Joshley Madison Part 5 - Rehab and women and porn - oh my!

[lascuba]

It is theorised that this behaviour pattern is common among children who hold an internal belief within themselves that they are a bad/wrong/dirty/disgusting/unworthy person. By acting out and "confessing" their wrongdoing, they receive punishment. This punishment delivers a certain satisfaction to the child, believing it confirms again what they suspected about themselves, that they are a bad person.

I'm in no way a psychologist or any other sort of therapist, but this makes so much sense to me. I think it also fits in with Christianity's theme of everything being forgiven with Christ--you sin, you get punished and accept Christ, the slate gets wiped clean, lather, rinse, repeat. I never thought what he did to his sisters and the current mess are related, but looking at it from this perspective, yeah, I can see where there's a common thread.

[Ellie]

Recently I stumbled upon this documentary on youtube:

(not breaking because youtube).

It's about juvenile sex offenders, and I think you will find it interesting, although I must warn you that the content is quite disturbing (they don't go into too much detail, but a lot is implied).

The central figure in the documentary had a very traumatic background, and he states that he did what he did not for sexual gratification of any kind at all, but for the feeling of being in control it gave him, the feeling of power he had because he could do this and get away with it. Disturbingly, he started molesting when he was just 8 (!) years old, and was only caught when he was 12.

This documentary made me think of Josh, when Joshgate 1 hit the news. It's one of the reasons I think that he too is a very disturbed, broken individual. This so-called rehab will NOT help him in any way at all.

That's why I feel sorry for Josh too. Teenage sex offenders are often young people who would have need some help in their life and who did not get it, or when it was too late. And it may be too late for things are taboo in some social classes. That reminds me a priest, maybe from a brotherhood celebrating latin mass, who took many times warning "his" parishioners that their children were not protected from being sexually disturbed (to say the least) for the sole sake they were coming from priviledged families. He had heard many horrid things when hearing confessions, but parents didn't want to hear that their dear children from priviledged circle and with a good old religious teaching could be subjected to such sexual temptations. There are disastrous consequences, but it can't happen in good religious families, can it?

[SinConfessRepeat]

Josh's OKCupid profile fascinates me. I'm still staggered by the mental gymnastics involved in the question and response "Do you think it is possible for someone to be an atheist and still have a solid moral framework by which to live? No" on the profile he (a 'moral' Christian) is using to cheat on his wife. He is claiming that Christians are more moral than atheists during his preparations to commit an immoral act. *Shakes head*

That of course pairs well with "How often do you keep your promises? Always". Ummm, Josh you are filling out these questions in an attempt to break your promise of being faithful to your wife. Argh.

But the one that keeps coming back to my mind is "Do you often make jokes that offend more uptight people? Yes". Who are these 'more uptight people'? I think many people would consider fundamentalist Christians to be among the most uptight people they might encounter. He also stated that he didn't generally enjoy crude humor and dirty jokes.

So what are these jokes and who would be uptight about them? I can't help wondering if they are the sort of jokes considered non-PC - jokes about a woman's place, people with disabilities, people that don't meet the strict gender norms of fundamentalists. And the 'uptight people' are the liberals who like to make sure that people don't get hassled, ridiculed and put down for that. It's the only thing that makes sense to me. Although, as mentioned above his responses show a big cognitive dissonance so I'm probably engaging in a fool's game trying to make it make sense.

[Jana814]

I'm expecting in a few months for other women to come out and say Josh had an affair with them as well. Josh needs real therapy not Gothard or the bible to cure him. Anna better get frequent std tests and pray she doesn't get anything.

Agree with everything u wrote!!

[nokidsmom]

Totally agree with you guys, 100%. IMO, the Duggars NEED Josh to have an "addiction," as that is the only possible way something like this could have happened to "them." Because, of course, there is no way his behaviors were something he just wanted to do- it was something Satan was making him do! The thought that he was actually enjoying the debauchery is too much for them- but they can handle/spin the idea that Satan created a fortress in his heart, causing him an addiction that compelled him to repeatedly cheat on Anna- against his will.

