dixie in the Civil War. Apparently it used to be named Dixie City. It was a nice lunch. I just wasn't in the mood to bring up controversy.

[Howl]

Thanks for boots (or sandals or flip flops) on the ground reporting from John Day. Sheriff Glenn Palmer is on shaky ground, but he's been veering into Sov Cit territory for awhile. 

Edited August 9, 2016 by Howl

[AmazonGrace]

http://koin.com/2016/08/05/judge-gives-special-accommodations-for-malheur-militia/
 

Quote

 

PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) – A federal judge says he allowed six of the defendants accused in the armed occupation of an Oregon wildlife refuge to meet with their attorneys — and sometimes with each other — at a special courthouse location after they complained about access to their attorneys.

U.S. District Judge Robert E. Jones said in the declaration Friday that he at first kept the meetings “off the record” to avoid publicity because the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office was concerned other inmates at the county jail would want similar treatment.

 

Uh, if it's okay for the Bundy bunch, then it should be okay for the others. Goose for the gander, sauce for the sander, all that equal rights yadda yadda. 

And everyone needs more snacks

[Howl]

On 8/9/2016 at 7:51 AM, AmazonGrace said:

http://koin.com/2016/08/05/judge-gives-special-accommodations-for-malheur-militia/
Uh, if it's okay for the Bundy bunch, then it should be okay for the others. Goose for the gander, sauce for the sander, all that equal rights yadda yadda. And everyone needs more snacks

I've been thinking about this.  I suspect it's because the judge (who refuses to delay the trial) does not want to impede preparations for a federal trial, thus closing an option for the defense to file for a mistrial.  

On the other hand, Ryan Bundy had a little scuffle with the jailers today.  They came to get him at 6 am to escort him to waiting (Federal?) marshals, to be taken out of the jail for part of the day.  The scuffle ensued when he refused to be handcuffed.  The jailers handled it, no problem.  The jailers don't know where he was going and the Marshals are mum on where they took him.  

Now here's the weird part.  Ryan was injured (bullet fragments still in his shoulder) during the traffic stop when Lavoy Finicum was killed.  These bullet fragments may be related to the rogue shots fired by the FBI.  If y'all recall, the FBI fired two bullets at the Finicum truck as it plowed into the snowbank or just after it stopped.  One bullet went through the roof of the truck and the other wasn't found.  FBI collected the brass and pretended they had fired no shots.  As noted by OregonLive

Quote

Ryan Bundy believes the bullet in his body may be connected to shots fired by FBI agents at the scene that day that they failed to disclose, Ammon Bundy said. The agents are under federal investigation....In a recording posted later on the Bundy Ranch Facebook, Ammon Bundy said his older brother wants control over the bullet and was worried that federal authorities would force him to have the surgery. Ryan Bundy was calm and offered no resistance to the deputies, Ammon Bundy said.

Ryan will have an administrative jail hearing in a few days and might lose some jail privileges.  

Edited August 10, 2016 by Howl

[47of74]

Ah Ryan C, man, in even more trouble now...

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2016/08/ryan_bundy_involved_in_scuffle.html

Oregon standoff defendant Ryan Bundy was involved in a physical confrontation with sheriff's deputies Tuesday morning after he refused to let them handcuff him to take him out of the downtown jail for part of the day, a Multnomah County jail spokesman said.

U.S. marshals were scheduled to transport Bundy about 6 a.m. from the Multnomah County Detention Center, said sheriff's Capt. Steve Alexander. He didn't know where Bundy was going.

When jail deputies went to Bundy's cell to escort him to the marshals, Bundy didn't want to go, Alexander said. Bundy argued with a sergeant, who was trying to handcuff him when Bundy "spun around" and the sergeant took him to the ground, Alexander said.

This time, Alexander said, Bundy is being written up for administrative violations for allegedly failing to follow orders, behaving in a "threatening" or "assaultive" manner and fighting with staff.

