Possible Lawsuit for Josh

[LucyLocket]

Do you think a change of venue would be successful if pressed by Victim 5's attorney? The courts in Washington County might allow it, simply because they don't want to handle the press coverage or the security issues. Maybe it would move to Little Rock, and become a whole new situation for Jim Bob and his cop friends.

The "Harry" in the other board is also saying that Arkansas DHS is making a big deal over a conflict of interest by Josh hiring off duty cops to guard his home while DHS is pursuing an active investigation against him and his parents. The Duggars are stirring up shit they don't have the capacity to recognize. If true, then that is another solid reason for a change of venue.

It's possible, although I have no idea whether it's a civil trial instead of a criminal trial would affect that. This would probably be the final nail in the show's coffin if they are forced to testify and they say anything contrary to what they've said publicly. They have everything to lose and nothing to gain from this. It's an interesting situation in that it would probably cost JB more upfront monetarily to settle out of court if money is her true objective, but even a small verdict in a trial that costs them little will do what could be millions of dollars in irreparable damage to their brand. Rock, meet hard place.

[defraudedbychipendales]

People are referring to the actual incidents. Josh confessed to his parents several times, as well as the police officers. It's all in the police report(s), and JB & M confirmed that he came to the m several times seeking help.

It's still hearsay unless it is written in his hand, recorded in his voice/image, or someone still has an un-redacted police report. Confessing to his parents makes it their word against anyone else, and if they lie, they just all have to tow the party line. Which the Duggars have shown that they are very good at.

Maybe the letter writer is Josh, and it's more of a dear diary thing

[justoneoftwo]

It's still hearsay unless it is written in his hand, recorded in his voice/image, or someone still has an un-redacted police report. Confessing to his parents makes it their word against anyone else, and if they lie, they just all have to tow the party line. Which the Duggars have shown that they are very good at.

Maybe the letter writer is Josh, and it's more of a dear diary thing

Wouldn't his admitting it be a statement against interest and if it was to the party suing it would fit into an exception?

[lostfemme]

I don't expect its a great case, but maybe enough to make them pay you to go away.

Exactly. TLC probably doesn't want to answer any questions about whether they received the Oprah email (likely since Harpo and TLC are owned by Discovery channel) and what sort of investigation they did upon receiving it. TLC is becoming the child sexual abuse channel. What's this, the fourth show with abuse issues? They would pay fast to keep all this quiet. So suing them would be lucrative.

signed,

my greedy lawyer self

[Hisey]

I think it's fine, and plausible, that 20-year old Anna was "too young to know what she was doing" and "brainwashed" and "screwed up because of her upbringing."

But then you have to accept the same for 14-year old Josh.

In other words, you can't say one kid's stupid behavior is OK because of his age, and then blame another kid for doing something wrong at a similar age (actually, six years younger).

I gotta discount a lot of what I read here, because no one is admitting the possibility that there is a Josh who acted out sexually at 14, was truly remorseful by 16, and never reoffended by 27.

I'm not saying that's who Josh is. Who knows, maybe he wasn't remorseful or anything. But you really can't have an honest discussion about this matter without accepting that Josh COULD be a rehabilitated person. I can't make Josh a scapegoat for my dislike of the Duggar's values.

In contrast, M and JB were adults and should be held fully responsible for their behavior.

[JenniferJuniper]

I think it's fine, and plausible, that 20-year old Anna was "too young to know what she was doing" and "brainwashed" and "screwed up because of her upbringing."

But then you have to accept the same for 14-year old Josh.

In other words, you can't say one kid's stupid behavior is OK because of his age, and then blame another kid for doing something wrong at a similar age (actually, six years younger).

Wha?

This is an utter false equivalency.

Josh was 15 years old when he rubbed his 5 year old sister's genital region under her clothing. This isn't "stupid behavior". It's something far sinister, and there is no doubt he knew it was wrong because he went weeping and wailing to confess to his parents when he molested other girls the year before.

Sheltered, fundie Anna married reality show star and fundie royalty Josh at age 20 with the full support and encouragement of her parents.

How are these in any way equivalent actions?

[Alyciabaleesha]

It's still hearsay unless it is written in his hand, recorded in his voice/image, or someone still has an un-redacted police report. Confessing to his parents makes it their word against anyone else, and if they lie, they just all have to tow the party line. Which the Duggars have shown that they are very good at.

