Possible Lawsuit for Josh

[December]

I cannot wrap by mind around the fact that the Duggars do not believe in private conversations before engagement, yet JB and M sat on molestation for an entire year, a year in which they had time to add another kid, before they sought pseudo-help.

More concerned with making sure pre-marriage lips and hearts were pure than with getting a 14 y old boy who was molesting young girls, most of them his sisters, help. More concerned with preventing private conversations and hand holding pre-engagement than protecting their young daughters from a repeat offender.

WTH is wrong with them? It just defies all logic.

Also, for all of JB's religious drivel, his go-to move is lying. Does he not realize that lying is a sin, dishonest and a judge of his character or lack there of?

Private conversations could lead to off-script discussions and individual thoughts. It's very logical if you are trying to create an environment where you have complete control over others' lives and minds. It's very messed up and cultish, but it's not illogical.

Also, I don't think lying is a concern for them. They can excuse it by playing the superiority card; they're too godly to be actually lying, so it must be a white lie. Plus, aren't they making up a bunch of other rules that aren't in the actual Bible? If you're making up the rules, you're going to make ones that benefit you.

[DGayle]

An even more poignant line given the fact that, according to the Duggars, Josh was technically never caught, but confessed.

He was caught leaving the girls' room.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

I think it's fine, and plausible, that 20-year old Anna was "too young to know what she was doing" and "brainwashed" and "screwed up because of her upbringing."

But then you have to accept the same for 14-year old Josh.

In other words, you can't say one kid's stupid behavior is OK because of his age, and then blame another kid for doing something wrong at a similar age (actually, six years younger).

I gotta discount a lot of what I read here, because no one is admitting the possibility that there is a Josh who acted out sexually at 14, was truly remorseful by 16, and never reoffended by 27.

I'm not saying that's who Josh is. Who knows, maybe he wasn't remorseful or anything. But you really can't have an honest discussion about this matter without accepting that Josh COULD be a rehabilitated person. I can't make Josh a scapegoat for my dislike of the Duggar's values.

In contrast, M and JB were adults and should be held fully responsible for their behavior.

I'm not discounting that possibility. HOWEVER, his actions were predatory in nature, over a year long span (at least), and IF he didn't want to do it, he never received the help he needed. I don't think Josh is a pedophile, I think he was opportunistic. His 5th victim was an adult when she was interviewed, which means that she had to be at least his age when he targeted her. I don't think he's necessarily a threat to his daughters, but then I wouldn't rule that possibility out.

I also don't think that anyone's making him a scapegoat. I mean, some people are projecting more on him than they should, but I think that's different than scapegoating.

[DGayle]

Reminds me of Michael Jackson's alleged settlements to alleged victims.

Except there's been overwhelming evidence MJ didn't molest those 2 kids. Josh definitely did at least 5.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

You all do realize that the judge that just ordered to expunge the record was the judge who presided over the FINS case, right? Maybe the NFV is upset because the judge expunged a record that she could have used in court?

Wouldn't the NFV have her own police report, dhs investigation, FINS order?

My thing is why is one witness allowed to expunge the ENTIRE report. I don't have a problem with her expunging her part of it, but if the whole thing is expunged, shouldn't they be required to contact the other victims?

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

From some of the comments on this board, YES, I think there are people here who believe she knew every detail. I disagree.

IMO, the Kellers and Anna received a more sanitized version than what we all heard during MK's interview.

I don't think they gave EVERY detail, but I imagine the victims were revealed (at least in a general term like "some sisters and a friend"). I also wouldn't be surprised if it was part of the ritual before sending the boys out to sleep in the RV while the guests got the boy's rooms (which, by the way, is gross -- boys rooms always smell like locker rooms). Remember, Anna said they learned the first time she STAYED with the family. And, their church also is VERY big on confessing your sins and forgiving others who are brothers and sisters in Christ. The Kellers would have seen it as a chance to be "Christ-like" and the Duggars were probably instructed to have Josh do that when guest came over.

[MalteseBaby]

In case the story about Josh getting sued is true: do you think the Duggars anticipated getting a lawsuit?

Because I think they publicly confessed a whole lot which could be used against them in court.

I know that news as reported can be wrong, but in a civil case involving the Duggars, I would hope that the report was gone over with a legal team and prepared carefully.

