Spurgeon? Jessa's Poor Baby Part 2

[Gobsmacked]

I'm with you arrowoftruth!!

[Mothership]

Trying to catch up on this thread after being gone a few days.

Why has there been a jump from phrases like "team of midwives" to the presumption that it meant, DQ, Bin's mom, Jana and Jinger?  Did I miss something?   We have yet to see film of the delivery.  We've only gotten DQ's 911 call and while I haven't gone back to listen, I recall something about her uterus being messaged.  I would presume that a midwife was doing that?

I guess, I'm finding myself in an awkward position of having to defend a Duggar choice for a first time delivery at home with a midwife (and I'm thinking that she DID have a licensed midwife in attendance).  Sure, Jill waited a REALLY long time to go to the hospital, but I don't think it's fair to lump Jessa's post birth bleeding into that same category.  It could easily have happened at a hospital or birthing center and does happen at hospitals/birthing centers and sometimes the effects are just as dangerous. And, they did appropriately and in a timely manner call 911. And even DQ's baby voice--though really annoying--was probably an effort to maintain control of the situation and reduce panic.

Wow-- I just complimented DQ.  Time to switch to another thread, so I can get some balance.

[nastyhobbitses]

Stanton isn't a name I would choose. But it's not horrible. It at least sounds like a real name to me.

Yeah, I think Stanton goes in my category of "last names that could kinda work as first names, but maybe would do better as middle names" names. Anderson, Spencer, Graham, Brooks, Carlin, Darcy, Kennedy, McKenna, Mackenzie, Sanders, and Martin are good last-names-as-first-names, IMO.

[vienna]

On people they have an article promotion the catholic-hater named " 5 things to know about Charles Spurgeon". Since I am refusing to visit the site and be counted as person interested in the Duggars, I would hope that someone could post a screen shot or something here. Since I believe the next couple of months ans the upcoming Specials will decide on the Media-$$-TV status of the Duggars I am very carful on my "support by click". But still curious 

[EmCatlyn]

It's because the U.S. has much more of an issue with racism against black people who have been in the country for hundreds of years, whereas many European countries tend to have more problems with xenophobia in the face of immigration from Northern Africa, the Middle East, Turkey, etc. Obviously, the issue is not as clear-cut as all that - but those are the big tendencies. Xenophobia and racism are, of course, strongly interlinked, and I personally don't think it's possible to really distinguish one from the other. Quick example: Irish and Italian Catholics didn't used to be considered "white" in the U.S. - and there was a huge problem with racism against them, as VelociRapture explained above. This should make it obvious that race is purely a social construct; hence why the whole "but they have white skin as well, so I can't possibly be racist by discriminating against them" doesn't work. I'm just rambling at this point. Hope anybody was able to follow at all...

Definitions and classifications of race are all kind of arbitrary.  Skin color may seem obvious to us, but it doesn't have to be.  Sometimes very little kids will describe a daycare playmate with skin very different from theirs without thinking to mention that small and insignificant detail of skin color.  

As you say, historically there have been other criteria for "race."  I would add that often what people mean by "race" is closer to ethnicity and culture (or even class).  

[EmCatlyn]

with regards to nicknames and the Duggars 

I seem to remember hearing - Siah, for Josiah, Jessa Blessa for Jessa, and even Jill has started to call Spurgeon's father Benji, and doesn't Jennifer go by Jenni, there must be more. I heard more than once Spuregon's mother call Jinger Jinge. and of course Jed and Jer and they all call jB daddy which is weird 

 

What is weird about calling one's father "Daddy"?  Here in the South most girls/women and some boys/men refer to their fathers as"Daddy."

 

[Amanda7980]

Yeah, I'm 35 and still call my parents Daddy and Momma.  It's definitely a southern thing.  I'm a professional with a master's degree and have a child of my own.

[EmCatlyn]

What about Seaweed?

I figure we will try different nicknames and one or two will stick.  Personally, I am going with baby Fishy.

[goldfishgoddess]

I guess, I'm finding myself in an awkward position of having to defend a Duggar choice for a first time delivery at home with a midwife (and I'm thinking that she DID have a licensed midwife in attendance).  Sure, Jill waited a REALLY long time to go to the hospital, but I don't think it's fair to lump Jessa's post birth bleeding into that same category.  It could easily have happened at a hospital or birthing center and does happen at hospitals/birthing centers and sometimes the effects are just as dangerous. And, they did appropriately and in a timely manner call 911.

