Josh Duggar Admits to Molestation Rumors - Part 4

[cockroaches]

There's this saying in legal world that "it's better for 10 guilty persons to escape than it is for one innocent to suffer."

Disagree here. I think girls are still getting victimized in both Josh and Jim Bob's home. So exposing this may save victims. Everyone is acting like b/c there's only one quite old police report that's the only time it happened. The ONLY reason Jim Bob went to police is b/c he was reported. I imagine this happening tons of times and not being reported.

More on my theory here. http://www.freejinger.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=87&t=26094&start=20#p947578

[Special friend]

As shitty as it is that this is probably the result of jb calling in favors, I DO think that the the people who released the report should be fired and held accountable. Not because of Josh, but because they failed to protect the identities of his sisters. By saying that four of the victims lived with their parents "jim bob and Michelle Duggar," they essentially told the world it was his sisters.

Knowing that this was going to be very high profile, you would think they would have covered all their bases. At the very least they should have gone to the attorney general's office for clarification and approval. The article is right, the girls are being re-victimized by this and that sucks.

IMO, it basically boils down to this question- if you could pick, would you rather josh be called out on all this and jb and Michelle publicly humiliated, knowing that it meant the world was going to know it was the sisters he abused- OR, nothing ever came out and the girls were spared from having everyone know they were sexually abused? I would protect the girls every single time.

There's this saying in legal world that "it's better for 10 guilty persons to escape than it is for one innocent to suffer."

I agree 100%, punkiepie. Yes, it must have been absolutely difficult to watch the family pretend to be some sort of wholesome role model on TV, knowing the truth about the abuse.

But for the sake of the girls, it should have been kept hidden. It is their story to tell. Whenever they feel comfortable and to whomever they feel comfortable. And in however much detail the choose.

The fact that the decision was taken away from them, and literally the whole world now knows about what happened to them must be horrible! Luckily, I was never abused. But if I had been, I think I would fear to ever leave the house again. I would forever have the feeling that people were looking at me, thinking "that´s the one who got molested by her brother". People I don´t even know!

Things like going to the supermarket, to a ball game, a family outing, finding a job, attending a college, would be incredibly hard - maybe even impossible. I would try to just hide inside the house for a loooong time.

And if I HAD to go out - for whatever reason - I would be super uncomfortable.

That is not even considering that for the Duggar girls, I am sure there would be members of the press there at every corner, snapping pictures and trying to get an interview. Their life will never be the same again.

No, outing Josh, JB and Michelle in no way justifies the harm done to these girls, IMO.

Which is why these laws exist.

[Honeysuckle]

Disagree here. I think girls are still getting victimized in both Josh and Jim Bob's home. So exposing this may save victims. Everyone is acting like b/c there's only one quite old police report that's the only time it happened. The ONLY reason Jim Bob went to police is b/c he was reported. I imagine this happening tons of times and not being reported.

More on my theory here. http://www.freejinger.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=87&t=26094&start=20#p947578

Exposing Josh as a molester may save victims. Allowing a report to be released in a way that clearly identified his other victims is reprehensible and does not save victims, and re-victimizes them.

[Special friend]

Exposing Josh as a molester may save victims. Allowing a report to be released in a way that clearly identified his other victims is reprehensible and does not save victims, and re-victimizes them.

Exactly! You explained it much better than I could. Thank you.

[punkiepie]

I still wonder, though, if they knew it was going to In Touch. In Touch claims to have gotten it through FOIA, but no one else could. And the reports were destroyed the same day it was printed. I still think this was an inside deal.

Oh, I agree with you! Well, in the sense that I think In Touch paid someone a hell of a lot of money at the police department to access his report via a FOIA request. I think the FOIA part was just to cover their asses, but there is no way they ever should have released that report especially with so many details left u redacted that it was possible to know the identities of the victims.

[calimojo]

Uh no. Bye, leghumper. There is no excuse for molesting little girls.

If Josh were theoretically to get arrested in the future (no idea why that might happen!), he would be instantly put in solitary confinement. Even rapists, gang members, and murderers don't tolerate messing with little girls. They don't think all sins are equal, and neither do I.

