Erika Shupe *glower pout* Large Families on Purpose Part 5

[THERetroGamerNY]

Damn, a lot of you have harsh education stories and experiences...

[happy atheist]

When I was in high school my parents had a system: for the first report card there was some sort of tiered payment plan based on my grades. The higher the grade the more cash I got (I don't remember the details, but I think it was $10/A). For all the following report cards, if the grades went up or stayed As, I got paid, but if they went down I had to pay my parents back.

I honestly don't know if they saw my college grades. They paid my tuition, though, so I don't begrudge it if they did see them.

[THERetroGamerNY]

@happy atheistI have such little educational experience to know how to react to that system. It sounds like a good system to me? It seems to make you want to get better grades?

I was tossed homeschool books and told "study this". Others seem to have had VERY demanding expectations.

I would hope most children have a more happy middle ground.

[happy atheist]

2 minutes ago, THERetroGamerNY said:

@happy atheistI have such little educational experience to know how to react to that system. It sounds like a good system to me? It seems to make you want to get better grades?

I was tossed homeschool books and told "study this". Others seem to have had VERY demanding expectations.

I would hope most children have a more happy middle ground.

I think it would be a problem if a student is truly struggling with a topic, and instead of getting help is just penalized.

With my own kids, we didn't have any kind of reward or punishment system for grades and they both graduated HS with GPAs well over 4. I was very lucky in that they are both excellent students and very smart and self-motivated, and my husband and I just basically sat back and let them do their thing.

[Hisey]

1 minute ago, happy atheist said:

I think it would be a problem if a student is truly struggling with a topic, and instead of getting help is just penalized.

With my own kids, we didn't have any kind of reward or punishment system for grades and they both graduated HS with GPAs well over 4. I was very lucky in that they are both excellent students and very smart and self-motivated, and my husband and I just basically sat back and let them do their thing.

This is what I do. And it seems to work. My thought is that if I paid for grades, it would make it "my thing" instead of "their thing." And that is dangerous territory going into adolescence. My oldest, in particular, takes great pride in the fact that she achieves her high grades entirely on her own. If I tried to get involved, she'd resist me with all her might!

Of course, I am lucky in that my kids have never brought home poor, or even average, grades. I might be singing a different tune if I had an indifferent or struggling student.

[happy atheist]

6 minutes ago, Hisey said:

Of course, I am lucky in that my kids have never brought home poor, or even average, grades. I might be singing a different tune if I had an indifferent or struggling student.

This. It's easy when the kids are excelling. Whatever they're doing is working, so there's no need to intervene. 

[GenerationCedarchip]

On 3/2/2016 at 11:39 AM, refugee said:

I read an article (Huffpost, maybe?) when one of the teens was writing a research paper on helicopter parenting, that talked about the growing problem of helicopter parents of college kids. I knew a guy teaching a college IT class once, who talked about the mom who came in with her son, demanding that the unmotivated (as in late to turn in assignments, doing a half-assed job) son's grade be changed to an A or better yet, an A+, and threatening to have the instructor fired if the grade wasn't changed.

It's not just college. My husband had someone come in for a job interview with his mother.  And the guy was 28 and in grad school!

To clarify - nothing remotely homeschool or fundie-connected here.  Just weird.

[THERetroGamerNY]

2 minutes ago, GenerationCedarchip said:

It's not just college. My husband had someone come in for a job interview with his mother.  And the guy was 28 and in grad school!

My eyes just got wide with horror at this. O_O

[OnceUponATime]

Considering the berating I got when I came home one time with a 100% on a test, I considered trying to earn grades to please my parents impossible. These lovely people told me they wished that their child was the valedictorian instead of me after the graduation ceremony (because I just wasn't good enough). I made the wise decision to shut my parents out of my college adventure.

2 minutes ago, GenerationCedarchip said:

My husband had someone come in for a job interview with his mother.  And the guy was 28 and in grad school!

If he was living at his parents without any transport I can kind of understand how that could happen. Mom = taxi driver. I do think it is more appropriate for mom to drop him off and go shopping for a bit, but that isn't always possible/convenient. They should at least stay in the car with a book if they're doing that though!