 

Bleeding is a risk yes, but if she'd had that hemorrhage in a hospital they could have given her an injection right away to stop it.  The fact she has a family history of bleeds (her mother) + a 10 pound baby really should have had her in a hospital for this birth.  It's possible to labor in a hospital with a CNM and only call in a doctor if things take a turn for the worse.

How long does it take to call the ambulance and then get to the ER?  It's possible to bleed out within that time.

[ClaraOswin]

Trying to catch up on this thread after being gone a few days.

Why has there been a jump from phrases like "team of midwives" to the presumption that it meant, DQ, Bin's mom, Jana and Jinger?  Did I miss something?   We have yet to see film of the delivery.  We've only gotten DQ's 911 call and while I haven't gone back to listen, I recall something about her uterus being messaged.  I would presume that a midwife was doing that?

I guess, I'm finding myself in an awkward position of having to defend a Duggar choice for a first time delivery at home with a midwife (and I'm thinking that she DID have a licensed midwife in attendance).  Sure, Jill waited a REALLY long time to go to the hospital, but I don't think it's fair to lump Jessa's post birth bleeding into that same category.  It could easily have happened at a hospital or birthing center and does happen at hospitals/birthing centers and sometimes the effects are just as dangerous. And, they did appropriately and in a timely manner call 911. And even DQ's baby voice--though really annoying--was probably an effort to maintain control of the situation and reduce panic.

Wow-- I just complimented DQ.  Time to switch to another thread, so I can get some balance.

In the people article it said that she was with her midwives but then it listed Michelle, Guinn, Jana, and Jinger.

ETA - Back on page 27, nst quoted the People article. I didn't buy it but I skimmed it waiting in line at Walmart and I did read this as well. Couldn't find it online though.

Jessa assembled a team of midwives - her mother, mother in law and sisters Jana and Jinger to assist during labour..."

Yeah, I think Stanton goes in my category of "last names that could kinda work as first names, but maybe would do better as middle names" names. Anderson, Spencer, Graham, Brooks, Carlin, Darcy, Kennedy, McKenna, Mackenzie, Sanders, and Martin are good last-names-as-first-names, IMO.

My husband's name is on that list.

[EmCatlyn]

It's been a long read, I'm finally at the end of the thread again. My main thought at this point is that Bin is going to whore out 5-6 year old Spurgeon as a child preacher. You know what makes money and keeps the cameras on? Child preachers. The US hasnt had one in years. They're gonna start Spurge on his lifelong journey to live up to his namesake. It's the kids life goal now. Good luck, Spurge. I hope you escape and write a captivating tell all in 20 years.

This may be what Ben dreams of (a child preacher) but a lot will depend on what little Fishy turns out to be like.  He may be  a really bad speaker, like his dad.

[iweartanktops]

Sadly, I would like to point something out and publicly ask for an explanation, rather than make my own assumptions. 

Obviously in my post about my experience with police officers pointing guns at me, I outed myself as a minority. @JenniferJuniper down voted that post and went to another thread and down voted a rather benign, random post of mine. If you're interested, it's the, "When Things Fall Apart," thread. 

I'm curious about why. Why did you choose to do that? 

It's not the votes I care about, rather, the motivation behind doing so. 

@JenniferJuniper still nothing? 

[SassyPants]

Maybe a little OT but Did anyone catch Jessa saying she didnt change a single diaper the first week?

Jill claimed the exact same thing.

Isn't being a wife and mother their ONLY purpose in life? Weird.

[Rachel333]

Yeah, I think Stanton goes in my category of "last names that could kinda work as first names, but maybe would do better as middle names" names. Anderson, Spencer, Graham, Brooks, Carlin, Darcy, Kennedy, McKenna, Mackenzie, Sanders, and Martin are good last-names-as-first-names, IMO.

I've never heard of Sanders as a first name before. And I wouldn't have thought of Martin as a last name first. To me it's kind of in the same category as names like Thomas that I probably think of first as given names but are also common surnames.

I once saw a blog by a family who was clearly doing a presidential name theme with their kids. I think there was one boy, but I forget his name (Grant, maybe?) and the rest were all girls. It worked better than I would have thought. If I remember correctly they had Madison, Taylor, Lincoln, McKinley, and Reagan.

