Josh Duggar Admits to Molestation Rumors- Part 3

[twinmama]

Are you seriously telling me that a normal person would have molested a four year old to take out sexual frustration over plain old masturbation?

Yeah here's the thing, to molest someone you need to be alone with them or at least assume your parents aren't watching. If he was alone or unwatched, a normal person would just masturbate then. If he had touched someone his own age and stopped once someone told him it was wrong or once the girl said no, then maybe it would have been sexual frustration. But a 4 year old.

[nana sew dear]

I'm wondering if the tone of the show and the large presence of the family in the media over the last two years has something to do with prior knowledge that this crime was going to be made public. I guess it could have happened at any time but I don't think that the earlier "sin in the camp" info we all had was ever thought to be anything but a rumor. That was the FJ state of mind as recently as last weekend and my thinking was right there with you. Maybe the marriages and all the social media was a way to save their brand and their cash cow.

I would be curious to see the Q&A show as the previews were unlike the previous B&S shows from past seasons.

[HarleyQuinn]

Yeah here's the thing, to molest someone you need to be alone with them or at least assume your parents aren't watching. If he was alone or unwatched, a normal person would just masturbate then. If he had touched someone his own age and stopped once someone told him it was wrong or once the girl said no, then maybe it would have been sexual frustration. But a 4 year old.

The bolded is all that needs to be said, really. He is a predator. He touched his four year old sister. He picked his probably 7-8 year old sister up, sat her on a washing machine and molested her. That's not sexual frustration.

JB and Michelle do deserve a lot of blame, but Josh still deserves more. As far as we know, none of the other brothers did shit like this. Only him.

ETA: I hope for the love of God the Duggars don't try to turn this scandal into a special and try to justify it on air.

[isarhenne]

JB really does show psychopathic behavior!

Several of his daughters molested: Don't help the victims and defend the agressor => check

Go on with your life as if nothing has happened, let the molester narrate the first episodes of the show => check

Lying to the public about the family's past and about Josh owning the car lot => check

showing absolutely no remorse except fake tears when it all blows up => check

keeping absolut control of finances and keeping information from the victims in the house (no internet or tv for non-courting girls) => check

let the molester come and go as he pleases => check

[JenniferJuniper]

The girl on the washing machine hits me harder than anything else. Poor little thing must have been terrified, trapped in the laundry room with that creep.

[latraviata]

Excuse me but what hysteria am I creating? The OP said he preyed on his sisters because he didn't learn to masturbate. I said people who are sexually frustrated are different than sexual predators. There is NOTHING hysterical about what I said. There is something wrong with your arguments though. Especially your latest one that doesn't even make sense.

Hysteria, because your reactions are over the top!

English isn't my first language, but what I was trying to explain is.... nobody is the same, 19 children and 19 different responses to the same situation. There, that wasn't very difficult was it? I stop here with the discussion and I wish you much fun with this crisis because, I think you secretly enjoy it!!!

[Alachantal]

I'm finding this so challenging to read from a survivor stand point but I just can't not read it.

I would not be surprised if the married girls had something to do with it coming to light. Not intentionally. But I know from my own personal experience, years after I was raped (over a period of time from a young age until 11 - my mum did all she could including taking things to Supreme Court to get us out of that situation) when I was having my own sexual encounters with boyfriends things like memories and emotions that I had tried to suppress kept coming up which made trying to have normal sexual relations extremely difficult. I still find it difficult and its been about 14 years since I no longer had to deal with my abuser. Sex and sexual things did, and still do, bring up painful emotions even though I went through years of both group and individual counselling, so I would be shocked at the girls being perfectly okay with things with no counselling.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that perhaps the married girls, once they started having normal relations with their husbands, had these past memories come up and really bother/upset them? Perhaps they mentioned something to someone like their husbands, or perhaps even just started talking about it again with their sisters? Maybe someone they spoke to or who overheard them let it leak. Or perhaps bringing it up again between the sisters made them (or Joy) want to get the records destroyed and either now was the best time (coincidently) or they knew it would leak and had to act now.

I'm sorry to get personal, I'm having a hard time trying to write what I mean and to put it in a way that isn't too upsetting as I find this topic hard to deal with and my thoughts are really jumbled right now.

