Josh Duggar alleged sexual abuse - new developments

[Snarkle Motion]

I've been lurking here for about 6 months and I've read extensively about the duggars in that time. Background about me: I work with trauma victims in my day job and have long suspected the duggar girls were victims of sexual abuse based on things Jim Bob has said and Gothard's history. My other unrelated hobby/pastime is researching political scandals, cover-ups, and conspiracies.

So I came here long after the Razing Ruth scandal but for a long time it has pinged my radar - it looks a lot like an orchestrated disinformation campaign. I told myself I'd let my conspiracy theory hobby bleed into my other "fandoms" but I couldn't shake myself of this and almost wrote a post about it a few days ago. I wish I had since it would probably carry even more weight now. But essentially it has the components of someone like a fixer (ala Olivia Pope from Scandal) trying to get ahead of a political or PR crisis. Got troublesome rumors that need to be swept under the rug? Sometimes the only way to hide rumors is to openly have someone present this information and then discredit the person. Then whenever the information is discussed again it is dismissed as "that crazy person started that rumor" and people move on.

I don't know what this tactic is called but its essentially a version of two truths and a lie. Tell some things that are exactly the facts and something that's an outrageous lie and everyone dismisses all three things as outrageous lies.

My thoughts aren't very organized right now since I'm so horrified (even if not surprised) but I guess I'm curious where to get more info about Razing Ruth and how she was discredited. Where exactly is she now? Its possible that she knew inside info or stumbled upon it and incorporated it or that it was entirely coincidence but it shocks me how accurate she was about her allegations. I'm also curious if FreeJinger archives all old threads and how best to search these? :doh:

[Jinderella]

The In Touch article stated a 61-year-old woman emailed Oprah's staff re the molestation in 2006. That makes me wonder if it was Jim Bob's mother Mary who blew the whistle. Does anyone know how old she would have been in 2006?

And if Oprah knew, wouldn't they have told something to TLC? The reason for not going to do the interview? Could TLC have not known?

[mpheels]

I can't see 19 Kids and Counting continuing as is... There's no way to carry on the happy, wholesome image with this information officially out in the mainstream conversation. What I can see is one (or some) of the older kids seizing this opportunity and TLC airing a special or mini series similar to Breaking Amish. I don't know if any of the kidults would be interested, but TLC certainly would. I can also see TLC giving Josh and Anna their own special/mini series to discuss his struggles and attempts at redemption, and how this impacts their family. TLC doesn't care about wholesome. They care about money - if they think there is an audience, there will be a show.* TLC is basically Freak Show TV.

*I think there are some key differences between this situation and Honey Boo Boo. With HBB, it was a case of an adult who has been convicted of abusing a child, and June was bringing the abuser back in to the home of at least one of his victims. With the Duggars, it is a case of a 13 year old abusing his younger siblings, and the abuser now lives several states away from his victims. Plus, the actual abusive acts in the HBB situation were more egregious than what Josh did (as hard as it is to "rank" acts of sexual abuse, rape is more egregious than inappropriate touching).

[twinmama]

Less than an hour ago, Jill posted a photo on Instagram with Jessa They are all smiles. I feel that speaks volumes about how they will be dealing with this hitting the media.

There are really no upsides to any of this obviously, but I am glad the girls have each other. None of them is alone and they were each victims and survivors.

[Rainytown]

Its only a cash cow if advertisers stay put. I dont know that they will... The Duggars fucked with the LGBTQ community, now they've covered up not just a felony, but a sexual assault against children. Not exactly the "wholesome" image keebler wants to associate with.

Molestation/sexual assault is the third rail for advertisers. They won't get anywhere near it. There is no recovery from something like this. TLC has little choice but to cancel the show at this point; the police report is online for all to read.

I think a variety of things had to happen for this to finally come out, especially with the comments from the future prosecutor who stated the report would have had to be handed to an InTouch reporter since it was not available through sunshine laws or a FOIA due to the fact juveniles are named.