[THERetroGamerNY]

Reminds me of the mother from "The Goldbergs". She would show up for the interview, and basically DO the interview for her son. lol

...and berated for a 100% on a test?? I'm sorry to hear that. Talk about messing with your head! That is totally saying "You're damned if you do, you're damned if you don't, kid."
 

[GenerationCedarchip]

19 minutes ago, OnceUponATime said:

Considering the berating I got when I came home one time with a 100% on a test, I considered trying to earn grades to please my parents impossible. These lovely people told me they wished that their child was the valedictorian instead of me after the graduation ceremony (because I just wasn't good enough). I made the wise decision to shut my parents out of my college adventure.

If he was living at his parents without any transport I can kind of understand how that could happen. Mom = taxi driver. I do think it is more appropriate for mom to drop him off and go shopping for a bit, but that isn't always possible/convenient. They should at least stay in the car with a book if they're doing that though!

Oh no.  She apparently needed a gentle reminder to wait in the lobby, accompanied by mention of the coffee shop across the way - whereupon she preceded to whip out her knitting and camp out next to my husband's receptionist.  

I couldn't make this stuff up if I tried.

[THERetroGamerNY]

It honestly never occured to me until reading this that the sitcom mom in The Goldbergs has real counterparts in real life. Gawd...

Wow, wait... this just occurred to me.

This is all about total control of the kid. I mean, this was a big realization for me, maybe not others.

Like how the Duggar's basically shove their hands so far up their kid's asses that the hand goes up to the brain and controls them like a puppet!

Soooooo... The uber-control parents view the kids as basically a living, breathing PUPPET.

I know this is a radical notion, but wouldn't it just be easier to not have the child in the first place?! No need to expend such vast quantities of time on control.

Oh, but then you'd have nothing to control. So.... that really says a lot about the parent.

Wow.

[OnceUponATime]

1 hour ago, GenerationCedarchip said:

Oh no.  She apparently needed a gentle reminder to wait in the lobby, accompanied by mention of the coffee shop across the way - whereupon she preceded to whip out her knitting and camp out next to my husband's receptionist.  

I couldn't make this stuff up if I tried.

haha. I knew there were helicopter parents, but I always assumed they might have a little bit of sense. damn.

 

@THERetroGamerNY yes. messing with my head seems to be a way for my parents to have fun or something (I think it was more a control thing though.). The interview with Krista (a former ati person, hope I have the name right) rang some very loud bells in my head, which were actually a surprise for me.

[nickelodeon]

Doesn't conversing with parents over the phone about a student violate FERPA?

The high school reading list in my homeschool curriculum was verrrrrry "alternative," almost entirely 19th century British novels interspersed with Protestant fiction like Pilgrim's Progress, The Screwtape Letters and The Flames of Rome. Also, A Child's Anthology of Poetry for a 16-year-old, ell oh ell. The Shupes are NEVER reading Salinger, is what I'm saying.

[jaelh]

agh. i hate the grades thing. the institution i'm at marks on a very strict curve (or at least, it's been relaxed slightly recently, but it was horrible, and it's still quite tough). 1-3% get 80%+.  (Yah, that's an A+ people.  This whole 98% business?  Can't even figure out how it's possible unless you're in math or something). 

Anyway. Our students require very high HS marks for admission. They're all used to being the best in their respective schools. the first assignment of first semester? you know the day grades are out. it's like the reckoning or something. i feel so badly for them. Forget their parents - that's a whole other level of hell.  They're beating themselves up without any direction from anyone. 

the problem is, you can be brilliant, and do all the work you possibly can, and step up with your extra cirics and all of it, and - no matter what you do - never go as well as you want because of the curve. Despite the duration of the program, some kids ever quite get over the number business. 60% is a solid, median mark. It's a good performance. But the idea you got a 60%? it's like taking home a badge of shame; the most demanding parents never get it. (and yes: there are mental health problems in the cohort, no doubt as a result). 