OK wow, I think I was seriously misunderstood. I am not making an excuse. Josh is a sex offender. He is sick and twisted and he should have to suffer consequences other than saying I am sorry and God forgave me. I am not making excuses.

My question was more technical. Not all sex offenders are pedophiles. And given that josh was technically a child at the time, can you clinically call someone a pedophile when as a child they molested another child? I guess what I am asking is did Josh choose his victims because he was specifically attracted to children, or did he choose his victims based on who was readily available to him and possibly, least likely to rat him out?

Please please don't think I am a leg humper. I am as far from that as possible, though I truly do feel such sadness and concern for all of the kids, Josh's kids included.

My empathy for josh only extends to the point where I don't feel he received any adequate treatment for his issues. And I feel that his upbringing put him at risk for developing into a sexual predator.

[VeryNikeSeamstress]

I'm not sure if anybody has shared this yet.

defamer.gawker.com/tell-your-duggar-tales-did-michelle-duggar-get-a-gay-c-1706502185

[ariel9]

Uh no. Bye, leghumper. There is no excuse for molesting little girls.

If Josh were theoretically to get arrested in the future (no idea why that might happen!), he would be instantly put in solitary confinement. Even rapists, gang members, and murderers don't tolerate messing with little girls. They don't think all sins are equal, and neither do I.

I'll take IRS issues for 1000 Alex.

[nana sew dear]

IIRC, the photo was them returning to DC from AR. No idea if they're still at their home in Maryland, though.

This. This is what makes me question if they were all aware that this train wreck was coming. I haven't read every single post but here are some things I find "hinky":

1. Jana does not want to be filmed. When she and her sisters went to help J&A, she avoided the camera.

2. Jim Bob suddenly allowed the older girls to court. We were all speculating that they were in competition with the Bates.

3. Additional media exposure. Suddenly the Duggars are everywhere.

4. Lots of gossip site speculation. We suddenly are seeing things on gossip sites and on an almost daily basis.

5. The no picture policy for everyone but TLC and People. I understand that there are contracts but they've never been more serious.

I know three's more but I guess I'm just saying there's been something brewing for awhile.

[eh02]

Clinical criteria for pedophilia, which may or may not differ from a more broad social concept of pedophilia:

"The diagnostic criteria for pedophilic disorder are intended to apply both to individuals who freely disclose this paraphilia and to individuals who deny any sexual attraction to prepubertal children (generally age 13 years or younger), despite substantial objective evidence to the contrary."[1] Like the DSM-IV-TR, the manual outlines specific criteria for use in the diagnosis of this disorder. These include the presence of sexually arousing fantasies, behaviors or urges that involve some kind of sexual activity with a prepubescent child (with the diagnostic criteria for the disorder extending the cut-off point for prepubescence to age 13) for six months or more, or that the subject has acted on these urges or suffers from distress as a result of having these feelings. The criteria also indicate that the subject should be 16 or older and that the child or children they fantasize about are at least five years younger than them, though ongoing sexual relationships between a 12–13 year old and a late adolescent are advised to be excluded. A diagnosis is further specified by the sex of the children the person is attracted to, if the impulses or acts are limited to incest, and if the attraction is "exclusive" or "nonexclusive".[1]

The ICD-10 defines pedophilia as "a sexual preference for children, boys or girls or both, usually of prepubertal or early pubertal age".[3] Like the DSM, this system's criteria requires that the person be at least 16 years of age or older before being diagnosed as a pedophile. The person must also have a persistent or predominant sexual preference for prepubescent children at least five years younger than them.[2]

(from wikipedia)

I guess the tricky thing there is the concept of whether someone is actually attracted to children. I guess it is possible that some people who molest children are not actually attracted to them since it can be a purely power-based action. But all things considered, it makes me really worry that Josh never got proper counseling. I really hope he never hurt anyone else.

[Toothfairy]

So they're trying to get rid of evidence. I hope TMZ or in touch finds more stuff before it's gone. JimChelle and Josh might've not been punished with Jail but their reputations are.