My thoughts are with the victims. I hope that TLC will pay for meaningful (and professionally credentialed) therapy.

[Eternalbluepearl]

It could have been a Duggar girl who requested that it be destroyed. Jimbob and Michelle trying to get the story to go away...

[Escapefromfundiedom]

Re: docs being destroyed... :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead:

Since we've been learning today just how deep the corruption of these people runs...it wouldn't surprise me if JB uses one of the girls (the victims!!) to shut this down by way of "If your name gets out, no one will ever want to marry you."

fucked fucked fucked up world they live in. These poor kids.

[twinmama]

I know, this is so terrible all the way around. And I do worry about the girls' guilt if the show is cancelled. Not only is their family's "ministry" ruined, but also the primary source of income for their parents and younger siblings. Hell, that fallout would make me feel weird if I were the victim, and I don't have their unhealthy, woman-blaming upbringing.

Especially given that the girls old enough to have suffered this also remember what life was like with not enough money and a ton of children. Even if the youngest kids aren't suffering abuse like they were, they probably don't want them living the poor life like they did. That is if the Duggars haven't been smart about money and things go to crap once the TLC gravy train stops.

[anjulibai]

What would be the point of destroying the documents now?

They are on-line, so all of the most damaging information is out there, for all the world to see, until the Internet ceases to exist.

What's the point, besides making it look like more of a cover-up?

[sense and nonsense]

I don't know what to think right now. It is 3am where I live, and I've been lying in bed for the last hour feeling physically sick at the news. The thought of anyone going through this is horrifying. So many things said by this family in the past sound so different in light of this news.

[Firiel]

I've been lurking here for about 6 months and I've read extensively about the duggars in that time. Background about me: I work with trauma victims in my day job and have long suspected the duggar girls were victims of sexual abuse based on things Jim Bob has said and Gothard's history. My other unrelated hobby/pastime is researching political scandals, cover-ups, and conspiracies.

So I came here long after the Razing Ruth scandal but for a long time it has pinged my radar - it looks a lot like an orchestrated disinformation campaign. I told myself I'd let my conspiracy theory hobby bleed into my other "fandoms" but I couldn't shake myself of this and almost wrote a post about it a few days ago. I wish I had since it would probably carry even more weight now. But essentially it has the components of someone like a fixer (ala Olivia Pope from Scandal) trying to get ahead of a political or PR crisis. Got troublesome rumors that need to be swept under the rug? Sometimes the only way to hide rumors is to openly have someone present this information and then discredit the person. Then whenever the information is discussed again it is dismissed as "that crazy person started that rumor" and people move on.

I don't know what this tactic is called but its essentially a version of two truths and a lie. Tell some things that are exactly the facts and something that's an outrageous lie and everyone dismisses all three things as outrageous lies.

My thoughts aren't very organized right now since I'm so horrified (even if not surprised) but I guess I'm curious where to get more info about Razing Ruth and how she was discredited. Where exactly is she now? Its possible that she knew inside info or stumbled upon it and incorporated it or that it was entirely coincidence but it shocks me how accurate she was about her allegations. I'm also curious if FreeJinger archives all old threads and how best to search these? :doh:

I can't imagine any scenario where Razing Ruth and the Duggars teamed up in the way you describe.

It's not that the concept doesn't kind of make sense, but once you are familiar with the ways things shook out, it just doesn't make sense for the situation. Here is the Razing Ruth archive: viewforum.php?f=88

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

Fox News picked up the story:

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/20 ... ce-report/

Interesting to note the part where they discuss Arkansas' FOI Act. How could InTouch get a copy of the report in the way they stated they did when the Act forbids the disclosure of reports compiled on behalf of the Department of Human Services?

I made the mistake of reading the comments. Don't read the comments.

