Rant on Islam comments

[VelociRapture]

That is fine by me. When you scroll up a bit or go to previous page, you will notice that some people call me a bigot and a racist. You think that is okay and contributes to a civilised conversation? It is the easiest way to cut short a discussion by lack of arguments. Again, I couldn't care less what people, or you in particular think of me and if you want out by all means you won't be missed at least not by me.

Unlike others who have posted, I've never seen you make a comment like this before... I honestly can't believe you just wrote something like that. Normally I've found your posts to be intelligent and informative.

I know it's not fun to be told you're coming across as a racist if you honestly don't intend to come across that way - and I'm sure there may be a bit of a culture clash going on here too. It wasn't fun for me when a poster stated there were posters (likely meaning me) who were attempting to justify child rape earlier in this thread... But instead of posting something truly nasty back I explained my comments again and then walked away because it was clear the conversation wasn't going to get better and there are other topics people seemed to want to discuss (and for their part, the other poster did the same as well.)

But that comment you made was just so wrong in so many ways. I'm really very surprised to see something like this posted here and posted by you specifically.

[FundieFarmer]

But it is correct. You also tried to shut me down by essentially calling me racist. The absolute absurdity of it is I have explained why that is absolutely incorrect and the retort is to keep arguing racism.

I didn't mean to like your post, and tapa won't let me remove it.

"Essentially call[ing] [you] racist" is not the same thing as outright calling you a racist, and I don't believe I mentioned racism as I've been discussing religion all along and that is independent of a single race. I do stand by what I said before about your beliefs and statements.

Perhaps you're confusing me with someone else.

[Terrie]

I don't know about you, but when I think of the Western World I am thinking about the values. Things like democracy, human rights, free thought and free enterprise to name a few. I am not thinking about skin color. At all. That is absurd. While Japan is part of the "east" I would still say it is part of the western world in the modern sense. Iran and Saudi Arabia? No.

Saying you are a "citizen of the world" is a pretty "Western" thing to say. Globalization makes it pretty easy to say and do that, given that said part of the world is accepting of the same idea. Globalization is generally seen as a threat in the Islamic world.

Let me see if I can get this straight. "Islamophobia"" is a made-up, nonsense word. "Islamic culture" is a real and true thing, even though no one agrees on what it is. And "Western World" now means "Western values," even though the phrase "Western values" already exists and "Western World" has always meant European countries and their colonies who went on to base their culture on Europe.

It's like talking to Humpty Dumpty. Your string of logic is now offically one of the dumbest things I have ever heard in almost twenty years. Please stop before it becomes the dumbest I've heard.

[PregnantPornStar]

Let me see if I can get this straight. "Islamophobia"" is a made-up, nonsense word. "Islamic culture" is a real and true thing, even though no one agrees on what it is. And "Western World" now means "Western values," even though the phrase "Western values" already exists and "Western World" has always meant European countries and their colonies who went on to base their culture on Europe.

It's like talking to Humpty Dumpty. Your string of logic is now offically one of the dumbest things I have ever heard in almost twenty years. Please stop before it becomes the dumbest I've heard.

Of course I wouldn't want to post the dumbest thing you have ever heard.

But truly, I am sorry this concept is something you do not understand or that you are attempting to insult me to deflect from the points made. That doesn't progress a discussion or win an argument.

[ShepherdontheRock]

Hey, does anyone here have any experience using a base coat top coat 2 in 1 nail polish? Because i read somewhere that that was bad, but they may have been being paid by the nail polish companies that want you to buy an individual top coat and base coat.

[VelociRapture]

Hey, does anyone here have any experience using a base coat top coat 2 in 1 nail polish? Because i read somewhere that that was bad, but they may have been being paid by the nail polish companies that want you to buy an individual top coat and base coat.

I usually don't have the patience for painting my nails. When I do though, I just use a two-in-one. I honestly have no idea if that's bad or not, but I paint them so rarely that I figure it doesn't really matter.

[ShepherdontheRock]

I usually don't have the patience for painting my nails. When I do though, I just use a two-in-one. I honestly have no idea if that's bad or not, but I paint them so rarely that I figure it doesn't really matter.

i mean, regardless the nail polish doesnt last very long

[sawasdee]

Wish I could stop biting my nails, and have enough to paint...

[morri]

I have to say i am feeling verty shariad. NOT.

I live in an area with a fair share of migrants or people that are descended from migrants from the middle east/turkey area.

Positives: I have got a butcher 5 min walk which has excellent meat. (esp lamb, German without migrant background dont seem to be crazy for lamb) oh and cheap , good quality rice, and big jars of herebs instead those tiny ones.

