Erika Shupe *glower pout* Large Families on Purpose Part 5

[19 cats and counting]

Re: Transportation.  As long as the job does not require a car (and puts it in the job description) then as long as the employee has reliable transportation to and from work (parents, public transportation, cabs/uber, friends, walking, bike, etc) then it's honestly not the employer's business how they get to work.  Maybe an employer would take transportation concerns into scheduling (ie not scheduling a shift to end after the last bus leaves) but it should nto be a factor on whether or not the employer offers the job.

[THERetroGamerNY]

Erika doesn't have transportation issues, because all the kids are trapped indoors, being puppet-raised with jelly bean vitality.

[Hane]

15 hours ago, Gimme a Free RV said:

I tutored in a high school math class a few years ago.  These students were struggling academically.  One of the kids said his dad told him he couldn't get his driver's license until he brought home straight As.  This same kid put his head on his desk and slept through every class.  I felt sorry for him because his dad placed such an unrealistic, practically unachievable goal on him.  It had the opposite motivational effect.

Did the poor kid have a sleep disorder? Did his father keep him up too late studying every night?

[Gimme a Free RV]

I think the deal was that he was working for his father...to the point that he would not have had much time to study, even if he HAD been self-motivated to achieve.  I think this and the fact that his dad's challenge was so overwhelming led him just to give up.

On a slightly different note, I think, if I were a teacher and could get away with it (and knew that the student did not have a sleeping disorder or other health concern), I would start marking a student absent when sleeping through class, habitually.  I know some will disagree with this but in my opinion, if you're taking your nap in my class, you're not "there."

[Jingerbread]

11 hours ago, OnceUponATime said:

Yes that is true, but some people can not afford to buy a car before they have a job.

I'm currently unemployed and this is a major problem for me. Where I am public transport gets me to a lot of places. I refuse to lie about my ownership of a car (I don't have one, I also say I'm willing to purchase a car if needed once I have a job). I can't afford to buy a car now without a promise of a job. Nor do I want to, because I would prefer to use public transport (even if I hate it). And yes my honesty about this may have cost me jobs. TBH while that sucks for me, it's more their problem. If they think the public transport is unreliable I personally think the companies should be lobbying the public transport companies/government for better transport. Plus, if I have turned up to my interview on time using public transport, then to me that shows it is reliable enough to get me to their business place using that method. A car does not guarantee people turning up on time (hello traffic jams), and to be honest it is annoying for companies to try and imply to me that it does.

 

If you're near enough to public transit that it's reliable, that counts as reliable transit.  I've lived in places where reliable transit means either personal vehicle or public transit, but "someone else will drive me" generally hasn't been accepted since you have to hope that that other person doesn't flake, and while you may trust them, an employer doesn't know them and won't be interviewing them to make sure they're dedicated to making sure you get to work on time everyday, no matter what it takes.  I know only having another person driving has cost me a job I really wanted when I wasn't anywhere near transit, but to be fair to the employer, they really shouldn't have to interview another person or just hope really hard if they have another candidate who can make sure they get themselves there every day.  

Interviewing people sucks.  My spouse's team is doing it right now, and I know they really don't want to have go go through this process again in a few months if someone's "reliable transit" right now is someone else who ends up not being reliable, and so they have to fire the person for coming in late often (the team's job requires absolutely not being late because video conferences with big wigs can't be put on hold because someone's mom or roommate took another job), and interview again.  So, even though I lost my dream job, I still think it's fair for an employer to evaluate how someone will get to work when deciding.  

No one here would call it unfair if an employer required a degree that a knowledgable candidate who could do the job wasn't able to take the time off to go get, no matter how much that candidate knows about the job and could do it.  It would be seen as the person's choice not to get a degree.  Why is transportation choices or abilities different?

[Hera]

18 hours ago, GenerationCedarchip said:

Okay - I asked DH for more details.  He just remembered the guy as very awkward, but nothing was said about Mommy Dearest.  But yes, she clearly thought she was going to be an active participant in the meeting.

Can't imagine why a dude whose mother goes with him on job interviews would be awkward.  So, did he get the job?  If not, did she call and ask why? If yes, did she try to come to work on his first day to meet everyone? 

