Jessa, Ben & Spurgeon Part 3

[FlamingFundie]

Bah. Men wearing fashion hats indoors drives me unnecessarily crazy.

I know many here are like, "Where will they get all this money?!" I think we don't give them enough credit, to a point. You never know what's in someone else's wallet. For all we know, they are super frugal where it really counts, perhaps JB actually set aside money for each child to receive later (either in a lump sum or given out as payments), maybe they are good at living within their means and have a good budget system, and maybe they have some money socked away from different speaking engagements, grifting, and/or the specials. I don't see the point in complaining about where they're going to get money when WE DON'T KNOW. Ive seen lots of people with meager incomes budget super well and live within their means, and they went on to live quite comfortably. Ive also seen people with very generous incomes blow it all away.

Let's be a little realistic here: JB and Michelle have over and over promoted budgeting and living within their means. We have even seen them go so far as to teach basic finances to their homeschool kids. That's more than they teach in most public schools anymore! Who's to say the offspring didn't pick up at least some level of financial responsibility? And let's make another point: most people in the US nowadays think debt is a necessary evil. It's an accepted practice in our society to take on some level of debt: either a car payment or student loans or a mortgage or credit cards. It is entirely possible to get around without all those things! It's not easy, but it is possible. And when I think that these kidults are starting off life better than a good chunk of other people their ages simply due to them not carrying a load of college or credit card debt into the start of their lives, it makes one wonder. Imagine walking out of your parents' house with your new spouse, neither of you have any debt, and one or both have a good chunk of savings waiting. If you thought about your monthly bills, the absolutely necessary stuff (rent, utilities (no cable tv), gas money, groceries, cheap cell phone (you can get pretty good service for less than $50/month), maybe internet service though if you pick a good cell provider you could use your phone as a wifi portal...) then really it's not a lot in monthly expenses. 

I just think we need to consider the fact that, while some here think the Duggars might do some slimy things with bartering/skimping/etc and while they did their kids a huge disservice in other areas, they really did give their kids a decent financial start to their adult lives.

And now I have to go shower all this yuckiness away from possibly even a little bit maybe defending one teensy tiny aspect of the Duggars. Uggg I feel so gross...

[quiverofdoubt]

She was really vague on the details of who owned the car, why it was in their possession, or why it was ok to take the blanket. Apparently the blanket was filthy, and the car may  have been headed to a junk yard? it sounded really gross all around. And possibly illegal.  They found the blanket after it was towed and on their property (which doubled as a tow yard for the cops). So they didn't tow it just to get the blanket.  But I'm pretty darn certain they weren't allowed to just take stuff from the cars either.

It's serious magical thinking there.

Maybe i'm confusing it with a car they bought for the lot? but that's not how I remembered it...it's in the book if anyone cares to check. 

[Whoosh]

How often did they steal from the owners of these vehicles?  Are we supposed to believe the miraculous pink blanket was the only time?  Did no one whose car got towed ever complain to the police about thefts?  Seriously, they just tell this story to praise Jesus and no one in the community even raises an eyebrow?  Sounds somewhat like the authorities in Hildale/Colorado City.  If a heathen did things like that they would likely end up in jail.

[Hera]

This story just so perfectly illustrates everything that is wrong with the Duggars:  narcissism, lack of empathy, selfishness, and so on and so on.  "Sorry, person whose car was disabled in a car accident or broke down and had to be left behind while you looked for a way to fix it.  But, God wanted little J to have a pink blanket.  Sucks to be you!  Here's a Jesus tract, though."

"Or, sorry kid with shitty drug dealer or otherwise criminal parents whose car was impounded.  God wants J to have your blanket now.  You should have had more godly parents."  

[quiverofdoubt]

OK, maybe i am remembering wrong. It was a car he bought for the lot. At the time they were doing the car lot thing and the towing business (towing cars for the cops as well). 

The story paraphrased by a  leghumper: http://www.mrsqbookaddict.net/2011/08/review-duggars-20-and-counting-raising.html 

Quote

Another story that I loved was 'The Pink Blanket Miracle.' Jill, their fourth child was asking her parents for a pink blanket like her sister's. She really, really wanted a pink blanket, but her parents were not doing very well financially and could not afford to buy Jill a blanket. Michelle told Jill, that she wasn't sure if a pink blanket was in her future. At this time, money was scarce and it would have been a frivolous purchase their couldn't afford. She asked Jill to pay for a pink blanket. A few days later, Jim Bob acquired a new car for the used car lot. While he was cleaning it out, he looked in the backseat and found a little pink blanket. When he brought this blanket to Jill, she was very excited! This story made me think... 

that being said, if you buy a used car and find things in it, isn't it sort of your obligation to try to return it to the original owner first? Maybe they technically owned the contents of the vehicle, but morally i'd say no.  And i've bought a lot of used cars over the years and i'm pretty sure the paperwork only ever stated the vehicle was transferring ownership, not objects found therein.

