"19 Kids" Cancelled

[VelociRapture]

To me, this sounds a lot like blaming the woman for not leaving the abuser who's abusing her. Systematic years of abuse (and, in addition to the sexual abuse, we know there was physical abuse when they were younger, and I'd bet a lot that there was emotional abuse, as well) make a person truly, truly believe that they can't leave. I mean, one of the things that abused women say is that they DIDN'T realize it was abuse. This whole family is screwed up because of J-Bob and Michelle and Josh, and I bet these women and girls truly, absolutely believe that they are NOT being abused. If they do, I am almost positive that they think there is no way to get out of the situation. Their parents have been abusing them in one form or another for 20+ years. You don't just "wake up" out of that, even if it's all over the media. It sometimes takes YEARS to come to terms with it.

Edited b/c I can't do quotes very well.

If you looked through my post history you'd see that I have stated the same things you just did countless times on here (almost exactly what you wrote actually). I used to be a poster who defended the adult children quite loudly and passionately.

As I said, I am highly sympathetic to the way they were raised and I think they are victims of the shittiest parenting possible. None of that is their faults and I have never once blamed those kids for that. They had no say in how they were raised or who they were born to.

There comes a point where everyone has to take responsibility for themselves and for their choices, regardless of how they were raised or by whom. The adult Duggar children are at that point. Of course they aren't going to just "wake up" and realize how fucked they are thanks to their shitty parents - I never suggested that and I never will. I did state, however, that as adults they have made a choice to remain in the same situation they have always been in - whether they realize that or not. This is not a judgement, this is an observation.

I will always sympathize with them for the circumstances that led them to where they are, but I am done concerning myself or worrying over whether Jana ever gets married or if Josiah rushes to become a young father. Worrying about the younger kids being heavily disciplined or subjected to harsher rules? Yes, that I will worry about.

[JuicyDuggar]

Duggar blog post for today was deleted.. they don't want any loose cannons :)

Are you talking about the Lily and Ellie blog? They replaced it with a post announcing the cancellation. They did start the post with this: "Just 30 minutes after we wrote a post encouraging readers to urge TLC not to cancel 19 Kids and Counting, the network officially canceled the show. (Talk about interesting timing.)"

I had commented on that post before it was deleted asking why they felt the need to goad their readers into bringing back the show. I was polite, it was a serious question. But are these girls so far up the Duggars' asses they can't accept that they lost the show because they're corrupt and untrustworthy, not because the librul media is a big meanie?

[IReallyAmHopewell]

I think my post got "lost".....

To think that with it cancelled, we won't get to see the comparison of 'Siah and Marj courting with no contact and Amy's male stripper bachelorette party. No "wisdom" on how to stay pure while courting or any patronizing statements about how the "love" and "accept" Amy [even though she's clearly a slut bound for hell]....

[VelociRapture]

I somehow got into a Facebook news group post. Some of the comments just leave me shaking my head. Like these

Really?!?!? How can people still defend them?

. . . Does this person understand what molestation is? Because I'm pretty sure Josh absolutely 100% DID molest his victims. :angry-banghead:

[Queen Of Hearts]

Could Jill and Jessa's 'involvement' in this special simply be clips from their interview with Megyn Kelley?

[MamaJunebug]

Can that be my icon? can it can it can it?

Anyhoo. It's from dlisted's report on the cancellation. Michael K writes that TLC took a while to come to its decision and did it quietly because:

"... they don’t want God to find out and strike them dead for turning their backs on a good Christian family!!! Cut to God filing his nails and rolling his eyes like “whatever†after reading TLC’s announcement. ..."

He reproduces the family's statement about the cancellation down to the very last paragraph and observes:

" '...We know Who holds the future and are confident that He will work all things together for good' is their way of saying “Our agent is trying to get us another show.â€

So long, 19 Kids. Whenever I want to feel like my soul is getting nibbled on by the widened eyes of a crazy lady with hair that is not of this world, I’ll have to look elsewhere.

