Joshley Madison Part 5 - Rehab and women and porn - oh my!

[MakeItSo]

The RUHomes handbook is full of menacing rules.

ruhomes.org/wp-content/uploads/HOUSING_APPLICATION_Revised_January_29_FINAL.pdf

page 7 - church services: look up AND take notes!

No talking during services: eyes forward and no disruptions. Notes should be taken.

page 7 - church services: hope you have a strong bladder

Restrooms will only be allowed prior to leaving for services and between services.

page 8 - work detail - cracking the whip!

No sleeping or slacking off during work times.

page 9 - dress code for men goes into detail; for women...

Women’s dress is taught by our leadership and monitored closely by the steward.

page 10 - yummy cafeteria food

Negative remarks about food will not be tolerated. Prayer and fasting are a profitable substitute.

that tone...it's how I assume Jboob and Michelle talked to the kids behind cameras.

[alphagirlzk]

The hell isn't over once he gets out. He still has to go to meetings like AA.

[Dandruff]

Also I just got through the PDF -- why do the men get "personal time" one day a week but the women don't? :?

Maybe because the men are considered persons while the women are vessels.

[BlackSheep]

.snip.

For the second show the dates are April 17th/18th. On April 16th Josh tweeted about the DC metro. On April 18th he tweeted a picture of Marcus in the RV. On April 19th it looked like the family was at an airport headed to Big Sandy. This means he would've had to go to Philly on April 17th to see Danica. It's not impossible but also not very likely. With a 6 hour roundtrip from DC to Philly plus time for the show and seeing Danica after the show all while Anna is home packing up the kids for a long trip, I don't know how likely that is.

Josh probably flew there and back bodily, powered by his own ego and sense of importance.

[withaj]

This whole rehab situation reminds me of that 7th Heaven episode where Eric sends Simon to a psychologist because he had sex before marriage. The whole idea that the proper response to sin/being a shithead is to get someone psychiatric help is driving me nuts. Maybe Josh really does have a sex/porn addiction, but maybe he just needs to own up to being a shitty husband and hypocrite of his own accord.

Too bad we don't have enough Duggar rebels yet to cast in a revival of 7th Heaven... Harry Potter was much more fruitful :think:

[countressrascal]

JB is pimping Josh out again-Go to rehab then we will start a speaking tour so you can tell everyone how "JESUS & BIBLE" cured your addiction. They might even start their own program at TTH. Professionally speaking- the entire Duggar family need professional mental health help, like a majority of the fundie community.

[Cochise]

Like....I get that this might be great for Josh, but. Holy crap, what a nightmare to unleash upon the world. Famous USian fundie taking time for a "service" mission? Yikes. :( I can only see him racking up more victims, tbh.

I know what you mean. But I guess I was thinking that getting out of the country and away from JB and Michelle might be his one chance of saying "Oh SCREW the funless fundie bs! I want to get away from Mom and Dad so that when I want to look at porn or hang out with a floozie, no one is going to catch me and drag me into church and make me give some big totally insincere song and dance about how sorry I am and how I hope God and everybody in the congregation forgives me, then get my head buzzed and have to sweat my guts out doing "rehab" that's a total joke and doesn't change anything. I just want to get away from them! And I'm sorry about Anna and the kids, but I got roped into marriage way before I was ready. So STUFF it! I'm outta here! There's got to be some bar in Central America that needs a bartender! Or maybe there are pools that need cleaning! I don't care--just get me away from my family breathing down my neck!"

Jim Bob and Michelle, who can't admit failure, would try to sell that as "Josh doing the Lord's work in a Central American mission." That would be awful for Anna, in a way, but I kind of wish she'd never have to see his smug, chubby, utterly unsexy face again. If he left then she wouldn't have to blame herself for the marriage failing; he'd be the asshole who abandoned her and the kids.

[Janes Heir]

I know that as an INFP growing up fundie-lite I became aware of my skepticism around age nine, but also knew intuitively to hide any outward evidence of unbelief.

My mother was fond of saying, "If you love anything or anyone more than Jesus he will take that thing away from you, until you can only depend on him," and I spent countless nights lying awake when I was very little, to listen and make sure my dog hadn't stopped breathing. And eventually - because Beverly was always alive in the morning - I stopped believing her. But if she'd known that the words were no longer convincing, I wouldn't have put it past her to arrange an "accident" for Beverly, by way of an object lesson.