Tonight, on our 5 PM news in the largest TV market share in Texas, it was stated by a news reporter that Jim Bob Duggar is now being sued by an alleged victim of Joshua Duggar involving sexual abuse when both defendant and plaintiff were minors. The statement that Joshua Duggar has a civil lawsuit filed against him was an addendum, as if this was already known to all.

I took this to mean that a separate, new lawsuit has been filed against Jim Bob Duggar, and more recently than the one filed against Josh, as it was a casual comment about Josh, and the news about Jim Bob Duggar was the lead- off.It was a CBS report in the 5 PM news. Reporter was one of their regular guys.

[lascuba]

He was caught leaving the girls' room.

And when he touched the little girl on his lap, it was one of the older girls who immediately ran to their parents to tell them what was happening. The girl who assaulted in the laundry room also told.

I have to reread the police report, because I also recall that at least one of the girls woke up to Josh touching her and/or witnessed him touching another girl in her sleep. That might be what pissed me off about that interview--the blatant lie that they only knew because Josh confessed every time, and that the girls had no idea it had happened until they were told.

[DGayle]

New member and first time poster here.....I wonder.....If the TTH is deemed a church, does that make JB a preacher or even a lay preacher? Are preachers mandated reporters? How about the "church elders" that Josh "confessed" to? Are they mandated reporters?

Go easy on me.

The TTH apparently isn't a registered homechurch, though that doesn't mean they aren't getting out of taxes other ways.

Ministers and preachers are generally considered people it's safe to tell you killed someone. They aren't mandated reporters. Look at the Catholic church, and all the cover-ups going on.

[Sundaymorning]

Boob and J'Chelle getting sued would be a good thing. They are just as responsible for this mess as Josh is, and, unlike Josh, they were actually adults when the molestations happend. I hold them fully accountable.

[ADoyle90815]

Boob and J'Chelle getting sued would be a good thing. They are just as responsible for this mess as Josh is, and, unlike Josh, they were actually adults when the molestations happend. I hold them fully accountable.

I agree, if anyone should get sued, it has to be Boob and J'Chelle since they were the adults, so they should be held accountable for covering up the molestation.

[JenniferJuniper]

Boob and J'Chelle getting sued would be a good thing. They are just as responsible for this mess as Josh is, and, unlike Josh, they were actually adults when the molestations happend. I hold them fully accountable.

They can and should be held liable for anything that happened after they found out Josh molested someone.

They can't be accountable for things that happened before they had any idea what he was up to. As a plaintiff, I'd allege he was negligently supervised by his parents, but I'm not sure its all that great an argument given his age.

Of course, sorting out who knew what when could be a total cluster. I personally don't believe the Duggars' overly simplistic, linear story. And if a non-family victim does want to sue them, it may be because she's furious over their lies.

[lostfemme]

The TTH apparently isn't a registered homechurch, though that doesn't mean they aren't getting out of taxes other ways.

Ministers and preachers are generally considered people it's safe to tell you killed someone. They aren't mandated reporters. Look at the Catholic church, and all the cover-ups going on.

That depends on the state and whether the clergy or pastor was hearing a confession. My state's laws make everyone a mandated reporter of child neglect or abuse, so no pastor is exempt. Arkansas allows for privilege between a pastor or priest and the person confessing, but it must be a private communication, not in front of a whole church the way Josh confessed. So the elders or preacher at that church should have reported Josh.

That's my understanding anyway.

[carebaer]

And when he touched the little girl on his lap, it was one of the older girls who immediately ran to their parents to tell them what was happening. The girl who assaulted in the laundry room also told.

I have to reread the police report, because I also recall that at least one of the girls woke up to Josh touching her and/or witnessed him touching another girl in her sleep. That might be what pissed me off about that interview--the blatant lie that they only knew because Josh confessed every time, and that the girls had no idea it had happened until they were told.

It's not clear who ran and called after the molestation on the lap. Some have speculated it was Josh himself and others that it was a sibling.

One of the victims (likely Jill from the interview) stated that she woke up but thought Josh was trying to take her blanket. It is possible that Josh realized she was waking up and moved away enough that she just felt the movement of her blanket and only after his confession connected the strange blanket incident. It's possible she learned to lie to protect her brother. We can guess but can't say for sure whether the blanket story is a lie.

[lostfemme]

A few more snippets from "Harry" on another forum -

" State AG is looking into this town's efforts to shield this family as well as off duty police working for the Duggar family. They have been all over Washington County Arkansas today."