[Howl]

I bookmarked Bundy Court Sketches on FaceBook this morning.  I realized that whoever runs this page keeps close tabs on developments in all things related to the Malheur aftermath with the bonus of some screamingly funny sketches, so I'm going to stop searching OregonLive and OPB for updates.   

Link to sketches HERE and Bundy Court Sketches facebook page (with links to relevant articles and SovCit legal filings) updating all the crazy HERE. #YouCan'tMakeThisSh*tUp!

Kenneth Medenbach is is worried that the judge never took the proper oath and Ryan Bundy wants to know, "Who is King Judge?".   Oh, and Ryan got taken out of jail on a Federal Marshal's matter unrelated to whatever piece of something is still in his shoulder.  Ryan is still trying to come to terms with things not turning out the way he thought they should.  I mean REALLY not turning out the way he thought they should.  

The SovCit crazy is just beginning; this is just the tip of the iceberg.  

Spoiler alert: Jon Ritzheimer didn't die at Malheur Wildlife Refuge occupation. 

Jon Ritzheimer (anti-Islamic, anti-Semitic racist bigot), who filmed him own long monologue at the beginning of the Malheur occupation, talking about dying and saying goodbye to wife and kids, is pleading guilty.  This announcement was posted on facebook by his wife.   Apparently, he reviewed his Marine oath and values, and according to his wife, "He may not agree with the law as it is written from a constitutionality [sic] standpoint but he believes that, as it is written he is guilty."

This was reported by Maxine Bernstein at The Oregonian and the comments on her Twitter account are interesting.  Apparently Jon Ritzheimer receives some type of Veteran's disability payment, so people are wondering if that will stop while he's in prison, should be receive hard time.  Link to Maxine Bernstein's Twitter acct #oregonstandoff with comments here.
 

Edited August 12, 2016 by Howl

[DaisyD]

Due to some family bs, I happen to know that SS payments will stop during long incarceration (either 6 months or a year, I forget). It wouldn't surprise me to learn that VA benefits are the same way.

[Howl]

I'd love to see a chart showing how many of the anti-government occupiers were receiving some form of Federal funds/disability checks.  

[Howl]

Found a few more things that could be of interest to those following the post-occupation legal shenanigans.

First, a facebook page called Oregon Standoff Trials 

https://www.facebook.com/OregonStandoffTrials/

Quote

This group is to discuss and organize information on the upcoming #OregonStandoff trials. This is not a "support group" for the defendants. If is for news and information about the trials related to the 2016 Oregon Standoff at the Malheur Wildlife Refuge outside of Burn

It doesn't have a lot of snark factor, but the general silliness of the defendants provides the entertainment. 

On a related note, Oregon Standoff Trials has a link to Challenging the Rhetoric web site, which has named the Bundys and Bundy supporters Liar of Week. 

Quote

LIAR OF THE WEEK: BUNDY FAMILY AND SUPPORTERS FOR “BULLET” AND “BEATING” LIES

Lisa J.Ludwig, stand-by counsel for pro se co-defendant Ryan Bundy moves the Court for an extension of time to file motions as he has missed his deadline.

Why did he miss his deadline? Because Ryan Bundy threw a paranoid and arrogant fit and got himself into trouble. Not because his cell got rolled and his paperwork was askew.

Yet, the Bundy family and their supporters, even today, continue to perpetuate the lies.

Here are a few things for the record …

RYAN BUNDY’S OWN MOTION says that what is in his arm is a  “metal fragment” NOT a “bullet” as they all continue to publicly lament. Brother Ammon claimed the family has an x-ray showing it is a “bullet”. Where is that evidence to support their claims when the man with the shrapnel in his arm publicly files motions to the contrary?

If it were indeed a “bullet” why would Ryan Bundy not want it logged into evidence?

The motion that was filed also clearly shows that Ryan Bundy himself created the altercation that occurred when deputies came to cuff and collect him for transport. A trip mind you, that was not to a hospital for surgery as again, Bundy family members and supporters have claimed.