Also got a kiosk (like a convenience store) right around the corner which is open every day and has all I need.

Any negatives? They are not as environmentally aware as others.

[ShepherdontheRock]

I really like painting my nails. I don't like constantly having to keep them relatively short when mine seem to grow really fast. But nail polish flakes or chips within a week anyway.

I just stopped getting them professionally painted bc I hate having to explain I need my nails short bc I play a musical instrument that requires short nails. Ack.

[latraviata]

I didn't mean to like your post, and tapa won't let me remove it.

"Essentially call[ing] [you] racist" is not the same thing as outright calling you a racist, and I don't believe I mentioned racism as I've been discussing religion all along and that is independent of a single race. I do stand by what I said before about your beliefs and statements.

Perhaps you're confusing me with someone else.

I never said you called me a racist. I have been called a racist and a bigot o this very thread. Perhaps the whole KKK thing is an open nerve in US society as someone mentioned, well calling a French/Dutch woman wit a maternal jewish grandmother a bigot and a racist has pretty much the same effect and on many Europeans for that matter, but that is okay.

And then, the above, nobody said I am a bigot or a racist, no I said bigot and racist things, is of course ridiculous, like I hate the sin but I love the sinner concept, well I don't buy that.

All these references (mentioned by the various participants) to the so called "intelligent conversation" well, as long as I agree withe everybody we keep it intelligent and when I disagree it suddenly isn't intelligent anymore? Comparisons with christianity, European courts 600 years ago, the crusades and the bible as cruel as the koran are not viable arguments, nor are questioning all the sources. Another clincher in the discussion, I don't agree, so the sources must be wrong.

As an atheist I resent all religions in particular the islam, again the multicultural society in Europe has failed, as I said left and right agree upon that. I am very, very worried about Europe's future.

Conclusion, again in general, I don't agree, so you are a bigot, I don't agree so the sources you use are laughable, I don't agree, so this can't be an intelligent conversation.

[morri]

Everyone that is white is racist, me included. Whether you are a whitist too is a different matter, but the current culture perpetuates racism.

anyway:

http://thoughtleader.co.za/gillianschut ... te-people/

http://thoughtleader.co.za/gillianschut ... whiteness/

feel free to read this. Whether it is about white racism towards blacks or racism towards middle eastern, it is usually dehumanising. That s what the aim is by grouping, them to dehumanise so you dont need to feel pity if something happens to them, dont need to empathise when they just travelled 1000km to escape from a barren war torn country , in questioanble transport, to somewhere they have connections.

[FundieFarmer]

It's not THAT you were disagreeing, it's HOW. (On tapa, so caps for emphasis, not yelling.) When you described your experience, I said I understood why that would give you a negative impression and answered to that, though I disagreed. I responded in a conversational manner. You later made a really inappropriate comment in response to someone else's comment, and that's what set off the anger from everyone. It was really inappropriate regardless if you're in America or Europe. For many of us whose families who are both from the U.S. and fought or died in WWII, it is especially sensitive on both levels. Otherwise, the conversation has been just that- a conversation.

I also said people weren't throwing out "you're a racist" unjustly. I stand by that. They aren't saying that because you disagree- they're saying that because you're espousing racist ideals. Can you not see that it's not about disagreement but instead about the very incendiary, hateful words that have fallen from your mouth in this thread?

[PregnantPornStar]

I have to say i am feeling verty shariad. NOT.

I live in an area with a fair share of migrants or people that are descended from migrants from the middle east/turkey area.

Positives: I have got a butcher 5 min walk which has excellent meat. (esp lamb, German without migrant background dont seem to be crazy for lamb) oh and cheap , good quality rice, and big jars of herebs instead those tiny ones.

Also got a kiosk (like a convenience store) right around the corner which is open every day and has all I need.

Any negatives? They are not as environmentally aware as others.

When I lived in Germany (I lived in more than one part of Germany) I didn't have all bad experiences with those from the ME/turkey. Butchers or, of course Döner. I became quite close with the family who ran one of the Döner shops in my town. The butcher, it honestly depended what I was looking for. My German butcher would order me anything I wanted and really didn't charge much more than the Turkish butcher.

Negative...a group of Turkish kids had my ten year old daughter trapped in an old phone booth because they wanted her candy she got at Rewe, a group of kids were setting fires to bushes and mailboxes. One ended up at our house. I have more stories, but the vulgar comments when walking...even when I had kids with me, well, they were some of the most alarming comments I have ever experienced. My daughter experienced even worse when we were swimming. She was 11 at the time. I have a ton of stories from other friends. I wish I could say I never had a negative experience, but that isn't so.