[ncb]

This says a lot

https://twitter.com/TheMamaFesto/status ... 9224263680

[linnea27]

I am not a mental health professional, and I obviously don't know Josh, but I am not 100% sure I would agree that Josh is a true pedophile. I am a social worker and for a court case once I was given some research about three types of people who offend against children. (Fair warning: I don't remember all the details and I don't even recall the researchers, and for all I know this research may have been discredited since I read it anyway. But since I keep going through what I remember from this research I will share it anyway. Tear it apart if you must ;) )

Three (main?) types of people who offend against children:

1) people with a cognitive or developmental disability of some kind that causes them to either identify on an emotional level with children much younger than their own chronological age, and/or start to reach out to younger children who seem 'safer' after years of feeling rejected by their same-age peers. These people aren't necessarily sexually attracted to pre-pubescent children but the emotional connection they feel to people closer to their developmental level can cause the sexually intrusive behaviour. Intruders will tend to offend against children who match their own orientation (ie: straight men will offend against girls). If I remember right this was the most common type of offender (although I in no way want to imply that people with disabilities are always child molesters) and the most likely to respond positively to treatment.

2) the narcissist, who also isn't necessarily sexually attracted to children, but who believes that they deserve what they want when they want it and won't feel hindered by laws, societal pressures, or empathy for the victim. These are the people who get turned down for sex by their partner and decide to wander down the hall to the child's bedroom, knowing that they are more likely to overpower the child and ensure their silence. These people are also likely to sexually assault peers, as in date rapes and sexually abusive relationships.

3) the true pedophile, who is usually only sexually attracted to children, and can often be indiscriminant towards gender. While the above two types tend to target girls more than boys, the true pedophile is often attracted to pre-pubescent children as a whole, and may even skew towards boys. These people go to great lengths to hide their actions, but will often become the beloved soccer coach, teacher, family friend, etc, in order to gain a parent's trust and ensure ready access to children to groom over time. Least likely to be rehabilitated.

It's clear that Josh doesn't fit into the first category. Honestly, I believe Josh is the second type. His 'apology' refers only to himself and his life, he has been seen to make odd comments to the girls about them being "tattletales", he didn't target the boys (as far as we know), he hasn't (as far as I know) gone out of his way to build relationships in other children in order to gain access to them (as a soccer coach, youth pastor, whatever), he was raised in a culture that would have reinforced his belief that females are to be sexually available to his "god-given desire" and are to blame for "defrauding" him by being attractive, and he just generally has that smug attitude that he is the golden child who can do no wrong and is doing god's work. Also, part of the definition of pedophilia is that the offender is over 16, the victims are pre-pubescent, and at least five years younger than him. Josh doesn't meet all of this criteria (he was younger than 16), and didn't meet them in all cases (the older girls were less than 5 years younger than him, even if Jana was spared). This tells me he was more opportunistic than pedophilic and may have preferred to assault a same age peer if one was available (and he may have. Do we know how old the 5th victim was?).

If I am right, the (very tarnished) silver lining in this, if there is one, is that he is less likely to offend against his own children than if he was a true pedophile, especially with a wife who has been groomed to be sexually available to him (and by saying that I am in NO WAY suggesting that it is Anna's fault for not submitting if he does assault his children, or that any woman is responsible for being sexually available in order to prevent a man from assaulting children. Clearly these offenders are very sick people and the fault lies with them alone). But, since it is clear he won't be charged for these assaults and I don't think Anna will leave him, and the information as presented isn't enough for the children to be removed, this is the last bit of hope I can hold on to regarding Mac and the rest of his poor kids.

[sense and nonsense]

Hysteria, because your reactions are over the top!

English isn't my first language, but what I was trying to explain is.... nobody is the same, 19 children and 19 different responses to the same situation. There, that wasn't very difficult was it? I stop here with the discussion and I wish you much fun with this crisis because, I think you secretly enjoy it!!!

I think what you were trying to say came out the wrong way.

I recall your earlier post where you said that Josh wasn't akin to a sexual predator because of his upbringing which fostered sexual frustration, and led to this incident.

That is pretty much the definition of apologising for abuse. Josh is a sexual predator. He forced a 4/7/8 year old on his lap to read a story and touched her private parts. He fondled his sister's breasts under the cover of trying to take her blanket off. He doesn't seem to show a shred of guilt over this except when he had to issue a public statement.

