Possible Lawsuit for Josh

[nelliebelle1197]

But why a suit tomorrow? Why not next month? Or never?

We don't know the source of the rumor, but there is probably a better than 50% chance that it was generated by counsel for whoever is claiming to be a victim of Smuggar to get the Duggars on notice to pony up some cash now.

If someone really wanted to file a lawsuit and was prepared to go forward with all that entails, we wouldn't have heard any advance intel about it. The suit would have just been filed.

I do PR with lawyers and work on advocacy strategy. I seriously doubt a lawyer would leak a suit before it is filed to force settlement. The press is something you use to force settlement after filing in a case like this when there is no other option - the Duggars would have less of a reason to settle if this was coming out. It is playing a card way too early and even potentially unethical. If a lawyer leaked, it is a bad lawyer or a lawyer without much of case. 99% of lawyers are press-shy with good reason and decent lawyers know when to drop the press card. A good lawyer would also craft something with more impact than just a leak to a second-rate entertainment magazine. If a lawyer leaked this, then the NFV has a lousy lawyer.

[JenniferJuniper]

I do PR with lawyers and work on advocacy strategy. I seriously doubt a lawyer would leak a suit before it is filed to force settlement. The press is something you use to force settlement after filing in a case like this when there is no other option - the Duggars would have less of a reason to settle if this was coming out. It is playing a card way too early and even potentially unethical. If a lawyer leaked, it is a bad lawyer or a lawyer without much of case. 99% of lawyers are press-shy with good reason and decent lawyers know when to drop the press card. A good lawyer would also craft something with more impact than just a leak to a second-rate entertainment magazine. If a lawyer leaked this, then the NFV has a lousy lawyer.

Your experience with the plaintiff's bar has been somewhat different than mine. But I'm not saying anyone has gone directly to the press, as there are no actual press reports. Everything links back to something InTouch claims to have heard from someone.

No lawsuit has been filed. Therefore, if there is a threat of a lawsuit being filed, the source of that threat can come from two places - the victim herself or her counsel. The only other possibility is that some or all of the potential defendants have received a letter or representation or courtesy copy of a lawsuit from the victim's attorney and they've told someone about it. The purpose of such correspondence is to facilitate settlement prior to an actual suit being filed.

Anyone filing a lawsuit in this situation has a hurdle to overcome, the statute of limitations. If this individual was molested in 2002 and is now well into her 20's, she has to prove there was a valid reason for her not filing until now. It's may not be as easy as it sounds.

If a monetary settlement is what the victim wants, she'll likely get it without filing suit. There are risks for both sides here, and the last thing the Duggars want is a lawsuit. Not only would it surely end the show for good, they could probably kiss most speaking engagements goodbye.

If she's looking for something else, then she may go the lawsuit route. But I maintain that if a lawsuit ending in a "day in court" is her primary goal, we would not be hearing rumors about a lawsuit that hasn't been filed.

[Lazuli]

In my opinion (and experience), the emotional controls are worse than corporal punishment. Nobody needs to beat kids if the kids are convinced they will go to hell if they do that thing that they are not allowed to do.

They both are equally deplorable, but the truth is, you only have to smack a few times before the fear of violence is enough to break the spirit. It's part of the cycle of abuse. The gaslighting must be horrible in that family, and not just with threats of going to Hell. Fear of being ostracized from the clan is a much more immediate and real threat.

[nelliebelle1197]

Your experience with the plaintiff's bar has been somewhat different than mine. But I'm not saying anyone has gone directly to the press, as there are no actual press reports. Everything links back to something InTouch claims to have heard from someone.

No lawsuit has been filed. Therefore, if there is a threat of a lawsuit being filed, the source of that threat can come from two places - the victim herself or her counsel. The only other possibility is that some or all of the potential defendants have received a letter or representation or courtesy copy of a lawsuit from the victim's attorney and they've told someone about it. The purpose of such correspondence is to facilitate settlement prior to an actual suit being filed.

Anyone filing a lawsuit in this situation has a hurdle to overcome, the statute of limitations. If this individual was molested in 2002 and is now well into her 20's, she has to prove there was a valid reason for her not filing until now. It's may not be as easy as it sounds.

If a monetary settlement is what the victim wants, she'll likely get it without filing suit. There are risks for both sides here, and the last thing the Duggars want is a lawsuit. Not only would it surely end the show for good, they could probably kiss most speaking engagements goodbye.