That being said, I wouldn't say I felt like I was under Sharia. I loved living in Europe.

[Terrie]

I never said you called me a racist. I have been called a racist and a bigot o this very thread. Perhaps the whole KKK thing is an open nerve in US society as someone mentioned, well calling a French/Dutch woman wit a maternal jewish grandmother a bigot and a racist has pretty much the same effect and on many Europeans for that matter, but that is okay.

And then, the above, nobody said I am a bigot or a racist, no I said bigot and racist things, is of course ridiculous, like I hate the sin but I love the sinner concept, well I don't buy that.

All these references (mentioned by the various participants) to the so called "intelligent conversation" well, as long as I agree withe everybody we keep it intelligent and when I disagree it suddenly isn't intelligent anymore? Comparisons with christianity, European courts 600 years ago, the crusades and the bible as cruel as the koran are not viable arguments, nor are questioning all the sources. Another clincher in the discussion, I don't agree, so the sources must be wrong.

As an atheist I resent all religions in particular the islam, again the multicultural society has failed, as I said left and right agree upon that. I am very, very worried about Europe's future.

Conclusion, again in general, I don't agree, so you are a bigot, I don't agree so the sources you use are laughable, I don't agree, so this can't be an intelligent conversation.

I'm not sure Europe has ever really had a multicultural society to have fail. To be blunt, there's a reason fascism has only ever been found in Europe. A nationalistic mentality is not compatible with a multicultural society. And while I don't deny there's a broad nationalistic streak in American politics, it's association with racism as it becomes more extreme is recognized. The real debate is where the line is, not that it exists.

[Boogalou]

Humans of New York is starting what looks to be like a very interesting series on telling the stories of migrants and refugees in Europe. I think these stories make the situation a lot more real and personal rather than just reading statistics. https://www.facebook.com/humansofnewyork?fref=ts

Has multiculturalism failed? I must have missed that memo. I have always lived within a few hours of Toronto, one of the most multicultural cities in the world, and have visited there quite regularly. I never thought of Toronto (or the Greater Toronto Area) as a failure. For the most part it's a pretty great place to visit. I wouldn't want to live there, but that's because of the traffic and the high rent, not because of multiculturalism. Toronto's not perfect but I don't think things would improve if you kicked out everyone who wasn't part of some monoculture (although, in Canada, I don't know how you would determine what that monoculture is).

Also, if several people over the course of several conversations have said what you are saying sounds racist it might be because you are saying racist things.

[FundieFarmer]

I love HONY. The image he just posted on Instagram brought tears to my eyes.

[happy atheist]

I didn't mean to like your post, and tapa won't let me remove it.

Since that was the only like I was able to clear it for you. If there's more than one it's not possible for me to remove them selectively.

[FakePigtails]

Nothing says "I'm not a bigot" like:

As an atheist I resent all religions in particular the islam

[FundieFarmer]

Since that was the only like I was able to clear it for you. If there's more than one it's not possible for me to remove them selectively.

Thanks, Happy Atheist! I appreciate it.

[samurai_sarah]

When I lived in Germany (I lived in more than one part of Germany) I didn't have all bad experiences with those from the ME/turkey. Butchers or, of course Döner. I became quite close with the family who ran one of the Döner shops in my town. The butcher, it honestly depended what I was looking for. My German butcher would order me anything I wanted and really didn't charge much more than the Turkish butcher.

Negative...a group of Turkish kids had my ten year old daughter trapped in an old phone booth because they wanted her candy she got at Rewe, a group of kids were setting fires to bushes and mailboxes. One ended up at our house. I have more stories, but the vulgar comments when walking...even when I had kids with me, well, they were some of the most alarming comments I have ever experienced. My daughter experienced even worse when we were swimming. She was 11 at the time. I have a ton of stories from other friends. I wish I could say I never had a negative experience, but that isn't so.

That being said, I wouldn't say I felt like I was under Sharia. I loved living in Europe.

When living in Germany, what did you actually do to integrate?

[PregnantPornStar]

When living in Germany, what did you actually do to integrate?

Meaning what? My experience may have been a bit different than most...what in particular are you asking?

My husband is in the military, so we were stationed there. We did not live on base, but on the German economy. My husband deployed to Iraq about two months after we moved to Germany. I didn't know anyone, so it was me, my dog and two kids. My oldest was 10 and my youngest was 5 months old when he deployed. The second time I ever drove in Europe was after dropping him off to deploy.