Lastly, there is ZERO mention in his new after-the-fact motion of him ever being “beaten” or even injured in the fracas.

Where is your fear of truth-telling coming from?

Shame on all of you who have perpetuated and continue to propagate such lies. Shame on all of you unwilling to stand against popularity status quos by calling out the truth loud and proud. Shame on those supporters who would rather whitewash information or share it blatantly unchecked.

Stocking up on snacks.  Jury selection begins Sept. 7 and that could take weeks, but there could be months of entertainment to follow.  Poor jurors.  I hope the seats in the jury box are comfy.  I sat as a juror for a 5-day trial and the seats were torture. 

Edited August 14, 2016 by Howl

[SpoonfulOSugar]

13 minutes ago, Howl said:

Jury selection begins Sept. 7 and that could take weeks

I know I have read somewhere the judge's timeline for the trial.  I *want* to say that the jury selection was 3 days.  I know she is not interested in drawing this out at all.

Also a good starting point is #OregonStandoff on Twitter.  Some of the sites listed link to/from there.

Edited:

Quote

U.S. District Judge Anna J. Brown said she expects jury selection to last three days, starting Sept. 7, and opening statements by lawyers would tentatively begin the following week, on Tuesday, Sept. 13.

"I will conduct voir dire,'' the judge said. "All the questions will come from me.''

Oregon Live story

[Howl]

4 hours ago, SpoonfulOSugar said:

I know I have read somewhere the judge's timeline for the trial.  I *want* to say that the jury selection was 3 days.  I know she is not interested in drawing this out at all.

Also a good starting point is #OregonStandoff on Twitter.  Some of the sites listed link to/from there.

Edited:

Oregon Live story

Thanks for the update @SpoonfulOSugar.  I'd better lay in a supply of snacks sooner than I thought.  I do expect some tantrum-ing in the courtroom from at least one of the defendants.  

Oregon Standoff Trials also has a wordpress page with many tabs related to all things Malheur standoff as well as a tab that includes other standoffs, including those that are brewing.  This article discusses Scott Klatt, the comedic genius behind the Bundy Court Sketches and his take on Ryan Payne. 

The Sketchy Unraveling of Bundy Co-Defendant Ryan Payne According to Comedian Artist Scott Klat

The wordpress home for Oregon Standoff Trials: https://oregonstandofftrials.wordpress.com/

Such a treasure trove for those sucked into this vortex of crazy.  This is strictly black ops, going deep.  We're beyond the reach of rescue ferrets.  

[Howl]

Just an odd little item, but apparently there is a 27th defendant whose name has not been unsealed.  

[AmazonGrace]

http://koin.com/2016/08/12/malheur-defendant-files-lawsuit-against-judge/

 

PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) – An Oregon standoff defendant who has had multiple clashes in court with the presiding judge has now filed a lawsuit against her.

The Oregonian/OregonLive reports that in a lawsuit filed Wednesday against U.S. District Judge Anna Brown and prosecuting attorneys in his case, Kenneth Medenbach takes accuses Brown of failing to take an oath of office.

 

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2016/08/oregon_standoff_defendant_chal.html#incart_2box

Medenbach on Wednesday filed his complaint pro se, representing himself and 26 others involved in standoff-related cases. The suit demands that all plaintiffs in jail be released and that all pending criminal matters against standoff defendants be dismissed. Each plaintiff seeks no more than $100,000 in punitive damages for the time they've spent in custody and no more than $50,000 each for lost wages, Medenbach wrote in the complaint.

8 hours ago, Howl said:

Just an odd little item, but apparently there is a 27th defendant whose name has not been unsealed.  

