"19 Kids" Cancelled

[calimojo]

I have to agree, I think having them off the air is for the best. If, on their own, the survivors of the molestation want to have an honest talk about what happened, how they coped, how it has affected them, etc, that is their decision, but to make it as part of the show, we go right back to JB and M making money by exploiting their children, over this ugly situation

I doubt that most normal people view any of the victims/survivors as tainted or less pure, they were children and not at all at fault. Surely even the most over the top religious nut job, would see that. But it should be completely up to them as to whether they ever want to discuss it publicly. I don't feel that it was their choice, fully, to be interviewed for Fox. I think, they did as they were expected. I don't think it even enters their minds to not do what is expected of them when it comes to the family business. Sure, Jessa may have her first kiss of camera, or Jill might wear culottes or shorter skirts while in Central America, but in essentials, these girls don't know that they can make their own choices or defy the wants of their parents.

So even if JB and TLC had come to them and offered to continue the show, and would they mind including the molestation "theme", these girls would have felt no choice but to say yes, even if some where, buried deep inside of them, there is a 9 or 11 year old girl saying "No".

In 10 years, if some of these kids manage to get out from under JB and M's thumbs, maybe they will find it helpful to discuss it. Or maybe, they want to put it behind them and move on.

Not everyone who has been in these situations, reacts the same way. How they cope is their business

[Seven]

Does anyone remember that show "American Muslim"? It was cancelled pretty quickly because a lot of zealots thought that it was glamorizing Islam and was dangerous because the American public would stop being afraid of Muslims. Using the same logic that had that show cancelled, the Duggars should be cancelled because the Duggar family isn't being honest about the sexual abuse, and is making sexual abuse into almost a joke. What this disgusting excuse of a family is doing for victims all around is almost criminal. Can they guarantee that there isn't a girl watching this unfold who is being abused by her brother, and now she thinks this is normal? Can they guarantee that other families watching this won't just give their son a stern talk and move on with their lives. What TLC is putting out there by letting this family remove the sympathy from the victims and place it on the accused is beyond negligent and to me borders on criminal. TLC needs to let this freak show end. Now.

[Mama Mia]

I really wish that Ben would live up to his headship responsibilities and get Jessa the hell away from Duggarville.

I honestly think, if he and Jessa would move to a slightly larger city, live in a neighborhood with some amount of diversity, and at least one of them would get a real job, they might actually have a shot at growing up and maturing out of their nasty phase they are in now.

Someone, has convinced poor Ben that he has a future as some sort of internet minister. This is obviously terribly misguided as he really lacks charisma on screen. In person, he may be more confident and sound intelligent, but he loses it when he is on screen.

I feel like a true friend or loving family member of his, should sit him down and give him a kind but very honest dose of reality. Maybe being a minister is in Ben's future, but he needs to live life a bit. He needs to have challenges, and question his faith. I think the best ministers are those who had to struggle through their faith first, question it, study it, etc. At 19, Ben doesn't have the maturity to really understand the world.

Jessa just spouts what she knows. She strikes me as stubbornly sticking to what she knows, even though in someways she knows that much of it is Bull shit. But she is so darned stubborn and spiteful she can't break free.

If she were removed from D-ville, and eventually got to know others, I honestly think in her own time, she would let go of her rigid adherence to what she was taught. But she won't be forced to do it. She won't respond to people calling her out, as it will just make her dig in deeper.

She needs space and she needs time. And she needs to experience life and hardships (normal hardships that we all go through when starting out) so she can begin to learn new ways of doing and thinking.

I truly hope that some of the kids are beginning to see the emperor has no clothes. I mean this in several ways. First, the emperor is "gothardism" next it is Patriarch, next it is attitudes about education, and finally it is Ma and Pa Dug-idiot.

I worry for Jinger, for some reason she seems fragile to me. Jana, I can't figure out. She is beautiful but seems bland. I can't figure out if that is a put on, so she can fly under the radar and sort of do her own thing, or if the blandness is a defense mechanism, or if it is a sign that her individuality was ground out of her through blanket training, flexible rulers, brainwashing, and unfair amount of parenting responsibilities.

I keep thinking about the music box story and Jana's emotional reaction to it. Putting that into the context of what we now know about the molestation has raised all kinds of questions to me. Why was Jessa acting out at night? was she fighting to stay awake so she wouldn't be fondled? Was Jana feeling guilt in some way ( not implying she is at all guilty in any of that, but that doesn't mean she might not have those feelings),

If JB and M felt that making Jana give away her prized music box was a way to forgive her annoying little sister, just what exactly did they do to those girls when they had to forgive something much worse? Jana's reaction to telling that story seemed so out of proportion to the actual situation, that it just makes me wonder if on a subconscious level, Jana was reacting to something else, but has had the music box story planted in her memory from the JB and M retelling of history, that she now believes it to be true?

That story has never added up to me, and I think there is something more nefarious behind it. Not on Jana's part, but in how the story has been reframed in her memory by her horrible parents

Or maybe Jana just has a bland personality? That isn't a bad thing. There are plenty of quiet, introverted people in the world whose interests and hobbies don't translate to television - maybe she does enjoy sewing - but isn't really a designer type, so there's nothing really to show off - she just follows a pattern and sews a dress. Or she likes to do cross word puzzles or play Candy Crush or read ( whatever it is that she's " allowed" to read ) . having that sort of personality is fine, it's no less valid than her siblings who are gregarious or have interesting hobbies or strong opinions. But it's a crappy personality to have if you are on a television show just being yourself.