If she's looking for something else, then she may go the lawsuit route. But I maintain that if a lawsuit ending in a "day in court" is her primary goal, we would not be hearing rumors about a lawsuit that hasn't been filed.

Or she could have mentioned it to a friend who opened her/his big mouth :(

[Lazuli]

What will " happen"? Pretty much nothing will happen on the legal end for a long , long time. All that will happen is that the person who files the suit may no longer be anonymous and there will be forty bazillion posts across the interwebz discussing every teeny tiny detail of the persons life, her relationship with the Duggar's, whether she is acting properly victimized and on and on and on.

On the legal end of it, I really don't get why people think lawsuits are some huge, momentous deal with assets frozen and drama and intrigue. Admittedly it's celebrities and salacious, so it will get tons of attention -- but there isn't generally tons of impact on people's daily lives.

Like with all the drama and speculation and the Duggar's being called liars about any possible cooperation with CPS because Josh " sued" them. The two don't neccessarily contradict each other. He likely just " sued" to have his case sealed - which is generally just a formality and doesn't imply an adversarial relationship.

People get sued all the time. Mostly for boring things. The example someone used earlier of an easement on a parking lot. Or for child support. Or because two insurance companies can't agree which driver caused an accident. Or for the return of your apartment deposit that the landlord won't return. Or changes in guardianship. Or because you think your boss is discriminating against you because of your ethnicity. Or because someone stopped paying on a loan.

I'm not even a lawyer on the Internet or anywhere else. The run of the mill people I worked with as a social worker would need to deal with lawsuits fairly frequently -- it really wasn't that dramatic.

This makes a lot of sense. But a law suit being filed could force TLC to make a decision one way or the other on the show. I really want that show canceled. It is offensive that they would give that family a platform to spin the horrific way they dealt with the incest and child abuse. I fear this will impact negatively on survivors everywhere by normalizing it, and give families dealing with similar issues the wrong idea about how to handle it.

And I'm very upset at the way the Duggars have injured members of the LGBT community, too...children as well as adults. As far as I'm concerned, they're a cult that spews a lot of hate. I don't want to see harm come to the innocent Duggars, but I also don't want other children harmed because of the gaslighting and bigotry that comes out of the parents mouths on TV, and in their community. I'd rather see them cut down several sizes, and hope they lose their power base because they are a very political family. In fact, I'd like to see all politicians that share similar views rocked by this scandal, too. Hope it destroys the conservative evangelical movement.

Hope that doesn't sound too harsh. This post isn't meant to disparage the Christian community, just the 'legitimized' fringe or cultish groups that do so much harm in our society. I honestly don't know how they've managed to get such power, when clearly a lot of them are complete whackadoodles. hehe

[Ethdyl]

Honestly all these years later the rumours have been true. It's almost unbelievable all that stuff from the old thread about what Alice said and concerned mom !

[Sundaymorning]

What I'm wondering is how reliable this in touch story is.

Do they have to be very sure that their information is correct when they publish it?

Or can they, in case it's untrue and the Duggars go after them legally, just hide behind the claim that they heard it from "sources"?

[iknowright]

This makes a lot of sense. But a law suit being filed could force TLC to make a decision one way or the other on the show. I really want that show canceled. It is offensive that they would give that family a platform to spin the horrific way they dealt with the incest and child abuse. I fear this will impact negatively on survivors everywhere by normalizing it, and give families dealing with similar issues the wrong idea about how to handle it.

And I'm very upset at the way the Duggars have injured members of the LGBT community, too...children as well as adults. As far as I'm concerned, they're a cult that spews a lot of hate. I don't want to see harm come to the innocent Duggars, but I also don't want other children harmed because of the gaslighting and bigotry that comes out of the parents mouths on TV, and in their community. I'd rather see them cut down several sizes, and hope they lose their power base because they are a very political family. In fact, I'd like to see all politicians that share similar views rocked by this scandal, too. Hope it destroys the conservative evangelical movement.