There are 27 plaintiffs in the Medenbach lawsuit.

http://media.oregonlive.com/portland_impact/other/medenbach suit_Redacted.pdf

Edited August 16, 2016 by AmazonGrace

[Howl]

Texas Scott Willingham is the 27th, then.  This whole thing makes me so mad and then sad.  Most or all of these people will do hard time, causing a lot of suffering to a lot of people, primarily spouses and children, who will be struggling along financially and emotionally while their spouse/father is incarcerated.  They will be convicted felons when they get out, making their lives just that much harder.  Yes, I know that most, if not all of them, were marginal SovCit gun humpers to begin with -- weak people with poor judgement (or various other personality disorders) seeking meaning in their lives. 

My hope is that the spectacle of the Malheur and Bundy Ranch defendants held in jail, taking plea deals with prison sentences and  (hopefully) the leaders getting stiff prison sentences scares the crap out of  the  blathering Sov Cit, fake militia, marginal government-hating hanger on losers, who will be too skeered to even think about doing something similar.   

[AmazonGrace]

http://www.smobserved.com/story/2016/08/17/news/first-criminal-sentenced-for-armed-takeover-of-malheur-wildlife-refuge/1781.html

 

Corey Lequieu has become the first defendant sentenced for the armed takeover the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in January.

U.S. District Judge Anna J. Brown sentenced Lequieu to 2 ½ years in prison followed by 3 years of supervised release in the federal conspiracy case. He must also pay restitution, in an amount to be determined later.

Lequieu, 46, was the first of the 26 defendants to plead guilty. He admitted to impeding federal employees through intimidation, threats, or force.

[Howl]

The Bundy lawyers have filed a motion to allow the presentation of an "adverse possession" defense at trial.  You can read a copy of the entire motion at scribd.com here.  The Bundy's think that if they can just make the jury understand the philosophy behind their actions, everything will be fine.  The fake militia paramilitary thug scene will be harder to explain away, but what the heck. 

According to wikipedia:

Quote

Adverse possession is a method of acquiring title to real property by possession for a statutory period under certain conditions, viz: proof of non-permissive use which is actual, open and notorious, exclusive, adverse, and continuous for the statutory period.  It is governed by statute concerning the title to real property (land and the fixed structures built upon it). By adverse possession, title to another's real property can be acquired without compensation, by holding the property in a manner that conflicts with the true owner's rights for a specified period. For example, squatter's rights are a specific form of adverse possession.

The Bundys are claiming that the the occupation was an adverse possession; after all, no one was at work on the day they occupied the refuge and the government doesn't have a legal title to the land.  Yeah, the whole adverse possession thing can be so SovCit. 

Here's an example of a SovCit adverse possession scam that didn't go well, but highlights the SovCit strategy. From the HUD Web site:

Sovereign Citizen Sentenced to Theft of Government Property in Rental Home Scam

Quote

Devitoe Farmer, a self-proclaimed Sovereign Citizen, illegally took possession of three properties owned by the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) and located in Memphis, Tennessee.   Farmer’s scheme was discovered when employees of a property management firm contracted by HUD to maintain the properties discovered “For Sale” signs removed, locks changed, and evidence of the property being occupied.  When questioned, one individual provided copies of the lease agreement made with Farmer.   Another property was occupied by a relative of Farmer.  When asked by investigators to provide proof of ownership of the properties, Farmer provided documents declaring that he was a sovereign citizen. 

Farmer filed quit claim deeds to himself with the Shelby County Register of Deeds, along with a Return of Real Property in Attempt to Establish Adverse Possession Without Color of Title Section 5-103, 201 and an Affidavit of Non-Abandonment.  Farmer also filed an Affidavit of Truth with the Shelby County Register of Deeds. 

The document stated Farmer was a “natural, freeborn Sovereign” who voluntarily chose to “comply with the man-made laws which serve to bring harmony to society,” but that “no such laws, nor their enforcers, have any authority” over him.  The Affidavit of Truth also claimed that federal jurisdiction was essentially limited to its territories, the District of Columbia, military bases, and federal agencies located with the states.  In the affidavit, Farmer claimed, since he did not reside in any of these federal territories, that “no U.S. federal government statutes or regulations have any authority over me”.