Maybe the letter writer is Josh, and it's more of a dear diary thing

I was just correcting your misconception. The police report states that Josh confessed to to his parents, and his parents said the same thing, as did his sisters. That's why people are saying that Josh confessed. They're not referencing his words today (the press release you quoted), but rather the words he may or may not have spoken when all of this was happening. I don't really know or care whether it's hearsay or not - it makes the Duggars look even worse than they did before that information came to light, and I hope they're held accountable for knowingly putting many minors in harm's way on the idea that "Jesus fixed him, so it's cool."

I've no doubt that they're lying about the extent of the incidents, and I also doubt that Josh truly confessed everything. What he did confess to, however, and what the victims told the police during the investigation is bad enough.

[Trynn]

I do believe it is possible Josh never re offended. I pray to whatever diety that exists that this is the case.

However, I do not believe he had any real therapy...

If he had, I might be inclined to entertain the possibility that maybe Josh never WILL reoffend.

However, without real help, I believe that, if he hasn't re offended, he might in the future.

I am willing to consider both angles.

However, I disagree that brainwashed Anna's decisions are even remotely on the same level as Josh's.

But then, I also truly believe that Anna was not told the whole truth. I believe she may still not believe everything the media is saying happened.

Her first loyalty is to her husband. She may truly believe him over the police report, which it's possible she's still never read.

I'm just not convinced that Anna ever knew all the details, and who knows, maybe she still doesn't.

[hennypenny]

Does anyone know if the NFV was included in the FINS case? Surely the judge would have opened a FINS case on the NFV just like she did on the duggars. And just like the order for the duggars would be counseling and DHS involvement, the NFV would be the same, right?

[pega127]

I'd love to be privy to Grandma Mary's take on all of this mess. What has SHE been saying to her son and grandson (first confessed) up to this point!

[chelleinchicago]

I really, really hope this is true. I can't imagine how hard it was for the non-familial victim to watch those Fox News interviews and listen to the way the Duggars (especially the parents) minimized what Josh did, as if it was no big deal. When they swore everyone received counseling, when they swore none of the girls knew what was happening, I hope she was screaming at the TV or computer screen. How dare they speak for her! She's had to watch them lie about Josh for years. She's watched them get magazine covers, trips and fame from selling an image she knew wasn't truthful.

All of that had to fester and hurt. I also hope she was the one who gave the heads up to In Touch in the first place. Whoever she is, even if this is not true, I'm cheering her on and wish all good things for her. You go girl! :clap:

[hennypenny]

You all do realize that the judge that just ordered to expunge the record was the judge who presided over the FINS case, right? Maybe the NFV is upset because the judge expunged a record that she could have used in court?

Wouldn't the NFV have her own police report, dhs investigation, FINS order?

[DGayle]

I understand completely what you are saying. Also the filing of this lawsuit would "out" her as a victim and she would be thrust into the public eye. I would say it is for compensation for any mental anguish she has under gone by the actions of Josh. Why she chose now to come out is irrelevant to me.. if she is seeking compensation she is completely in her right and I will not stand in judgement of her for that. If it is to nail the coffin closed on the Duggar brand, well, now might be the time she finally feels like she has the power to do so. Remember, for years the Duggars were pretty powerful people in that little corner of Arkansas, she may not have felt like she could take on the whole Duggar entourage. Now that they are quickly becoming public black sheep, she may finally feel like this her opportunity to seek some redemption.

It's a fair question to ask, and I think a judge would. The law's been changed so that a victim can seek damages if they are later harmed by what happened, and that's happened here. It would have sucked living the years seeing them on TV and in the news and on magazines, but what's changed is that there's a chance her name could get released. That's going to be stressful. What happened to her is now national news. That's damaging to her mentally. She's being revictimized. It's not InTouch's fault. It's the Duggars-3' fault for concealing this.

[DGayle]

We still don't know what exactly Josh told Anna and her parents.

For all we know he could have just said he did some things as a kid that was wrong and he's asked for forgiveness from the victims and they have forgiven him.

If he were vague about what he did then Anna and her parents would have been in the dark.

If he were totally honest and said he groped and molested his sisters and someone else (and even if they said he was forgiven) then Anna and her parents were crazy for getting involved with the Duggars.

The Kellers say they knew everything beforehand. They've already said this, so they're screwed.

[DGayle]

I've never heard of a settlement that wasn't contingent on those terms. There was a case recently where the child of a family who settled posted about it on facebook and they had to give it all back. I agree the Duggars never want to seem wrong, but this wouldn't be evidence of it, just boiler plate settlement language.

