John Shrader: Killing Snakes & Grifting Appliances for Jesus

[Palimpsest]

John got told that he is going to go to hell because he isn't the right kind of Christian. :lol: He is getting a little taste of his own medicine and it sure doesn't taste good.

I suspect it would take a lot more than an email to get his sending church to drop him. I bet there was proof and John is leaving that out.

Exactly. John's whole modus operandi is "converting" other Christians by telling them they are wrong and are going to hell. He's getting a taste of what he dishes out every day. Look what he told Arcade in July 2013.

As we discussed the many false teachers and false churches in Burundi, Arcade asked, "What about those in my family and those in these false "churches"? What about those who have already died believing error?" With a broken heart we asked him to turn to and read Revelation 20:15. It was a sobering moment. It was heartwrenching to watch the awareness that came over him at that moment.

I have no sympathy for John.

I suspect that the email was sent to these supporting churches by the sending church pastor himself: Russell Tyree. The sending church needed to explain why they dumped John.

[Palimpsest]

These churches really created the monster that is John Shrader. If the churches had cared more and had researched more John would still be stuck in America trying to get his relatives to pay off his debts because he won't keep a job. Every single church that gave him money needs to do some deep soul searching about their missions outreached.

But will they?

[formergothardite]

But will they?

Probably not.

[Howl]

And really how awful of that person to tell John he is going to hell...

Well, yes, it is awful to say that to ANYONE. John convinced one convert (an orphan) that his dead family members were all burning in hell because they did not believe in the exact Christian doctrine that John espouses (which is the subject of debate here; John may not know what he actually believes). If that isn't the cruelest form of psychological torture, I don't know what is.

Surely if this person is a Christian then all that matters to get to heaven is to believe in Jesus?

Alas, if there were true, the world would be a better place.

The main thing is, Baptists of every stripe (and John claims to be Biblical Historic Baptist) are famous for heating up to the boiling point and creating schisms over doctrinal disputes.

I was able to find only one reference to Biblical Historic Baptist. Click here to read about it. Highly recommended as a great read if you have insomnia and really, really need to get some sleep.

Ah, 'tis the season of precious emails!

If this email was indeed sent out by Rea, he could be even worse than John. Whoever did it, it is definitely a**hole behavior. All these fundamentalist soul winners are scary -- they seem to believe that when immortal souls are at stake, lock and load, baby, and open fire on your own. Honestly, we should all be grateful that John is totally ineffectual as a missionary; it's a blessing in disguise to the people of Zambia his potential victims.

Ironic, isn't it, that John wanted to bring Pure and True Christianity to Zambia, and the whole thing is imploding over what the Pure and True doctrine really is?

I admit to feeling a delicious touch of schadenfreude schraderfreude.

[salex]

Well, always dramatic, John posted in his Facebook that

"It is finished"

Then explains hes had more than one missionary tell him to stop being a baby and bitching so much on the internet, to just accept it and stop dragging the debate/debacle out in public, it makes him look bad.

So, "it is finished" is his heading for a whole big post about how he is going to stop talking about this whole thing, and how abused and used and lied about he was and how he's suffered, and he'll not bring it up again, but he does need to phone a friend to talk , but really, like Christ on the cross, it is finished. Really. He's done wiht the discussion.

Really.

[Mitz_]

MMM's source was right on about what the dealy-o was with John and the church.

[Coconut Flan]

Possibly shut up or even daddy's church won't fund him any more.

[Palimpsest]

Well, always dramatic, John posted in his Facebook that

"It is finished"

Then explains hes had more than one missionary tell him to stop being a baby and bitching so much on the internet, to just accept it and stop dragging the debate/debacle out in public, it makes him look bad.

So, "it is finished" is his heading for a whole big post about how he is going to stop talking about this whole thing, and how abused and used and lied about he was and how he's suffered, and he'll not bring it up again, but he does need to phone a friend to talk , but really, like Christ on the cross, it is finished. Really. He's done wiht the discussion.

Really.

Well, shucks. For a moment there I hoped by "It is finished" he meant his whole accursed mission was over.

Reading on, he just meant he'd stop whining. :roll:

[StacyW]

Is it possible the sending church manufactured this doctrinal difference just to get rid of him, once they realized that he was all showmanship and no performance?

[Palimpsest]

I admit to feeling a delicious touch of schadenfreude schraderfreude.

:lol: Quoth Mr P. "Now why didn't we think of that?" :lol:

[JeanieCat]

When people like the Shraders go on deputation do they just show up at these churches? Does the congregation take pity on them and end up sponsoring them? How pushy was John? Was it easier just to sponsor him and send him on his way?

[slickcat79]

When people like the Shraders go on deputation do they just show up at these churches? Does the congregation take pity on them and end up sponsoring them? How pushy was John? Was it easier just to sponsor him and send him on his way?

I suspect John was quite pushy, but I don't think the churches would sponsor him out of pity. They might give him a meal or some groceries, maybe put the family up for a night or two if they felt bad for them (a couple of churches did do this), but there are plenty of excuses they could come up with to put him off about sponsorship. They need to pray about it, they need to have a vote about it or talk to the congregation, etc. Then they could reach out to him about taking him on for support after he left...or not.

