Joshley Madison Part 5 - Rehab and women and porn - oh my!

[Dandruff]

I read the rules. Allowed care package items include hairspray/gel, disposable razors (they ask "Have you ever thought about or tried to attempt suicide?" later), lotion (I can see this coming in handy, pun intended), and fabric wrinkle reducer. Good thing there's that junk food warning for receiving students who have eating or weight problems.

This does not sound like a fun place. The work program may actually be the best part of it. Possibly the only distraction from prayer closet type activities.

I agree with those who believe Josh is going to get special treatment. He's a potentially powerful future advertisement and maybe some of those 2/3rds of all families with molestation issues will consider giving them a try.

Hope both Josh and Anna can figure out what they want and work toward it. I don't like him, and think there's something inherently wrong with him, but I also believe he was crippled by his upbringing and the need for appearances on the show. Anna, IMO, needs to step back, decide what's best for herself and the children, and move toward it. I really don't think staying with him is a good idea...but I'm not her.

[RootBeerFloat]

I'm still looking at this schedule. So lights out at 10:00 and 4:30 wake up call. So six and a half hours of sleep-- if you fall asleep immediately as soon as your head hits the pillow. Smugger is now supposed to do manual labor for 9 hours a day and then only get 6 hours of sleep at night. He is going to be one tired puppy. This is probably what they want, extremely worn out people who don't have the strength to fight the brainwashing. I'd be willing to bet that they are underfed as well.

Under forbidden items: Music (music will be provided by RUI) I'm guessing hymns will be provided.

On the topic of care packages: Note: If the receiving student has weight problems, please do not send junk food. Hmm, I wonder who makes that call? And do you think Anna will be forgiving enough to send him care packages? Maybe the Duggar youngsters will be told to put together a package for their brother as practice in Christian forgiveness.

Under Personal Hygiene: All body odors must be controlled :lol: So no farting in church!

A care package? Oh HELL NO! How many leghumpers are going to send him boxes of Twinkies and crosses? Will Michelle send him her famous tater tot casserole? These people are unbelievable. What a waste of 6 months. Go do outward bound or scrub toilets in old people's homes or something useful, FFS. And get some real freaking therapy!!!

[Handmaiden of Dog]

Negative remarks about food will not be tolerated. Prayer and fasting are a profitable substitute.

Maybe Josh will slim down to his pre-wedding weight.

[RootBeerFloat]

Does anyone know - TMI - but could Anna possibly have caused a ruckus if he demanded, say, anal sex? Could she have brought up the case that he was a pervert not giving her ALL THE BABIES? Or is she suppose to give in NO MATTER WHAT???

(I was a fundie but the family left a few years ago. I don't know how actual sex lives work within these circles. :shifty: )

Per the cult rules, he can't spill his seed anywhere that couldn't make a baby. Though she might be dumb enough to let him mix and match.

[Escapefromfundiedom]

Josh Duggar = the Scott Disick of the fundie world. Teri Maxwell's 2 litre of Pepsi says he doesn't last more than a month or two.

[HarryPotterFan]

Oh Ladies, you HAVE to check out their rules handbook!

So much Godly Goodness there.

A few subtle differences between the men's and women's schedule programs (men apparently need less sleep, women get to spend all day Saturday cleaning the facility, and on Thursday nights men get free time and women get extra bonus Bible study time).

You have to divulge whether any parent or grandparent has any involvement in New Age (confess now if your grandma does yoga!).

If your sponsor/parent/yourself is late on a payment, that will put you ladies on RED SHIRT PUNISHMENT. I believe that meant you had to wear a punitive red shirt for 10 days while performing extra "volunteer" work. (Men, you'll be sent to the local homeless shelter). CHRIST LIKE ATTITUDES must be adopted.

There is so much more goodness there, feel free to peruse for your own enjoyment:

ruhomes.org/wp-content/uploads/HOUSING_APPLICATION_Revised_January_29_FINAL.pdf

Beatings will increase until morale improves!

:fyingpan: :fyingpan: :fyingpan: :fyingpan: :fyingpan:

"All body odors must be controlled." :lol: :lol:

[HerNameIsBuffy]

This is exactly how fundamentalism works, and why it's a cult. The longer I stayed at the church I was at, the more active my life became. You're expected at all church services and functions, someone's always wanting to come over or do something with you or wants you to come over, etc. Wednesday is church, Sunday all day is church, choir practice, cleaning the church, nursery duty, picking up people who don't have a car, bus duty, soul winning on Saturday morning. Your life is church and those people are your life. There's no time for anything else. That's the whole culture in a nutshell.