I remember that case. The terms were absolute confidentiality regarding the outcome, and then their daughter went of about a big trip the family was going on because if the money from that settlement. Since she knew, it meant her parents broke confidentiality.

[Sundaymorning]

In case the story about Josh getting sued is true: do you think the Duggars anticipated getting a lawsuit?

Because I think they publicly confessed a whole lot which could be used against them in court.

[lascuba]

In case the story about Josh getting sued is true: do you think the Duggars anticipated getting a lawsuit?

Because I think they publicly confessed a whole lot which could be used against them in court.

I doubt it. I think they're genuinely shocked at all the repercussions stemming from the molestation reveal. They'd been in the clear for years, had become famous media darlings, beloved by many...if they had ever thought about what might happen if the truth had been revealed, they probably assumed that it would cause a mild ripple and that it would be mostly the public haters who would make noise. And when that didn't happen and they did that interview, they genuinely believed that their "no big deal" and "it's the media's fault" approach would pacify the public. The Duggars clearly have no idea how to live in a world where the media doesn't pretend to believe their bullshit.

[JenniferJuniper]

In case the story about Josh getting sued is true: do you think the Duggars anticipated getting a lawsuit?

Because I think they publicly confessed a whole lot which could be used against them in court.

My guess is they didn't. One would think their lawyers would have warned them not to speak to anyone about the matter because 1) Even if they think they know the 5th victim well, they really couldn't know what she would do when the news broke and 2) Boobster and the DQ cannot know for sure if their little prince mildly inappropriately touched any other people.

We still don't know if there really will be a lawsuit, but it was stupid of them to speak out immediately, especially with Jim Bob being complicit in a cover-up. But I think they wanted to do something immediately to stop enough bleeding to save the show. Bad idea.

Josh, on the other hand, appears to be taking his counsel's advice. At least for now. It must be hard for that blowhard to stay muzzled.

[socalrules]

It's still hearsay unless it is written in his hand, recorded in his voice/image, or someone still has an un-redacted police report. Confessing to his parents makes it their word against anyone else, and if they lie, they just all have to tow the party line. Which the Duggars have shown that they are very good at.

Maybe the letter writer is Josh, and it's more of a dear diary thing

The think is, hearsay is not applicable in most states when it comes to deposition. You can testify to whatever anyone tells you at deposition because deposition is really a fishing expedition. Nothing is considered irrelevant. So you can pretty much ask about any conversation a deponent has had with anyone, other than their counsel. The rules are different for deposition and actual trial when it comes to evidence. The flip side is that deposition testimony can be used to impeach at trial should someone testify on the stand to one thing and yet have testified differently at deposition.

Also, as to the statute of limitations issue, even if the limitations period has run, most courts require a party to bring a motion for summary judgement re the statute of limitations. You don't get kicked right away because the limitations period has run, you have to work for it. Plus, each cause of action has a different statute of limitations. In my state, it is a minimum of 75 days, and will likely be more as court calendars are tight these days, before the court even hears it. So you can still have a lot of discovery, written and oral, in that time. The information the Duggars are trying to avoid getting out would be out in the universe anyway. That is why I think the Duggars would settle a lawsuit prior to a complaint even being filed. If it is true about the other victim is thinking of suing, it would be smart of her attorney to send a letter to Josh, Jim Bob, etc, regarding their intention to sue and discuss settlement before anything is filed. It's easier to settle now and avoid a projected lawsuit with no guarantee of winning for either side.

I cannot see any of the Duggars doing well at deposition. No one will coddle them and they will be called on their BS. They won't be savvy enough to realize that they are digging a hole for themselves. Also, there will be a confidentiality agreement with any settlement. No doubt about it. I have never seen a case without one and I would never allow it on my cases, regardless of the type of allegations made in the complaint.

[JenniferJuniper]

I'm just not convinced that Anna ever knew all the details, and who knows, maybe she still doesn't.

Does anyone really believe they went so far as to tell the Kellers that ".....about a year later, he took 8 year old J-sister into the laundry room, alone, put her up on a machine and then pushed her dress up, her leggings down and then proceeded to....." "Oh, and then when 5 year old J-sister was on his lap being read a story, he stuck his fingers...."

No, I don't think they knew those kinds of details. Maybe they were told a sanitized version (mild touch, over clothes, sleeping girls, just a curious little boy, etc, etc) and maybe they were so eager to snag a "famous" husband with some money behind him for Anna, they opted not to find out any more details, but I don't believe Jim Bob/Josh would have ever told them the really bad stuff.

And I'd be willing to bet Anna knew even less.