On May 6, 2013, Farmer plead guilty to three counts of theft of government property, for taking possession of three HUD owned properties with a combined value of $172,000.  On November 5, 2013 Farmer was sentenced to twenty seven months imprisonment and twenty four months of probation.

Considering the extent and sophistication of the scam, I'm a bit shocked at the mimimal prison time (a little over two years). 

Edited August 19, 2016 by Howl

[Howl]

SovCits at National Liberty Alliance are hoping to flood the court with writs of habeas corpus or something. They have been trying to gather affidavits of factual information (?) from anyone who traveled to the refuge during the occupation, which they will use to flood the court to delay jury selection.  

This quote is from a long and rambling email from Ollie Smith that doesn't clarify exactly how these affidavits and pictures can be used to delay jury selection.  

Quote

We need to shut the jury selection “business as usual” down. These clowns should not be controlling the outcome of this trial with their handpicked stooges. The filtering process in the jury selection needs to be constitutional, with just a few key questions to determine if they have a conflict of interest, related some way, prejudice some way and physically able to serve. A side from that, go to the next person. We the People want a mixed bag of people in this jury box. We want to shut down the psychological profiling, the intimidation or coercion involved in the process by exposing it. We don’t want to see a repeat of the Joe Robertson hung jury case in Missoula, MT where they went back in there and retried the poor man.

So, again. We can’t do anything well without documents. Documents and pictures drive a case. If we have information by a witness – a signed document; that is what works in the court. We need all that we can get and we need them quickly! We hit that 24 day mark, and we are done! End of story. We want to overwhelm them with so much information that they might be forced to push that jury selection date back.

Shawna Cox is arguing against the inclusion of testimony from a visitor to the occupation saw her carrying a holstered gun in the kitchen.  In this instance, she has a reasonable point.  The person was initially unable to identify her correctly from a photo.   

David Fry MAY be setting up a mental health defense. 

Edited August 20, 2016 by Howl

[clueliss]

Have we seen this?  The Koch Brothers are tied into this.

https://thinkprogress.org/the-koch-brothers-are-now-funding-the-bundy-land-seizure-agenda-901b90b3e1c6#.fue9m6anf

[bashfulpixie]

12 hours ago, clueliss said:

Have we seen this?  The Koch Brothers are tied into this.

https://thinkprogress.org/the-koch-brothers-are-now-funding-the-bundy-land-seizure-agenda-901b90b3e1c6#.fue9m6anf

Of course they are.  Why wouldn't those evil assholes be sponsoring taking down the government?  Hasn't that been their goal for years?

[Howl]

14 hours ago, clueliss said:

Have we seen this?  The Koch Brothers are tied into this.

https://thinkprogress.org/the-koch-brothers-are-now-funding-the-bundy-land-seizure-agenda-901b90b3e1c6#.fue9m6anf

Great find, and hadn't seen it.  

On the legal front, screening questionnaires have been sent to the jury pool and returned.

On 8/14/2016 at 8:24 AM, SpoonfulOSugar said:

I know I have read somewhere the judge's timeline for the trial.  I *want* to say that the jury selection was 3 days.  I know she is not interested in drawing this out at all.

Quote

From OregonLive, August 24th

-- After removing potential jurors for bias or hardship based on answers to written questionnaires, there are 263 jurors remaining in the jury pool to be called for jury selection, starting Sept. 7. The judge plans to call 30 potential jurors on Sept. 7, 60 on Sept. 8 and 60 on Sept. 9. The judge said she believes the number is "more than sufficient'' to pick a jury of 12, plus eight alternates.

 My fear continues to be that some potential jurors strongly in favor of the defendants will lie in order to get on the jury, resulting in a hung jury.   

There was a major mistake by the Federal prosecutors that allowed private fb information to be available to those who should not have seen it.   This is a major, major mistake. 

Also, it's possible some SovCit types will be leafleting potential jurors as they show up for the jury pool, along with whatever other shenanigans they can come up with, to delay the trial.  Judge Brown has already set guidelines for the removal of rowdy spectators and defendants. 