And then he gifts us with that photo. Good man, that.

[JenniferJuniper]

Could Jill and Jessa's 'involvement' in this special simply be clips from their interview with Megyn Kelley?

Just a guess, but I think they'll speak in generic terms about making sure you know a good touch from a bad one, making sure you tell a trusted adult if someone touches you in a wrong way (normal parents can say "in your bathing suit area", but alas that has no meaning in Duggarsville), etc.

[nokidsmom]

If you looked through my post history you'd see that I have stated the same things you just did countless times on here (almost exactly what you wrote actually). I used to be a poster who defended the adult children quite loudly and passionately.

As I said, I am highly sympathetic to the way they were raised and I think they are victims of the shittiest parenting possible. None of that is their faults and I have never once blamed those kids for that. They had no say in how they were raised or who they were born to.

There comes a point where everyone has to take responsibility for themselves and for their choices, regardless of how they were raised or by whom. The adult Duggar children are at that point. Of course they aren't going to just "wake up" and realize how fucked they are thanks to their shitty parents - I never suggested that and I never will. I did state, however, that as adults they have made a choice to remain in the same situation they have always been in - whether they realize that or not.

I will always sympathize with them for the circumstances that led them to where they are, but I am done concerning myself or worrying over whether Jana ever gets married or if Josiah rushes to become a young father. Worrying about the younger kids being heavily disciplined or subjected to harsher rules? Yes, that I will worry about.

Regarding the older children, even within their own fundie framework, there were still some choices. I mean, even Jill decided to get some midwife training, never mind how good it is, she did strive for something and did it. JD has his pilot's license and flies planes, has a towing business, is a constable. There's still some degree of choice in their lives. It may not be great choices from our perspective but I can tell you that from growing up in a family where choices were allowed within a certain framework, you can learn to make it work for you. So yeah, from that perspective I can see that the older kids still at home are making certain choices that keep them there. As limiting as JB and J'chelle are, they aren't chaining their kids to the wall either. Plus all the kids have been exposed to the world outside having experiences that many of us, including myself, haven't had. You can't "un-experience" something. So yeah, I get the argument that the older kids have been the choice to stay where they are, though I hold out on Josiah as he's just turned 18.

[grandmadugger]

. . . Does this person understand what molestation is? Because I'm pretty sure Josh absolutely 100% DID molest his victims. :angry-banghead:

It was just light touching over the clothes. Didn't you listen when the almighty JB said that?

I agree the amount of idiots amazes me. These people vote and reproduce.

[DaysAgo]

I have hope - they're partnering with RAINN for this special, apparently.

Maybe since the money's gone, the women have nothing to lose now by telling their story?

Surely RAINN would not be in favor of the Duggars' appearance on this important documentary due to their distorted sense of facts and emotions and faith.

Unless the Duggars are spotlighted to show the harmful effects of religious fundamentalism and sexual abuse.

[OodOnTheLoo]

I would be surprised if TLC owed them much, if anything. Morals clause or no, a show can be cancelled for any reason and all that might be owed is any work the actors/participants did that is "in the can" but never to be aired.

Maybe Jim Bob had some sort of special contract with them, but I don't see why TLC would feel the need to enter into any prior agreement beyond what they are owed per episode. No episodes, no checks.

Yep. You can do quite well on YouTube. I can only hope people repost their videos so we don't contribute to their cause when we watch.

[iheartchacos]

UP still airs 7th Heaven so I wouldn't put it past them to take on the Duggars in some way.

[halcionne]

No, probably because they didn't need to do damage control. They were lauded for immediately canceling the show. In the case of the Duggars, TLC fucked up majorly by not immediately cancelling and by just retweeting Josh's and the family's initial statements--which came across as a sign of support--and then running a 19KAC marathon. Then the Duggars fucked up by doing that interview and making themselves look even worse. And then that 911 call came out with the Duggars refusing to let DHS in, which just fanned the flames.