I tried my best to learn the language, I befriended my neighbors, joined German playgroups, went to local fests, did almost all of my shopping at German stores (we always had the commissary as an option) and made a point to respect cultural differences.

We had neighbors who treated us like family.

My son attended German Kindergarten when he was older, learning to speak fluent German. My German is pretty lousy, but I would volunteer at school events. I remember selling Glühwien after the St Martin's Day parade. It was so appreciated and his school and other German parents were impressed that I jumped in and helped. I was told "most families we have that don't speak German as their first language never help" He could have gone to school on post, but we choose to send him to German school.

I am not sure what you are looking for or what your point is.

[MatthewDuggar]

Sorry Latravatitsia

[latraviata]

Nothing says "I'm not a bigot" like:

Let me tell you something Fakepigtails. Apart from the fact I did actually lived in islamic countries and believe me observing this culture from pretty much within isn't exactly something to cheer you up, human rights hardly exist, just to summarise the general situation.

The non Western immigrants in Europe are predominantly from rural areas, not educated, the women often illiterate. When they came to Netherlands in the sixties we thought, well this will change over time, their children get educated and everything will be fine and dandy. That was wishful thinking. It actually became worse. As I stated before, jews are fleeing from the county, they are no longer safe because of the blatant islamic anti semitism as described in the koran, "jews are like apes and pigs." Gays are attacked abused and bullied out of their neighbourhoods, young women are harassed on the streets by young muslim men hissing whore. The unemployment and dependency on welfare is out of proportion The demands are ridiculous, paintings have been removed from public places, because they were offensive because of the nudes, pigs and whatever is offensive to the islamic soul. The list goes on and these are not just incidents it is structural. Even one very orthodox imam who was invited to be interviewed in a television talk show, demanded that all the women and female guests were removed from the studio, wine and beer had to be taken from the table, an incident, no this happens on a daily basis. The appeasers and apologists are to blame in the first place of course, because they give in, because we don't anybody to feel offended.

Only in the year 2013 we had 500 honour killings and at some point, some people suggested to adjust the law to grant leniency because this was a cultural case. Fortunately, it never happened.

North African youngsters are a huge problem, gang rapes, burglary, robbery murders they represent a very large percentage of the prison population. These are facts, I don't make this up, why would I? I spent my entire adult life treating and helping children, I am a pieceable human being.

Import brides aren't exactly a contribution to the integration of muslims. The girls are very young many times they are locked up in their houses because their spouses don't want the to go outside and again this isn't an exception, we call them hidden brides and for social services it is a real problem to do something about it, because of the death threads.As an expert witness I had to assess a 16 year old Turkish girl who killed her baby, because of the isolation, being locked up, no social interaction whatsoever and she snapped, I have seen the pictures of that baby, it is 15 years ago and it still haunts me, including this poor lethargic abused young mother. Any idea how many people in the Netherlands have 24 hrs security because they had the audacity to even ask questions about this culture and the consequences let alone criticism? And don't give me the song and dance of, it is a cultural thing, cultures are defined by their religion.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/o ... ism-failed

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/2219/ ... ulturalism

http://www.academia.edu/4410562/We_Have ... nt_Nations

The numbers of welfare recipients by nationality, official stats of the Dutch Ministry of Social Affairs.

https://ejbron.wordpress.com/2015/09/24 ... errijking/

I am going to use fire red for my toenails.

[samurai_sarah]

Meaning what? My experience may have been a bit different than most...what in particular are you asking?

My husband is in the military, so we were stationed there. We did not live on base, but on the German economy. My husband deployed to Iraq about two months after we moved to Germany. I didn't know anyone, so it was me, my dog and two kids. My oldest was 10 and my youngest was 5 months old when he deployed. The second time I ever drove in Europe was after dropping him off to deploy.

I tried my best to learn the language, I befriended my neighbors, joined German playgroups, went to local fests, did almost all of my shopping at German stores (we always had the commissary as an option) and made a point to respect cultural differences.

We had neighbors who treated us like family.

My son attended German Kindergarten when he was older, learning to speak fluent German. My German is pretty lousy, but I would volunteer at school events. I remember selling Glühwien after the St Martin's Day parade. It was so appreciated and his school and other German parents were impressed that I jumped in and helped. I was told "most families we have that don't speak German as their first language never help" He could have gone to school on post, but we choose to send him to German school.

I am not sure what you are looking for or what your point is.

I meant what I said.