[Bearos]

Comments from the Gawker article are telling more Duggar stories:

http://defamer.gawker.com/tell-your-dug ... 1706502185

"About 4 years ago my family and I went to Colonial Williamsburg for vacation. While we were figuring out what we were gong to do, we saw a bus and 2 vans pull into the parking lot. It was the Duggars and their TLC film crew. While we were tooling around one of the shops, one of the little girls wandered away from her pack and was about 3 seconds from full kid meltdown. My wife took her by the hand, calmed her down and walked her back to an older sister. A small part of me feels like my wife should have walked her in a different direction.

I will use a stupid conservative line to rant at conservatives: IF YOU CAN’T TAKE CARE OF THE KIDS YOU HAVE, DON’T HAVE ANY MORE KIDS. Try fucking for fun, it is the best!"

And:

"Occasionally, Discovery brings in ‘talent’ to the first floor conference room at HQ for Q&A sessions, panel discussions and in general to let staff crawl out of their cubes for a few minutes to experience the exhilaration of being in the presence of a basic cable celebrity. (Sometimes, these are fun - Oprah, the Discovery cycling team before we started hating Lance, but mostly the events are just annoying...e.g. Jon&Kate/Honeybooboo). After the Duggars appearance, there were tables set up outside the room that no one was allowed to touch. On the tables were five giant, Costco-sized tubs of Vlasic Pickles. Apparently, the Duggar kids found them comforting and they were required to serve pickles after every event. So..yeah. Not super scandalous - but super weirdo! And..that’s my Duggar tale. You’re welcome. "

Plus:

"This is small peanuts compared to what we know now, but it was pretty common knowledge that Josh Duggar frequented strip clubs in Fayetteville when he was 18-19, before he married Anna but after they got they had done more than one Discovery special (I had many friends at U0fA at the time, which is where this knowledge comes from). My parents are from Ozarka and have had a few near-encounters with the Duggars, and I get the impression that they are sort of just everywhere in the Springfield/Rogers area nowadays. "

This isn't a Duggar story, but I had no idea:

"Last weekend the New York Times came out with detailed rankings of public company CEOs by total compensation. David Zaslav, the CEO of Discovery Networks, was ranked #1 at $156 mil per year. It pays more to churn out shit like this in America than it does than it does to run a bank or sell iPhones."

This is absolutely disgusting. So much money, so many shitty shows...

[apandaaries]

Finally caught up! The thread will have three more pages by the time I'm ready to post, I'm sure. :lol:

This whole discovery -- so much to process and so triggering for so many. ETA: I'm so sorry for those of us who bear these scars, and I'm glad that healing is possible, though tough. Amazing that we had the rumors here all the time. It's astounding.

I'm so concerned for those girls, especially the risk of self-harm and depression. So many things make so much more sense -- not because I'm viewing them as tainted victims forevermore (I am NOT, but I would love for them to get real counseling), but because I think some of their unhealed scars are still visible.

I'm also concerned about Josh's ongoing weight gain and what has appeared to be burgeoning depression. Is it related to his kids getting older? That's scary, but a possibility.

But maybe they've been blackmailed recently. Maybe they had a clue this was coming. A lot of this seems pre-planned. I think they knew this was going to break soon. Maybe someone told them the media was nosing around the PD. Maybe it was an internal leak.

Sadly, I also think TLC knew the whole time, too. Someone in AR has been yelling and screaming and posting about this for the last decade, and we've been ignoring/overlooking/awaiting facts -- which we now have. I know gossip travels fast, especially if it's dirty, but I also suspect that the number 5 is the low number.

Also, I bet that JB knew the state trooper and selected him for some 'good ol' boy' style justice -- the stern talking to & giving the problem to Jesus. Cuz that cures sexual deviants, as evidenced by the fact that the trooper is now serving decades behind bars.

Sadly, I think the lavishing of gifts on the girls is a sign of JB's ongoing guilt. I think all the boys have been raised under Josh's precedent: viewed as potential predators; separated from sisters at certain ages; forced into very specific gender roles.