I'm happy that it's finally been cancelled, but the way it's been done just gives me all sorts of bad vibes. The fact that TLC and the Duggars are being so publicly amicable about this (because no way would Jim Bob be so chill about the cancellation unless TLC was promising him something); that Jill and Jessa will be involved in this "documentary" about sexual abuse with RAINN and Darkness to Light adding legitimacy (because I cannot believe that Jill/Jessa will have any contact with those organizations--RAINN and DtL won't be responding to anything Jill and Jessa say, it will likely be each giving their "side" in separate interviews). TLC hasn't given up trying to make money off this family.

Singed,

Queen Debbie Downer

Agree, and as for your second paragraph, TLC hasn't removed 19KaC from the website yet, though it is placed pretty far down the "shows" page--see below--and I couldn't find the press release at all. I know it's there somewhere, but I got to it via google.

Following the link takes you to the 19KaC page, where they're still featuring Jill's birth experience. I guess I'll give them half a point for not updating/promoting the page, but smh at them not removing it entirely.

[Dandruff]

I would be surprised if TLC owed them much, if anything. Morals clause or no, a show can be cancelled for any reason and all that might be owed is any work the actors/participants did that is "in the can" but never to be aired.

Maybe Jim Bob had some sort of special contract with them, but I don't see why TLC would feel the need to enter into any prior agreement beyond what they are owed per episode. No episodes, no checks.

I wasn't thinking of owing so much as TLC not wanting to drag things out and/or deal with potential future issues or complaints from the Duggars. So, money.

Regarding getting jobs with Gothard - while his empire may be on the decline, I still think they'd find room for Duggars on the payroll. I'm remembering the publicity they got via the Duggars and some of the people currently on the BoD.

[Daenerys]

I think I've gotten seriously bitter over the past few months - that said:

I feel no worry or pity for the adult children in that household. Jana, John-David, Jinger, Josiah, and Joseph have all had time to break away if they wanted to. Same with Josh, Anna, Jill, Derick, Jessa, and Ben. The fact that they stay indicates to me that they want to be there at this point. Whether its because they want to "protect" the younger siblings or they honestly like being there doesn't matter much - they stay because they choose to.

Do I sympathize with them for the fucked up way they were raised? Yes. Do I feel terrible that they likely were taught that there were no other options for them? Of course. Do I think that they are so brainwashed that they honestly don't understand that their lifestyle is far from normal and, in many ways, detrimental to their health? Absolutely.

But they are adults and as adults, whether they realize it or not, they have made a choice to stay. So they get no worrying from me about their futures - at this point, they've made their decisions and they have to live with it.

As for the minors (including Joy who turns 18 this fall and all the grand-kids)? I do feel concern for them. They have no options for getting out if they wanted to and I feel badly that their lives are going to change so much from all this. They will still be subjected to the same shitty parenting as always, just with a more intense focus on discipline now that the camera crews are gone. I do feel genuine sympathy for the younger kids who did nothing to deserve any of this and have no say.

In terms of actual development, 18 is a really arbitrary distinction point. Josiah has been an "adult" for ten months, and is only a year older than Joy. Yet you are putting them in completely different categories, as if he is going to be massively different in maturity and understanding than her. I appreciate what you are saying about the oldest children, but with young adults it really isn't that black and white.

For the record, I wasn't raised fundy at all, but at 18 I would happily have got married and had a baby and thought it was a great idea even if my husband didn't have a great job. It's only as I've got a bit older (I''m 25) that I've been able to see and appreciate all the world has to offer and understood how much my friends who married straight out of school gave up in terms of life choices.

[halcionne]

Duggar blog post for today was deleted.. they don't want any loose cannons :)

What got deleted? I can still see the posts from Duggar family and Lily & Ellie.

[Buzzard]

What got deleted? I can still see the posts from Duggar family and Lily & Ellie.

Lily and Ellie are going to have to get themselves a job! Without the hits on the page whatever will they do for income?