[elliha]

2 hours ago, Gimme a Free RV said:

I think the deal was that he was working for his father...to the point that he would not have had much time to study, even if he HAD been self-motivated to achieve.  I think this and the fact that his dad's challenge was so overwhelming led him just to give up.

On a slightly different note, I think, if I were a teacher and could get away with it (and knew that the student did not have a sleeping disorder or other health concern), I would start marking a student absent when sleeping through class, habitually.  I know some will disagree with this but in my opinion, if you're taking your nap in my class, you're not "there."

A guy in my class in school fell asleep during class. The teacher walked up to his seat and said "O---, THIS is geography class" screaming out "this" extra loudly and at the same time hitting the table he was sitting at with her fist. He woke up and jumped about a meter in the air. We all laughed our heads off. The tables were of a construction which meant that hitting it like that made a loud noise and he got it right in his ear so it was not a pleasant wake up but if you don't want that you shouldn't fall asleep in class.

[ofDany]

I was in a class with a guy who fell asleep regularly in class due to a medical condition. I can't remember what it was called. Anyhow at least twice he fell out of his chair/knocked over the desk etc. The teacher was mean to him about it too. I felt bad for him because he was showing up every day, but due to his condition he wasn't learning anything.

[Coy Koi]

20 minutes ago, elliha said:

A guy in my class in school fell asleep during class. The teacher walked up to his seat and said "O---, THIS is geography class" screaming out "this" extra loudly and at the same time hitting the table he was sitting at with her fist. He woke up and jumped about a meter in the air. We all laughed our heads off. The tables were of a construction which meant that hitting it like that made a loud noise and he got it right in his ear so it was not a pleasant wake up but if you don't want that you shouldn't fall asleep in class.

One of my teachers would always hit the table if someone fell asleep too, only he took off his shoe and used that. That's one class I never slept in!

[GenerationCedarchip]

1 hour ago, Hera said:

Can't imagine why a dude whose mother goes with him on job interviews would be awkward.  So, did he get the job?  If not, did she call and ask why? If yes, did she try to come to work on his first day to meet everyone? 

No, this poor guy didn't get the job.

[feministxtian]

I slept through my senior year of high school...fortunately, I had no problem passing my classes. I only needed 2 classes to graduate but I was required to take 6. I was working part time, singing in a band, and was BUSY outside of school. Fortunately, my teachers were cool with it. I went to a VERY SMALL Catholic high school, there were 46 kids in my graduating class, and we all had the same teachers from 8th to 12th grades. 

[pnwgypsy]

I was the kid who was ticked at myself if I got anything less than an A...& I didn't get many lower than that. The fam didn't have to exert any pressure incentive on me. I knew academics were my ticket out of my hellhole hometown. More than once I washed my report card in my jeans pocket & id just tell my mom I got all A's again & to check the honor roll in the local paper. I was valedictorian, a goal I set for myself in kindergarten. Yup, I was that kid.

In college, I realized I wasn't hideous & boys liked me. Still graduated with honor from the honors college tho.

[KylieJenner]

On March 4, 2016 at 7:32 PM, Gimme a Free RV said:

I tutored in a high school math class a few years ago.  These students were struggling academically.  One of the kids said his dad told him he couldn't get his driver's license until he brought home straight As.  This same kid put his head on his desk and slept through every class.  I felt sorry for him because his dad placed such an unrealistic, practically unachievable goal on him.  It had the opposite motivational effect.

Wow his drivers license? My parents never treated getting your DL as a "privilege" it was an absolute necessity. My dad always said "I can't remember the last time I used long division, but I remember the last time I drove a car." I mean yeah, if we had acted up or did something stupid, we weren't allowed to use the car to go out with our friends. But we could still drive to school, practices, work, church etc. It was very important to my parents for us to get as much driving experience as possible before heading out on our own. Not letting your kid drive just seems irresponsible.

Yes, I'm also looking at you Erica.

[Jingerbread]

7 hours ago, KylieJenner said:

Wow his drivers license? My parents never treated getting your DL as a "privilege" it was an absolute necessity. My dad always said "I can't remember the last time I used long division, but I remember the last time I drove a car." I mean yeah, if we had acted up or did something stupid, we weren't allowed to use the car to go out with our friends. But we could still drive to school, practices, work, church etc. It was very important to my parents for us to get as much driving experience as possible before heading out on our own. Not letting your kid drive just seems irresponsible.