What amazes me is how little JB and M have learned. They went with the ostrich defense: "I can't see it! It's not happening!" They clung to their religion and their f'ed up ideas of "modesty" to prevent untoward thoughts, when they knew the whole time that that was completely ineffective.

I have disliked JB and M for so long, but now I just hate them. HOW could they let that go on? HOW could they continually expose their daughters to that? HOW could they continue to blame women for misleading men? HOW could they perpetuate this f'ed up line of thought? I hope there is someone in their f'ed up religious circle to stand up to them and tell them how abhorrent and harmful their actions were. I hope all the kids get as far as possible from those two viciously idiotic fools.

[nomoxian]

I wouldn't be surprised if that were true. After all, gay people are pedophiles. :roll:

As much as I would hate for someone to get fired for being attracted to ADULTS who happen to be the same sex, another part of me really hopes "Jimmy" said and did what is alleged.

[eh02]

I have had the rumors of Josh going to strip clubs before. That one is still a little hard for me to believe...would he really be that stupid, with his family's "fame" in that area? I wonder if Josh even had his own bank account at that age?

[MalteseBaby]

I, for one hope the victims aren't all over the internet.

They were never allowed to fully come to terms with their abuse, and reading opinions about it all over the internet may be a horrible experience for them.

While Josh deserves every horrible consequence that comes his way, I do wish that it wasn't so obvious who the victims are and that the news had come out in a way that preserved their anonymity.

But part of what makes this crime horrible is that his victims were his own sisters.

Basically, I'm not sure what to think. Is it better for the girls to be sheltered at TTH but potentially with their abuser and the people who covered it up? Or is it better for them to be exposed to the internet shit storm?

I just wanted to clarify my position in my post that we do not know what any Duggar other than James R. and Joshua are probably doing.

I did not mean it as a complaint or statement that they should be on the Internet, on the news, making any statements, etc.

I value THEIR privacy almost as much as I value mine, because these young ladies have been hurt and victimized enough, and I know how cruel the Internet is about just about everything possible under the sun.

( yes, I do realize the irony that this is a Duggar snark site on the Internet, LOL- but we are NOT snarking on hurt young women).

Someone was saying what they think the girls are doing right now and I was just putting my 2 cents' worth of opinion in that we can't know.

I'd like to see the oldest 5 girls truly have a fun and private holiday weekend without any stress. I hope this is possible. Hubby and I are on our way to our island beach house for the long weekend, and I've wished a hundred times that I could teleport the girls there. It's so peaceful, so lovely and private. And each girl ( including the 2 couples) would have their very own bedroom and en suite bathroom.

I hope the weekend is peaceful for all, and as gentle to the Duggar girls as is humanly possible, and definitely away from the Internet and all the pathetic mean trolls who would tear them down if they could.

Bye for now... I leave with a heavy heart.

As others have said, I greatly fear self- harm may occur to at least one of the involved Duggars.

Will try to check in when we are on the island.

[lascuba]

I posted about it in the Josh thread. If the story is true, she didn't actually get him fired. The producers just told her he was fired to placate her, but the crew member was given a bonus and transferred to another, better show.

[DIRTYPILLOWS]

Hello Everyone, first time posting. Last night I went to youtube to watch some of the older episodes and I came across the episode in which The Perv asks Anna to marry him. I was astounded by TH (Talking Head?) parts of the episode. Jim Blob actually said that "Josh was sensitive to the needs of others" Are you out of your f'n mind. Honestly, I thought about punching my laptop. Then some of his victims had to tell about Perv and his ''qualities''. So, Perv starts talking and he has such a ''what do I have to do to get you in this car'' way of speaking. Just watch for that, he is selling the viewers on himself. Anyway, he actually goes on how he was so glad he waited to kiss because he was....(wait for it)....(not ready yet)......PURE! Yep, he actually said he was pure. I couldn't watch anymore but I do remember when he and his victims all drove from AR to FL.... Jim Bob and Michelle have a lot of explaining to do as to why they would allow the person who molested their girls to drive them 18 hours one way alone. Also, Josh and Anna have taken care of the other children while Dumbnuts and Pukeshell have left. They knew of what he did to his own family and yet time after time those ''parents'' gave him the opportunity to do it again. Some of those babies would not even be able to say if anything happened and I am under the impression that a child molester cannot be changed. I think they are the scum of the earth and something is missing in their heads to be able to do what Perv did and live with his victims and see them on a daily basis.