Hope that doesn't sound too harsh. This post isn't meant to disparage the Christian community, just the 'legitimized' fringe or cultish groups that do so much harm in our society. I honestly don't know how they've managed to get such power, when clearly a lot of them are complete whackadoodles. hehe

No one is immune from being brainwashed into a cult and although the Duggar/Gothard cult is the flavor of the month, I'd like to remind everyone of Jim JOnes. He was a VERY progressive liberal pastor who used religion as a front. He personally was an atheist. Later, he spat on the Bible and told his followers not to believe in the Sky God. Basically, he was heavily involved into promoting an idealistic communistic style of living and it sounded oh so wonderful to not only those who followed him (he had a large African American following), but appealed even to high ranking political leaders (Willie Brown, Angela Davis, Jerry Brown, Jimmy Carter - he had private meetings with many of these and was given a prominent community leadership position by the mayor of San Francisco - whom Jones had his followers campaign endlessly for to get elected. Even Congressman Leo Ryan upon first visiting Jonestown did not think anything was amiss until he began having notes passed to him from those who secretly wanted to leave.

In Josh's case here with the sexual molestation, I think the big problem is his age....I think his parent's COULD have been sued back in the day, but now that so much time has passed? I don't see how he can be held liable financially for something done when he himself was a minor. But maybe a legal expert can way in on this.

[Cleopatra7]

What I'm wondering is how reliable this in touch story is.

Do they have to be very sure that their information is correct when they publish it?

Or can they, in case it's untrue and the Duggars go after them legally, just hide behind the claim that they heard it from "sources"?

It's my understanding that tabloids have legal teams that advise them what they can and can't print. That's why you almost never hear about tabloids getting used for running stories that may or may not be true, because they know what they can get away with. I hope that this story of the NFV suing is true, because I want some kind of justice out of this mess. Given how small Tonitown is in general and how tiny the ATI/IFB community in particular must be, it could be that the NFV told a friend or family member what she is planning to do (but hasn't yet), who then blabbed to In Touch as others have suggested.

[Sundaymorning]

It's my understanding that tabloids have legal teams that advise them what they can and can't print. That's why you almost never hear about tabloids getting used for running stories that may or may not be true, because they know what they can get away with. I hope that this story of the NFV suing is true, because I want some kind of justice out of this mess. Given how small Tonitown is in general and how tiny the ATI/IFB community in particular must be, it could be that the NFV told a friend or family member what she is planning to do (but hasn't yet), who then blabbed to In Touch as others have suggested.

Thank you :)

What I'm curious about is what does this now mean for this particular story?

Can we assume that it is at least partly true? Or could it simply be a hoax in order to get attention?

[Eighth-of-eleven]

I hope that the NFV is able to proceed with whatever option will be best for her progress toward healing. All of her options will be difficult.

[hennypenny]

As to the "Harry" info, I would like to remind everyone that the Josh molestation rumors have been on the internet for years, but were always dismissed. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss "Harry" or his info entirely.

Yes, this.

I know that the truth about Josh has been known in our area for years. I have known since 2008. I won't discuss how I knew but it's not hard to imagine. Police, dhs, court, all those people had their hands on the police report over the years. Those people have friends and family that they whispered about it. The only reason that many people (including me) did not say anything is that they didn't want to harm the duggar girls. Those girls deserved the privacy. However, when the duggars did the robo call and all the noises against the LGBT community around here, I knew people were going to get itchy and it might come out. For myself I couldn't watch one episode of their show, see a special, or watch interviews. I was generally disgusted by the parent's obvious disregard for the safety of their children. I couldn't even register here because I was afraid I would drunkenly go on a rant and talk about it :lol:. I am very sorry those girls had to come out about it however there is a certain amount of schadenfreude that takes hold of me thinking about a long drawn out lawsuit :popcorn2:. People in this area, they are nice folks but it's small and when one person knows, count on 20 knowing as well.

[imjustasteph]

Realistically, they have basically no culpability here. all they say is that an anonymous source has told them the NFV is suing. They don't claim to have spoken to the victim, witnessed anything, or anything of the sort.

I could call up In Touch and say, hey, I don't want to give you my name but I shared a piece of gum with Jessa Duggar once and she told me she had terrible nightmares about monsters touching her inappropriately, and they could run a story "Person who knows Jessa Duggar says Josh caused nightmares!" and they'd be fine, because they clearly told the readers it was gossip and hearsay. (The body of the story would include 'person who says she knows Jessa' to be completely accurate, since they don't know I do -- and I certainly don't.)