FWIW: I hate curved marking, at least in the elective program. We do award a professional degree in a very competitive field, and I understand that there is a demand to know where people perform relative to their peers, both from prospective employers and students. But ugh. I would love to see as get rid of grads all together (but maintain a significantly higher pass stranded).  But people are so wedded to getting (and giving) a number, I've heard stories of students deliberately avoiding ungraded courses so as not to "damage" their final transcript.  

TL;DR: Ug, grades. 

[nausicaa]

2 hours ago, GenerationCedarchip said:

Oh no.  She apparently needed a gentle reminder to wait in the lobby, accompanied by mention of the coffee shop across the way - whereupon she preceded to whip out her knitting and camp out next to my husband's receptionist.  

I couldn't make this stuff up if I tried.

I totally need more deets on this story!

Wasn't the guy embarrassed? Did he say anything about it? Did she come because she was his ride? She needed a reminder to wait in the lobby? OMG--did she think she was coming into the interview with him?

[Hane]

18 hours ago, THERetroGamerNY said:

 

Also, what is a partial scholarship?

Anything less than 100% of one's tuition. My daughter had been awarded something like $17,000 a semester.

[GenerationCedarchip]

4 hours ago, nausicaa said:

I totally need more deets on this story!

Wasn't the guy embarrassed? Did he say anything about it? Did she come because she was his ride? She needed a reminder to wait in the lobby? OMG--did she think she was coming into the interview with him?

Okay - I asked DH for more details.  He just remembered the guy as very awkward, but nothing was said about Mommy Dearest.  But yes, she clearly thought she was going to be an active participant in the meeting.

[Gimme a Free RV]

I tutored in a high school math class a few years ago.  These students were struggling academically.  One of the kids said his dad told him he couldn't get his driver's license until he brought home straight As.  This same kid put his head on his desk and slept through every class.  I felt sorry for him because his dad placed such an unrealistic, practically unachievable goal on him.  It had the opposite motivational effect.

[Jingerbread]

14 hours ago, imokit said:

If my parents linked grades to money I wouldn'the have finished my degree.  

I failed first year and had to resit my exams a few weeks later. Then passed the following five, gradually getting further above the passmark each time. 

This wasn't because I was slacking, but because the course was hard and it took a long term to work out how to pass the tests. 

When people link funding to grades, I feel awful as had that happened to me,  I wouldn't be working my professional job using my degree. 

Yes it's your money and if your kid is doing nothing but partying that's one thing.  Otherwise support them, grades aren't the most important thing to come out of a degree. For me going into the exam rooms were hard enough with the aim of passing, having to get a certain grade on top may have tipped me over the edge!

But the grades are required to get the degree.  Your parents apparently could afford to pay for an extra year of college.  For most parents, this is an EXTREME sacrifice, and they'll suffer in their elder years for it.  SOcial security isn't expected to be around for my generation, though we're paying into the system.  So I don't see it as wrong for parents to say they won't pay if their kid starts failing classes.  I don't see is as wrong if parents can't pay either.  I think a lot of adults have started thinking they're entitled to someone else paying. 

8 hours ago, OnceUponATime said:

If he was living at his parents without any transport I can kind of understand how that could happen. Mom = taxi driver. I do think it is more appropriate for mom to drop him off and go shopping for a bit, but that isn't always possible/convenient. They should at least stay in the car with a book if they're doing that though!

Reliable transportation is an important part of a job though.  If the reason that man needed his mom to attend the interview with him is that he lives with her and needs her to drive him around, it's completely fair for an employer to end the interview immediately, especially if she attended the interview with him.  I've had applications where I was asked if I had reliable transit because it actually matters to a lot of employers if their employees can get to work on time reliably, and I'm pretty sure no employer out there wants an employee's mommy hanging around for the shifts.  If I was an employer and someone brought a parent along for an interview and they weren't a minor, that would be an automatic denial.

[Jingerbread]

48 minutes ago, Gimme a Free RV said:

I tutored in a high school math class a few years ago.  These students were struggling academically.  One of the kids said his dad told him he couldn't get his driver's license until he brought home straight As.  This same kid put his head on his desk and slept through every class.  I felt sorry for him because his dad placed such an unrealistic, practically unachievable goal on him.  It had the opposite motivational effect.