 

Ok, found the original text; page 70-72 or thereabouts

https://books.google.com/books?id=GWSeYWSIBdQC&pg=PA71&lpg=PA71&dq=duggar+20+and+counting+pink+blanket+miracle&source=bl&ots=zZRtuOsJgO&sig=xAjnPbS833X3cRJIUVov7Nn0v4A&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwie67PcwpPLAhUKWz4KHZoiBbsQ6AEIHDAA#v=onepage&q=duggar%2020%20and%20counting%20pink%20blanket%20miracle&f=false

[nastyhobbitses]

9 minutes ago, Hera said:

This story just so perfectly illustrates everything that is wrong with the Duggars:  narcissism, lack of empathy, selfishness, and so on and so on.  "Sorry, person whose car was disabled in a car accident or broke down and had to be left behind while you looked for a way to fix it.  But, God wanted little J to have a pink blanket.  Sucks to be you!  Here's a Jesus tract, though."

"Or, sorry kid with shitty drug dealer or otherwise criminal parents whose car was impounded.  God wants J to have your blanket now.  You should have had more godly parents."  

And even more innocuously, that's just teaching those kids, "just take things that aren't yours, you're entitled". We can add Thou Shalt Not Steal to the list of things in the Bible that the Duggars ignore.

[quiverofdoubt]

So even if it wasn't theft (she claimed the car was abandoned)  teaching your kid not to save up for something, or find a way to live without, just to pray. and magic happens.  there is an actual psychological term called magical thinking and it's how small children's minds work. Until they discover abstract thought, science and logic.  It seems the duggars just never develop beyond the magic part.  And incidents like those that "prove" to the kids that prayer works helped to brain wash them.  See? you were a good jesus lover and prayed just right and bam, you got what you wished for!  Coincidence? nah. couldn't be.

[Fundie Bunny]

You are blowing things out of proportion. This was a filthy blanket, not grandma's ashes

(I hate defendido the duggars)

[Whoosh]

Ok, seems like the car was purchased and the blanket reasonably seemed to have been abandoned or sold with the vehicle so maybe the entire community doesn't need to be jailed .  I take it back.  I'm not trying to persecute anyone LOL.  

[season of life]

4 minutes ago, Fundie Bunny said:

You are blowing things out of proportion. This was a filthy blanket, not grandma's ashes

(I hate defendido the duggars)

I don't think the taking of the blanket is what's bothering everyone, just how Michelle shaped that incident to put certain ideas into her kids' head. Nothing's wrong with prayer, but we know with this family that when there's a problem or conflict of interest, the only feasible option is to pray it all away.

[quiverofdoubt]

6 minutes ago, season of life said:

I don't think the taking of the blanket is what's bothering everyone, just how Michelle shaped that incident to put certain ideas into her kids' head. Nothing's wrong with prayer, but we know with this family that when there's a problem or conflict of interest, the only feasible option is to pray it all away.

That was my thought too, less about how they got the blanket and more about the lesson about prayer taught.  You don't just pray for tangible/material goods- that's not what prayer is for! It's like an insult to god.

also, the filthy blanket left in the back of an abandoned and wrecked car skeezes me out a lot. Hunt thrift stores for a blanket and don't risk giving your small child some weird infection/disease. yuck.

[Hera]

11 minutes ago, season of life said:

I don't think the taking of the blanket is what's bothering everyone, just how Michelle shaped that incident to put certain ideas into her kids' head. Nothing's wrong with prayer, but we know with this family that when there's a problem or conflict of interest, the only feasible option is to pray it all away.

Yeah, no one really gives a shit about a gross blanket, it's the point that is the reason for the snark.  First, that Michelle told her daughter to wish really hard for a blanket to appear for her instead of do chores for someone or something to earn money to buy one.  We can see how that played out throughout their lives. Second, is the fact that they consider a blanket appearing in an abandoned car to be a sign from God with no further regard or thought. It's typical of how the magical thinking, black and white, lack of empathy or appreciation for anything beyond their own existence manner in which they approach all things.  

 

[Whoosh]

Even my overreaction wasn't really about this particular blanket.  I misunderstood the situation, but taking the blanket isn't the problem I saw.  In situations where the authorities are corrupt, the rights of the "out" group are typically trampled upon.  I would expect any tow truck driver to realize that the contents of the vehicle are not up for grabs and that taking anything out of the vehicle is theft whether it has monetary value or not.  I would not expect them to run around brazenly talking about how they absconded with the property of others and publishing it in a book.  Fortunately, none of that has anything to do with how this blanket miracle actually went down.