"There are three investigations on going by DHS on Duggars, as well as investigations by Washington County Sheriff, Springdale police, and supposedly one by Tontitown police, this last one is the one the AG is looking into."

"This is only rumor but people there are sayng there may be others to come forward when the victim that is not related to the family goes public. My understanding is she is going to let her name be used, right now she is very much angry are not only at the Duggars but her parents. Not sure why but .......something happened there. She may have learned her parents benefited from her being harmed years ago by Josh."

There is one last rumor on that board, brought up by another person from Washington County that "Harry" has confirmed. It's particularly nasty and involves a wider generational problem that has persisted for a long time in Duggarland. If there is someway to share it privately, I would, but it's only a rumor and the board I'm visiting is anonymous. Does the Spoiler feature here block out post contents to anyone but members?

[DGayle]

That depends on the state and whether the clergy or pastor was hearing a confession. My state's laws make everyone a mandated reporter of child neglect or abuse, so no pastor is exempt. Arkansas allows for privilege between a pastor or priest and the person confessing, but it must be a private communication, not in front of a whole church the way Josh confessed. So the elders or preacher at that church should have reported Josh.

That's my understanding anyway.

Speaking in front of a church can't even be argued as confidential, but private conversations open a different can of worms, and it sounds like the laws have enough loopholes that private conversations might skirt some mandated reporting laws:

https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubPDFs/cl ... unications

"This inclusive language appears to include clergy but may be interpreted otherwise."

It sounds like a clusterfuck and other state laws might give enough to exempt people, and how long before someone cries "religious freedom" as an excuse for not reporting. Being a mandated reporter is just lip service when "Privileged communications may be exempt from the requirement to report suspected abuse or neglect."

[DGayle]

A few more snippets from "Harry" on another forum -

" State AG is looking into this town's efforts to shield this family as well as off duty police working for the Duggar family. They have been all over Washington County Arkansas today."

"There are three investigations on going by DHS on Duggars, as well as investigations by Washington County Sheriff, Springdale police, and supposedly one by Tontitown police, this last one is the one the AG is looking into."

"This is only rumor but people there are sayng there may be others to come forward when the victim that is not related to the family goes public. My understanding is she is going to let her name be used, right now she is very much angry are not only at the Duggars but her parents. Not sure why but .......something happened there. She may have learned her parents benefited from her being harmed years ago by Josh."

There is one last rumor on that board, brought up by another person from Washington County that "Harry" has confirmed. It's particularly nasty and involves a wider generational problem that has persisted for a long time in Duggarland. If there is someway to share it privately, I would, but it's only a rumor and the board I'm visiting is anonymous. Does the Spoiler feature here block out post contents to anyone but members?

We had a "hidden" button that was disabled. That made it so the hidden content was only viewable by members. Now you can only hide content by using PMs and telling people directly.

[carebaer]

That depends on the state and whether the clergy or pastor was hearing a confession. My state's laws make everyone a mandated reporter of child neglect or abuse, so no pastor is exempt. Arkansas allows for privilege between a pastor or priest and the person confessing, but it must be a private communication, not in front of a whole church the way Josh confessed. So the elders or preacher at that church should have reported Josh.

That's my understanding anyway.

The exemption for clergy includes and exemption if information was received through a method required to be kept confidential by that particular religion or if the clergy member "Received the knowledge of the suspected child maltreatment from the alleged offender in the context of a statement of admission"

I'm not sure if there is any case law to clarify the 2nd clause, but in theory if the church generally required public confession than I think such a confession would qualify as a "statement of admission"

[Sundaymorning]

Just curious, about how much would Boob & J'Chelle and Josh have to pay if the lawsuit against them would be a success?

ETA: would Boob and J'Chelle have to pay more since they were adults? Or how do you deal with this in the US?

[Hisey]

I'm not discounting that possibility. HOWEVER, his actions were predatory in nature, over a year long span (at least), and IF he didn't want to do it, he never received the help he needed. I don't think Josh is a pedophile, I think he was opportunistic. His 5th victim was an adult when she was interviewed, which means that she had to be at least his age when he targeted her. I don't think he's necessarily a threat to his daughters, but then I wouldn't rule that possibility out.

I also don't think that anyone's making him a scapegoat. I mean, some people are projecting more on him than they should, but I think that's different than scapegoating.

I know. I think all that their projecting actually minimizes the experiences of victims of severe sexual assault. Their perpetrators did something way worse than Josh did, yet everyone is acting like it's the same.