I'd like to think the churches came to their senses about John due to his spendthrift ways and the problems he's creating for his family-especially the children-but I doubt it. They knew all along that he had a large family, and he was pretty clear with them about his "needs": the plane, the flying lessons, a vehicle, the printer/copier, a container to ship their belongings, and so on. Unless he's lying about some of the things that are currently happening (which is always a possibility), I'm becoming more convinced that this doctrinal dispute is really the biggest problem. But churches having absolute shit for priorities is hardly unique to John :roll:

[klavierspieler]

When people like the Shraders go on deputation do they just show up at these churches? Does the congregation take pity on them and end up sponsoring them? How pushy was John? Was it easier just to sponsor him and send him on his way?

IME, the majority of the time, missionaries on deputation will call around to as many churches as possible and ask to set up a date to come speak to the church about their mission. For being independent, most IFB churches are still very networked together and it would be easy enough to get a starter list of churches and phone numbers from your sending church's pastor and add to it as you go. Sending pastors will also sometimes make calls on behalf of the missionaries and try to help get them scheduled for missions' conferences and the like, and every once in a while the missionary might get a call from a church that has heard about them with an offer to come present their project. We occasionally had missionaries drop in unannounced/uninvited just because they were passing through the area and wanted a place to go to church, but no missionary I knew would expect to be allowed to speak in a case like that. I mean, they *might* be asked to say just a few words about themselves and their mission out of courtesy if the pastor wanted to, but not show the video/give the entire pitch. And even that wouldn't be a guarantee.

Also IME, no, the congregations won't just sponsor them out of pity or just to get rid of them. Again, just my experience, but as long as the doctrine seemed straight (something John obviously fudged on) most churches were happy to take them on AS LONG AS they had the funds. That was usually the deciding factor. The church I grew up in took on probably 75% of the new missionaries that came through each year, but as far as I could tell that was a really high number. The missionaries that we sent from our church usually reported ~50% of the churches they visited taking them on. Hence why deputation is usually a minimum of a 2-3 year process. It takes a long time to drum up enough support at that rate, even if you're in a new church every Sunday.

Wasn't John originally going to be partnered with I AM Ministries when he started deputation? I thought he was, but I can't remember back that far and don't want to go check. But if so, that, more than a pushy sales pitch, would most likely be why churches would be falling all over themselves to support him. I have no doubt John is a slick salesman too, but Bobby Bonner's name/ministry is pure gold in the fundie world. It would be like someone trying to get involved in Democratic politics being able to throw around the Clinton or Obama name.

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

Exactly. John's whole modus operandi is "converting" other Christians by telling them they are wrong and are going to hell. He's getting a taste of what he dishes out every day. Look what he told Arcade in July 2013.

I have no sympathy for John.

I suspect that the email was sent to these supporting churches by the sending church pastor himself: Russell Tyree. The sending church needed to explain why they dumped John.

I had forgotten about Arcade being told that.

My sympathy for john seems to have been misplaced.

Also agree must be more than just an email they must have had some proof or the churches surely wouldn't have dropped him on heresay?

[Mitz_]

From John's father's FB:

"Rick-Jodi Shrader

3 hrs ·

Attention to those local friends of Missionary John Shrader. Tri-County Baptist is flying him in to preach Feb. 15th. It is a special Sending Service. Join us if you can."

John is coming all the way back to talk at a super speshul service. I wonder if the whole family is coming with him? Would he leave them in Zambia?

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

From John's father's FB:

"Rick-Jodi Shrader

3 hrs ·

Attention to those local friends of Missionary John Shrader. Tri-County Baptist is flying him in to preach Feb. 15th. It is a special Sending Service. Join us if you can."

John is coming all the way back to talk at a super speshul service. I wonder if the whole family is coming with him? Would he leave them in Zambia?

My suspicion that he's coming back by himself to talk to churches who dropped him to plead his case as he doesn't have enough support ($$) to stay in Zambia for much longer. And/or drum up new support from gullible churches.

[whoviana]

When people like the Shraders go on deputation do they just show up at these churches? Does the congregation take pity on them and end up sponsoring them?

Yes.

[already hungover]

At the end of the previous thread, someone asked about the missionaries who posted photos of the body of their young son who died while they were in Africa. I remembered this as well, because it's one of the more appalling things I've read here, and so I did some digging. The Cherry family were missionaries in Benin. Their son, Christopher, died of malaria in August 2011. He was 10.

Discussion here.

The memorial Facebook page is public and available here. Warning, the coffin photos are still up.

[formergothardite]

From John's father's FB:

"Rick-Jodi Shrader

3 hrs ·

Attention to those local friends of Missionary John Shrader. Tri-County Baptist is flying him in to preach Feb. 15th. It is a special Sending Service. Join us if you can."

John is coming all the way back to talk at a super speshul service. I wonder if the whole family is coming with him? Would he leave them in Zambia?