[weezie]

Lots of overtime over at TLC Legal department! My guess is that they will hedge their bets and concentrate on therapy and recovery of victims. No parents involved. They are complicit. Adult children only. and some sort of contribution to charities for victims. I fear that cancelation will just make JB and M circle the wagons even tighter, and who knows what will happen to those younger kids.

[vienna]

And if Oprah knew, wouldn't they have told something to TLC? The reason for not going to do the interview? Could TLC have not known?

And if someone already decided to write a letter to Oprah, why was this Person silent ever since?

[MalteseBaby]

I hope this true story stays in the MSM long enough for the general public to understand that the Duggars have been living a huge lie, that their daughters have been extremely hurt and have not received help for their hurt, that their son works for a " family resource" PAC and shouldn't be telling families anything about how to vote or that LGBT are wicked sinners, or that abortion is murder, etc.

IF nothing positive comes out of this,if no one in the family dynamic grows and heals and learns, then there's the largest tragedy.

The girls will be hurt all over again ( and are, judging from the court's decision to destroy the records), Josh and Anna will have their own issues, and then there's the " just born" generation.

Derek is right to want to protect Israel, and Ben is right to want to protect his child, too. Then there are Smuggar's 3 already- born and the daughter on the way. Are they at risk? We don't know, and I certainly can't speculate, but I think a lot of us care about those little Duggars too.

And IMO, Jim Bob and Michelle are child abusers in their own special " Duggar way". " Beat us with a rod", OMG!!!

[gustava]

- English is not my first language. Can someone help me out understanding what Josh really did? As far as I understood the Report, Cloth have always been on, right? I am sorry that I have to ask for this but although I consider my English pretty okay, I did not understand everything with all the blackened parts. By no way I want to defend or excuse what Josh has been doing, but I really don´t have a clear Picture of the Situation. Did Young Josh e.g. shortly touch the breast of his sleeping through their clothes? Or longer? I feel ashamed to ask myself the questions I ask myself in this regard, but I just can´t get a picture of what really happened.

Could it have been (inappropriate and strange enough) but more the couriosity of a dumb left alone Boy than an actuall sexual Thing (not that this would make a big difference for the Girls)?

I read the report and what I think it says is this: Josh touched 5 younger females, 4 of whom appear to be his sisters, in inappropriate places. He apparently removed items of clothing, put his hands up skirts, and touched one female when she was asleep on a couch.

[ljohnson2006]

If this was false, someone from camp Duggar would be denying it until the cows come home. Smuggar admitted to doing it. Can't take that back. Cancel the show.

[MisUndrstd]

I've been lurking here for about 6 months and I've read extensively about the duggars in that time. Background about me: I work with trauma victims in my day job and have long suspected the duggar girls were victims of sexual abuse based on things Jim Bob has said and Gothard's history. My other unrelated hobby/pastime is researching political scandals, cover-ups, and conspiracies.

So I came here long after the Razing Ruth scandal but for a long time it has pinged my radar - it looks a lot like an orchestrated disinformation campaign. I told myself I'd let my conspiracy theory hobby bleed into my other "fandoms" but I couldn't shake myself of this and almost wrote a post about it a few days ago. I wish I had since it would probably carry even more weight now. But essentially it has the components of someone like a fixer (ala Olivia Pope from Scandal) trying to get ahead of a political or PR crisis. Got troublesome rumors that need to be swept under the rug? Sometimes the only way to hide rumors is to openly have someone present this information and then discredit the person. Then whenever the information is discussed again it is dismissed as "that crazy person started that rumor" and people move on.

I don't know what this tactic is called but its essentially a version of two truths and a lie. Tell some things that are exactly the facts and something that's an outrageous lie and everyone dismisses all three things as outrageous lies.