Maybe his dad put that on him because his son was slacking to the point of sleeping through classes.

[OnceUponATime]

5 hours ago, Jingerbread said:

Reliable transportation is an important part of a job though.  If the reason that man needed his mom to attend the interview with him is that he lives with her and needs her to drive him around, it's completely fair for an employer to end the interview immediately, especially if she attended the interview with him.  I've had applications where I was asked if I had reliable transit because it actually matters to a lot of employers if their employees can get to work on time reliably, and I'm pretty sure no employer out there wants an employee's mommy hanging around for the shifts.  If I was an employer and someone brought a parent along for an interview and they weren't a minor, that would be an automatic denial.

Yes that is true, but some people can not afford to buy a car before they have a job.

I'm currently unemployed and this is a major problem for me. Where I am public transport gets me to a lot of places. I refuse to lie about my ownership of a car (I don't have one, I also say I'm willing to purchase a car if needed once I have a job). I can't afford to buy a car now without a promise of a job. Nor do I want to, because I would prefer to use public transport (even if I hate it). And yes my honesty about this may have cost me jobs. TBH while that sucks for me, it's more their problem. If they think the public transport is unreliable I personally think the companies should be lobbying the public transport companies/government for better transport. Plus, if I have turned up to my interview on time using public transport, then to me that shows it is reliable enough to get me to their business place using that method. A car does not guarantee people turning up on time (hello traffic jams), and to be honest it is annoying for companies to try and imply to me that it does.

 

[imokit]

7 hours ago, Jingerbread said:

But the grades are required to get the degree.  Your parents apparently could afford to pay for an extra year of college.  For most parents, this is an EXTREME sacrifice, and they'll suffer in their elder years for it.  SOcial security isn't expected to be around for my generation, though we're paying into the system.  So I don't see it as wrong for parents to say they won't pay if their kid starts failing classes.  I don't see is as wrong if parents can't pay either.  I think a lot of adults have started thinking they're entitled to someone else paying. 

No I resat my exams a month later and passed.  I did not do an extra year.  

My degree was pass or fail for each year based only on end of year exams. I got a pass.  I got the degree. Beyond that there were yearly rankings, which were part of job applications.  I was in the bottom 10% of my year but still got the job I wanted in a place I wanted. 

Had my parents said you need be average or good in your year or we'll cut funding (get good grades), I wouldn't have my degree as there was no way I would have been able to do that. No degree, means I wouldn't have the professional career I love. 

Some degrees are competitive and grade on av strict curve. Meaning some people will by definition get low grades.  Some have a high fail rate.  In my first year when I resat, so to did 25%of the year.

This is not entitled. This is me pointing out that sometimes a punative approach to grades isn't necessarily helpful. Because at the end of the day the thing that matters most is the degree which says you passed as opposed to the GPA or its equivalent. 

[ofDany]

Regarding the question of reliable transportation, I consider rides from parents and public transportation as reliable. My college-age daughter doesn't drive, so when she looked for a job she only looked at places she knew she could walk to or get to on the bus that goes nearest to our house. Due to her choice not to drive, she often leaves for work an hour before she would have to if she had a car, in order to be on time. But, bus passes are cheap compared to a car + insurance + fuel, so she's able to pay for more of her school this way, and I give her rides when I can. I wait for her in the parking lot however. When she was asked about reliable transportation she answered yes and no one thought that meant she had a car!

 

[Full enough quiver]

Our rule for grades is do your best, and your best is good enough. My older daughter is a c student. If she works her butt off, she can maybe swing a couple of bs. She's average intelligence with many amazing qualities, but just not an academic. My younger daughter shows up and gets an a, no sweat. She is in all honors classes, and as a freshman is in the same math class as her senior sister. While we are proud of her excellent grades, we are proud of both girls, and praise both for working hard. The older one actually tries harder, but the younger one makes us look good as parents. She is naturally gifted, an academic and athletic "superstar" kid. It's not easy being her big sister, getting outshone at basically everything. So many parents focus on their kids' accomplishments without considering that the effort is more important. I think it would be really hard on a kid knowing their best is never enough.