So they are spending the money to fly him all the way here just so they can have a special service saying that they are his sending church? :shifty-kitty: That is not the real reason, that is the reason they made up to help cover up why he is really here. I wonder if people in the church are starting to question the wisdom of sending John so Daddy is flying him back in hopes that John can soothe the fears of church members.

[apple1]

Yes.

Actually - klavierspieler is right (in my experience). Churches don't agree to support just every missionary that presents. I would put the estimate (overall once again, in my experience) at 1/3. And as I have stated before, none of the churches I have any past experience with would even consider a family with so many kids. At least a couple of the pastors I knew would have quietly taken the dad aside and talked about enough is enough.

Really.

[formergothardite]

IME churches would not have taken him on out of pity either. They might have taken up a love offering but they would never have agreed to monthly support just because they pitied the children. These churches really bought into John's vision for the mission field.

[Trynn]

Who the heck tells someone that their dead parents are being tortured in hell right now, at this moment, and will be for all eternity? That is FUCKED UP.

I feel no sympathy at all for the asswhipe who does THAT.

[Palimpsest]

Wasn't John originally going to be partnered with I AM Ministries when he started deputation? I thought he was, but I can't remember back that far and don't want to go check. But if so, that, more than a pushy sales pitch, would most likely be why churches would be falling all over themselves to support him. I have no doubt John is a slick salesman too, but Bobby Bonner's name/ministry is pure gold in the fundie world. It would be like someone trying to get involved in Democratic politics being able to throw around the Clinton or Obama name.

The I AM connection was always left - possibly deliberately - rather vague by Shrader and Rea. I assumed the connection because Shrader and Rea were mentioned by name in one of the old I AM news letters as possible future replacements. Kafulafuta is where they did their survey trips and footage of the I AM mission buildings appears in both their deputation videos. I think Bobby Bonner himself is shown in one, or perhaps both, videos and also John Sarra. Funding churches would recognize them and probably I AM was mentioned in church presentations.

I always found it strange that I could never find evidence of John or David publically announcing in their outreach materials a link with I AM. It puzzled me because I would have thought a connection with I AM's 25+ years in Zambia would have lent Team Zambia a lot of credibility. Instead they blathered on about building on the work done by other anonymous missionaries and about their church planting and printing ministry. John, in particular, was very big on Going Where No White Missionary Has Gone Before to reach the heathens -- thus the all important plane.

John announced that God was sending him to Kafue instead of to Kafulafuta very abruptly. I suspected a big split with I AM then. Since arriving in Kafue AFAIK he hasn't mentioned IAM's church plant there with the Zambian pastor. I think you mentioned that in another thread. These days he rather presents himself as the one and only true missionary in Zambia. And Beyond.

ETA: clarification

[formergothardite]

In the original Team Zambia video Bobby Bonner is shown and John does not state, but very heavily implies, that he is going to work with him. This seems to be the video he showed churches while on deputation. I think that originally John and David went to visit I AM Ministries and that is where all the footage comes from, but I AM didn't want either of them. I would think that after years on the mission field they could see right through John Shrader.

[Palimpsest]

At the end of the previous thread, someone asked about the missionaries who posted photos of the body of their young son who died while they were in Africa. I remembered this as well, because it's one of the more appalling things I've read here, and so I did some digging. The Cherry family were missionaries in Benin. Their son, Christopher, died of malaria in August 2011. He was 10.

Discussion here.

The memorial Facebook page is public and available here. Warning, the coffin photos are still up.

Thanks for tracking that down. I think. The trigger warning is necessary.

I'm going to take a couple of possibly unpopular stances here. I don't consider people who take their children with them to developing countries (and malarial zones) are, by definition, horrible and neglectful parents. That is, IF they take sensible steps (immunizations and mosquito precautions) to keep their children as safe as possible. Sadly, people do get sick and die. People have still births, and children die from diseases, some preventable and some not, and even snake bites, in developed countries too.

I'm putting this next bit under a spoiler tag because I'm going to discuss specific child deaths and death rituals. Open at your own risk.

Yes, terrible things do happen to children in Africa, as with the Cherrys' son, the Sweerins (still birth), and the Murphys. I don't remember the cause of death for Christiana Murphy and they may never have disclosed it. She just collapsed playing in the yard and they couldn't resuscitate her. Her mother is a physician so I would presume Christiana had good health care.

As far as the photos of the boy in the coffin. Well, people grieve differently and death rituals are very culturally specific. It is important to understand that. I do find those pictures upsetting. However, in my specific cultural background coffins are always closed and funerals are short and sweet. Cremation, before or after the funeral, is the preferred method of disposing of remains.

I found embalming corpses and having them on display at American (mostly Irish Catholic) wakes pretty damn gross when I first came to the US. I don't need to see a corpse with make-up on (they never look in the least like the person did in life to me) to reach "closure." To be honest, I still find embalming gross but I've learned not to gag at wakes. I appreciate and respect that this is just another way of grieving/healing. Apparently posting pictures of corpses on Face Book is the new normal for some. I'm not going to express outrage at this practice.