Yes, I'm also looking at you Erica.

I disagree.  Not only are there a lot of places where cars aren't necessary, a lot of families don't have a vehicle available for kids to drive, or the money for the extra insurance to add a teenager to a vehicle, and a lot of families are worrying and hoping that the vehicle they do have won't need any more maintenance for a while and nix all unnecessary driving.  It's a privilege to be able to hand a teen the keys to a vehicle with proper insurance and the knowledge that you'll be okay if they wreck it.  Even if you can scrape together insurance, not everyone can pay the deductible, or afford time off if the damaged vehicle is their only one.  It's really not as easy as you think for all people.  Don't look down on people who can't.

When I was a kid in a small town, it was common for parents to not let their kids get licenses until they proved they were responsible enough, sometimes by maintaining a minimum grade level, sometimes by getting a job to help cover insurance, or other things.  When I was growing up, it was very, very common for kids to not see ourselves as entitled.  I'm pretty shocked at how much a lot of adults these days think that teenagers are outright entitled to everything.

[feministxtian]

my parents (way back in the dark ages) didn't buy me a car...I was part of a group of kids, that although we were wild, we all went to school, had afterschool jobs, and our money is what financed our "fun", along with school activities, clothes, etc. I skipped my senior trip because I sure as hell wasn't going to ask for the money (and I really didn't want to go). I did get a car in high school though...because I had saved up money and bought it from a lady I babysat for...a whole 300 bucks. I faithfully paid my father the 16 dollars a month for the insurance too. Dad paid for the initial license fees...it was my "Christmas gift". 

My kids? Nope, none of them got a car. 2 of the kids got their license at 16, the last one was 19 before he got his. 

[crawfishgirl]

19 hours ago, Jingerbread said:

If you're near enough to public transit that it's reliable, that counts as reliable transit.  I've lived in places where reliable transit means either personal vehicle or public transit, but "someone else will drive me" generally hasn't been accepted since you have to hope that that other person doesn't flake, and while you may trust them, an employer doesn't know them and won't be interviewing them to make sure they're dedicated to making sure you get to work on time everyday, no matter what it takes.  I know only having another person driving has cost me a job I really wanted when I wasn't anywhere near transit, but to be fair to the employer, they really shouldn't have to interview another person or just hope really hard if they have another candidate who can make sure they get themselves there every day.  

Interviewing people sucks.  My spouse's team is doing it right now, and I know they really don't want to have go go through this process again in a few months if someone's "reliable transit" right now is someone else who ends up not being reliable, and so they have to fire the person for coming in late often (the team's job requires absolutely not being late because video conferences with big wigs can't be put on hold because someone's mom or roommate took another job), and interview again.  So, even though I lost my dream job, I still think it's fair for an employer to evaluate how someone will get to work when deciding.  

No one here would call it unfair if an employer required a degree that a knowledgable candidate who could do the job wasn't able to take the time off to go get, no matter how much that candidate knows about the job and could do it.  It would be seen as the person's choice not to get a degree.  Why is transportation choices or abilities different?

I worked in HR for many years for two different large companies, and while we could ask the applicant if they had reliable transportation, we would never ask for transportation details during the interview.  The theory was that it could be considered discriminatory against certain groups who historically did not have the same financial resources as others.  

This link is from the Society for HR Mgmt regarding their guidance on how to address this issue:  http://www.shrm.org/templatestools/hrqa/pages/cms_020894.aspx

 

Edited:  this link doesn't seem to be working correctly, so here is the text from the link:

Interviewing: Can a recruiter ask a candidate, Do you own a car?

 

 

  5/31/2012

Permissions

      

 

In most cases, no. The question of whether an individual owns a car is irrelevant, unless the position requires an employee to use his or her personal vehicle to travel between worksites, or other locations, as a primary job duty.

Whether candidates use public transportation, bike, carpool, or drive to work really has no bearing on how they will perform in the job. Therefore, the mode of transportation used to get to work is not what an employer should be considering when making a selection decision.