My thoughts aren't very organized right now since I'm so horrified (even if not surprised) but I guess I'm curious where to get more info about Razing Ruth and how she was discredited. Where exactly is she now? Its possible that she knew inside info or stumbled upon it and incorporated it or that it was entirely coincidence but it shocks me how accurate she was about her allegations. I'm also curious if FreeJinger archives all old threads and how best to search these? :doh:

Sorry and this is just my opinion but this smells like someone from the media trying to get RazingRuth to do an exclusive interview or something. I'm sorry, but I feel that Free Jinger should protect the girls who are the obvious victims in this case and not direct someone who may be trying to gain information that will further destroy them.

[lilwriter85]

If TLC cans the show, the Duggars will be fine for awhile. Boob is smart about money and has probably socked away a lot of it and he has rental properties and other businesses. But in the long run, there will be changes in finances for the family without TLC, book royalties, speaking gigs. We will no longer see the Duggars traveling internationally. I also think their days of hanging out with politicians will lessen a bit. Some politicians will not to be seen or associated with the Duggars.

The Duggars kids will probably have to branch out on their own for education and career training options. I do think Boob owned businesses might hurt because of what is going on.

[happy atheist]

Hey mods, out of respect to the victims, can we maybe think about removing the "I AM the sin in the camp" post title? It seems kind of wrong to me, in light of the situation being true.

I did this several hours ago, actually.

[twinmama]

TLC don't have to end the show, if they handle it right, if they force the family to confront the issue and cut Josh out and if they show that the girls want the show to continue.

They could also dodge the issue by creating a series about one of the girls (Jill/Jessa) and showing the family through that lens. Even Jana or Jinger could take lead on a spin off. They get the family, without Josh (even without J&M if they do it right). J&M wouldn't object as it would mean the money keeps coming.

I don't want the show cancelled because I believe that its given those kids (especially the littles) more opportunities then they would have otherwise have had and reduced the physical abuse as well. Even Jana has benefited from the show through money and seeing people and possibly having contacts which she otherwise wouldn't. I want the TLC gravy train to continue for their sake.

Since TLC is a tv network and not a charity or therapist, they will wash their hands of the Duggars the second it looks like they will negatively affect their bottom line. They don't care about the people making them money, other than that they keep producing.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Predictions.

I have no doubt TLC will cancel the show. Which they don't want to do because all of the weddings and babies draws viewers in, viewers who love to see where the kids they watched grow up ended up in life. However, you just cannot continue to put Josh on the air. He can never be on the air again. And you can't just have the show and pretend he doesn't exist.

The Duggars will put out a statement saying they sought help at the time and cooperated with authorities and no charges were ever brought. They've all (insert Jesus stuff) and are fine and (more Jesus).

Josh will resign from FRC.

He and the Duggars will continue to have a Christian fanbase because forgiveness.

Ben might have to get a real job because his TV plan is over.

[isarhenne]

the duggars are powerfull enough to make the story go away and have nothing happening to them. josh has a network with high powers in d.c.. jb is very savy.

the show will probably go on as if nothing has happened, sadly.

they did not expose the gothard connection to the duggars when the sexual abuse by gothard was confirmed.

they will sweep the josh story under the rug like "he was a minor at the time" "that doesn't count" "it happened over 10 years ago, so let's move on"

tlc will not cancel the show

josh will even get a higher pay check at frc

the sisters will nod and smile as always

as cynical as it sounds: the duggars are too powerfull at this point to get cancelled, fired, accused publically in the media, ....

[sunshine]

How could they ever get honest, real permission from the girls to talk about this on air? They would be under pressure from their parents, their livelihood hanging in the balance, to just agree regardless of how they feel.

I don't know the answer to that, but if Bill Clinton can have an affair while in Office, lie about it, later admit it true and still remain in Office, then anything is possible.

[ClaraOswin]

There are really no upsides to any of this obviously, but I am glad the girls have each other. None of them is alone and they were each victims and survivors.

I agree. I am hoping they are together today for just that reason. To support each other during all of this. Maybe the photo was more for "look, we're okay" and not for "look, nothing happened."