I hope CPS is watching them closely not only because they failed to protect their children, but that they allowed the perpetrator back in the home to live and care for younger children. I also feel like the dry humping while playing miniature golf should be examined. Not only is it inappropriate for television and in front of children but what is not seen may be even more shocking and that is what I worry about, the kids still left to be raised by these goblins.

[sense and nonsense]

OK wow, I think I was seriously misunderstood. I am not making an excuse. Josh is a sex offender. He is sick and twisted and he should have to suffer consequences other than saying I am sorry and God forgave me. I am not making excuses.

My question was more technical. Not all sex offenders are pedophiles. And given that josh was technically a child at the time, can you clinically call someone a pedophile when as a child they molested another child? I guess what I am asking is did Josh choose his victims because he was specifically attracted to children, or did he choose his victims based on who was readily available to him and possibly, least likely to rat him out?

Please please don't think I am a leg humper. I am as far from that as possible, though I truly do feel such sadness and concern for all of the kids, Josh's kids included.

My empathy for josh only extends to the point where I don't feel he received any adequate treatment for his issues. And I feel that his upbringing put him at risk for developing into a sexual predator.

By definition, a paedophile is someone who is sexually attracted to children, in most cases prepubescent children. It is also generally an equal attraction to both boys and girls. This attraction could start at any age, 15 or 20, technically it is still paedophilia.

A child sexual abuser is not always a paedophile. Someone up thread put this together more coherently, but I will try.

This could happen for various reasons, including the feeling of power and control over his victims, being a victim of abuse himself, or a mental developmental deficit.

Till Josh undergoes therapy, it is unclear what caused him to do this, and the general public will probably never know, and shouldn't know what goes on in his (hypothetical) future therapy sessions.

But, as many posters have pointed out, his behaviour cannot be cured by praying or seeking redemption. No matter how much self control he tries to excise, he is very likely to give in, as is clear from the fact that the abuse continued over a long period of time. Unless the root of the problem is addressed, nobody can say for sure that he is a changed man.

[aggieluv17]

I didn't notice that but I did notice something else I thought strange , one of the girls said she was touched on her "pee pee holder" I've never heard a child use that term and I've worked with a lot of children. Maybe it's a southern term?

It's not a southern thing. It's just a kid thing. They don't know the proper terms and I highly doubt their parents are educating them. It's not surprising. I figured it was just one of the younger ones, but I'd expect something like that from any small child. That's what makes me the most sad, because that means that whoever was being interviewed was very, very young.

[Beagle]

Long-time lurker here.

A lot of people have been skeptical that the redacted report could have been obtained through an Arkansas FOIA request. I don't think the police report was exempted, especially because there were no actual charges where other laws might come into play and protect from disclosure.

Here's the Arkansas FOIA law:

http://www.foiarkansas.com/1010/1010foia.html

The only exception that might apply is b(6) "undisclosed investigations." However, the AR Attorney General clarified that this exception only applies to ongoing investigations.

The full question/answer about juvenile investigations is here:

http://ag.arkansas.gov/opinions/docs/98-151.html

It's possible that I may be totally missing something since the explanation is from 1998. The Attorney General did note that juveniles who were not arrested had less protection than those who were arrested under the FOIA, but it would stay that way unless the law was changed. Please feel free to correct me if the interpretation of b(6) has changed.

[Toothfairy]

OK wow, I think I was seriously misunderstood. I am not making an excuse. Josh is a sex offender. He is sick and twisted and he should have to suffer consequences other than saying I am sorry and God forgave me. I am not making excuses.

My question was more technical. Not all sex offenders are pedophiles. And given that josh was technically a child at the time, can you clinically call someone a pedophile when as a child they molested another child? I guess what I am asking is did Josh choose his victims because he was specifically attracted to children, or did he choose his victims based on who was readily available to him and possibly, least likely to rat him out?