I'm so sorry! as a fellow INFP and dog lover, I can't imagine anything worse!

I, too, am enjoying the Myers Briggs analysis. Although INFPS may seem less logical than T's or J's, I think our idealism makes it easier for us to throw out the whole system once we start seeing flaws that strike at our sense of compassion and fairness. (Oddly, although I've gotten INFP three times taking the online test, I tend to come across as analytic and not especially emotional to people who don't know me well. I am definitely a Ravenclaw, to go back to HP references.)

ETA: The "post-rape depression" thing makes it totally clear that this is a fucked up shitty place. I don't swear much, but anyone who thinks the effects of rape should be treated by non-professionals with hard labor and authoritarian schedules is a very horrible kind of willfully ignorant.

[MakeItSo]

JB is pimping Josh out again-Go to rehab then we will start a speaking tour so you can tell everyone how "JESUS & BIBLE" cured your addiction. They might even start their own program at TTH. Professionally speaking- the entire Duggar family need professional mental health help, like a majority of the fundie community.

:shock: ...don't put ideas into their heads!!! :) I can just imagine JBoob mixing the KoolAid every morning for his inmates...errr "patients". :stir-pot:

[countressrascal]

I've been trying to compare the Danica Dillon Dates to Duggar social media.

Danica says she had sex with Smugger after her philly show and another show north of philly. These shows were on March 12-14th and April 17-18th.

On March 11th Josh was at an FRC event in Houston, TX

Between March 11th and March 15th the dugger family page posted several pictures of a family vacation in Texas. Josh is in several of these pictures but it's unclear if they were posted on the days they were taken. It's difficult to know if Josh left the vacation early to go back to DC. There was a christian film festival on March 14th-19th in Texas. Fjers on the Duggar Avation thread thought the family went to the festival but it was not confirmed. Also the Duggar plane was hopping around during that week but never went near DC or Philly.

For the second show the dates are April 17th/18th. On April 16th Josh tweeted about the DC metro. On April 18th he tweeted a picture of Marcus in the RV. On April 19th it looked like the family was at an airport headed to Big Sandy. This means he would've had to go to Philly on April 17th to see Danica. It's not impossible but also not very likely. With a 6 hour roundtrip from DC to Philly plus time for the show and seeing Danica after the show all while Anna is home packing up the kids for a long trip, I don't know how likely that is.

It is easy to prove or disprove with credit card statement-if he did used a hotel he would have presented a credit card for the room. They have the credit card number so track it. I am sure more will come out of the woodwork.I am waiting for dirt on the rest of the Duggar Clan to come out. Anyone who has it they could make some serious $$$.

[maxsmommy_06]

Hi, I've been a member for awhile, but this is my first post. My brother (who is 29)and I were talking about this whole deal earlier today and he said that it's sad that a guy his age had to resort to porn and molesting his own sisters to figure out girls. It's also sad that he was so desperate to try new things that he, as an adult had sneak around his family and basically pay a "stripper/porn star/escort" thousands of dollars to sleep with him. We were talking about how he could have just gone to some dive bar in another town and picked up some chick there. I think Josh thought (mistakenly) that a "pro" wouldn't share his dirty little secret. The poor boy has no clue as to how the real adult world works. Honestly, I also wonder if the reasons why he didn't use a condom were one:he's been taught birth control in ANY form is wrong and Two: In his perfect Duggar world there is no such thing as an STD or STI.

I have a feeling this thing is going to get really interesting very quickly!! If only they were smart enough to pay off all these girls to stop them from coming out of the wood work.

[mebeforee]

Why would a hotel provide that information? I'd think giving the public incriminating information about transactions by (slightly) high profile customers would totally destroy their client base...

[mebeforee]

Also, if Danica (or any other of the women he may/may not have slept with) paid for the room, it would tell us nothing.

[DuggaredOut]

About the rehab facility's rules....particularly the Conversation/Behavior rules;

"Talking about old habits and lifestyles is against God's word and is not permitted"

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't therapy require talking about this issues/problems/mindset/feelings?

The rule you quoted seems to be referring to casual conversation between residents outside of the "therapeutic" setting. I think what they're getting at is that they don't want these guys recounting their sexual adventures to each other as titillation. I've heard of similar rules at legit facilities.

