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Hi everyone.  I've been a longtime member (mostly lurker) but I'm guessing my old account got deleted with one of the big changes so I have started a new one.  

I'm posting here because I am so curious why (seemingly) no one is talking about the connection with Trim Healthy Mama, Above Rubies, and Serene Allison's failed international adoptions and child abuse.  

I was considering ordering the book but stumbled upon all of the icky info about Serene's adoptions (http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/04/christian-evangelical-adoption-liberia?page=1).  

Am I just confused or are these the same people?  How did an abusive family like this rise to being so popular as authors without their past coming to light?

 

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apandaaries

I think their target audience either doesn't care, is willing to overlook problems, or is perfectly happy to blame the children for the failed adoptions (you know what it's like when children fail to be forever grateful for people "saving" them via adoption -- so irritating /sarcasm). 

A lot of people don't know about Hana Williams nor of her murder by her adoptive parents through their adherence to the Pearls' methods.  A lot of people don't know that Justin Harris "rehomed" his adopted daughters, one to a child rapist who abused her.  Some of those who know, aren't angry and don't blame the Harris family. 

People are willing to overlook a lot, and "forgive" a lot (especially if it's not truly their place to forgive, as they weren't the ones wronged).  People aren't always especially interested in research, or they don't trust something as "liberal" as the mainstream media (let alone Mother Jones, which I love, but to a fundie -- anathema).  

Their past is definitely out there, but a lot of people seem to prefer blind ignorance.  I can't explain why, but I'd imagine it's a combination of discomfort, an unwillingness to challenge what they've learned, and a lack of critical thinking.  

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Free at last

I had read about the adoption issues faced by many of these families, especially those that followed the Pearl's warped views. But I didn't know the link to THM which explains why it's more popular with homeschooling moms I know. Off to read how mainstream folks see the diet.....  It's insanely complicated and I knew the authors weren't credible dietitians. 

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refugee

Hi everyone.  I've been a longtime member (mostly lurker) but I'm guessing my old account got deleted with one of the big changes so I have started a new one.  

I'm posting here because I am so curious why (seemingly) no one is talking about the connection with Trim Healthy Mama, Above Rubies, and Serene Allison's failed international adoptions and child abuse.  

I was considering ordering the book but stumbled upon all of the icky info about Serene's adoptions (http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/04/christian-evangelical-adoption-liberia?page=1).  

Am I just confused or are these the same people?  How did an abusive family like this rise to being so popular as authors without their past coming to light?

 

I hope it's not considered thread hijacking, but I wonder the same thing about Paul and Gena  Suarez and The Old Schoolhouse magazine,  and Heidi St. Johns' support.

P.s. I can't understand my homeschooling friends' enthusiasm for THM.  It sounds insanely complicated to me. 

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Coldwinterskies

I would think most of the people who support this stuff would be cut from the same cloth of fundiedom. The only person I know who got into that Trim Healthy Mama stuff is herself a fundie (we just recently had a minor argument on Facebook because I gently suggested that, contrary to an article she posted, the Large Hadron collider is NOT going to destroy the world as foretold by Revelations, to give you a sense of how deeply fundie this person is).  

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I'd like to leave this on my library's review feature:

"Read "The Child Catchers" by Kathryn Joyce to find out how Serene treats her adopted children.  Do not listen to these people for advice on anything."

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nelliebelle1197

Didn't the son of one of the people heavily involved with Old Schoolhouse write an expose somewhere a few years back?

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foreign fundie

I'd like to leave this on my library's review feature:

"Read "The Child Catchers" by Kathryn Joyce to find out how Serene treats her adopted children.  Do not listen to these people for advice on anything."

Child catchers was a real eye opener to me. I had considered adoption before, but after reading that I realized how hard it is to do it in a 'clean' way. It was a heart breaking book. And the stories about fundies adopting whole armies of traumatized warzone kids were beyond believe. Adoption as mission? I had honestly not though people could be that naive.

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browncoatslytherin

i've only heard of thm whenever zsucifer mentions it, but i honestly hadn't really looked into it at all (from what i've read about it on zsu's blog, it sounds kinda complicated, and me no likey complicated stuffs, so fuck that noise). i didn't realize it had a little bit more sinister connection, thanks for the post! looks like i have another rabbit hole to go down. :D

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GenerationCedarchip

I think with THM, the sisters have done a good job of appearing more mainstream (esp. in the newest books). If you are part of the Above Rubies crowd, you'll see the books hawked there. However, the reverse isn't true. The THM books don't promote Above Rubies and its related materials.I know more than a few crunchy, healthy-living types who are not at all fundie but who are into THM. They don't mention Above Rubies or Quiverfull in the books from what I understand, so it's possible to get into that eating plan without really knowing that the creators are active in fundie circles.

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browncoatslytherin

I think with THM, the sisters have done a good job of appearing more mainstream (esp. in the newest books). If you are part of the Above Rubies crowd, you'll see the books hawked there. However, the reverse isn't true. The THM books don't promote Above Rubies and its related materials.I know more than a few crunchy, healthy-living types who are not at all fundie but who are into THM. They don't mention Above Rubies or Quiverfull in the books from what I understand, so it's possible to get into that eating plan without really knowing that the creators are active in fundie circles.

that's odd that cross-promotion only goes one way, though i suppose they probably want to be exposed to the widest readership possible. still...kinda smacks a bit of hypocrisy, no? i mean, if they are devoted fundies, wouldn't they want to share their faith-based stuff in every way they can?