So they'd be saving me from hell by giving me one here on earth? And that's exactly how I've seen it played out with the ones I know.

Aren't there ant introverted fundies or fundie-lites? No INTJs or ISTJs? I'd last less than a week before going full on Linda Blair.

[TheJewAmongUs]

I read the rules. Allowed care package items include hairspray/gel, disposable razors (they ask "Have you ever thought about or tried to attempt suicide?" later), lotion (I can see this coming in handy, pun intended), and fabric wrinkle reducer. Good thing there's that junk food warning for receiving students who have eating or weight problems.

I'm trying to decide if the best care package is just lotion and rubber gloves, or if a third item is needed. I think tampons might raise suspicions, but baby oil isn't on the list.

[snarkopolis]

The fact that he allegedly met up with Danica Dillon in a (ahem) "gentlemen's club" has me giggling. Smuggly seems real comfortable in places he should have little or no knowledge of given his "Christian values non interaction with the heathens" raising he has received from the Boob and Greenblouse. :popcorn2:

I wonder what other secrets will fall out of the tator tot casserole in the coming months? Hmmmm.......

[punkiepie]

Well, at least Josh is pretty likely to be miserable while he's there.

I think it's worth noting that psychology is actually considered by many (most?) fundies to be an anti-Jesus religion. :roll:

My parents told me while I was growing up that psychology was a tool Satan set up to divert people from God and was one of his "false religions" to keep people deceived and from discovering true salvation.

P.S. Mr. CD is a counselor at an inpatient treatment facility and has his addiction counseling certification through the state. My parents refused their blessing on our engagement. His profession wasn't the reason they gave, but it certainly didn't help.

You are so right! I remember in my old IFB Fundie church, our pastor's wife overheard me talking to one of my friends about the classes I'd registered for before I started my first semester of college. Now, it was already a big bad deal because I was leaving home and going to a secular university (my dad's a doctor, so education was always very highly valued in my home, as compared with everyone else at church), but when she heard that I'd registered for "Psychology as a Biological Science," shit hit the fan!

She came over, pulled me aside, and began lecturing me about the evils of psychology and how satan was going to use it to get into my mind. And the fact that it was psychology mixed with biology!!1!- well that was even worse, you know evolution and all... It didn't end there- she went to my mom to express her concerns about it and even had my youth group leader talk to me in private about rethinking my choices- since I was going to be the light in a very dark and heathen college universe without the protection of my family and church. It was a nightmare for me.

They freaked my mom out so badly, I actually thought she was going to go down to the registrar and drop the class for me! Luckily, my dad's level head was able to calm her down and get her to think rationally, so I did get to take the class. And I really didn't enjoy it all the much. I was so freaked out about the possibility of satan getting into my head and warping my thoughts, that I was never able to really appreciate anything I learned. I kept viewing everything with my Fundie camera lens and never let myself think critically about what was being taught. So, it wasn't the "ebil" psych class that led me away from my Fundie/Fundie-lite upbringing. But after I began to question everything and told my family I wouldn't be going back to that church or anyone like it (several years after graduating from college), I took several psych classes at the local community college. I didn't have to do it and there was no real reason, but I felt that I had short-changed myself before and I wanted, no- needed- to learn more about myself, how I had gotten where I was, and what I could do to undo some of the damage.

I think most uneducated fundies hear the word psychology and the first thing that comes to their mind is Freud and dirty sex. And they think that the idea we are preprogrammed for our sexual identity, scares the shit out of them.

[Jersey girl]

This is not rehab, it's punishment. And while I do think Joshie deserves punishment, he also needs therapy. But their whole way of life is about punishment .....they hit babies , after all.

They're just so stupid. They never go beyond the concrete morality of young children. Every behavior is about whether they will be punished or rewarded, they have no internal moral sense.

This isn't going to teach Josh a thing. Whether he lasts the whole time or not, he's still not going to have any moral integrity.

[JenniferJuniper]

So they'd be saving me from hell by giving me one here on earth? And that's exactly how I've seen it played out with the ones I know.