I know that many people suffer from all sorts of addictions and I have great sympathy for most of those people. But I just don't buy that Josh has all these "addictions;" he definitely has issues that need to be dealt with by medical and educated professionals, but I think a large number of those problems come from the fact that he's probably just a round peg in a fundamentalist square hole. Not excusing his behavior in any way- but I do think he would have faired a lot better if he had been raised by a different set of parents.

Agree that had his upbringing been, well, your normal, mainstream upbringing and not the whackadoodle, fundie upbringing he would have been a lot better off. I am still of the belief that he is not happy with the life that has been foisted upon him and it has messed him up. I am not excusing the behavior, but his situation just screams that the fundie lifestyle is not working for him at all and this "rehab" business is just going to force him back into right, proper fundie roles that are not working, so it's a matter of time that he messes up (from a fundie perspective) yet again.

[browncoatslytherin]

Horrifying.

Not to mention if you are detoxing from drugs, there is no medical support.

So if you smack your head on the concrete floor during a seizure, you'd best hope Jesus is paying enough attention to swoop in and save you.

still catching up on this thread, but i highly doubt they deal with real drug addictions. the most drug activity they probably get is someone who occasionally smoked weed or popped an unnecessary pill once in a while.

[lascuba]

But the one that keeps coming back to my mind is "Do you often make jokes that offend more uptight people? Yes". Who are these 'more uptight people'? I think many people would consider fundamentalist Christians to be among the most uptight people they might encounter. He also stated that he didn't generally enjoy crude humor and dirty jokes.

So what are these jokes and who would be uptight about them? I can't help wondering if they are the sort of jokes considered non-PC - jokes about a woman's place, people with disabilities, people that don't meet the strict gender norms of fundamentalists. And the 'uptight people' are the liberals who like to make sure that people don't get hassled, ridiculed and put down for that. It's the only thing that makes sense to me. Although, as mentioned above his responses show a big cognitive dissonance so I'm probably engaging in a fool's game trying to make it make sense.

Yep, those are the types of jokes he's talking about. He's made cracks about owning a Hummer before, making fun of people for being concerned about the environment. Basically, he's your typical conservative/libertarian asshole.

ETA: I just noticed your username, SinConfessRepeat...love it!

[Marissap]

Josh's OKCupid profile fascinates me. I'm still staggered by the mental gymnastics involved in the question and response "Do you think it is possible for someone to be an atheist and still have a solid moral framework by which to live? No" on the profile he (a 'moral' Christian) is using to cheat on his wife. He is claiming that Christians are more moral than atheists during his preparations to commit an immoral act. *Shakes head*

That of course pairs well with "How often do you keep your promises? Always". Ummm, Josh you are filling out these questions in an attempt to break your promise of being faithful to your wife. Argh.

But the one that keeps coming back to my mind is "Do you often make jokes that offend more uptight people? Yes". Who are these 'more uptight people'? I think many people would consider fundamentalist Christians to be among the most uptight people they might encounter. He also stated that he didn't generally enjoy crude humor and dirty jokes.

So what are these jokes and who would be uptight about them? I can't help wondering if they are the sort of jokes considered non-PC - jokes about a woman's place, people with disabilities, people that don't meet the strict gender norms of fundamentalists. And the 'uptight people' are the liberals who like to make sure that people don't get hassled, ridiculed and put down for that. It's the only thing that makes sense to me. Although, as mentioned above his responses show a big cognitive dissonance so I'm probably engaging in a fool's game trying to make it make sense.

I think this is why many feel he has deep deep issues. Not going to throw out any terms but many people with severe personality or emotional disorders feel or say things like this as well...

[nokidsmom]

I'm in no way a psychologist or any other sort of therapist, but this makes so much sense to me. I think it also fits in with Christianity's theme of everything being forgiven with Christ--you sin, you get punished and accept Christ, the slate gets wiped clean, lather, rinse, repeat. I never thought what he did to his sisters and the current mess are related, but looking at it from this perspective, yeah, I can see where there's a common thread.