[RosyDaisy]

I'm having a lively discussion with a few people about all the Duggars legal problems on another board. There is one fellow who keeps posting inside information. He could be a troll though he doesn't act that way. Why enter a discussion between 4 or 5 people, buried deep inside the comments of an old article, if he wants to seem like an insider? Here is his latest, he calls himself "Harry", take it with a grain of salt -

"I just learned Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar are being sued as well as Josh Duggar.

It appears this victim is going against her parents' wishes and her church. She was questioned repeatedly in the past month by more than one agency that is investigating the Duggars for child sex abuse. I understand this victim is having a very tough time of it both mentally and emotionally as well as losing friends and family over this. I do NOT blame this victim for doing this, she is very young herself and this is, and did, harm her without a doubt."

If posting this is against this board's rules, I will delete immediately.

This kind of make me think the victim being referred to isn't one of the 5 we know about. I think it's very possible she is a completely different victim. Since this scandal broke, I have always believed there were more victims. Josh is child molester and pedophile with an interesting twist. He only molest girls from like minded families. I shudder to think what the victim count would be if not for the isolation.

[Nic]

I think it's fine, and plausible, that 20-year old Anna was "too young to know what she was doing" and "brainwashed" and "screwed up because of her upbringing."

But then you have to accept the same for 14-year old Josh.

In other words, you can't say one kid's stupid behavior is OK because of his age, and then blame another kid for doing something wrong at a similar age (actually, six years younger).

I gotta discount a lot of what I read here, because no one is admitting the possibility that there is a Josh who acted out sexually at 14, was truly remorseful by 16, and never reoffended by 27.

I'm not saying that's who Josh is. Who knows, maybe he wasn't remorseful or anything. But you really can't have an honest discussion about this matter without accepting that Josh COULD be a rehabilitated person. I can't make Josh a scapegoat for my dislike of the Duggar's values.

In contrast, M and JB were adults and should be held fully responsible for their behavior.

I think a difference is every adult in Anna's life was encouraging to marry and start a life with Josh. At every point in their relationship, both sets of parents were endorsing their actions. Anna relied on her parents to make decisions. The whole culture is set up for that.

Though his parents did stop Josh once they found out, they weren't every encouraging it.

There's also a difference between doing something stupid but with the best of intentions and doing something that is criminal and wrong.

[RosyDaisy]

I feel that it is better if Josh is forced into treatment and assessment of his problems. Everyone is safer in the long run.

The safest thing for everyone is Josh in prison and getting therapy, but that ain't gonna happen unless there are recent victims. I hope to God they're aren't any, but I have sickening feeling he didn't stop at 5 victims.

[RosyDaisy]

A few more snippets from "Harry" on another forum -

" State AG is looking into this town's efforts to shield this family as well as off duty police working for the Duggar family. They have been all over Washington County Arkansas today."

"There are three investigations on going by DHS on Duggars, as well as investigations by Washington County Sheriff, Springdale police, and supposedly one by Tontitown police, this last one is the one the AG is looking into."

"This is only rumor but people there are sayng there may be others to come forward when the victim that is not related to the family goes public. My understanding is she is going to let her name be used, right now she is very much angry are not only at the Duggars but her parents. Not sure why but .......something happened there. She may have learned her parents benefited from her being harmed years ago by Josh."

There is one last rumor on that board, brought up by another person from Washington County that "Harry" has confirmed. It's particularly nasty and involves a wider generational problem that has persisted for a long time in Duggarland. If there is someway to share it privately, I would, but it's only a rumor and the board I'm visiting is anonymous. Does the Spoiler feature here block out post contents to anyone but members?

Could you please PM the info to me. I'm very curious.

[OkToBeTakei]

I don't feel bad for the Duggars or Anna. The kids yes but JimChelle and Josh no. They thought they were untouchable and God's. They thought they were better than everyone else. I hope they get exposed for everything. JB can't work his way out of this one. He's not that fame smart. I think that interview hurt them a lot. JB should've just kept quiet and stay off tv, but no he thinks he's jesus and can perform miracles.

Wow if this does turn out to be true...... man oh man.

The two bolded comments, totally agree.

If it is an un-named victim pursuing I could easily see why that interview and their social media postings since (some family members) would anger. They have done their level best to minimise the whole situation and attempted to cast themselves as victims. Time will tell I suppose.