John Shrader: Killing Snakes & Grifting Appliances for Jesus

[Palimpsest]

Did he give a reason why he was dropped (besides satan).

John's spin paraphrased was "sending church (Valley Baptist) couldn't afford to send both Shrader and Rea families so Daddy's church took over. BTW, he believes in Lordship Salvation and partnering with Rea in Team Zambia didn't work out." And Satan.

But, while shoveling the latest foot of snow and pondering the mystery of Lordship Salvation a light bulb went of in my head. I put this theory on the Lordship Salvation thread too so this is a C & P from there. "Source" on the last thread explained it and how repentance fits in.

I just realized that I keep getting John Shrader backwards. Probably because I see no evidence of "work" when it comes to John.

After all that yapping about By Grace Alone John has finally come clean that he is a proud supporter of the heresy of Lordship Salvation. The supporting churches believe that they were lied to by him so dumped him. I thought he was trying to win them back with the Lordship Salvation. Not so.

"Source" explained the repentance bit for us here (my bolding):

Lordship Salvation is tricky. I think all Christians believe in repentance. John believes you can't just believe in Christ's sacrificial death but that you have to be "ready" to receive Christ by repenting from all your sin. People like me believe this takes away from God's free gift. If it isn't a free gift than it is a work and that is a big deal! Once he got to Zambia and started posting, certain language start to stand out. John says he doesn't believe but his own words betray him. I think a lot of churches are smarter now

By Grace Alone = repentance nice but not required, free gift.

Lordship Salvation = super special repentance.

Super special repentance = "work."

So do "Fruits of Labor" and "Good Works" have a place in Lordship Salvation? I still think so looking at other sources.

Ye gods and little fishes! And a belated Thank You to Source.

[Jana814]

John does of a special gift of getting Christians to give him whatever he wants. Not many people could get as much stuff as he did.

Agree!

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

Yes and thanks to the source I can see why churches are upset. It's a very huge theological difference and he clearly lied to them.

Wonder how much support he lost?

Don't quite understand what his dad is trying to say...Palimpsest?

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

He just posted about losing support for preaching an old fashioned repentance of turning to the Lord Jesus Christ from sin and submitting to His righteousness.

[formergothardite]

So let me see if I have this tangled web of nit-picking on theology correct.

John goes to churches and tells them he does not believe in Lordship salvation.

They give him money.

He gets to Zambia and starts posting things that makes it seem like he believes in Lordship salvation.

Churches that supported him get upset and pull their support.

John claims Satan is attacking him and that he does not believe in Lordship salvation.

Churches do not believe him because he FB posts say otherwise.

Is this right?

[apple1]

I think that Shrader just makes things up as he goes along and it suits his current wishes.

For example - A "Biblical Historic Baptist" (or whatever exact sequence of words he used to say that he is not an Independent Fundamental Baptist).

I'm not young and I spent a very large portion of my life in independent Baptist churches - as most called them. Few in those churches called them "IFB". Keeping in mind that IFB is not an overarching denomination, and that while there are various - I will use the word "fellowships" because that is the word that a lot of independent Baptists use - fellowships being groups of churches that associate with each other in some limited ways, and probably defend each other to outsiders - no one has authority over each individual church and there is not a denominational authority that does anything about anything. That is the official definition of "independent". Darnit, my own father, who always clearly called himself "independent Baptist" has been known to say that some independent Baptists are so independent that they can't get along with anyone but themselves.

So - if John self-identifies as "Baptist" and is not a part of a denomination of Baptists, like, for example, American Baptists - he is an independent Baptist, by definition. He can put the spin "Biblical Historic Baptist" on it if he wants; it means nothing. Either way, he is not accepting the authority of any other group of Baptists, except theoretically, his "sending" church.

"Biblical Historic Baptist" ---- what a bunch of hooey - just excuse making and spin. I never heard the like (and I thought I had mostly heard it all).