I thought that was a huge overreaction to the jewlry box incident too. But now it makes more sense to me. I don't think it was necessarily even subconscious. IIRC the topic she was talking about was was something like " how do you deal with family conflict , or not getting along with a sibling" or something along those lines. I think that most likely, for her, the biggest family conflict was one she couldn't talk about - when the entire family was distraught and in chaos and stressed because of the molestation. Even though she wasn't a direct family member involved - it still would have been a huge strain on the entire family. And being older, she may very well have understood the issues better than the other kids . And she may very well not have had counseling when the rest of the family did at CPS's direction - since she wasn't directly effected. Going slightly off- topic - but it seems like siblings often get left in the lurch that way when another child is a victim of a crime, or is a criminal, or severely ill, or has a host of other issues - or talents - that bring a lot of attention. She may have felt guilty for not protecting them, or angry at her brother, or angry at her parents or a whole host of emotions - but no one really noticed since it wasn't about her.

But because it wasn't public knowledge she couldn't talk about that - so she latched on to the next angry at a sibling incident that came to mind - the jewelry box.

As to the jewelry box incident itself -- I'm pretty sure that the way she worded it wasn't that Michelle or JB told her to give Jessa her most prized possession. I think the wording was more along the lines of " Maybe instead of yelling at her, maybe she's just trying to get your attention, and if you do something nice for her maybe she'll stop" . I had the impression that it was Jenna who decided to give something that special away. Michelle may have been thinking more along the lines of " hey, your little sister feels left out, play a game with her or something " - or , even more likely " hey. You guys are constantly fighting and it's driving me nuts - for the love of God - figure out a way to get along " I was actually surprised when I heard the story that they didn't go straight to the Pearls to get Jessa to stop. So that's a positive.

I don't think Jessa kicking the bed and pestering her sister, and Jana being annoyed by it, means anything more than it would mean with any other 5 and 7 year old - which is basically that many siblings annoy each other , on purpose, all the time. And often it's in the form of the younger one doing some irritating activity over. And over. And overr and over.. . That doesn't mean Jessa was a brat, or saw Jana as a good victim , or was spoiled, or trying to not get molested. It means she was 5. At the time Josh would have been 9 . While it's possible he had been creeping in on his sisters for years just waiting for the opportunity to pounce - it's kind of unlikely that fear was the reason Jessa was kicking the bad.

[twinmama]

As an abuse survivor herself, maybe this was a trigger and OW felt she needed to keep her distance once she passed the information along.

If I am wrong about how the whole thing went down, someone correct me. But I highly doubt actual Oprah had anything to do with the letter and calling CPS. The levels of people below her on the show's staff most likely took care of the whole thing and later informed her. Regardless, it is ridiculous to think Oprah should have done anything other than let the authorities know and cancel the episode.

[SassyPants]

The nature of OW's business and her ability to, using her media platform (at that time particularly) spread information and in a way "get things done" by disseminating this information is probably the reason some think that she could have done more. She has never been one to quietly back away. And OW was certainly totally (Hey, Jill) "in the know"- someone had to make the last minute decision to pull the show and I doubt that "someone" was some rookie in the office.

I do wonder if OW knew that the what the letter revealed was, indeed, factual? I'd like to know if OW was one of those people who knew the truth, yet remained silent why JB sold his wholesome, above it all family to the media and world?????

[Trynn]

Even if she did know, what could she do? She (or her people) alert d the authorities and canceled the show. Even if she had a way of verifying the accusation, what good would it have done to tell the world? Since the police didn't do anything, the only thing accomplished if Oprah had squealed to the media would be re traumatizing the victims.

[SassyPants]

Even if she did know, what could she do? She (or her people) alert d the authorities and canceled the show. Even if she had a way of verifying the accusation, what good would it have done to tell the world? Since the police didn't do anything, the only thing accomplished if Oprah had squealed to the media would be re traumatizing the victims.

Notify TLC- 2006 was well before the series started.

In hindsight, the victims would have been much less exposed.

[JenniferJuniper]

Notify TLC- 2006 was well before the series started.

In hindsight, the victims would have been much less exposed.

Maybe she did. But probably not.

When would she have notified TLC?

The 16 Children and Moving In special had aired nearly a year earlier. The series itself wasn't in production until 2008. If she contacted TLC when she learned about the 17 Kids series, that would have been nearly 2 years after she'd reported the email to law enforcement.

Wasn't it TLC's responsibility to do the vetting? Clearly the adult Josh had not been charged with any crime in connection with the email or TLC would have stayed far away. So if you are Oprah, why would you go to TLC and tell them a rumor that was unsubstantiated? If your tip is not true but still results in TLC backing away from the new series just to be on the safe side, Jim Bob is going to an attorney, get to the bottom of the story, sue you for slander, loss of good reputation, and damages for the series that never-was (or just barely was). Oprah could of course afford this financially but it would be a very unwise move to make from publicity standpoint and she would have put her own reputation at stake for picking on a poor, innocent country boy and his lovely Christian family without a shred of evidence.

We know now that the email was true. The ultimate defense to a defamation lawsuit is the truth. Jim Bob was never going to sue anyone over the matter. But there is no way Oprah could have known a random email was true and no way she could have - or frankly should have - taken the matter past notifying the police.

[chris]

Haven't seen this news anywhere else, so......

TLC's documentary is set for August 30 at 10PM (I'm assuming EDT). Plus, TLC put out that it will be built around the stories of child sexual abuse survivors and NOT the Duggars (only mentioned Jill and Jessa will be in the documentary). Sounds to me TLC is actually trying to do this correctly

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/b ... set-815273

(Not breaking, because newsish site)