Erika Shupe *grim rictus* Large Families on Purpose Part 3

[Jingerbread]

58 minutes ago, Hisey said:

Erika brags so much about her one-day toilet training that I was surprised to see her write this in response to a reader:

Poor little Tyler was probably trying to get control over something in his life. I never had boys, so I don't know, is it really common for 4.5 year old boys to wear diapers? The little boys I remember at my girls' preschool never wore diapers. They were messy using the toilet, but they could use it.

It's not unheard of, but unusual.  In a household where they have so little control, this might be their way to feel a tiny amount of power.

[IrishCarrie]

I'm really hating Erika's sentence about the negative consequences for when he goes in his pants.  

I'm no expert, but I thought most moms approach potty training by going "Wow!! You're amazing!!!" when the child gets it right. Accidents happen and it's part of the process.

And if Tyler is deliberately not playing ball, then that's definitely one to seek a little professional help with. A chat with your GP at the very least...

[Foudeb]

2 hours ago, IrishCarrie said:

A chat with your GP at the very least...

you must mean chiropractor. All other highly qualified medical professionals are quacks.

[Foudeb]

Is it really Tyler who wants to control something, or Erika.

Keeping him in diapers is a way for her to be the super-mom she thinks she is, rushing around "caring" for everything all the time and controlling when her children get what. It would take much (like him not getting the bathroom unlocked on time once) for her to take that as an excuse to bring the diapers back.

[Kailash]

I think one reason some (most?) 4.5 year olds aren't still wearing diapers is that most day care centers require kids to be potty trained by a certain age, unless there's a specific medical condition. I'm pretty sure that one of the requirements for pre-K was that the child be potty trained.
 I'm a big believer that every child is different, and should be parented accordingly. However, I would definitely chat with my child's pediatrician if they were not day time potty trained by around age 3.

[ILoveJellybeans]

It is very unusual for a four and a half year old to be wearing diapers, and certainly worth speaking to a doctor about.

[Hisey]

I agree with the poster above, that putting Tyler in diapers might be Erika's way of dealing with a little boy who needs more help and patience with potty training than she wants to give.

After all, with each potty accident comes a mess, a mess of urine, no less. And she can't control when and where the mess is going to happen. It could throw off the schedule, or even require Erika to spend time with Tyler when he is supposed to be in his room, alone, for 60 minutes (really, this was the schedule for Tyler when he was three).

Think of all she'd have to do with each accident. First and foremost, she'd have to scold Tyler and deliver "consequences." Then she'd have to take off his clothes, put them in the laundry, get out her biohazmat spray and clean up the floor. If there's pee on the carpet, she'd have even more work there. Then she'd have to take Tyler to the bathroom and either wipe off his legs or bathe  him. Then she'd have to dress him in new underpants and pants (messing up the laundry schedule, too, no doubt). And what if it happens again in two hours? The schedule is shot!

My oldest had accidents for about six months after her potty-training.  I don't know if I trained her too early, or if she was a very distractible kid. Probably both. She was definitely one who would not stop her play for something as boring as using the toilet. Anyhow, the end result was, we'd have surprise accidents at Home Depot, while company was over, in the car, etc, a few times a month. It didn't even occur to me to put her back in diapers. Wouldn't that have embarrassed her? Though she was only 3, she surely would have understood that was a step backwards into babydom. A toddler is not a machine, that you can put aside and figure out later. Anyhow, I thought those accidents were part of the process, no one is perfect at a new skill right away. 

[waterandrocks]

The way I see it there are two possibilities. It could be that Tyler really is behind in that area, in which case he needs patience and understanding rather than consequences for something he can't control (and possibly negative consequences are actually a cause here as well.) The other possibility is that he's doing it on purpose as a way to seek attention. That seems to be setting him up for a slippery slope of feeding off of negative attention. In that scenario it seems like he also needs patience and understanding rather than consequences. Poor kid.

[defraudingjezebel]

@Hisey I think you're right on the money. The "potty training in a day" scheme apparently didn't work in his case. Instead of having the time and patience to clean up any subsequent accidents, Erika may have just puts him back in diapers to contain the mess. 

I also can't help but wonder if the situation may be related to the bathroom being on lockdown. Supposedly the older kids have a key to the toilet but if Tyler is still working out timing/the signals for going to the bathroom, putting a lock on it may inadvertently have caused some accidents. 

[Rubaiyat]

Yeah...add me to Team: Way To Eff A Kid Up with the potty learning business.  Even if it started out as a control issue, it could absolutely develop into a medical/physical issue if his body is being trained to ignore its signals.  4 and a half isn't awful, but it's definitely time to start getting to the root of the problem.  Honestly, I'd be getting to the root of the issue with the 3.5 year, too.  

Kids will typically (correct me if I'm mis-assuming here) potty train themselves when they're ready.  Both our kids that we had as littles did this - one of them in a day.  He was 22 months, came downstairs holding a pair of his older sibling's underoos, and said "I have to pee, then I can wear these?" and that was pretty much that - barring the occasional accident here and there.  I also bought him his own underoos.