That said, I do agree that this teaches the girls a slew of weird things.  That bothers me too, but in a different way.  Again, though, it was totally ME that overreacted and  I apologize.

[OnceUponATime]

Ah the good old day's of praying for stuff and miracles happening.

Like praying in the morning that there would be food for dinner that night (God didn't always answer that one how I wanted ), or for black curtains because I couldn't sleep at night in the light (I got dark navy blue which blacked out my new room. Close enough).

The amount of testimonies of people my age that I know of relating to praying for food (because the cupboards were bare) and God miraculously providing is disgusting.

[quiverofdoubt]

I'm still a bit skeptical about how they acquired the blanket. Seems a big coincidence, especially since it came in the only type of vehicle they had a right to scavenge from. And i get that maybe he bought the car as a parts vehicle, but who buys old wrecks for a used lot? it just seems too good to be true. Maybe i'm just not a miracle believer though (although a pink blanket showing up isn't a miracle in my book).

@OnceUponATime i agree it is disgusting. God provides for those who get up and do. Instead of teaching followers how to help themselves, giving them actual skills and jobs, it's just "pray for it".   Prayer works best when you get up and do something about it.  

and instead of actually creating a food pantry, or some kind of system to help those in need, just prayer? really? then reinforce it with stories of people who "got lucky"? So it's ok to take charity as long as it's disguised as an answer from god?

[Timetostoplurking]

Many many years ago when I was a teenager.  (Think the 80's)  I went with a neighbor friend to her church youth groups annual amusement park field trip.  I thought, "why not! Cute boys! Roller coasters,  greasy food!  Awesome!"    Since I was a late add on, I didn't preorder tickets and had to pay for a full price ticket.   The youth group leader ladies told me to pray about it and maybe God will help me out. (I only had my hard earned babysitting money and really cringed at paying full price.).  At the admission gate someone was selling a discount ticket for whatever reason.    The youth group leaders were all so excited for me because God answered my prayers.   In my head I'm thinking....."chill out church lady, it's just a coincidence" To her it was a miracle!   I don't think God really cared about getting me a discount ticket.  Lol      The magical thinking was ingrained.    That was the last event I went to with her church.  Thankfully!!    Done with that nonsense!!  

[OnceUponATime]

@quiverofdoubt tbh where I lived at one stage was a really poor rural area. No one had enough extra to make a food pantry - our church was pretty good at everyone helping each other out though(which is how God miraculously provided us dinners some nights). My parents were both working, but at some stages just didn't have any cash in hand to buy food (and proudly refused temporary loans from relatives ).

 

My biggest problem with it is none of those people felt like they could ask for help. They could only submit prayer requests (if even that) and hope someone would take pity on them. That is such a crappy way to live if you're struggling. It wasn't just pride of the poor, it was also the condemnation handed down to them by those in better positions.

I ended up eating one meal a day for many years because I was scared that food would run out otherwise. I couldn't even tell anyone because I knew they would blame my lack of faith. So f'd up. And that thinking of "coincidences=God working" is so pervasive in a lot of churches it's hard to escape.

[JesSky03]

1 hour ago, Fundie Bunny said:

You are blowing things out of proportion. This was a filthy blanket, not grandma's ashes

(I hate defendido the duggars)

Honestly if it wasn't the Duggars it might be a cute story. Reminds me of a story about one of my nieces. She was running water to take a shower by herself and it was too hot. So on her own, she sat down by the tub and decided to pray about it and what do you know, the water got cooler! She was so excited and just had to tell mom about it, and mom just asked "So were you praying for a long time?". Some day she will learn what really caused the water to cool down but for now why not just let her enjoy the magic of the moment? 

[Fundie Bunny]

2 minutes ago, JesSky03 said:

Honestly if it wasn't the Duggars it might be a cute story. Reminds me of a story about one of my nieces. She was running water to take a shower by herself and it was too hot. So on her own, she sat down by the tub and decided to pray about it and what do you know, the water got cooler! She was so excited and just had to tell mom about it, and mom just asked "So were you praying for a long time?". Some day she will learn what really caused the water to cool down but for now why not just let her enjoy the magic of the moment? 

This really makes me want to have a baby. Only that I am a baby myself (period hormones)

[RoseWilder]

On 2/5/2016 at 3:47 PM, Chickenbutt said:

I had 2 boys...as babies, one was easy, slept well, self soothed, giggled and laughed. The other cried all the time, had colic, threw up on me, never slept more than 20-30 minutes at a time and had to be held all the time. My goal in life was to find someone, anyone, else to hold my screaming kid.