Oh well - sorry for the long-windedness. Maybe it will shed a little bit of light.

ETA - I suspect he just got caught at making it up as he goes along.

[Palimpsest]

The info I found mentioned donating through PayPal and Hazardous journeys . The dates were around July/august 2013.

There were photos of men in a land rover in Livingston and also rafting on the Zambezi .

I found it when pootling through the wide stance threads featuring DP

In starring role. I can't remember any names mentioned, just Team Zambia.

Was that were John got the idea of being a "missionary" from I wonder? :?

Any way you can find that thread again and link? FJ is hard to search, I know.

The Hazardous Journey to Zambia was in July/August 2013 after Shrader and Rea got back from Burundi. They were both on Deputation then because they got the "Call to Zambia" back in 2009/10. So, their "Call" predates DPIAT's Great Commission to send manly men to all continents of the world. He announced that in January 2013, IIRC.

My thoughts when I saw the TeamZambia link on the HJS Zambia FB were:

1. The HJS lot know Shrader/Rea and are using Teamzambia's 501©(3) status to escape taxes? Unlikely because HJS/VFM also had non-profit status.

2. TeamZambia were funding HJS Zambia? Not bloody likely. Would John give money away? Perish the thought.

3. TeamZambia were glomming on to HJS Zambia to take advantage of their fame and grift extra cash? Most likely option, but would require cooperation from HJS Zambia and misleads the HJS donors. They would be funding Shrader and Rea not the manly men miss-cation.

It is an odd connection because of doctrinal differences (IFB versus Calvinist) although I suppose HJS/VFM was, technically, interdenominational.

We have always suspected a lot of creative accounting with both Shrader and Vision Forum so this looks like proof of real financial skullduggery, IYKWIM.

[Palimpsest]

So let me see if I have this tangled web of nit-picking on theology correct.

John goes to churches and tells them he does not believe in Lordship salvation.

They give him money.

He gets to Zambia and starts posting things that makes it seem like he believes in Lordship salvation.

Churches that supported him get upset and pull their support.

John claims Satan is attacking him and that he does not believe in Lordship salvation.

Churches do not believe him because he FB posts say otherwise.

Is this right?

Not quite:

In his last newsletter John said he DOES believe in Lordship Salvation.

It was a direct "Fuck You" to the By Grace Alone churches who had withdrawn their support after sussing out his heretical stance on repentance.

Whoops. Got that wrong. Yes, you are right.

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

^really? No wonder people are confused as he's saying in some comments he preaches grace alone.

[Palimpsest]

Yes and thanks to the source I can see why churches are upset. It's a very huge theological difference and he clearly lied to them.

Wonder how much support he lost?

Don't quite understand what his dad is trying to say...Palimpsest?

Yes, many thanks to Source. He explained it very clearly. I feel stupid for being so slow to catch on. It's just that John + work doesn't compute!

My opinion: Dad is covering John ass for the 99th time. Satan is working to accuse John of veering in the Lordship Salvation direction.

He just posted about losing support for preaching an old fashioned repentance of turning to the Lord Jesus Christ from sin and submitting to His righteousness.

My opinion, John "spinning" again. I don't think it will work this time. Repentance (old fashioned or not) and the need for it is obviously a huge doctrinal difference even though we think it is nit-picky. He's said or done something to annoy the Saved by Grace churches. On FB or in emails? They probably have some kind of proof.

I think John is classic NPD. Or even a sociopath. Sociopaths are also narcissistic. He will tailor whatever he says (doctrine-wise) to his audience - and will actually believe in what he is saying in that moment - so he will be very convincing.

Just before John threw his last hysterical fit on FB (the one before he went private) he posted a weeping diatribe about being betrayed and slandered. At the time I was fairly sure it wasn't because FJ finally got his goat. It was some challenge very close and personal to him. Possibly David Rea called him out on repentance? That post is gone now, and I don't think any of us took a screen shot before he wiped it. It might hold some clues.