A recruiter asking an applicant, “Do you have a car?” often intends to find out if this person will have attendance issues. An applicant’s ability to be at work on time every day definitely is a job-related concern. But the question the recruiter asked doesn’t really obtain the information he or she was seeking.

When you develop interview questions, think about what kind of answers you may receive when asking each question. Avoid questions that have more to do with personal lifestyles than job experience. Phrase the question so that the answer will describe on-the-job qualities instead of personal qualities, and if the question is not related to performance on the job, it should not be asked.

Below are a few sample questions that may help assess if an applicant has outside commitments or transportation issues, which could negatively affect their attendance at work. Choose questions that best reflect your company’s hours of work, overtime and attendance policies.

Do you have reliable transportation to and from work?

What shifts or days are you available to work?

Our second shift is from 2 p.m. to 10 p.m. Monday through Friday. Are you available to work this shift every weekday?

We do have a mandatory overtime policy. Required overtime could extend your workday to 10-hour days and/or may require working on Saturdays as needed. Are you available to work this type of overtime schedule?

 Would you be available to work overtime on Saturdays?

Do you foresee any problems with working a third shift schedule?

When overtime is required, will transportation be a problem?

 

- See more at: http://www.shrm.org/templatestools/hrqa/pages/cms_020894.aspx#sthash.phvecM0H.dpuf

[THERetroGamerNY]

Oh no, Erika! The Sunday comics are tomorrow! Whatever will we as a nation do???!!! Beetle Bailey is the antiChrist!!!

[Coy Koi]

24 minutes ago, THERetroGamerNY said:

Oh no, Erika! The Sunday comics are tomorrow! Whatever will we as a nation do???!!!

Probably all frantically start building snowwomen rather than snowmen, as apparently the comics advocate. Which is obviously a dangerous message. Keep those icewhores away from my child!

[Antimony]

6 hours ago, Jingerbread said:

I disagree.  Not only are there a lot of places where cars aren't necessary, a lot of families don't have a vehicle available for kids to drive, or the money for the extra insurance to add a teenager to a vehicle, and a lot of families are worrying and hoping that the vehicle they do have won't need any more maintenance for a while and nix all unnecessary driving.  It's a privilege to be able to hand a teen the keys to a vehicle with proper insurance and the knowledge that you'll be okay if they wreck it.  Even if you can scrape together insurance, not everyone can pay the deductible, or afford time off if the damaged vehicle is their only one.  It's really not as easy as you think for all people.  Don't look down on people who can't.

When I was a kid in a small town, it was common for parents to not let their kids get licenses until they proved they were responsible enough, sometimes by maintaining a minimum grade level, sometimes by getting a job to help cover insurance, or other things.  When I was growing up, it was very, very common for kids to not see ourselves as entitled.  I'm pretty shocked at how much a lot of adults these days think that teenagers are outright entitled to everything.

Going to disagree here. In my home state, it becomes much more difficult to get a license past age 18. There are more requirements and it's more expensive. (However, public schools in my state do supply free in car drivers ed, so there is that.) 

Mostly, however, I say this because I know people my age (millenials) who can't drive, are now overwhelmed by the idea of learning out and it really hampers their life. For instance, many competitive college teams travel and for us, we had to drive ourselves. The school provided vehicles and the insurance on them but we needed enough people to drive to make the shifts safe  (nobody driving for more than 3 hours at a time). This gets hard when you have adults that never learned to drive. 

Worse, I guess, is thay I'd be utterly terrified if I didn't have the knowledge to drive my parents to the clinic. My father does a lot of construction and occasionally slips up. He's got a great pain tolerance and is a vetearn but there have been times my mom has had to take him while he sat in the passenger seat stopping the blood. If she wasn't home and I had never learned to drive, I'd feel terrible. We live out in the boondoggles too, so waiting for an ambulance there can take double time. 

Providing a car isn't necessary. Paying the insurance for an extra driver isn't the,  but never letting a kid learn to drive terrifies me because where I come from, it's a life skill. 