[roddma]

As far as supporting first time home birth goes, I dont think any of them have a choice. They are highly pressured to have home births. Anna clealry was in distress with Michael. Both Jill and jessa should have gone to the hospital. They were both low risk as far as we know. They get an idea how big their babies are i they went for a real OBGYN checkup. It gets me they think of babies as blessings and risk the life of the baby and their own. Jchelle got have 12 of hers in the hospital. someone mentioned the belly massage i think Jchelle said Boob massaged the uterus. Ewwww

It does seem off about Jill and jessa not changing diapers since it is their goal to be wives and mothers. Heck, Jana might as well adopt Spurge. Is it me or I dont see Jessa being very nurturing.She will love the kid and all, but I highly anticipate Jana being the 'mom'.

[Rachel333]

Didn't Jim Bob and Michelle encourage Josh and Anna not to try a home birth with McKynzie?

[Valerie3kids]

Didn't Jim Bob and Michelle encourage Josh and Anna not to try a home birth with McKynzie?

I do believe they questioned them as they did not know of the "plan" until Josh called them on the phone. Or that is how it was portrayed. I thought they had both lost their cookies supposedly changing to a home birth because their OB was on vacation and Anna wasn't comfortable with anyone else. So Josh delivers the baby? It seems like the woman who came over to help was not a midwife but their childbirth educator. Anna should have been transferred to the hospital for Michael as she was in distress. I just have trouble dealing with the seemingly lack of concern for both mother and child that these people have during childbirth. I just can't see taking the risk when you can have a natural delivery in a birthing center or hospital where help is available if needed.

[lascuba]

If Jill and Jessa are getting any pressure to homebirth, I don't think it's from their parents. If there's any good to be said about Michelle and Jim Bob, is that they never hesitated to seek out appropriate medical care. Michelle had a few homebirths only after several hospital births, and went back to the hospital for later births when those pregnancies became complicated. 

[Rachel333]

I do believe they questioned them as they did not know of the "plan" until Josh called them on the phone. Or that is how it was portrayed. I thought they had both lost their cookies supposedly changing to a home birth because their OB was on vacation and Anna wasn't comfortable with anyone else. So Josh delivers the baby? It seems like the woman who came over to help was not a midwife but their childbirth educator. Anna should have been transferred to the hospital for Michael as she was in distress. I just have trouble dealing with the seemingly lack of concern for both mother and child that these people have during childbirth. I just can't see taking the risk when you can have a natural delivery in a birthing center or hospital where help is available if needed.

Yep, she was the "doula for destiny" referenced in one of the user titles here, not an actual midwife. Her husband is a doctor and I know he accompanies her sometimes, but I'm not sure that was the case there.

Really irresponsible to not even have an actual medical professional there.

[silverspoons]

Didn't Jim Bob and Michelle encourage Josh and Anna not to try a home birth with McKynzie?

When Anna was 8 months pregnant and on the book tour or TLC trip on the bus, she was interviewed (not by TLC but by a fan) and she said she wanted homebirth. Anna said even though it is hard, she hoped to be a inspiration to women to try home birth. She did not seem like she was giving a Gothard canned answer and she really believed in home birth.

[Jingerbread]

Yes, this. i was thinking this too.  Those first weeks are exhausting. The other help would be great for cooking, cleaning, laundry, running errands etc. But newborn care generally falls to mom, at least if she's breastfeeding. Plus, these are precious bonding days. And it seems like she has a team of helpers, plus a stay at home husband. They have to be running out of things to do at this point.  Maybe they just want an excuse to be out of their parents constant supervision.

"The other help would be great for cooking, cleaning, laundry, running errands etc."

She has a husband.  Her husband doesn't have a job.  He should be doing those things, not other people.

[divadivine]

We had a baby baptized this morning named Stanton. At least they can call him Stan. There is nothing you can do w/Spurgeon.

I work with a Stanton. He does go by Stan. Not a bad name. You can be Stanton when you need to sound important. 

[ksgranola1]

The Baby Story has to get permission to drag a film crew into the labor room. Sometimes they aren't welcome. TLC had to get permission for Anna, too. I think they were turned down. I really believe the whole homebirth drama w/McKenzie was contrived by TLC. Of course there was a midwife at her birth. TLC didn't want her shown b/c it made the Duggars look heroic.That was purely for the cameras. Phony as hell.

 

[August]

We had a baby baptized this morning named Stanton. At least they can call him Stan. There is nothing you can do w/Spurgeon.

except make baby fish

[withaj]

Yeah, I'm 35 and still call my parents Daddy and Momma.  It's definitely a southern thing.  I'm a professional with a master's degree and have a child of my own.

I'm in the South, too, and my parents are mostly Mom and Dad. If I'm feeling particularly fond of Dad (this is rare, haha), he's Daddy. My mom's (Southern) parents were Momma and Daddy, and my dad's (Yankee) parents were Mom and Pop.