The culpability they do have is from the readers. If you keep buying Weekly World News when they keep failing to produce the Bat Boy and the pregnant 2-year-old keeps failing to surface on any legit news, they can keep printing it every week. If they fear the readers not shelling out anymore once they're caught in a lie, they won't lie (much).

Legal culpability? I suppose at an extreme stretch, after a lot of fighting and a lot of freedom-of-the-press defenses, they could possibly be forced to produce their source (possibly only to the judge and not the public) but they couldn't be held responsible for saying "so-and-so said this was the thing going to happen" like if they just said "this thing is going to happen."

[mrs]

Just curious, where would the potential lawsuit be filed? Where the incident took place or where the victum/molester resides? Could people be looking for the lawsuit in Arkansas? But it may be filed else where(perhaps where the Big Sandy ATI location)?

Edited: posting by phone sucks.

[RosyDaisy]

Yes, this.

I know that the truth about Josh has been known in our area for years. I have known since 2008. I won't discuss how I knew but it's not hard to imagine. Police, dhs, court, all those people had their hands on the police report over the years. Those people have friends and family that they whispered about it. The only reason that many people (including me) did not say anything is that they didn't want to harm the duggar girls. Those girls deserved the privacy. However, when the duggars did the robo call and all the noises against the LGBT community around here, I knew people were going to get itchy and it might come out. For myself I couldn't watch one episode of their show, see a special, or watch interviews. I was generally disgusted by the parent's obvious disregard for the safety of their children. I couldn't even register here because I was afraid I would drunkenly go on a rant and talk about it [emoji38]. I am very sorry those girls had to come out about it however there is a certain amount of schadenfreude that takes hold of me thinking about a long drawn out lawsuit [emoji14]opcorn2:. People in this area, they are nice folks but it's small and when one person knows, count on 20 knowing as well.

WTH are you afraid of? What could possibly be more important than the safety of children? Enough of the secrecy! You may not realize it, but not coming forward does more harm than good.

NOTE: This isn't all directed at you hennypenny.

[hennypenny]

WTH are you afraid of? What could possibly be more important than the safety of children? Enough of the secrecy! You may not realize it, but not coming forward does more harm than good.

NOTE: This isn't all directed at you hennypenny.

I'm going to guess about some things but I do not speak for all of the people that know.

1) it was a juvenile case, those are pretty locked up tight. You could lose your job due to talking about it.

2) it was essentially too late to do much of anything. Dhs, judge, police pretty much washed their hands of it. Josh was an adult and moved out.

3) I think the 5th NFV (and my guess 6th NFV) were not known about. I had some sort of vague idea there were more NFV but couldn't really be sure.

4) I don't know of one person that ever thought it could be proven. No one understood that the report was available for the public consumption.

5) Over the years I thought about how I would feel if my secrets would be put out in rumors. It made me think twice about talking about it.

Does that make any sense?

[Walking Cat Bed]

Or she could have mentioned it to a friend who opened her/his big mouth :(

I'm inclined to believe that it was a "friend" of the NFV -- or someone who overheard her/her family mention something related to a lawsuit, put two and two together, and saw the vague shape of something like a 4. Hopefully the NFV and her family have a good lawyer who not only wouldn't reveal something like this to the media, but also warned them against doing so.

[ILoveJellybeans]

But it is a little bit like Lourdes's case against Doug Phillips, Vision Forum, and NCFIC: Resignation of the Rapist, Bumbling confession letter to the public; Downplaying by their supporters; Lawsuit. IIRC, i don't think her identity was common knowledge until after it was filed. If it had been as mainstream a story as TLC and the Duggars surely someone could have spoiled that a case was going to be filed.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=21996

Still, it's interesting that it came out on InTouch over a holiday weekend again. As someone else on FJ already suggested, maybe all this is just InTouch blowing smoke as a way to get site traffic.

Lourdes's identity was sort of an open secret on FJ and most other places within the fundie snarking world, we all knew who she really was, but nobody outright named her, we gave her a pseudonym until she went public with the lawsuit, implying she consented for people to know who she was.

For the non Duggar victim, theres pretty much nothing. Nobody knows who she is (well, there must be some insider to the church who knew, but they are not telling, although fundies tend to be very isolationist)...but FJ are not actively trying, as its already bad enough that four victims were outed against their wills, and the identity of the fifth deserves to be protected. We are shockingly good at working things out.