[SassyPants]

Does anyone really believe they went so far as to tell the Kellers that ".....about a year later, he took 8 year old J-sister into the laundry room, alone, put her up on a machine and then pushed her dress up, her leggings down and then proceeded to....." "Oh, and then when 5 year old J-sister was on his lap being read a story, he stuck his fingers...."

No, I don't think they knew those kinds of details. Maybe they were told a sanitized version (mild touch, over clothes, sleeping girls, just a curious little boy, etc, etc) and maybe they were so eager to snag a "famous" husband with some money behind him for Anna, they opted not to find out any more details, but I don't believe Jim Bob/Josh would have ever told them the really bad stuff.

And I'd be willing to bet Anna knew even less.

From some of the comments on this board, YES, I think there are people here who believe she knew every detail. I disagree.

IMO, the Kellers and Anna received a more sanitized version than what we all heard during MK's interview.

[Cleopatra7]

From some of the comments on this board, YES, I think there are people here who believe she knew every detail. I disagree.

IMO, the Kellers and Anna received a more sanitized version than what we all heard during MK's interview.

Given how these people can't even say "underwear" in a normal voice, I don't see how Josh, JB, or Michelle could have been honest about what really happened to the Kellers. Most likely they described in content-free Jesus-talk about "being tempted," "lusting in his heart," "the devil took over," etc. which was then followed by forgiveness from Jesus, end of story. It seems that appearances are more important than reality to ATI anyway, and the Duggars appeared "godly," so that must have been the case.

While Anna's knowledge of Josh's actions will probably always be a mystery, given how truth averse ATI is in general, I think that the M-kids are definitely victims, since they were born in a bad situation that they had no control over. However, that doesn't mean that the legal system or society should be any more lenient to Josh just because he has kids. While most of us like to think that rapists and sex offenders are dirty, scary-looking men living under bridges or in old vans, most are "respectable" and many have wives and children. If one of these "respectable men" commits a crime, they should be punished just as much as the guy living under the bridge. Saying "what about the offender's children?" seems to be veering into the mindset of thinking that the worst aspect of rape is that it derails the man's life, without any regard for justice for the victim.

[December]

Even if Anna and her family knew all the grisly details, would it matter? After all, didn't Josh and the victims receive "counseling" and he confessed to the church? We've heard them all say that it's water under the bridge now, because of their religious beliefs. They'd be contradicting themselves to halt a courtship/marriage between Anna and Josh, because they'd be admitting the "counseling" and confession that happened wasn't adequate to address the issues!

I'm not saying this situation would be good, just that it'd be in line with what they said in things like the Megyn Kelly interview. Also, if you're sheltered your whole life and told that the Duggars' "fixes" for the situation were enough, wouldn't it be hard to see the dangers in marrying someone like Josh? And even if that courtship seemed like a bad choice, wouldn't it be even harder to extricate yourself from the situation, and your own family's encouragement to proceed with the relationship?

[SassyPants]

I cannot wrap by mind around the fact that the Duggars do not believe in private conversations before engagement, yet JB and M sat on molestation for an entire year, a year in which they had time to add another kid, before they sought pseudo-help.

More concerned with making sure pre-marriage lips and hearts were pure than with getting a 14 y old boy who was molesting young girls, most of them his sisters, help. More concerned with preventing private conversations and hand holding pre-engagement than protecting their young daughters from a repeat offender.

WTH is wrong with them? It just defies all logic.

Also, for all of JB's religious drivel, his go-to move is lying. Does he not realize that lying is a sin, dishonest and a judge of his character or lack there of?

[princessmahina]

I cannot wrap by mind around the fact that the Duggars do not believe in private conversations before engagement, yet JB and M sat on molestation for an entire year, a year in which they had time to add another kid, before they sought pseudo-help.

More concerned with making sure pre-marriage lips and hearts were pure than with getting a 14 y old boy who was molesting young girls, most of them his sisters, help. More concerned with preventing private conversations and hand holding pre-engagement than protecting their young daughters from a repeat offender.

WTH is wrong with them? It just defies all logic.

Also, for all of JB's religious drivel, his go-to move is lying. Does he not realize that lying is a sin, dishonest and a judge of his character or lack there of?

I think he believes he has a godly reason for lying, which justifies it. As a child, he was probably taught (as many kids are) that some lying is okay (such as telling someone the food they cooked was tasty when it was terrible and so on) and so lumps it all together.

Since the show is their ministry, he probably brushes off any guilty conscience he may have.