Not that I'm trying to defend this so-called rehab program. It sounds like shite.

[Themiscyran]

I know what you mean. But I guess I was thinking that getting out of the country and away from JB and Michelle might be his one chance of saying "Oh SCREW the funless fundie bs! I want to get away from Mom and Dad so that when I want to look at porn or hang out with a floozie, no one is going to catch me and drag me into church and make me give some big totally insincere song and dance about how sorry I am and how I hope God and everybody in the congregation forgives me, then get my head buzzed and have to sweat my guts out doing "rehab" that's a total joke and doesn't change anything. I just want to get away from them! And I'm sorry about Anna and the kids, but I got roped into marriage way before I was ready. So STUFF it! I'm outta here! There's got to be some bar in Central America that needs a bartender! Or maybe there are pools that need cleaning! I don't care--just get me away from my family breathing down my neck!"... *smip post*

I do get that, but I'm still thinking about Josh's basic dynamic which seems abusive to me. Like, he's not healthy enough to even have carefree casual relationships without doing rape-y/abusive things, because his sense of gender/power/sex is so screwed up. Basically, I feel like he needs some de-programming that specifically addresses POWER before he can go hang in an idyllic location and truly get something out of it. Otherwise, he'll just be replicating his problems again and again, blaming his own predatory actions on women who dare to wear shorts or [insert whatever the usual attire in tropical places is! right here.] He needs serious help, but not what he is getting!

[Toothfairy]

I'm expecting in a few months for other women to come out and say Josh had an affair with them as well. Josh needs real therapy not Gothard or the bible to cure him. Anna better get frequent std tests and pray she doesn't get anything.

[SinConfessRepeat]

Sometime lurker, first time poster.

Regarding Josh's reference to allowing Satan to build a fortress in his heart,

Is it just me, or are there other people of a certain age who can hear Sting from Dream of the Blue Turtles?

"And if I built this fortress around your heart

Encircled you in trenches and barbed wire"

*Hums earworm created by Satan (as played by Sting)*

[Themiscyran]

Regarding Josh's reference to allowing Satan to build a fortress in his heart,

Is it just me, or are there other people of a certain age who can hear Sting from Dream of the Blue Turtles?

"And if I built this fortress around your heart

Encircled you in trenches and barbed wire"

*Hums earworm created by Satan (as played by Sting)*

Holy crap it is not just me! So oooooold and so entrenched in MtV/Satan! I found it here:

youtube.com/watch?v=OiPiRKbNCWY

Seems like there were other contexts re;British politics? No idea here. Not an obvious one like "Children's Crusade."

[Snarkle]

Is he allowed to have visitors? IBLP or the Duggars themselves could arrange to have somebody like David Waller visit Josh to "counsel" and keep in touch with him, especially since they're brothers-in-law. If Josh is truly in Rockford it's only an hour+ to get there from IBLP HQ. David would of course be smugger than, well, Smuggar himself and would pride himself on his godly character compared to his fallen brother-in-law and throw in an appropriate Bible verse or two. Even if this isn't an option, it would be fascinating to see the two of them in a room together and hear what they'd say to each other.

[SPHASH]

Josh Duggar = the Scott Disick of the fundie world. Teri Maxwell's 2 litre of Pepsi says he doesn't last more than a month or two.

I'll see your pepsi and raise you three animal crackers.

[DuggaredOut]

That's a good question. I would think "maybe," depending on who she talked to about it. On one hand, she's supposed to do what he says, but on the other, that's not "right" sex that could end in a pregnancy. Christian Nymphos seemed okay with it, though they're not exactly fundamentalists.

This is speculation, and while I'm normally not one who cares all that much about speculation since I'm a big believer in freedom of speech, what bothers me about this line of thinking is that it has a victim-blaming element, however unintentional. The implication is that if only Anna had given Josh a better/more exciting/more varied/more whatever sex life, he might not have cheated.

We have no idea what Josh and Anna's sex life is like. (And thank God for that! :ew: ) They may have the bestest, most satisfying seksy times evah. Men (and women) can cheat for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with how good their partner is in bed. They can cheat for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with their partner, period. They can cheat for reasons that are all about themselves and their own inability to be monogamous.

Like I said, speculation doesn't bother me per se, but when it comes to speculating about Josh and Anna's sex life as a cause of his infidelity, I think it can inadvertently place blame on her for his decision to break his marriage vows.