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defraudingjezebel

I didn't realize the Trim Healthy Mama and Above Rubies connection. All I know about THM is from Erika Shupe, who lives and breathes by those rules. I can't really knock it, because I know firsthand that if you enjoy eating a certain way and it makes you feel good... then by all means, go at it. 

I can't help but cringe when I read about (predominantly white) Christians adopting kids from other countries and accumulating them like they're some kind of collectible trinket. While on one hand they may have a more comfortable and less traumatic life with these families, I do get creeped out by the sentiments that drive these people. Its a very paternalistic, neo-colonial, civilizing mission kind of thing. There's usually a "we're going to civilize the heathen" overtone to it that makes me feel bad for the kids. 

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When I was a foster parent we had a teenage boy that had been adopted from another country along with his brother. Parents were fundie lite. They had been adopted at probably 7 & 9 and then been shoved into christian school. Both of the boys had trouble adjusting (older brother had been in and out of placement as well). The parents also adopted two girls from the same country but made sure to get them younger so that they wouldn't rebel like the bad older kids.

 

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older than allosaurs

Serene's adoptions, as described in The Child Catchers, were not just naive, not just convert-the-heathen oriented, but also racist to the core. Creepy, infuriating, stuff.

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foreign fundie

Serene's adoptions, as described in The Child Catchers, were not just naive, not just convert-the-heathen oriented, but also racist to the core. Creepy, infuriating, stuff.

It was wrong on many levels. But the whole idea of adopting children as a mission strategy, I found bizarre and was completely new to me. Taking a child into your home is such a life changing thing for all involved. And a child away from everything he knows is extremely vulnerable. All sorts of care needs to be taken to protect it from further hurt. Having highy unsuitable people adopt large numbers of very damaged children as a mission strategy is dellusional to a degree I had not thought even fundies capable of.

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Wow, I had no idea but I guess I should have guessed if Erika *smile* liked it so much.

I wonder if people would buy my Happy Heathens diet?  

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Crocoduck

Wow, I had no idea but I guess I should have guessed if Erika *smile* liked it so much.

I wonder if people would buy my Happy Heathens diet?  

I would buy your Happy Heathens diet! Be sure to include copious amounts of alcohol and donuts.

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apandaaries

I think with THM, the sisters have done a good job of appearing more mainstream (esp. in the newest books). If you are part of the Above Rubies crowd, you'll see the books hawked there. However, the reverse isn't true. The THM books don't promote Above Rubies and its related materials.I know more than a few crunchy, healthy-living types who are not at all fundie but who are into THM. They don't mention Above Rubies or Quiverfull in the books from what I understand, so it's possible to get into that eating plan without really knowing that the creators are active in fundie circles.

I did not know that more mainstream mamas were into this b.s.  I'd only heard of it on fundie blogs or Instagram -- Zsu, Erika, and Jessa posted a dinner she made following their plan, too.  How disturbing to think that these horrible people are getting enriched by savvier marketing. 

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church_of_dog

Azure Standard has started carrying some THM products (maybe Zsu suggested it to them?).  One of my customers recently ordered a case of some of their noodles and gave me a small pack.  I haven't tried it yet.

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Grimalkin

I don't know anybody in real life who practices THM. I thought it was fundie too. I think a diet whose name targets only women, and specifically mothers is just odd anyway. If I did follow it I would never admit it, so maybe nobody wants to talk about it because of the name. It is a silly name and sounds so gimmicky, and I kind of am bored about hearing peoples diets.

    I don't really know much about the rules anyway.

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I was aware of the Above Rubies connection because I've been around that vile and stupid magazine since childhood! My Mom got it and I would read it as a child. Then my Mom signed me up for it when I started having kids and despite my attempts to cancel it still keeps showing up. I despise that magazine and its half truth stories and horrible medical advice and how anyone outside their acceptable lifestyle (i.e. stay at home, have far too many children, don't see doctors, be submissive, etc) is viewed poorly. In the early days I would read it and come away feeling so depressed and horrible. It was in no way encouraging. Some of the advice that has been endorsed is borderline criminal, IMO.

When THM came out I recognized the names and stayed far away. A great many people in my homeschool co-op have done THM and they are pretty mainstream Christian, though some verge fundie-lite. Like any other diet that makes you think and be conscious of your food,  it can work but ultimately most people get tired of the rules and go back to normal eating. At least that has been my experience with the people I've seen try. Its also somewhat expensive and complicated with all the artificial sweeteners and recommended special ingredients. 

I think its quite telling that they don't advertise the connection to Above Rubies. They have to realize that a large number of THM adherents wouldn't agree with Above Rubies or Serene's history.

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sawasdee

Is it not necessary to have a Home Study by a social worker prior to adoption? I can't see how these people would have passed a normal home study inspection. If there is no such study, is it easily possible for anyone, even paedophiles, to adopt from overseas, if the rules in that country are somewhat lax? I cannot understand the acquisition of children entailing less background checking than the better animal shelters require from prospective new owners!

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Grimalkin

I just looked up THM and it looks like they just complicated the fuck out of clean eating. I think the attraction of clean eating was not counting, weighing, or measuring, and being able to eat fruit and other healthy carbs without guilt. It seems to mbine the worst of the two main diet plans. you either count weigh and measure, or you stick to whole foods. Here you stick to the whole foods but have to still worry about fat and carbs.

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