Also, just one more thing to make sure I'm understanding, because I'm no kinda SuperParent, accidents are a part of life, right?  As in, we all have them, be they bathroom accidents, dropping dishes, spilling wine on the baby (I only did that once!) or forgetting to shut the side gate.  Stuff happens, you jog the schedule to the left, and move on, right?  

I'm so worried about these kids when they get a few more years down the road.  Or now.  I'm worried now, too.  Sad face.  

[Jingerbread]

2 hours ago, Rubaiyat said:

Also, just one more thing to make sure I'm understanding, because I'm no kinda SuperParent, accidents are a part of life, right?  As in, we all have them, be they bathroom accidents, dropping dishes, spilling wine on the baby (I only did that once!) or forgetting to shut the side gate.  Stuff happens, you jog the schedule to the left, and move on, right?  

A few months ago, I was pretty sick, and took NyQuil.  Thank goodness my spouse didn't freak out that, while I was in a deep sleep, I, a person toilet-trained over three decades, caused a need to change the sheets in the middle of the night.

It happens.  The world does not end. I repeat, the world does not end.

But I'm worried about a kid who is going on five who isn't trained at all.  Either he's claiming power because of a lack in his life, or Erika's not willing to spend the time with him.  And her younger son also isn't trained at all.

[formergothardite]

Why is the bathroom door kept locked?

[Jingerbread]

12 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

Why is the bathroom door kept locked?

Because she says the kids will play in the toilet unless she locks it.

[Rubaiyat]

1 hour ago, Jingerbread said:

A few months ago, I was pretty sick, and took NyQuil.  Thank goodness my spouse didn't freak out that, while I was in a deep sleep, I, a person toilet-trained over three decades, caused a need to change the sheets in the middle of the night.

It happens.  The world does not end. I repeat, the world does not end.

 

Yeah...I did that at my aunt's house...at 25 freaking years old.  I'd just had a baby, and wasn't, erm, completely back in touch with all my body's signals yet.  Murphy beds are both awesome AND, surprisingly easy to de-urine in the middle of the night whilst newly postpartum and holding a half-screaming, half-nursing newborn who wants nothing to do with the process!  

I'm glad the world did not end for you either.   My aunt doesn't even tease me about buying wee pads for my visits anymore!  Score!!  

36 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

Why is the bathroom door kept locked?

Forgive me.  All I could think when I read this was "why is the cork on the fork?"  

[Seven Severn]

My mother was extremely worried that she wasn't going to get my brother potty trained before he started kindergarten. He got the hang of it just in time, apparently.

[anjulibai]

I'm feeling embarassed because my nearly 4 year old son is still in diapers. Well, pull-ups, but he won't poop in the potty and is now beginning to refuse to go pee. He was making progress until we went to California for a visit over the summer and he's just regressed increasingly sense. I'm not really sure what to do. We did just buy him some new underpants for Christmas so hopefully that will encourage him, but at this point DH and I are super frustrated. I know it's not normal for him to still not be potty trained, but I'm not sure what to do. I just hope we can figure something out by this summer, because our second is due in August and I really don't want 2 in diapers at once.

[sockinshoe]

I'm feeling embarassed because my nearly 4 year old son is still in diapers. Well, pull-ups, but he won't poop in the potty and is now beginning to refuse to go pee. He was making progress until we went to California for a visit over the summer and he's just regressed increasingly sense. I'm not really sure what to do. We did just buy him some new underpants for Christmas so hopefully that will encourage him, but at this point DH and I are super frustrated. I know it's not normal for him to still not be potty trained, but I'm not sure what to do. I just hope we can figure something out by this summer, because our second is due in August and I really don't want 2 in diapers at once. [emoji20]

I was super slow to potty train. I was 3.5 years old and telling my parents "not yet! Not yet! Soon, but not yet" in 3 languages. They were so exasperated and worried about my uneven development, until one day, I put my mind to it and started only wearing pull ups at night. My parents also had to bribe my brother with "big boy underpants" to get him trained. Some kids take a little longer, but they absolutely get there and turn out fine.

ETA: is it possible he's suddenly become very worried/preoccupied with things changing and is fighting to keep them the same? Kids are prone to that kind of thing and can have the oddest little hang ups.

[anjulibai]

10 minutes ago, sockinshoe said:

 

I was super slow to potty train. I was 3.5 years old and telling my parents "not yet! Not yet! Soon, but not yet" in 3 languages. They were so exasperated and worried about my uneven development, until one day, I put my mind to it and started only wearing pull ups at night. My parents also had to bribe my brother with "big boy underpants" to get him trained. Some kids take a little longer, but they absolutely get there and turn out fine.

ETA: is it possible he's suddenly become very worried/preoccupied with things changing and is fighting to keep them the same? Kids are prone to that kind of thing and can have the oddest little hang ups.