Another fact to note is that many people are brought up in this environment who do not resort to molesting 4 year olds.

To summarise, do I think Josh's upbringing and home environment enabled the abuse? Yes, 100%.

Do I think that doesn't make him 'real' molester? Not at all. His actions were as criminal as they should be for anyone, irrespective of their upbringing.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

Hysteria, because your reactions are over the top!

English isn't my first language, but what I was trying to explain is.... nobody is the same, 19 children and 19 different responses to the same situation. There, that wasn't very difficult was it? I stop here with the discussion and I wish you much fun with this crisis because, I think you secretly enjoy it!!!

In what way are my statements over the top? And why are you singling me out? Almost every other person on this board has said the same thing.

[wild little fox]

Honestly, I don't think the other boys were involved in abusing their sisters. Especially when you look at their relationships with their sisters. Josh and his sisters don't have a relationship. Every other boy has a sister that has a strong relationship with them (whether it's a strong protective bond on his part of a strong maternal bond on her part). But no one (male or female) seems to WANT to be around Josh.

I also think there's a big difference between holding your oldest sibling in high esteem in a normal situation and holding him in one in an abusive situation. As I stated earlier, his predatory behaviors lead me to believe that Josh has a strong abusive nature. I believe that, even if he didn't touch his brother sexually, his brothers were victims of Josh's abuse. He could have physically or emotionally abused them.

I imagine that, in that household, alliances were formed as a way of protecting each other since it's clear that the parents didn't.

And that whole thing just got me thinking: Anna and her kids probably have not been spared his abuse. I'm not saying that he sexually abuses his children (I hope beyond hope that he doesn't), but I wouldn't be surprised if blanket training (which I'm certain they do based on "instant obedience) was his idea. And I am wondering if maybe he doesn't withhold sex from Anna out of control and berate her for not producing more kids at the same time. I used to think it was weird that Anna was seemingly more obsessed with babies than Michelle, and that she said something along the lines of having to ask Josh about the possibility of another even thought they don't use birth control; but, if he has an abusive personality, both of those make sense.

I cannot stand to watch the show (I've honestly tried) so I rely on what I read here.

I'm just throwing this out there but non interest in sex with someone in a relationship can be an indication of pedophilia.

[Jinderella]

yesterday a poster said Josh was a victim, but not an innocent victim. I think that was very well said. We don't know anything about what went on with Josh in this period. Was he frustrated, was he molested, was he severely physically abused (probably). In now way is any of that going to be an excuse!

But it could result in the conclusion that this would not have happened had he been raised in a different family.

Josh was punished, he was sent from home or three months and most likely beaten. He had to tell the elders from church en was shamed in front of some other people, like the Kellers. Now he lost his job. I'm not saying he's punished enough, but his actions had consequences for him. I don't feel very sorry, because it was is choice to work for a hate-group and judge other people, but is live will be very much affected.

JB and Michelle are just as guilty. They didn't protect their daughters, they didn't offer help to any of their children, they made every fault they could possibly make, just to save their own interests. But they will hardly face any consequence. TLC even considers continuing the show without Josh, but with them. Still parading them as loving parents. That's sick. And that's way people here want them to be held accountable too.

Josh is very guilty. My son is 13, so I know his behavior was extremely far from normal or a boy his age. But from the first time a victim came to JB and told him, JB and Michelle could have stopped him. Instead, they enabled him. They are quilty too!

[Bearos]

Another TMZ update:

http://www.tmz.com/2015/05/23/josh-dugg ... -counting/

"Josh Duggar has pulled the plug on a conference he was scheduled to attend in the most ironic of places ... Sandusky, Ohio.

Josh was supposed to speak at a home schooling convention next week, but in the wake of his public sexual molestation admission, we've learned he's cancelled the appearance.

We're told Josh told the organizers he would be too much of a distraction and didn't want the focus of the conference blurred.

We're also told convention organizers are commending Josh and his parents, saying they've handled the matter well and it all reflects back on Christ."

I wonder if the rest of them were supposed to go too - and if they still are. Not a word from the rest of the family... in terms of cancellations or whatnot.

(And do they really have to put Christ/Jesus/God in every single sentence?)