It seems the By Grace Alone believers were totally taken in by John. I feel very sorry for them for that but they also need to take some responsibility for setting John, the parasite, loose in Zambia.

It doesn't change my questions for MMM's Source: Are they going to support other church-planters? Are they offended by John's gross cultural insensitivity and endless grifting. Are they questioning things other than doctrinal differences about repentance in supporting church-planting missionaries?

[Palimpsest]

^really? No wonder people are confused as he's saying in some comments he preaches grace alone.

No. Not really. I went back and double-checked the newsletter. I misread it the first time because he says he is not Lordship Salvation. Ooops! :embarrassed:

[formergothardite]

John is insane and will never, ever take responsibility for anything that goes wrong. He will always find someone to blame and if he can't find a person he will just go with Satan. You can blame pretty much anything on Satan and it isn't like he can even defend himself.

I don't really think John went private because of FJ since he seems to friend whoever sends him a request. I think it had to be someone who knew him and finally saw him for what he was. He wanted to shut that person out, but I think he also knew that churches aren't likely to listen to us(they should because we are good at spotting red flags) so he doesn't really care if we read and discuss him. He probably uses it to get persecution points.

Am I making it up that John wasn't thrilled that ShraderFriend started posting here?

[Johanna25]

I found a Team Zambia 2013 page on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/HazardousJourn ... a/timeline

It was originally associated with Hazardous Journeys, but has an announcement that since the end of the HJS it was going on on its own. It doesn't look to be associated with Shrader/Rea though, just a pair of two fathers and two sons.

[Johanna25]

It may be that someone saw an appeal for contributions to that other Team Zambia on the Hazardous Journeys site and connected that to the Shrader/Rea Team Zambia.

I found that site when googling for "Hazardous Journeys." It's off-topic, but while chasing down those rabbit-holes, I got to thinking about their avowed purpose to raise their sons to be bright, risk-taking, manly leaders. Of course their authoritarian mind set is no way to raise the creative, out-of-the-box thinking engineers and problem solvers that we need today, but even if they were, they are crippling their children with lousy educations. I started to imagine what would happen if they did produce creative thinkers and thought, with their 19th century science they'd probably give us a Victorian, steampunk world.

[Jana814]

John is insane and will never, ever take responsibility for anything that goes wrong. He will always find someone to blame and if he can't find a person he will just go with Satan. You can blame pretty much anything on Satan and it isn't like he can even defend himself.

Agree!!

[Palimpsest]

I found a Team Zambia 2013 page on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/HazardousJourn ... a/timeline

It was originally associated with Hazardous Journeys, but has an announcement that since the end of the HJS it was going on on its own. It doesn't look to be associated with Shrader/Rea though, just a pair of two fathers and two sons.

Wow. Thank you for finding that!

No. The strange connection is still there. I'm really relieved that I was not hallucinating back in 2013.

Go to the timeline on the FB page you found and scroll down to August 23.

"Even though we have launched our trip, donations are still welcome as we are having to deal with many unexpected expenses. Go to teamzambia.com"

Click on the TeamZambia link and it still goes to the Rea (and formerly Shrader) page.

Here is where I first noticed it. viewtopic.php?f=132&t=18815&start=180

It really is incredibly strange because those people are not Shrader and Rea.

[Palimpsest]

John is insane and will never, ever take responsibility for anything that goes wrong. He will always find someone to blame and if he can't find a person he will just go with Satan. You can blame pretty much anything on Satan and it isn't like he can even defend himself.

I don't really think John went private because of FJ since he seems to friend whoever sends him a request. I think it had to be someone who knew him and finally saw him for what he was. He wanted to shut that person out, but I think he also knew that churches aren't likely to listen to us(they should because we are good at spotting red flags) so he doesn't really care if we read and discuss him. He probably uses it to get persecution points.

Am I making it up that John wasn't thrilled that ShraderFriend started posting here?