[halcionne]

Can that be my icon? can it can it can it?

Anyhoo. It's from dlisted's report on the cancellation. Michael K writes that TLC took a while to come to its decision and did it quietly because:

He reproduces the family's statement about the cancellation down to the very last paragraph and observes:

And then he gifts us with that photo. Good man, that.

Here's a square thumbnail of that picture, if you want it.

[JenniferJuniper]

I wasn't thinking of owing so much as TLC not wanting to drag things out and/or deal with potential future issues or complaints from the Duggars. So, money.

Barring contractual issues, what would TLC owe the Duggars? If anything, assuming the Duggars kept TLC in the dark about their family secret, the Duggars duped TLC.

[OperaRocks]

"I feel no worry or pity for the adult children in that household. Jana, John-David, Jinger, Josiah, and Joseph have all had time to break away if they wanted to. Same with Josh, Anna, Jill, Derick, Jessa, and Ben. The fact that they stay indicates to me that they want to be there at this point. Whether its because they want to "protect" the younger siblings or they honestly like being there doesn't matter much - they stay because they choose to."

On the other hand, such a huge part of their brand is maintaining loyalty to the fam, and keeping up appearances. I sincerely hope that those kids who toed the line for whatever threats or incentives, and for whom this big crazy culty culture they've been locked into has chaffed, will take the opportunity of being off air to...RUN! I think it's more likely, and more possible now.

[ShepherdontheRock]

Well, I leave FJ for the day, and come back to this. What pleasant news, though I can't say I'm particularly surprised.

Like others, I'm not holding my breath for the documentary to be particularly insightful/helpful/not minimizing, but I hope RAINN and D2L can make sure viewers know that the Duggar situation is not healthy/right, etc. etc. etc.

Don't think Jill and Jessa will do anything but toe the party line, but still hoping maybe one of them might crack. We already saw Jill crack a little ("we can't speak for the other victims.")

Also of the opinion that the Duggars' statement was at least in part crafted by PR people/lawyers.

Also, I think it's unfair to say that the chidults have had opportunities/time to break away. I don't think we should judge whatever reason they have for staying (being naive and afraid of hell, unaware of opportunities out there for them, wanting/feeling an obligation to protect younger siblings)

[Sundaymorning]

Barring contractual issues, what would TLC owe the Duggars? If anything, assuming the Duggars kept TLC in the dark about their family secret, the Duggars duped TLC.

Well, that could be the point here. Given that the Oprah show was informed, and the molestation scandal was (if the reports are true) more like an open secret around the area, it's likely that TLC knew at least something.

And of course, if Boob would tell the public that TLC knew about the molestations all along, that would be a huge PR desaster for them.

So I can see them quietly paying Boob off in order to avoid another scandal.

[Angelic83]

I must say I am surprised. Since they took so long to make a decision, I wasn't expecting a cancellation.

Judging by the recent videos the Duggars have put out, these people are addicted to attention and fame. I am sure they will find another medium to spread their bullshit.

People magazine still publish there video's pictures etc. So they stay in the news

[karen77]

People magazine still publish there video's pictures etc. So they stay in the news

but now that they aren't under the TLC umbrella, will they (at least as much)?

[Daenerys]

Please. There is no way Marjorie is marrying into this batshit insane family now that there is no show. If any spinoffs materialize, they'll be a long time in the offing. And their courtship isn't interesting enough to warrant one itself. This cancellation is a blessing in disguise for them; no teenage wedding!

Edit: grammar, because I'm on my iPhone.

I hope you are right; but if Marjorie's family are fundie enough for the Duggars to consider, they are going to be the SAHD type who don't work or go to university. We've seen how many of those girls end up alone or have to settle for whoever will have them. The Duggars might not be the brand they once were, but from their angle the son of a rich man from a top ATI family might still be a good catch. Also, Si and Margery might actually really like each other and *want* to marry, however unwise that might be.