[RosyDaisy]

I'm going to guess about some things but I do not speak for all of the people that know.

1) it was a juvenile case, those are pretty locked up tight. You could lose your job due to talking about it.

2) it was essentially too late to do much of anything. Dhs, judge, police pretty much washed their hands of it. Josh was an adult and moved out.

3) I think the 5th NFV (and my guess 6th NFV) were not known about. I had some sort of vague idea there were more NFV but couldn't really be sure.

4) I don't know of one person that ever thought it could be proven. No one understood that the report was available for the public consumption.

5) Over the years I thought about how I would feel if my secrets would be put out in rumors. It made me think twice about talking about it.

Does that make any sense?

It kind of makes sense. However, I'm getting the impression you know more than what you're saying. Maybe I'm wrong.

[Lazuli]

I'm going to guess about some things but I do not speak for all of the people that know.

1) it was a juvenile case, those are pretty locked up tight. You could lose your job due to talking about it.

2) it was essentially too late to do much of anything. Dhs, judge, police pretty much washed their hands of it. Josh was an adult and moved out.

3) I think the 5th NFV (and my guess 6th NFV) were not known about. I had some sort of vague idea there were more NFV but couldn't really be sure.

4) I don't know of one person that ever thought it could be proven. No one understood that the report was available for the public consumption.

5) Over the years I thought about how I would feel if my secrets would be put out in rumors. It made me think twice about talking about it.

Does that make any sense?

I do understand where you are coming from. Plus, the Duggars are a powerful clan. It would be very intimidating to report them. But I will say that if anyone is facing this choice now, don't err on the side of the caution. Take the risk, because once a child is injured in this way, they carry it for the rest of their lives. It's worth the personal discomfort if you can save even one child from this fate.

For me personally, I have alerted the CAS (Canadian version of CPS/DHS) when I was made aware of the abuse of a child. Yes, I knew there probably wouldn't be sufficient proof to do anything about it, but I felt I had to say something to live with my conscience. I'm a survivor of sibling incest, myself. I wish someone had spoken up for me when I was too wee to stop it, or to understand that what had been done to me was a crime.

[Lainey]

For me personally, I have alerted the CAS (Canadian version of CPS/DHS) when I was made aware of the abuse of a child. Yes, I knew there probably wouldn't be sufficient proof to do anything about it, but I felt I had to say something to live with my conscience.

Me too, just recently in fact. I had to call CFS (that's what we call it where I live--Child & Family Services) on my friend because she's an alcoholic and she kept putting her toddler daughter in danger. I didn't want to do it, but I had to. I couldn't live with myself if something happened to her daughter, and I knew and hadn't done anything about it.

It sucks, though, and it is hard. :( It's still hard, but at least I know the little one is safe now.

[Sister Mozz]

Yes, this.

I know that the truth about Josh has been known in our area for years. I have known since 2008. I won't discuss how I knew but it's not hard to imagine.

You echo what my friend who lives in NWA told me when the news broke. That she had known for years and thought more people did. She didn't volunteer more info and I haven't begged for any other tidbits, but it was interesting that it was basically an open secret in the Tontitown area.

[Nic]

You echo what my friend who lives in NWA told me when the news broke. That she had known for years and thought more people did. She didn't volunteer more info and I haven't begged for any other tidbits, but it was interesting that it was basically an open secret in the Tontitown area.

So are you saying that Duggar house is always that house that you walk a little bit faster past? Or if kids are playing catch and they lose the ball over the fence, it's a write off?

[FundieFarmer]

If it's such an open secret, I'm surprised it hadn't blown up sooner. It took an angry couple to blow it out of the water...what took so long for everybody else?

[Rescinded and Mended]

The thing that bothers me the most about the molestations being such an open secret is the fact that, despite Michelle and Jim Bob's so-called "safeguards" (locking the doors, having all the boys sleep outside in the bus), people were still coming over to visit and allowing their children to be in the house with Josh, at least during the day.

The police report states that Josh cornered and molested one of his sisters in the laundry room. He could have done the same to any daytime visitors that were around. How does anyone know that he didn't? How do the parents of these visiting fundie girls justify letting their daughters anywhere near Josh?

I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if there were more than the five victims listed in the report.