Oh my goodness, your son sounds EXACTLY like the baby I used to take care of when I was a nanny. He was always screaming so hard I don't even think he could hear me when I would try to talk or sing to him. Forget trying to read a book to him, he always ended up throwing up on the book. . . and the couch. .  .and the rug. . . and me. And nothing I did made him feel better. And it lasted for the first six months of his life. I love babies and I loved working as a nanny - but I can't say that I enjoyed anything about those six months. 

[Hera]

16 minutes ago, OnceUponATime said:

@quiverofdoubt tbh where I lived at one stage was a really poor rural area. No one had enough extra to make a food pantry - our church was pretty good at everyone helping each other out though(which is how God miraculously provided us dinners some nights). My parents were both working, but at some stages just didn't have any cash in hand to buy food (and proudly refused temporary loans from relatives ).

 

My biggest problem with it is none of those people felt like they could ask for help. They could only submit prayer requests (if even that) and hope someone would take pity on them. That is such a crappy way to live if you're struggling. It wasn't just pride of the poor, it was also the condemnation handed down to them by those in better positions.

I ended up eating one meal a day for many years because I was scared that food would run out otherwise. I couldn't even tell anyone because I knew they would blame my lack of faith. So f'd up. And that thinking of "coincidences=God working" is so pervasive in a lot of churches it's hard to escape.

Yeah, that same SB church that I have referenced before used to own a house that they let the groundskeeper/janitor live in as part of his compensation, but apparently, they didn't pay him squat.  And, the kids (who obviously heard from their parents) used to mock how the guy and his family would have to get food from the church's food pantry.  It was so bad that the janitor wouldn't even send his kids to that church because he wanted to protect them.  More or less the same thing happened to a family who were just members, but poor and had a child with special needs.  The members were just terrible gossipers about the family and their circumstances and were ugly to them, but took every opportunity to make the daughter a special project they had to do something "godly."  It was really, really gross.  

[QuiverDance]

19 hours ago, twinmama said:

Do all of those laws apply for private domestic adoptions? Because IMO the only way any of them will ever adopt is if some pregnant fundie girl/leg humper wants to give her baby to a Duggar. They will never go through the waiting list domestic or international route IMO.

It's just easier in the sense that you get a baby more quickly.  The state will still vet the parents.  

[Screamapillar]

The part of the "Miracle Blanket" story that really bothered me is Michelle telling her child that they couldn't afford to buy her a blanket, while Michelle was surely busy gestating another younger sibling for this child. If you can't buy blankets for the children you already have.....

23 minutes ago, JesSky03 said:

Honestly if it wasn't the Duggars it might be a cute story. Reminds me of a story about one of my nieces. She was running water to take a shower by herself and it was too hot. So on her own, she sat down by the tub and decided to pray about it and what do you know, the water got cooler! She was so excited and just had to tell mom about it, and mom just asked "So were you praying for a long time?". Some day she will learn what really caused the water to cool down but for now why not just let her enjoy the magic of the moment? 

Cute niece story! This reminded me of how when I was a little girl, every time I went over to my Great-Grandma's (Meme) she would have an ice cold Pepsi for me in an a cool old glass bottle. I thought these bottles were the coolest! Nowhere else had them! I was reminiscing about this with my Mom a few years ago and she said, "Meme just bought a liter of Pepsi at the Piggly Wiggly and filled up those bottles with it before you came over!" Talk about ruining the magic, Mom!

[quiverofdoubt]

48 minutes ago, JesSky03 said:

Honestly if it wasn't the Duggars it might be a cute story. Reminds me of a story about one of my nieces. She was running water to take a shower by herself and it was too hot. So on her own, she sat down by the tub and decided to pray about it and what do you know, the water got cooler! She was so excited and just had to tell mom about it, and mom just asked "So were you praying for a long time?". Some day she will learn what really caused the water to cool down but for now why not just let her enjoy the magic of the moment? 

What a cute story :).  Totally appropriate, and wonderful, for children to hang on to their sense of magic.  It's when you're 15/20/30/40 years old and still believe you don't need a diploma or a job or feel the need to get off your butt because prayer can get you anything you want.  No one ever told jill that it was probably just a coincidence, instead this magical idea kept getting, and still being, fed to her. Ask and you shall receive. No need to do.

[FleeJanaFree]

4 hours ago, Four is Enough said:

How on earth are Benessa going to come up with even THAT kind of money?

Let's not pretend they're broke. Daddy pays their way and they stay under his thumb. And even if he didn't they'd have leg jumpers coming out of the woodwork to donate.