Please please don't think I am a leg humper. I am as far from that as possible, though I truly do feel such sadness and concern for all of the kids, Josh's kids included.

My empathy for josh only extends to the point where I don't feel he received any adequate treatment for his issues. And I feel that his upbringing put him at risk for developing into a sexual predator.

yes. Children molest children. The thing is if caught early and with treatment it can be treated. There are programs available to children who molest. If a 14yo molest a 5yo then that is considered pedophilla from what I read. His upbringing where sexuality is suppress did play a role imo. How can you expect people not to masturbate or not talk to them about sexual feelings. But even with people who grew up in homes where sex wasn't talked about didn't molest. I think Josh is like his father. He things Noone can touch him and thinks he superior. In a home where women and girls are blamed for everything he didn't have to feel bad about doing it. Because in his mind it's not his fault, girls are suppose to do whatever headship says. Look at his mother saying anyone can make him lunch but only you women can fulfilled that need.

[stabbycat]

I hope we see more stories from the crew, but chances are they are on a non-disclosure agreement. There is one from someone who claimed to work for Discovery in the comments. According to them, the Duggars find pickles very comforting so they had 5 large jars reserved just for them at an event.

[Cleopatra7]

Exactly! You explained it much better than I could. Thank you.

The victims in this will never be able to claim this story as their own, as long as they stay in Gothardism and under their parents' roof (this refers to the Duggar victims). As long as they accept the status quo, they will go through life thinking they tempted their fine, upstanding, Christian brother with their frumpers and bloomers, rather than the truth that they were failed by idiot parents who were more concerned about coddling their pervert brother than protecting their daughters.

Before all this broke, many of us were saying that the Duggars' worldly success was probably preventing many of the kids from questioning things, since it would seem like god is rewarding them for their faithfulness. Now that the family has fallen from grace, and fallen hard, maybe the Duggar kids will finally start to question what they've been told.

ETA This situation also should have been exposed because of the political agenda that the Duggars are trying to push. Remember, Michelle recorded a robo-call about rapists dressing as women to get access to women's bathrooms and locker rooms. I'm pretty sure Josh has said that LGBT people are child molesters. When the Duggars spread these kinds of lies, innocent people are hurt. The Duggars have no business telling anyone else how to raise a family or who should or should not get married, when they wouldn't even protect their own daughters from their son's predatory behavior.

[mebeforee]

I haven't been able to read through all of the previous posts (this thread is moving so quickly that just going to bed put me hopelessly behind) so I don't know if this has been talked about yet. But I was thinking about how the Duggar homechurch was apparently shut down earlier this year, just recently, wasn't it? I find myself wondering whether there was some falling out among the church members that spurred the closing of the church. Maybe someone in the church found out about this incident and revealed it out of concern for the girls, or (and sadly I think this is more likely) there was a problem over some unrelated thing and they decided to get 'revenge' by releasing the information.

Also, just as far as that description of Michelle getting a gay crew member fired goes... IDK if I buy the way the OP said it played out. I can absolutely, without question, see Michelle getting someone removed from her house and the program because they were gay, or even if she just suspected they may be. What I find really hard to believe is that the gay crew member would react to the situation in the way described. "Jimmy" may be gay, but that's his job right there. I can't imagine someone deliberately provoking a person that can prevent them from getting their paycheck unless they were being abused already, especially since the OP was clear that they were basically forbidden from rocking the boat from the beginning. I don't think that any gay person should have to hide their orientation, but I just find it a little unbelievable that multiple people on the crew would witness/spur this confrontation into happening or that they would find it funny to watch someone lose their job over sexual orientation - because there's no way they wouldn't have known that identifying another crew member as gay to Michelle Duggar would end badly. The person getting removed from 19KAC wouldn't mean necessarily that they would be fired from the TLC payroll entirely, but it does seem like several of them were behaving in a very unprofessional manner that I can't imagine would be considered normal or acceptable for a company who, in order to meet their bottom line, needs to prevent their controversial subjects from appearing intolerant or bigoted to the audience.