[Snarkle Motion]

I want someone to file a FOIA request for the pedophile cop that failed to file a police report on Josh. He was sent away for 56 YEARS. That is longer than many people serve for murder. Any involvement w child porn is a terrible crime. But I wonder whether this was looking at a few pics online, or perhaps actually creating/distributing material. I think the previous comment re: the Duggars media studio is a bit of a stretch.... but it still makes me wonder. I never did really understand what Josh was working on in there. Unless the entire fundie world is a sexual abusive cesspool (and maybe it is?) it seems like it can't be coincidental that so many abusers (Josh, cop, Gothard) are entwined only by pure conincidence.

Agreed. Thank you for voicing it more clearly than me. It feels weird that it was a coincidence and strange from someone to be sent away for such a long time if it was just possession of child pornography.

[theinvisiblegirl]

Woah! I went to bed when this still had 31 pages. I come back and we're already up to 42.

Has there been discussion about the TMZ report that the show could be going on, just without Josh, and that Josh was supposed to speak at a homeschooling conference next week in Sandusky, Ohio but pulled out? (The organizers of the conference stand behind Josh, ofc.)

[Ofglen]

Excuse me but what hysteria am I creating? The OP said he preyed on his sisters because he didn't learn to masturbate. I said people who are sexually frustrated are different than sexual predators. There is NOTHING hysterical about what I said. There is something wrong with your arguments though. Especially your latest one that doesn't even make sense.

latraviata here is not a psychiatrist, and if they are, they're the worst one i've ever met. They're just saying that to sound credible. If they can prove it, by all means, I'm open. But... We will see... :shifty-kitty:

Tons of young teenagers entering puberty don't have access to quality sex education/know what's going on with their bodies. It's not just quiverfull that has this problem, though quiverfull does exacerbate it. An important difference between Josh and those other kids was that Josh sought out younger girls in vulnerable situations when he KNEW it was wrong, and he did this CONTINUOUSLY. He preyed on them. He felt entitled to them. A normal person experiencing sexual frustration, no matter how strong it is or how little they understand about what's going on with their own body, understands that they cannot do what Josh did. It was not about sex. It was about power.

[Seasoner_Of_Life]

Still new here and I can't figure out how to post a new topic-hope it is ok if this goes here.

What about Mandated Reporting Laws!

I just keep thinking about the mandated reporter laws. Now that John-David is a "police officer", is he not a mandated reporter? It says in one of the statements that Josh confessed to his family-meaning JD probably knew. Wouldn't that knowledge fall under being a mandated reporter or because it was so far in the past does it no longer fall into that category?

Second, does anyone know if Arkansas requires their clergy to be mandated reporters? If that is the case, could these "elders" that Josh confessed to and failed to report to law enforcement what they knew be held accountable after all of these years as well?

Or does all of this mean nothing because he "confessed" to a pedophile state trooper that did nothing with it and it never officially came to light until it was too late (2006 report)?

[nana sew dear]

There should be a way to seize Josh's home and work computers. If they found kiddie porn, well, that adds a dimension. Everyone here knows that Josh is VERY active on social media. I guess that the law would have to have an accusation by someone that Josh has inappropriate files on his PC before they could get a warrant. Anyone know?

I am really concerned about what Josh might be hiding.

[singsingsing]

Others keep saying it, but I just want to agree: can we please stop picking apart and interpreting every look, expression, action and decision these young women made over the past 10 years as being related to sexual assault? We have absolutely no idea what they're thinking or feeling. This is new information to us, but not to them. Please don't forget that they've been victimized in other ways as well, from beatings to blanket training to their rigid and stifling cult religion. They've also had good experiences with friends, courtships, travel, siblings, hobbies, etc. Their lives are not entirely consumed by what Josh did to them.

We have no idea how they each individually reacted to the abuse. One of them might have been deeply traumatized and still dealing with the emotional fall-out, whereas another really might have felt like it was no big deal and now feel that it hasn't affected her life much at all. We don't know. I feel like it's really creepy to start speculating that one of them's not smiling, or wearing a white dress, or wanting to be alone, because they were sexually abused.

I also think a lot of people here might be very disappointed when the girls follow Guinn Seawald's suit, if they say anything at all.