Again, tons of information on current legal proceedings in Judge Brown's courtroom and Judge Jones' courtroom at both of these facebook pages: 

Bundy Court Sketches

Oregon Standoff Trials

Bundy Court Sketches has a lot of information, in addition to the sketches. 

Judge Brown's courtroom is very small and will be packed with the 8 defendants and their lawyers, or in Ryan Bundy's case, his standby and a hand-picked paralegal with a shady past.   Roger Root is actually able to practice law in Rhode Island, but can't be Ryan's lawyer; Ryan is considered indigent.  To get around that, Root can be a "paralegal" and sit at the defense table, but will not be allowed to address the court.

Quote

OregonLive, August 24th: 

Two years ago, [Root] told Montana's Sidney Herald that he was turning away from a youth filled with racism and anti-Semitism to be a champion for individual liberties....Roots' website [rogerroots.com] proclaims, "My client is liberty!'' It also says, "Few lawyers are prepared to challenge the modern governmental leviathan.  I view the struggle against government as a lawyer's highest duty.''

Ryan has pissed off Judge Brown to the extent that he has until noon on Monday to show why he should be allowed to continue representing himself: 

OregonLive, August 24th: Federal judge to Ryan Bundy: 'Open defiance' of court authority shows he's unfit to serve as own lawyer

Quote

"Permitting Ryan Bundy to continue to represent himself would create an unacceptable risk that he would continue to flout this Court's orders; further impede the efficient administration of justice in these proceedings; and conduct himself in a manner at the trial beginning September 7, 2016, that would prejudice the fair administration of justice, the government, and the co-defendants who each have their own right to a fair trial,'' the judge wrote.

She ordered Bundy to explain in writing by noon Monday why she shouldn't terminate his right to represent himself and appoint his standby counsel Lisa Ludwig as his lawyer. That would restrict Bundy from standing to question the judge directly during court proceedings or filing his own motions.

 

Edited August 26, 2016 by Howl

[47of74]

It looks like ryan c; idiot gets to continue representing himself for just a little bit longer yet;

oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/08/despite_misgivings_federal_jud.html

Quote

Despite Ryan Bundy's repeated "contempt for the court process'' and failure to grant a blanket assurance that he'll follow the court's orders during trial, U.S. District Judge Anna J. Brown said she'd give him "the benefit of the doubt'' and allow him to continue to represent himself.

The judge also said co-defendant Kenneth Medenbach could continue to act as his own lawyer, but Medenbach promised to adhere to the judge's rulings.

Though the judge said it sounded as if Bundy was "reserving'' his right to follow court rulings based on his own interpretation of the law, she said she'd give him the benefit of the doubt.

She cautioned him one more time: He'd be subject to immediate revocation of his right to represent himself if he raises any issue before the jury that the court has ruled was inadmissible.

How much you all wanna wager he slips up and winds up getting his pro se rights revoked?

[Howl]

Yup, it's getting close to court time.  Tomorrow (Tuesday, Sept. 6th) is the last pre-trial hearing.  Jury selection begins on Wednesday.

Ryan Bundy, proving to everyone that he is, indeed, ryan c; idot, has filed a motion claiming that  he is a defendant named in error, because he was entrapped by a law enforcement agent and the gubmint can't prove he wasn't.  So there!

Oops, for some reason, the name of law enforcement agent who would be key to proving Ryan's case was omitted! I'm sure this small point won't be lost on the judge. 

From the motion filed by Ryan: 

Quote

The Defendant engaged in the alleged conduct charged in the indictment solely because he was induced to do so by a law enforcement agent using persuasion or other means was likely to cause persons to commit the offenses. The conduct of the law enforcement agent went beyond merely affording the Defendant an opportunity to commit the offenses alleged. 

The Defendant will make a prima facie case at a pre-trial hearing that he was entrapped in the instant case. The United States Government will not be able to disprove this beyond a reasonable doubt.