We've thought about that and it well could be. He's also been acting out and not listening and just being a real pain lately. He's an angel at daycare, though, which is both a comfort and disheartening. 

[Guest]

Erika got a big clock for Christmas.  First she said she got it from Hobby Lobby, then she said Santa got it from Hobby Lobby.  I thought Erika didn't do Santa "Clause"?  Isn't Santa a pervert with an attic full of pornography?  I'm confused.

Below that post someone says they got their kids a giant clock for Christmas last year.  Poor kids, I can't think of anything more disappointing that a clock for a kid on Christmas.  I hope they got other stuff too.

[defraudingjezebel]

23 minutes ago, AbandonAllHope said:

Erika got a big clock for Christmas.  First she said she got it from Hobby Lobby, then she said Santa got it from Hobby Lobby.  I thought Erika didn't do Santa "Clause"?  Isn't Santa a pervert with an attic full of pornography?  I'm confused.

Below that post someone says they got their kids a giant clock for Christmas last year.  Poor kids, I can't think of anything more disappointing that a clock for a kid on Christmas.  I hope they got other stuff too.

I think, if I recall correctly, that Erika doesn't do mall Santas because of the porn. I guess the pretend Santa is okay, though... Until the idea of Santa Clause [sic] loses its usefulness to Erika. Then she'll do "research" on Santa's pagan, Satanist origins and forbid any discussion of him, while expressing disapproval for anyone who tells their kids about Santa too. 

I saw the clock picture too. I really hope that there was another family gift besides the clock. Because if its just the clock, the family gift actually seems more like an Erika gift. 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, defraudingjezebel said:

I think, if I recall correctly, that Erika doesn't do mall Santas because of the porn. 

That sentence made me lol and scare my cat!  Yes, you're right, no mall santas because of the porn, but they do "play Santa honestly" with the kids, which entails telling the kids that Santa brought them a present, but doing it in such a way that the kids know they're kidding.  Not at all confusing or pointless...

[Jingerbread]

6 hours ago, anjulibai said:

I'm feeling embarassed because my nearly 4 year old son is still in diapers. Well, pull-ups, but he won't poop in the potty and is now beginning to refuse to go pee. He was making progress until we went to California for a visit over the summer and he's just regressed increasingly sense. I'm not really sure what to do. We did just buy him some new underpants for Christmas so hopefully that will encourage him, but at this point DH and I are super frustrated. I know it's not normal for him to still not be potty trained, but I'm not sure what to do. I just hope we can figure something out by this summer, because our second is due in August and I really don't want 2 in diapers at once.

Have you had him checked by a doc to rule out medical causes?

Don't be embarrassed.  You're probably not overly-controlling like Erika, and so probably aren't doing anything wrong that can cause this.  If there's a medical reason, or your son experienced a lot of anxiety about traveling that he is still dealing with on a subconscious level, then getting to the root may solve it.  You're concerned and trying.  Erika doesn't really care.

[Eternalbluepearl]

Maybe Bob could also try helping the boys to potty train? Oh wait, the Shupes don't believe in marriages being partnerships. 

[Anonymousguest]

12 hours ago, anjulibai said:

I'm feeling embarassed because my nearly 4 year old son is still in diapers. Well, pull-ups, but he won't poop in the potty and is now beginning to refuse to go pee. He was making progress until we went to California for a visit over the summer and he's just regressed increasingly sense. I'm not really sure what to do. We did just buy him some new underpants for Christmas so hopefully that will encourage him, but at this point DH and I are super frustrated. I know it's not normal for him to still not be potty trained, but I'm not sure what to do. I just hope we can figure something out by this summer, because our second is due in August and I really don't want 2 in diapers at once.

Like I said in my first post regarding the potty training, late training doesn't necessarily mean something is wrong, but a4yr old in diapers is far enough outside the norm that I would be concerned enough to do a consult with the pediatrician. There are medical and developmental issues that can cause a child difficulty in learning to use the toilet.

 

Erika's son Tyler must be 6.5-7 now, and as far as we can tell, is potty trained and not visibly impaired. So some kids are just slower. There are a myriad of reasons for a child to be delayed. Just being uncertain about what will happen with his place in the family when the new baby comes could be enough to make your son worried to potty train. 

 

[anachronistic]

I see a pattern in this thread and others where people say 'oh my gosh, me/my kid/my family is a teeny tiny bit like this awful fundie family' and feel bad about it.  Please, please don't.  The fact is that what makes these families lives so awful is the many, many things wrong with them, so having one similarity with them shouldn't be something to worry about.

For example, would Erika take her kid to the pediatrician or seek out help with potty training?  No, she just assumes that her way is the right and only way.  Anjulibai, I've had tons of experience potty training kids, and I would recommend a visit or a consult, just to make sure there's nothing else going on - not to derail this topic into potties, but constipation can be a huge issue around potty learning - there's a book about it that was really fantastic; http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steve-hodges-md/potty-training_b_1370852.html