Aren't there ant introverted fundies or fundie-lites? No INTJs or ISTJs? I'd last less than a week before going full on Linda Blair.

Probably some ISTJs. Far fewer INTJs and probably hardly any INTPs. They'd probably wander off in very early childhood, preferring to be raised in the woods by wolves.

[lascuba]

While Josh and the rest of the family most definitely need real therapy for all sorts of reasons, he doesn't need rehab--not that this place is a legitimate rehab facility. I do not buy the addict line at all. Maybe his family chooses to believe it so the cognitive dissonance doesn't make their heads explode, but he's not a real addict. This "rehab" is just another PR move in the hopes of calming the situation, likely pushed by Jim Bob. I have a hard time imagining Josh thinking he needs this...this isn't 15 year old Josh begging his parents for help because he keeps molesting his sisters, this is a grown man who has spent years getting away with all sorts of things he was told were major sins...he is not going to want to go back to Gothard-style piety. If he makes it through the rehab, I can see him making himself the poster boy for reformed "porn addicts" and making a great living among the fundie set; and if he can't get through it? I think he's arrogant enough to pretend to go the NLQ route and seek mainstream forgiveness by blaming quiverfull/fundamentalism. And I'm cynical enough about humanity to think that might work.

[Themiscyran]

I notice that Libby Anne at LoveJoyFeminism seems to think it's 50-50 whether Josh is at the RU facility or sent back to IBLP facilities. If the latter, sheesh! Talk about repeating things that don't work!

patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2015/08/josh-duggar-sent-to-long-term-treatment-center.html

The thing that made me pause about this is that IBLP's Administrative Director is David Waller, Josh's brother in law. A way for the Kellers to have a say in Josh's "treatment"? in any case, neither seems like it will really do anything to change his behavior. :cry: Fake fundie psychology doesn't work any better than fake fundie birth control.... :roll:

[Sherryburger]

The fact that he allegedly met up with Danica Dillon in a (ahem) "gentlemen's club" has me giggling. Smuggly seems real comfortable in places he should have little or no knowledge of given his "Christian values non interaction with the heathens" raising he has received from the Boob and Greenblouse. :popcorn2:

I wonder what other secrets will fall out of the tator tot casserole in the coming months? Hmmmm.......

I hope that whatever horrors await us a la Josh are spaced out at least every couple of days or so. I am worn to a nub after today.

[meep]

A care package? Oh HELL NO! How many leghumpers are going to send him boxes of Twinkies and crosses? Will Michelle send him her famous tater tot casserole? These people are unbelievable. What a waste of 6 months. Go do outward bound or scrub toilets in old people's homes or something useful, FFS. And get some real freaking therapy!!!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

This made me laugh and laugh and laugh and laugh.....

But for serious, I have a friend who has been in rehab a couple times and from her stories, even letting in disposable razors seems like a bad idea. :doh:

[justbecause]

The howlers went to their re-programming camp last month, so I guess this is Josh's turn. I guess JB and Michelle have taken the view that the real problem is that fortress Satan built in Josh's heart (as opposed to, you know, being a selfish douchebag with no respect for women in general, his wife in particular, and his marriage), so he needs to be beaten over the head with more Jesus. Because that worked so well with his first instances of sexual misconduct. :roll: :penguin-no:

What the Duggars don't seem to understand is that problems like this can't be solved with more prayer, Bible readings, or manual labor. My guess is that Josh was already praying and reading the Bible a lot, even when he was knee deep in his cheating ways (doubt he was doing manual labor, though), and it didn't do anything other than make him more smug and self-righteous. Whether you have a relationship with Jesus has no bearing on whether you cheat on your spouse or spend money on porn and prostitutes that should be used to support your young children. The very fact that one of the rules of this fake rehab center is not to talk about your previous life shows that this facility is more interested in browbeating vulnerable people into accepting pointless dogma that helping them overcome their problems indicates that Josh's issues (whatever they are) will never be addressed, at least not at this place. :angry-banghead:

Side note: going to fake Jesus rehab needs to be a post count

I am specifically talking about the sentences that I bolded. But I will make a few observations about their religious beliefs.

First, the Duggars (JB & J'chelle) have excluded themselves from the world. Both the normal Christian world as well as the world in general. What they have in effect done is removed anyone and anything that disagree's with them and I think that this has brought about some serious delusion as far as their faith is concerned.