Agreed. Especially on FJ being good at spotting red flags. Our combined experience and insight is pretty impressive, although we say so ourselves. :)

Regarding persecution points, is there any hope that funding churches can learn from this?

I wish Milly-Molly-Mandy's source would respond to my questions. I really want to think that these churches will take a harder look at "missionaries" before funding them. I'm sure the donors are all distressed about the very thought that they funded "false doctrine" in Zambia.

I wish I thought they cared that their donations also sent Parasite John to prey on Zambians in other ways. Let alone sent Esther and (8.5 now 9) kids to Zambia along with the dolt. Their solution: stop funding. That leaves Esther and kids stranded in Zambia. Will the former funding churches crack open their wallets to bring the family home if there is an emergency? Enquiring minds want to know.

Sadly, I missed Shraderfriend's brief tenure here. I wonder whether he will ever come back.

[formergothardite]

These churches really created the monster that is John Shrader. If the churches had cared more and had researched more John would still be stuck in America trying to get his relatives to pay off his debts because he won't keep a job. Every single church that gave him money needs to do some deep soul searching about their missions outreached.

[Gobsmacked]

Back from various rabbit holes. Others have beaten me too it!

I re found the thread with the two fathers and sons.( hazerdous journey's)

I think but all seems to lead to shrader and Rea families.

I cannot find the thread with the PayPal payment request.

Why, if the two duos were hazerdous journey's, were they requesting funds?

Surely they didn't expect their church to pay for what was essentially a lad and dad holiday??

Is it a coincidence that team zambia was a DP jaunt then Shrader and Rea families decided to name their escapades in Africa team zambia also?

Or is there a link?

Confused. :?

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

Well John just posted that he has been accused of preaching works salvation and an email accusing him of this was sent to all the churches that support him.

That a former friend who he has prayed with (for some reason I think Mr Rea) has told him he has s going to hell and leading others to hell. Wow, that is harsh.

If John keeps telling people he doesn't believe works based salvation & a tract he created does not claim it, why do so many churches not believe him? What are we missing that they can so clearly see?

Maybe the email they where sent had more proof that John has deleted?

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

And really how awful of that person to tell John he is going to hell. Surely if this person is a Christian then all that matters to get to heaven is to believe in Jesus?

I don't understand these people and I actually feel sorry for John about this email.

[Mitz_]

And really how awful of that person to tell John he is going to hell. Surely if this person is a Christian then all that matters to get to heaven is to believe in Jesus?

I don't understand these people and I actually feel sorry for John about this email.

John probably swings both ways on that, depending on the beliefs of the potential donor he is working on...but that's hilarious that someone is telling him he is going to Hell and dragging other people with him. I can't feel sorry for any of them because they ALL think I'm going to hell. This is turning into a big old mud-slinging bitch fight with John right in the middle! Praise The Lord and pass the ammunition!

[SPHASH]

And really how awful of that person to tell John he is going to hell. Surely if this person is a Christian then all that matters to get to heaven is to believe in Jesus?

I don't understand these people and I actually feel sorry for John about this email.

I don't. John is getting what he deserves.

[Gobsmacked]

The churches must surely be wondering if backing such a large family as Johns was a wise decision. The costs must be astronomical.

They must have realised by now that a lot of the money donated has been Mis-spent. The plane and the troopie being the most glaring examples. Johns new gamekeeper/safari guide clothes will not have been cheap either.

It would be cheaper to pull the plug and pay to bring the family home.

Or leave john on his own, perhaps with a trainee pastor from one of the churches still giving funds.

How large is Johns fathers church? The congregation may be large enough to afford the costs now but even they may get fed up as being used as a

"Bank of john".

[formergothardite]

John got told that he is going to go to hell because he isn't the right kind of Christian. :lol: He is getting a little taste of his own medicine and it sure doesn't taste good.

I suspect it would take a lot more than an email to get his sending church to drop him. I bet there was proof and John is leaving that out.