If the Government is unable to disprove the defense of entrapment beyond a reasonable doubt, the remedy to be imposed by the trial court is dismissal of the indictment with prejudice.

Ryan, honey, this won't fly, because it's just, you know, crazy talk.  If you are a defendant by error, it implies you are charged with doing something you didn't do and a terrible mistake has been made, or the law doesn't apply to you in this instance.   If you say you were entrapped, you are admitting you did something, but it's something that you wouldn't have done by you own volition*.  Those are two different things; neither apply to you.   However, this isn't the crux of your point, is it? Although I'm sure you enjoying presenting your own little conundrum to the court, it's like watching someone schussing down a green slope, feeling like they own the mountain, oblivious to the massive avalanche bearing down from the top. 

*Disclaimer: I'm not a degreed law professional, and I don't play one on TV!  

On 8/30/2016 at 9:51 PM, 47of74 said:

It looks like ryan c; idiot gets to continue representing himself for just a little bit longer yet;

oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/08/despite_misgivings_federal_jud.html

How much you all wanna wager he slips up and winds up getting his pro se rights revoked?

I'm going to give him one, maybe two days at the most.  What are the chances he won't sit down and shut up when Judge Brown tells him to and gets kicked out of the court room?  

Sadly, the Malheur Wildlife Refuge headquarters will remain closed for the duration of the trial.  People can go to the refuge and watch birds, but the headquarters and visitor center will not be open. 

Edited September 6, 2016 by Howl

[47of74]

56 minutes ago, Howl said:

Yup, it's getting close to court time.  Tomorrow (Tuesday, Sept. 6th) is the last pre-trial hearing.  Jury selection begins on Wednesday.

Ryan Bundy, proving to everyone that he is, indeed, ryan c; idot, has filed a motion claiming that  he is a defendant named in error, because he was entrapped by a law enforcement agent and the gubmint can't prove he wasn't.  So there!

Oops, for some reason, the name of law enforcement agent who would be key to proving Ryan's case was omitted! I'm sure this small point won't be lost on the judge. 

From the motion filed by Ryan: 

Ryan, honey, this won't fly, because it's just, you know, crazy talk.  If you are a defendant by error, it implies you are charged with doing something you didn't do and a terrible mistake has been made, or the law doesn't apply to you in this instance.   If you say you were entrapped, you are admitting you did something, but it's something that you wouldn't have done by you own volition*.  Those are two different things; neither apply to you.   However, this isn't the crux of your point, is it? Although I'm sure you enjoying presenting your own little conundrum to the court, it's like watching someone schussing down a green slope, feeling like they own the mountain, oblivious to the massive avalanche bearing down from the top. 

*Disclaimer: I'm not a degreed law professional, and I don't play one on TV!  

I'm going to give him one, maybe two days at the most.  What are the chances he won't sit down and shut up when Judge Brown tells him to and gets kicked out of the court room?  

Sadly, the Malheur Wildlife Refuge headquarters will remain closed for the duration of the trial.  People can go to the refuge and watch birds, but the headquarters and visitor center will not be open. 

I'm two weeks in to law school and I'm most definitely not a degreed law professional either. and I sure as heck don't play one on TV.

I wonder how long it will be until the Judge gets tired of the antics of one ryan c; idiot and revokes his pro se status.  At the rate he's going it probably won't be too much longer

Edited September 6, 2016 by 47of74

[Howl]

46 minutes ago, 47of74 said:

I'm two weeks in to law school and I'm most definitely not a degreed law professional either. and I sure as heck don't play one on TV.

I wonder how long it will be until the Judge gets tired of the antics of one ryan c; idiot and revokes his pro se status.  At the rate he's going it probably won't be too much longer

Please give us insights if this is discussed with your fellow students or addressed in your classes.  Also let us know if you know of legal web sites or blogs that are following the trial that would have discussions of interest to a layperson.   Best wishes for a most excellent semester.