[withaj]

Is he allowed to have visitors? IBLP or the Duggars themselves could arrange to have somebody like David Waller visit Josh to "counsel" and keep in touch with him, especially since they're brothers-in-law. If Josh is truly in Rockford it's only an hour+ to get there from IBLP HQ. David would of course be smugger than, well, Smuggar himself and would pride himself on his godly character compared to his fallen brother-in-law and throw in an appropriate Bible verse or two. Even if this isn't an option, it would be fascinating to see the two of them in a room together and hear what they'd say to each other.

A visitor policy is outlined. I think they have the first opportunity after 45 days or whenever they finish "Phase One" and visits are from Friday evening to Sunday evening, but they still have to participate in everything scheduled, so it's not a ton of time. Only immediate family and your home pastor are supposed to be on the contact list, which is the same one used for phone calls and visits, I believe. But no, I don't think David Waller will be visiting.

[DuggaredOut]

Totally agree with you guys, 100%. IMO, the Duggars NEED Josh to have an "addiction," as that is the only possible way something like this could have happened to "them." Because, of course, there is no way his behaviors were something he just wanted to do- it was something Satan was making him do! The thought that he was actually enjoying the debauchery is too much for them- but they can handle/spin the idea that Satan created a fortress in his heart, causing him an addiction that compelled him to repeatedly cheat on Anna- against his will.

I know that many people suffer from all sorts of addictions and I have great sympathy for most of those people. But I just don't buy that Josh has all these "addictions;" he definitely has issues that need to be dealt with by medical and educated professionals, but I think a large number of those problems come from the fact that he's probably just a round peg in a fundamentalist square hole.

Out of curiosity, what do you guys think addiction is? Because my understanding is that addiction is a compulsive, excessive attachment to any kind of vice. Could be drinking, drugs, gambling but also food, work, shopping, and yeah, sex. Really anything that, when done to excess, causes problems for the addict and/or others around them. So it seems to me that Josh very well could be addicted to sex, but the reason he's addicted to sex, the void he's trying to fill with it, would be, as with any addiction, much deeper than just a desire for sex. And that deeper reason would, as Themiscyran said, require extensive therapy. I guess I'm trying to say that I think sexual addiction can grow out of the issues with misogyny, power, repression, etc. that were mentioned. I'm not sure why both (or all) can't be true of him.

[watchdog]

I liked the idea of having a thread specifically about the "rehab" facility Josh is in. With these mega threads you sometimes end up having to submit your comment 5 times or more because the new posts come in so fast and the board keeps warning you that there are new posts. By the time you're able to post, you have a new page to go back and read.

Anyway, here's my response to the last post in the rehab thread.

At this point I think it's premature to assume that the Ashley Madison accounts were the actual "second time." It's funny though, I don't think having an affair is the worst part of this episode (not that I'm condoning cheating, have the balls to end your relationship or marriage first). To me, the offensive part is stumping for family values and looking down on every one else regardless if he was practicing what he preached (obviously wasn't) or not. If he actually goes through 60 days in this program and still wants to meet random chicks online and have consensual rough sex, by all means, go for it. He needs to stop being accountable to mommy and daddy and just own his own behavior.

Thank you. That was my purpose for starting it. I thought the discussion about the "rehab" facility would generate a lot of relevant discussion about that one topic. Obviously the other helpmeets didn't share my reasoning and locked it after 7 pages. I guess you'll just have to go back to wading through eleventy million pages of the latest Joshgate thread for any new information on the "rehab" subject. And I'll return to lurkdom. :popcorn2:

[DuggaredOut]

INTP here and Christian, believe it or not! But I left my fundie lite church early on and spent many long years wandering in the wilderness as a heathen :twisted: before I returned to a much more mainstream brand of Christianity, and I still don't go to church. I don't think I could've returned to the faith without those prodigal years to explore everything else. As far as I'm aware, the only other person from my childhood church cohort to go prodigal was an INFJ. The others were sensors, and they stayed put.

Anyway, in my experience, INTPs are the hardest type to find in a church setting. INTJs are rare, too, but they're more common than INTPs. The difference is that while both types are very analytical, INTPs have trouble believing in one true anything. But INTJs, once convinced of an idea, can latch onto it and never let go. A lot of people believe Jessa is an INTJ, actually, so there's an example right there.