[KylieJenner]

9 hours ago, Jingerbread said:

I disagree.  Not only are there a lot of places where cars aren't necessary, a lot of families don't have a vehicle available for kids to drive, or the money for the extra insurance to add a teenager to a vehicle, and a lot of families are worrying and hoping that the vehicle they do have won't need any more maintenance for a while and nix all unnecessary driving.  It's a privilege to be able to hand a teen the keys to a vehicle with proper insurance and the knowledge that you'll be okay if they wreck it.  Even if you can scrape together insurance, not everyone can pay the deductible, or afford time off if the damaged vehicle is their only one.  It's really not as easy as you think for all people.  Don't look down on people who can't.

When I was a kid in a small town, it was common for parents to not let their kids get licenses until they proved they were responsible enough, sometimes by maintaining a minimum grade level, sometimes by getting a job to help cover insurance, or other things.  When I was growing up, it was very, very common for kids to not see ourselves as entitled.  I'm pretty shocked at how much a lot of adults these days think that teenagers are outright entitled to everything.

It's different if the family can't afford to do so. I am just saying this in regard to a student whose parents won't let him get his DL because of his grades. Driving is very important where I live, as there are limited public transportation options, so a car is a must for adults.

I'm not at all entitled, so sorry if I sound that way. if a family has the resources to let their children learn how to drive, and they live in an area where a car is a necessity, then they have no excuse. The parent can even ride in the passenger seat at all times if their kid can't be trusted in a car alone. But again, only if the family is financially able to do so.

[MakeitSew]

I personally think that driving is a hugely important skill if your lifestyle is such that driving a car is a frequent necessity. I would rather have my kids learn to drive over the course of several years while being heavily supervised, experiencing all the different kinds of driving conditions so that when they get their license I can have peace of mind knowing that they know how to drive. Where I live if a person is over 21 they can basically walk into the DMV, take the written test, take a short driving test and get their license. 

Seeing almost routine reports of teen/young adults dying in car accidents frankly scares the shit out of me. I will be a much happier mama seeing my kid drive off after having sat with him/her for hours upon hours of driving time and knowing that they know how to safely operate a vehicle in all kinds of road conditions and have the skills necessary to safely interact with other drivers and respond to compromising situations. 

[Coy Koi]

2 hours ago, Antimony said:

Providing a car isn't necessary. Paying the insurance for an extra driver isn't the,  but never letting a kid learn to drive terrifies me because where I come from, it's a life skill. 

My parents' car insurance required minors to be on their parents' insurance policy if they had a license. That would have cost hundreds of dollars a month, so although I took driver's ed at age 15, I didn't get my license until I was an adult. My mom would never have let me drive her car (she still won't and I'm 34 with a clean driving record, but she's completely paranoid about anything related to driving), but the policy assumed that if there was a minor licensed driver in the household, they would be using the car(s).

Anyway, I don't think it's a big deal at all to not learn to drive as a minor. In many states, licenses for minors are heavily restricted anyway. My daughter is about to turn 16 and has never driven and probably won't be doing so anytime soon. If she wanted to, I would allow it, but it's not really something either of us are concerned about at this time.

[Jingerbread]

14 hours ago, KylieJenner said:

I am just saying this in regard to a student whose parents won't let him get his DL because of his grades. 

It really depends on why a student is failing.  Driving is a major responsibility, and every time you get behind the wheel, the lives of other people are at stake.  If a student is slacking off and not taking school seriously and failing, that's a good reason not to hand that kid the keys to the car.  If grades are bad because the assignments aren't making sense, or the student is taking extremely hard classes instead of going for an easy A in an easier class, but the student is still trying, that's still taking some responsibility.  

Even as adults, driving isn't a right.  If you drive irresponsibly and rack up tickets, your license can be suspended.  Driving is a privilege for a reason, and the reason is the risk to the lives of others.  Making an effort to do well in school is the least someone can do to show they should be in the driver seat.

[19 cats and counting]

I have a (former) friend who racked up multiple moving violations (mostly DUI and texting) and continues to drive irresponsibly (her family has an attorney on call to remove the offenses from her record).  I've told her a  million times that I'm not getting in the car with her until the iPhone gets put away but it just had me called rigid.  

[Hane]

Re @crawfishgirl: Excellent points. 

One interesting anecdote from my days at Ma Bell: A person was offered a customer service job, and said after accepting it, "Now, how am I supposed to get there every day?"--apparently expecting the company to provide transportation.