This makes sense to me as well, and believe it or not, Mr. No were discussing Josh's situation this AM. He mentioned, without my mentioning this thread, that the concept of how you are a sinner, not worthy, need to be forgiven, etc. theme within Christianity and particularly his family's brand of Christianity would instill a sense of "toxic shame" within a person. When you look at Josh's situation from this angle, yep, it is a common theme.

This is why he needs the serious help, not this "rehab" business. This is just more of the same stuff that brought it all on in the first place.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

I'm in no way a psychologist or any other sort of therapist, but this makes so much sense to me. I think it also fits in with Christianity's theme of everything being forgiven with Christ--you sin, you get punished and accept Christ, the slate gets wiped clean, lather, rinse, repeat. I never thought what he did to his sisters and the current mess are related, but looking at it from this perspective, yeah, I can see where there's a common thread.

Yep. They think Jesus is a big ol' etch-a-sketch. Endless supply of fresh starts.

[TL;DR]

Agree that had his upbringing been, well, your normal, mainstream upbringing and not the whackadoodle, fundie upbringing he would have been a lot better off. I am still of the belief that he is not happy with the life that has been foisted upon him and it has messed him up. I am not excusing the behavior, but his situation just screams that the fundie lifestyle is not working for him at all and this "rehab" business is just going to force him back into right, proper fundie roles that are not working, so it's a matter of time that he messes up (from a fundie perspective) yet again.

Completely agree that it's going to just be relapse after relapse for him from here. Also wanna add that while it might not have been about sexual gratification before, I think that grown Josh likes what can happen when he's getting stuff the way he likes it...and so I suspect that he'll become much better at hiding from being caught. After all, Situation 1.0, he was apparently confessing left and right, just after everything happened. The world didn't find out 'til later. Situation 2.0? Didn't "confess" 'til the world knew.

[TL;DR]

still catching up on this thread, but i highly doubt they deal with real drug addictions. the most drug activity they probably get is someone who occasionally smoked weed or popped an unnecessary pill once in a while.

And saints preserve anyone with a true drug problem who managed to wander over there...

[thoughtful]

So what are these jokes and who would be uptight about them? I can't help wondering if they are the sort of jokes considered non-PC - jokes about a woman's place, people with disabilities, people that don't meet the strict gender norms of fundamentalists. And the 'uptight people' are the liberals who like to make sure that people don't get hassled, ridiculed and put down for that. It's the only thing that makes sense to me. Although, as mentioned above his responses show a big cognitive dissonance so I'm probably engaging in a fool's game trying to make it make sense.

As lascuba said, that's about it (and I also love your user name!).

There was an Instagram picture and caption about short buses. The image seems to be gone, but here is an FJ post about it, which includes the comments:

viewtopic.php?f=87&t=5891&start=820#p175347

The picture and Josh's caption are still visible here:

http://ohnotheydidnt.livejournal.com/76208778.html

[JenniferJuniper]

Completely agree that it's going to just be relapse after relapse for him from here. Also wanna add that while it might not have been about sexual gratification before, I think that grown Josh likes what can happen when he's getting stuff the way he likes it...and so I suspect that he'll become much better at hiding from being caught. After all, Situation 1.0, he was apparently confessing left and right, just after everything happened. The world didn't find out 'til later. Situation 2.0? Didn't "confess" 'til the world knew.

I don't know for sure of course, but I think there was a whole lot more to Situation 1. And that there may have been a lot more that happened between Situations 1 and 2.

Why? Because the Duggars are liars and we really only know them from sanitized or completely fake sources such as TLC, Today Show, People when it was on their side, etc. Only when Josh got access to the internet after his marriage did we see what a lazy, ignorant sloth he was through his postings. The stories we now know about came about through unusual happenstance. The molestation story came to light because the police didn't investigate when Josh was a minor. Had the original cop made a report like any other cop who wasn't a pedo friend of Jim Bob's, everything would have been addressed and sealed years before the report was made. And we only learned about his cheating because of a major security breach.

It just seems likely to me that Josh has done and possibly gotten away with all kinds of other shit in between molesting his sisters and cheating on his wife.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

As lascuba said, that's about it (and I also love your user name!).