[weezie]

Catching up on posts, so I'm sorry if this has already been mentioned but have you noticed that the Josh apologists often refer to him as Joshua? As if using the full, biblical name sanitizes him and his actions? It makes my skin crawl.

Every one of those children is a victim of Josh, Jim Bob and Michelle. the parents turn a legitimate crime into a mistake. The girls endure the unimaginable breach of trust twice- their parents and their brother- and are told to forgive. The rest of the children find out in their own way about the transgressions and are forced to make it jive with a lifetime of cultish brainwashing. I hope the youngest have no clue of what really happened. That is just the beauty of this, because that's a time bomb waiting to go off, isn't it?

Another thing I have been pondering is how they always lump Jordyn,Josie, and Mac in together. It is a weird sisterhood-aunt thing going on there With no clear boundaries- at least as presented to us. What happens when these girls become aware of this mess. How does that shake out? Or will they all hold hands and pray it all away? in 5 or 10 years, this will be revisited for these girls. I hope they are given the professional, intensive help they will need to process all of this.

[madpsych78]

The bolded is all that needs to be said, really. He is a predator. He touched his four year old sister. He picked his probably 7-8 year old sister up, sat her on a washing machine and molested her. That's not sexual frustration.

JB and Michelle do deserve a lot of blame, but Josh still deserves more. As far as we know, none of the other brothers did shit like this. Only him.

ETA: I hope for the love of God the Duggars don't try to turn this scandal into a special and try to justify it on air.

Plus the fact that if it is true that Jana was spared, Josh DID NOT go after a twelve-year-old nearing puberty.

[singsingsing]

Still new here and I can't figure out how to post a new topic-hope it is ok if this goes here.

What about Mandated Reporting Laws!

I just keep thinking about the mandated reporter laws. Now that John-David is a "police officer", is he not a mandated reporter? It says in one of the statements that Josh confessed to his family-meaning JD probably knew. Wouldn't that knowledge fall under being a mandated reporter or because it was so far in the past does it no longer fall into that category?

Second, does anyone know if Arkansas requires their clergy to be mandated reporters? If that is the case, could these "elders" that Josh confessed to and failed to report to law enforcement what they knew be held accountable after all of these years as well?

Or does all of this mean nothing because he "confessed" to a pedophile state trooper that did nothing with it and it never officially came to light until it was too late (2006 report)?

When Josh confessed to his family, John-David was about 12. He was not a "police officer" in any sense when he was 12, unless it was in his own imagination. I don't know the answer to your second question, but fundamentalist Christian clergy has a long history of covering up abuse.

[Idolatry]

yesterday a poster said Josh was a victim, but not an innocent victim. I think that was very well said. We don't know anything about what went on with Josh in this period. Was he frustrated, was he molested, was he severely physically abused (probably). In now way is any of that going to be an excuse!

But it could result in the conclusion that this would not have happened had he been raised in a different family.

Josh was punished, he was sent from home or three months and most likely beaten. He had to tell the elders from church en was shamed in front of some other people, like the Kellers. Now he lost his job. I'm not saying he's punished enough, but his actions had consequences for him. I don't feel very sorry, because it was is choice to work for a hate-group and judge other people, but is live will be very much affected.

JB and Michelle are just as guilty. They didn't protect their daughters, they didn't offer help to any of their children, they made every fault they could possibly make, just to save their own interests. But they will hardly face any consequence. TLC even considers continuing the show without Josh, but with them. Still parading them as loving parents. That's sick. And that's way people here want them to be held accountable too.

Josh is very guilty. My son is 13, so I know his behavior was extremely far from normal or a boy his age. But from the first time a victim came to JB and told him, JB and Michelle could have stopped him. Instead, they enabled him. They are quilty too!

Every day Josh is not in prison, he should be kissing the ground and thanking his piece of shit parents for covering for his FELONIES. Even in prison, molesting your sisters is beyond the pale.

[Seasoner_Of_Life]

When Josh confessed to his family, John-David was about 12. He was not a "police officer" in any sense when he was 12, unless it was in his own imagination. I don't know the answer to your second question, but fundamentalist Christian clergy has a long history of covering up abuse.

I obviously know he wasn't a police officer when it happened, but once he became one, does knowing about past abuse not apply to mandated reporting laws?