Second, reading the Bible with a huge bias like their cult views have caused them has them justifying their belief using the Bible, conscuing it in some wierd way (kind of like KKK members can say they are Christian. I'm like :wtf: ). People who set their beliefs justify or twist anything.

Third, when they are taught to 'keep it sweet' and disregard their own emotions and feelings, they loose touch with their real selves. Not knowing their own motivations or hearts, because they live a lie being sweet and happy all the time. So, they cause themselves to live a lie from the get go. It's all built upon this 'image' and not reality.

In essence, I think maybe in some twisted, odd way Josh was use to desiring one thing and pretending to be another his whole life, so I don't think in his odd thinking this is that odd.

The whole cult is odd. Most everything they do is odd.

[princessmahina]

Dumb question: there is no scheduled lunch that I saw on the schedule. Do they get lunch, or do they have to fast all day?

My mother and I are trying to figure that one out :lol:

[Themiscyran]

While Josh and the rest of the family most definitely need real therapy for all sorts of reasons, he doesn't need rehab--not that this place is a legitimate rehab facility. I do not buy the addict line at all. Maybe his family chooses to believe it so the cognitive dissonance doesn't make their heads explode, but he's not a real addict. This "rehab" is just another PR move in the hopes of calming the situation, likely pushed by Jim Bob.

Agree 100%! The real therapy Josh would need would involve acknowledging his screwed up ideas about sex, gender, and power. Even if he DOES have an addiction, treating addiction is not the same as treating someone who has abuse issues, which I really think he has. And his abuse issues stem at least in part from the entire Gothardite lifestyle. He'd have to come to a *sincere* rejection of all that to really change, at least the way I see it. And why would he do that? If he can just learn to "speak Jesus" better and hide his transgressions more effectively, then he can eventually be welcomed back to the fold, and still exercise his patriarchal power over his family, etc. It might just be my personal experiences with abuse, but he really does ring all my warning bells about someone with power issues, big time.

[nst]

A care package? Oh HELL NO! How many leghumpers are going to send him boxes of Twinkies and crosses? Will Michelle send him her famous tater tot casserole? These people are unbelievable. What a waste of 6 months. Go do outward bound or scrub toilets in old people's homes or something useful, FFS. And get some real freaking therapy!!!

this whole thing is just disgusting but this takes the cake

a care package by a leghumper - good lord what's next ?

would they really send him cake and stuff - a pair of socks

send him pictures of Anna's std's she got because of him

:angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :violin:

[JenniferJuniper]

While Josh and the rest of the family most definitely need real therapy for all sorts of reasons, he doesn't need rehab--not that this place is a legitimate rehab facility. I do not buy the addict line at all. Maybe his family chooses to believe it so the cognitive dissonance doesn't make their heads explode, but he's not a real addict. This "rehab" is just another PR move in the hopes of calming the situation, likely pushed by Jim Bob.

You are almost certainly correct. It serves several purposes for Jim Bob.

First, by sending Josh to "rehab" it looks like the family is taking proactive steps to cure Josh of his sex addiction (which no doubt stemmed from the viewing of porn on his demonic smart phone. Take note howlers, it will be flip phones of shame forever.)

Of course, there is no evidence Josh is addicted to anything, aside from addicted to being a smug, entitled creep, so even a real rehab couldn't help him. And this place clearly doesn't even specialize in sex addiction issues.

Secondly, it gets him away from Anna for awhile so the Duggars can continue to work to convince her all will be well, stay the course, Josh has a tender conscience and he's willingly being cured of anything that ails him. It's easier for them if she doesn't have to look at the asshole's face for awhile.

Finally, it's clearly a punishment and Jim Bob likes to put all kinds of punishments on his bad boys. Problem is, Josh is there voluntarily. While as some have said,he may pretend to thrive in this environment (he's a good poser) and emerge a new man, he can also say "fuck it, I'm outta here" at any point if things get too tough. My own guess is that the guys at RU have been paid a little extra to make sure Josh gets kid glove treatment and plum work assignments. He's potentially good advertisement for them if he survives, so they have just as much motivation to keep him so he can emerge more Godly than ever.

But Josh is a real person, not JB's puppet or a character on a reality show. A real person who might have personality disorders or other mental health issues that are at least exacerbating his bad behaviors. None of this will help him in any way, and it could make him much worse. If Josh really wants to get help, he needs to tell his father to stick it, get himself some Obamacare and then some real therapy. Without it, the cycle is just going to continue.