There was an Instagram picture and caption about short buses. The image seems to be gone, but here is an FJ post about it, which includes the comments:

viewtopic.php?f=87&t=5891&start=820#p175347

The picture and Josh's caption are still visible here:

http://ohnotheydidnt.livejournal.com/76208778.html

I did not think I could have more contempt for this shitlord, but I see I was wrong.

[nokidsmom]

I don't know for sure of course, but I think there was a whole lot more to Situation 1. And that there may have been a lot more that happened between Situations 1 and 2.

Why? Because the Duggars are liars and we really only know them from sanitized or completely fake sources such as TLC, Today Show, People when it was on their side, etc. Only when Josh got access to the internet after his marriage did we see what a lazy, ignorant sloth he was through his postings. The stories we now know about came about through unusual happenstance. The molestation story came to light because the police didn't investigate when Josh was a minor. Had the original cop made a report like any other cop who wasn't a pedo friend of Jim Bob's, everything would have been addressed and sealed years before the report was made. And we only learned about his cheating because of a major security breach.

It just seems likely to me that Josh has done and possibly gotten away with all kinds of other shit in between molesting his sisters and cheating on his wife.

Oh yeah, I don't think for a minute that he behaved himself in between Situations 1 and 2. There's plenty we don't know about either situation and everything in between, I am taking that as a given.

[ArmchairTurnip]

browncoatslytherin wrote:

still catching up on this thread, but i highly doubt they deal with real drug addictions. the most drug activity they probably get is someone who occasionally smoked weed or popped an unnecessary pill once in a while.

That occurred to me, too! The bar for what fundies consider 'deviant' behavior is so low that three beers and a couple of Advil qualify you for this kind of program. And given the price tag, I have the feeling it's mostly low-level offenders from middle-class "good" families who end up enrolled. The literature makes it pretty clear that they aren't equipped to deal with anything more hardcore.

[theinvisiblegirl]

So I was reading this article about RU:

inquisitr.com/2369348/josh-duggars-christian-rehab-facility-using-him-for-free-labor/

And this threw me for a loop:

Talking about old habits and lifestyles is against God’s word and not permitted.

Of course this place won't allow him to talk about his old habits and lifestyles. Because repressing things has worked so well for Josh in the past.

[justbecause]

I reckon he will be the first. It may take some years, but I think he'll go.

I don't think he will go because besides his deviant sexual behavior (and I'm not minimizing it) he has not done anything that I can see that doesn't indicate that he is under JB's thumb. I think his dad has orchestrated his life and I don't think he has the balls not to be under his 'umbrella' of protection, per se.

Now, maybe JB will grow so disgusted that he pulls away from Josh, but I do not see Josh pulling away from the security of dad.

If he goes, my thought is he'll be disgraced from the family and shunned per se.

[Queen Of Hearts]

[

Yep, those are the types of jokes he's talking about. He's made cracks about owning a Hummer before, making fun of people for being concerned about the environment. Basically, he's your typical conservative/libertarian asshole.

Fixed that for you.

[Cleopatra7]

I did not think I could have more contempt for this shitlord, but I see I was wrong.

My guess is that Josh's type of "humor" involves punching down those who are weaker or more disadvantaged that he is: crude ethnic humor, the handicapped, LGBT people, women. He's offended by four-letter words (or so we've been told), but probably has no problem with telling jokes that reinforce harmful stereotypes.

[Fundie Bunny]

I don't get the joke. Can somebody explain it?

[lascuba]

Fixed that for you.

Yeah, no. While assholes come in all colors and political leanings, the "my jokes offend uptight people because I don't cater to PC nonsense" thing is pretty specific to conservatives and libertarians.

[Alicja]

Lord, he's not even going to an actual rehab center. It sounds like he's just doing community service? Didn't know that alone was a successful treatment for addiction.

[TL;DR]

Yeah, no. While assholes come in all colors and political leanings, the "my jokes offend uptight people because I don't cater to PC nonsense" thing is pretty specific to conservatives and libertarians.

I know quite a few folks on the other side of the political spectrum who have the same attitude. So I must respectfully disagree there.