[JenniferJuniper]

Dumb question: there is no scheduled lunch that I saw on the schedule. Do they get lunch, or do they have to fast all day?

My mother and I are trying to figure that one out :lol:

I'm picturing the Food Glorious Food scene from Oliver.

(but lunch probably depends on which ditches they are sent to dig)

[nokidsmom]

Looked at the rehab and it's schedule. This is not going to work, this is a repeat of the work therapy that Josh underwent as a teenager and we know how that went.

As pointed out upthread, there's no psychologists / psychiatrists or even MSWs. I don't know how it might work for other patients there but in Josh's case, no friggin' way. He needs serious help with real therapy, not doing free work and Bible study. He's got a history of sexual molestation, now this possible "addiction" (not buying it's addition but more a simple case of being a cheating asshole) and who knows what else. Because I suspect there's more.

One thing this does do: it puts Josh away for the duration in the event other possible reveals come out, which is probable.

[Cochise]

If he had a lick of sense and a credit card with a balance he'd light out of there and emigrate to another country where he's not known and where people will pay him to teach English to foreigners. He hasn't got any background in teaching English as a Second Language, but he speaks English. For a lot of organizations that teach people on the cheap, that's enough. As far as we know he's never been convicted of a crime, so he might be able to get a work visa and eventually apply for citizenship. The Duggars can explain this as Josh "choosing a life of celibacy to make up for his sins" and "doing God's work in Chile" (or wherever in the world he might go that doesn't have a big Duggar fanbase). Meanwhile he could play around to his heart's content as long as he's making money, though he obviously won't have the equivalent of $1500 to throw around at one prostitute at any given time.

Josh doesn't have much future in America. I suspect that at one point Jim Bob thought "He's married and he's got a wonderful job; I'm proud of him! Problems solved!" Jim Bob doesn't strike me as a man who has much tolerance for his children not being like Daddy and obeying Daddy, and Josh has shown repeatedly that he'll say whatever Jim Bob wants and then go back to doing whatever Josh wants to do. Is it ever possible in the fundie world for a father to say "I've listened to him repent and then he sins again, I've gotten him the best help I possibly could [har har], he lies and has dishonored our family, his wife, his kids, his sisters (not that THAT mattered), and Meeeshell. I wash my hands of him--he's on his own, since he won't bend to my headship. Let him stay in Chile. I don't know where that leaves Anna, but he's not a husband to Anna like I'm a husband to Michelle. He's just let her town too much. He's let me down too much, too."

Not much of a solution for Anna and her children, but arguably a lot better than having to go to bed with a man who has heartlessly cheated on her, wondering what he's thinking and if he's pretending she's somebody else and whether he picked up any STDs and why he wanted to cheat on her and whether she's inadequate and whether she loves him in any sense at all.

[punkiepie]

Agree 100%! The real therapy Josh would need would involve acknowledging his screwed up ideas about sex, gender, and power. Even if he DOES have an addiction, treating addiction is not the same as treating someone who has abuse issues, which I really think he has. And his abuse issues stem at least in part from the entire Gothardite lifestyle. He'd have to come to a *sincere* rejection of all that to really change, at least the way I see it. And why would he do that? If he can just learn to "speak Jesus" better and hide his transgressions more effectively, then he can eventually be welcomed back to the fold, and still exercise his patriarchal power over his family, etc. It might just be my personal experiences with abuse, but he really does ring all my warning bells about someone with power issues, big time.

Totally agree with you guys, 100%. IMO, the Duggars NEED Josh to have an "addiction," as that is the only possible way something like this could have happened to "them." Because, of course, there is no way his behaviors were something he just wanted to do- it was something Satan was making him do! The thought that he was actually enjoying the debauchery is too much for them- but they can handle/spin the idea that Satan created a fortress in his heart, causing him an addiction that compelled him to repeatedly cheat on Anna- against his will.

I know that many people suffer from all sorts of addictions and I have great sympathy for most of those people. But I just don't buy that Josh has all these "addictions;" he definitely has issues that need to be dealt with by medical and educated professionals, but I think a large number of those problems come from the fact that he's probably just a round peg in a fundamentalist square hole. Not excusing his behavior in any way- but I do think he would have faired a lot better if he had been raised by a different set of parents.